I just bought a 1992 V6 firebird manual transmission. I want to make it fast so I can compete with my co-workers. What do I gotta do first. I dont make much money so I need cheap ways of doing things. The fastest car in the lot is a Monte Carlo Grand National. What do I gotta do to beat him? I'm new to this but I'm going to try to upload a picture. The body and paint are a little bad but I'm going to try to restore her. Please help me. I forgot to ask, how do I get my headlights to work? I'll ;pst more pics later.

First, start learning cars. Monte Carlo Grand National?

You have a 3.1? The only way you'll ever compete with a GN, is with the turbo kit. No way I can see you competing, N/A (naturally aspirated)

In the meantime, do TomPs tuneup, though!

I know it's going to take some major tuning to run with the "Gnat" everyone calls it the beast. I have a super advantage when it comes to weight and aerodynamics. I'm sure I can come up with something to compete.

I found tomp's tuneup. I'm going to try to get on that asap.

What about my headlights? Isnt that slowing me down?

Not enough to worry about -

Unless you plan on racing from 200+ up

He's going to have a huge advantage on you. He's got a turbocharged 3.8L V6. You'll need AT LEAST a turbo, or a heavy shot of nitrous.

Expect to need at least 200hp more than what you have now, and the ability to hook up (traction)

How do I find out what size engine I have? I know it's a v6. I need to find out about my tranny and rear end.

The guy wont show anyone under the hood. I heard it's basically stock though. He's acts like a punk all the time. I'll keep y;all updated.

Its a 3.1 V6,189 Cubic Inch

TH-700-R4 Transmission with 2.73 Gears.


Doward is right...The only way you will get him is with a Turbo is a HUGE shot of nitrous....

no, if he hole shots him, and doesn't allow the gnat to pass, then you've won. Maybe even challange him to a race. arrive about 90~120 mins early & let your car cool off. WHen he arrives his car will be hot. Take advantage of this to get in front of him. ANd a shot of juice big enough to kill him will most probably launch some rods, or make you the proud owner of super dished pistons.

What kind of a budget are you on modifying this car?

actually I think the gears in his rear are 3.42s. I don't think there was any v6 f-bodies that came with the 2.73s, and I can only imagine why (at least they put some thought into that during production lol). Check out the Tech Data if you want to see any specs for any year.

He's got a 3.1L motor, with 3.23 rear gears, if it is all still stock.

I apologize!! He's got a 3.1, T5 - that means 3.42 rear gears!!

That's good, that's the best to start with.

The problem is... he's a mid/low 14 second car, stock. You are a mid/high 16 second car, stock.

He's got you beat.

My budget is slim right now.

So let me get this right. I have a 3.1 V6, 189 Cubic Inch
TH-700-R4 Transmission with 3.42 Gears.

How much horse power would I get by gutting the catalitic converter? Enough to cut 1/2 a second on the Gnat?

I'm scared of nitrous. I dont want to buy a new engine.

What about the throttle body bypass? How much horses is that? Any other free mods?

I'm not kidding, this guy is so popular with the girls. They love his car. I want some girls too. I cant believe they like the ugly car. I'm on a mission 'yo!

A: The 700R4 is the auto. You've got a manual, meaning a Borg Warner T5.

B: Gutting a cat won't net you much of anything if the cat is in good condition... a tenth at most.

C: The throttle body heater bypass will net you at most 1-2hp when your engine is hot but hasn't been running for more than 20-30 minutes. The manifold and throttle body will heat soak over time regardless.

D: You really don't understand how much catching up you have to do to beat a GN. To give you a rough idea, there's currently no V6 thirdgen on these boards that have posted timeslips that would take down an 86/87 GN (that I've seen.. please correct me if I'm wrong). You have little to no real weight advantage, a serious traction disadvantage, a displacement disadvantage, an aftermarket parts availability disadvantage... to put it bluntly, this isn't going to be cakewalk. Taking on a car with a larger engine, which is turbocharged, while attempting to avoid power adders (nitrous oxide, turbochargers, superchargers) is pretty unlikely. And remember, if you *do* beat your friend, he's got a host of aftermarket upgrade parts readily available to just bolt in to drop his car into anywhere between 13 second and 10 second territory.... and still be streetable.....

E: I love his car too... and I haven't even seen a picture of it yet.

To give you a rough idea, there's currently no V6 thirdgen on these boards that have posted timeslips that would take down an 86/87 GN (that I've seen.. please correct me if I'm wrong).

'89 TTA, from time-to-time someone visits and posts their times.

RBob.

Girls like his car is because its "fast"?

My friend,if you want to beat a grand national you should've got a V8....V6 free mods and bolt ons are basically useless...Except Turbos.Supers,Nitrous......

Just give it a MAJOR SUPER Tune-up and paint it or whatever....chicks will dig it

P.S I do like the car very much...just wash it,paint and wax.

Get some more pics up..How many miles?

i have a feeling he gets girls because hes a cocky (confident+funny) person and has a shiny car.

chicks dug my car when it was shiny, and in really good clean detail. it stood out like a sore thumb among all the mazdas minivans and civics in the parking lot. because it was unique and had character. even its brown colour. my roomates would tell me all the time that people walking by would stare and girls would say i wonder who drives that, and would want to meet me.

most girls dont know anything about cars, and think that stock honda civics with wings are fast.

allthough scaring the hell out of someone with torque is fun... you can still blow doughnuts and do burnouts.

now that my car is 1/2 primer, sounds like hell, and shakes when it hits highway speeds... its not so attractive.

now my 86 towncar.....


what i mean is, a girl that takes time to make herself pretty and surrounds herself with pretty things.. even if you are brad pitt, she's gonna think your car is ghetto.

id spend time on making your car #1 be reliable, #2 look good.
if you have a reliable car you can get to a job on time and for a long time to make $ to buy another car, or modify the heck out of yours. its going to take serious $ to get a faster car. i would focus on SKILLS that if you have to do somthing it wont cost you labour. and heck learning is free.

now with the skills and a small amount of dollars im sure you could build a car with junkyard parts and some effort on your part, that is faster than the Gnat.

Smartalec.

Okay, EXCLUDING one of 1555 TTAs which have a GN powerplant anyway....

Dang. I was hoping I'd be able to beat him with a firebird. The reason I bought a V6 is because I'm not rich. I'm just a regular dude with a regular j-o-b. My parents have horrible credit and cant help me get a fast car like a Gnat or Mustang so I have to do it the ghetto way. Start small and build up over time.

It sucks to know that my car will never be fast. I'm sure I'll beat hondas and stuff but I want to play with the big boys. At least beat a Mustang GT.

I'll post more pics tomorrow when it's daylight. My camera phone cant pics at night.

The truth is....3.1 V6's only make like 100 hp at the wheels...maybe even less....A stock honda could possibly even give you a challenge...The only real advantage you have is the manual tranny and a ok amount of torque.Other than that, a stock or lightly modified 3.1's arent worth competing with anything let alone a 5.0 mustang.

its not like you dont have time to save and get a faster car to beat him. you and most of us are still young. my problem is im never happy with what i have and i want everything right now!

probably the same reason i cant keep a woman


buy a case of beer and some tunup parts and work on it and be happy. then work on that paint.

Techsmurf, get back with me Wednesday on the timeslips to take down a GN, if all goes well this week

But he never actully said "Grand National" He said Monte Carlo Grand National.

If its a Monte Carlo SS..You have a much much better chance

('all in fun).

RBob.

Either a TTA or a GN with simple mods will walk almost anything with easy.

There is no use trying to beat one. Unless you own one.

TechSmurf, I'll get you a picture of his car. I'm off for the next few days but when I go back I'll snap one with my phone. His engine isnt larger. It's a V6 also. Were on the same level except he has a turbocharger. I think I can combat the turbo with Nitros. Then get bigger tires for traction. I'd probably give him a run then.

I found out some info on his car today. It's a Buick Regal Grand National. They only made 20,000 of them. Turbocharged, 345 HP and heavy as a tank. It's a family car loaded with options. It has an intercooler too. Some of the Gnats were made from the factory with special parts that gave them 380 or something HP.

V8SLAYER, are you messing with me? 100HP? I havent had a chance to race anyone yet, let alone a honda. I'd be really upset if an import could beat my American Muscle.

DOWARD, I want to hear about the timeslips. Keep me updated.

GRUMBY. I will beat his Gnat! Everyones negative talk is making me want to beat him more and more.

Heres another pic of the rear. Whats up with the wing? the previous owner said that it was a special wing. Not every car got one. I think he said that it was tested in wind tunnels.

oops, I forgot to attach it.

sorry to dissapoint you, but its going to take SERIOUS CASH to make your car faster than a 3.8 turbo buick. it will even take a bit of dough to make it beat a stock civic. the v6 version of the thirdgen (excluding the tta) is not really american muscle. its more of a baby mommas grocery getter engine in a sports cars body. not tryin to diss you, i have the same motor in my car.

oh and ive been beaten by civics, sunfires, old man 3800 II buick regals, and even some minivans. my roomates deisel golf would probably give me a good run too, not that id ever tell him that. hes too jelous of rear wheel drive

im tellin ya, make your car reliable to get you to work to save some cash to build a car with junkyard parts that will lay some hurting down.

Don't need a pic, that was more of a joke. His engine is larger, he's got .7 liters of displacement on you (3.8L Buick V6). You're not on the same level. The GN engine is designed to take alot more abuse than the 3.1 before it snaps. To give you an idea, my '88 is coming towards needing a new engine. The toss-up (as noted in my signature) is between an L98 (TPI 350) and an LC2 (Grand National 3.8L V6). The only reason it's a toss-up is finding an LC2 is generally far more difficult than finding an L98, otherwise the L98 simply wouldn't even be a consideration.

GNs are only marginally heavier than thirdgens. Thirdgens are *NOT* light (very few weigh in under 3000 lbs, most weigh 3200-3400). The plain 86/87 GN did not pump out 345HP.. closer to 270. You can call it a family car, but that's a joke. The Regal is a family car, the GN is a collectors' asphalt-eating muscle car. The GNX is the special one you speak of, which produced around 300hp. Either way, if your friend's is intercooled, it's an 86/87, and if he knows what he's doing $1000 bucks worth of modification will put him at a reliable streetable 400-550 hp. Even Doward can't touch base with a hot GN yet. But hey, maybe your buddy will refuse to modify his car... There's always a chance.

I've been there... Only redeeming factor was it being a turbo caravan... but it was stock and old and unhappy and walked all over me...... and I'm not sure he was trying to... that's the kinda thing that drove me to turbocharge

Theres always Dowards Turbo Kit

But you need 3K buy the end of march.

you only need two words to beat the Buick ( and probalby need to od that too) :

Ellis Jaun

I tend to think an Ell Tee Juan will work too

TechSmurf, I plan to run 13s next trip to the track.

I don't know if even a T61 is enough to take on a modified GN, though

That wing is nothing really special...I have it

Tested in Windtunnels?

LoL,Seems like he gave you a bunch of about that one.

Dont even bother modifying your car unless its serious stuff you plan to do.

well, the thirdgen firebirds were tested in wind tunnels, and the trans am wing was special and reduced the cd by .003, so that guy was probably just confusing info.

heh, good luck with the gn.

Dang V8 Slayer, You just broke my heart. Looks like I wasted my money buying a Firebird. I thought Firebirds were known to be hotrods. I guess not huh?

Who is Ellis Juan? Or Ell Tee Juan? I tried to search but came up with this thread only.

$3100 is too much for me to afford. No turbo kit for me. I do know a guy who has a turbo he's selling for $200. Do you think I could buy it and hook it up? I know it's an older turbo but it's suppost to be good and working. Where would I put the turbo anyways?

BTW, the guy that ownes the Gnat isnt a friend. He believes in satan.

I've been looking for parts on summit. How would these work?

Would I need this?

How about this chip?

I need some help chosing a nitros setup. Any ideas? I'm going to show y'all I can beat this Gnat!!!

Well, I just think you should realize you have a great car, and don't start beating on a firebird (you can get yourself into a lot of trouble around here by doing that). You have a v6, not a v8, and your dreams of beating this guy are very nieve. The amount of nitrous you would have to use to beat him would blow your stock engine to kingdom come, and then some, so that can't help you either. It seems like you are just learning about cars, and alot of people who come here are, including myself, and there is a lot to learn before you actually build the dream you are thinking of. I would agree that if you are just in this to win the girls, you are going about it all wrong. Your car could be amazingly appealing if its shiny, kinda comfy, and you don't act like an idiot driving it (and talking trash about his car won't help either). Fix it, paint it, then worry about how to make it faster.

I have been reading this thread alot here. You have a V-6, if you want to race get a V-8. Sell your car now or get a honda. Your call will take alot to get fast. The 2.8 3.1 are good reliable motors that get you to point a to b. They are fun high revving motors and can kick the car sideways with ease. Not good for racing or beating on. Buy a thirdgen for looks and style. not to be on

Disclaimer- He means "Drag Racing".

Ellis Juan = LS1
Elle T. Juan = LT1
Ellis Tu = LS2

The only cars to be faster off the showroom floor than the 89 TT/A were the LS1 cars, and only by tenths of a second. Think about that. Now think about that again.

Read the last three posts. Your car is not MENT to take down a Turbo Buick. Yours is to style & profile. Pimp it like it was meant to be, and stop worrying what other people are driving.

Great car? Your right. It's just a car. It's not a hotrod. It sucks. Nothing different than a station wagon. I thought Firebirds were the **** on the streets. Y'all have just proved to me that I have a slow car. All show, no go. I dont want to waste money making her look good or look fast. Thats for prettyboys. Forget about the paint. My priorities involve speed.

And yes, I am in it to get girls also. Some guys need a pu**y magnet to get girls. Excuse the language but it's true.

Trash talking? Yep, damn right. I'm on a mission and I'm spreading the word. I'm off work for a few days and during that time I'm sure he will hear about how I'm going to take the title of "fastest car in the parking lot".

When I get my tax money I'm going to try to buy a Regal grand national. I'm going to ask my grandpa to co-sign. I've been at my job for over a year. Hopefully he'll say yes cause I hate firebirds because there slow. I cant believe I was dumb enough to think firebirds were fast.

How fast are v8 firebirds? how about firehawks? Would a Gnat V6 beat a Firebird V8?

camaro350man, your comment really made me mad..."Sell your car now or get a honda." Are you serious? A honda is faster than a bird? thats sad.

Project: 85 2.8 bird, Your wrong...if I'm understanding you correctly, your saying that a LS1 is faster than a viper from the factory?

Hi I'm new

I own a 89 TTA
I have owned two 87 grand nationals.

You have a great car but grand nationals were super cars in the day. You are asking your car to be what it was never intended to be. It is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Your car with nitrous will not beat a good grand national. you will need a turbo and you will need to gut your engine. no more air conditioning and that stuff.

However are you sure it is a real grand national. If he won't let you look at the engine it could be a clone with a nice pain job and badges.

Downward

13 seconds is real resectable
You would beat that Grand National if it were stock. Could you post a picture of your car and the engine. I would be real interested.

Also don't waste your time going after a grand national. Right now they are over priced for the car conditions. I know because I was looking. 1989 TTA is a much better car. Faster cooler and much more fun to drive.

NOT THE SITE TO PUT DOWN THE FIREBIRD! Yes the v-6 birds are not the fastest thing. They will walk by some of the stock 305 tbi and alot of the hondas with the rattle can exhuast. They diff can get out of thier way however. The 305 350 TPI are very quick cars. However the way you talk, you should own a honda with a S*** can exhuast. I would hate to see a nice bird being beaten on and not respected by you. I think others would agree with me

Well, here's some more perspective... If the Grand National gave V8-powered cars trouble, then it's certainly going to give your V6 much more trouble. Chances are, the V8 you buy next will also get beaten by that GN.

But the kid just brags about his GN and won't show anyone the motor? That's lame... the kid's a poser. I bet he doesn't know a damn thing about engines, either!

That's a nice looking Firebird tho! Looks like you've got trans am seats in there. You have "part" of the "aerodynamic" package that 91-92 Firebirds got- the front bumper and headlights. The spoiler is the normal spoiler, not the aerodynamic one. Stock spoilers don't do anything for performance; they're just for looks. (And those huge silver jet-plane spoilers that kids put on their cars? They're actually hurting aerodynamics- they're adding a ton of drag!) As to your broken headlights; it might just be a simple fix- When you turn on the lights, do you hear the motors spin? If you do, then click on our sponser link at the top of this page, "Top Down Solutions". Lon has a kit that'll fix the 87-92 headlights. It's under the Body & Interior section, about mid-way down the page, for $20.

But it doesn't sound like you'll ever be happy with the car now! Fix it up, clean it up, sell it for more than you bought it for, and buy a different car. Think of this one as your "money" for your next ride.

where did the viper come from??? we're talking firebirds here.