IMO, the welds look "sloppy" because he was trying to take up space where the angled pipe didnt fit the plenium. I'm guessing the more "stock" version will have a different pipe, and mounting pattern. Thus also creating less of that "sloppy weld" as it will need a flat front put on it to match the smaller pipe.

yeah now that i look at it again, thats most likely the case, it wasn;t a dig , just a comment.

still curious to see what they can do, because we 60* v6 f body guys really need an aftermarket intake, and so far this is the only one thats been done

yea i think that they are doing the same for mine, though i am not totally sure, they know what i am doing with the engine, and they know that i need all the flow i can get, that does look prety sloppy for the weld on the neck. it looks like they miscut the angled neck while fitting it up to the collector area. but as long as it works, what the hey!

Its enough to support a 70mm TB if I even decide to go that route! Guess I will find out when it gets here. On the exact size as well the weld!

I'm liking what I'm seeing so far. What's he charging for them and are they ceramic coated? they look coated inthe picture.

What appeals to me is the fact we still use our bottom base manifold and this replaces only the upper and middle. I want to try and raise the floor of the head intake and the base manifold for a better angle, so this hasd no effect on that project and can be swaped back out without removing the base manifold from the heads when I have to do smog checks and visual inspection. One less gasket toworry about and one less headache of the ports not lining up if i had to break the gap between the base and the head.

600+S&h is what i am giving for mine. i don't think that he cerramic coated them, but i do think that he has them chromed. eithor way as long as they flow better than what we got now, it's cool with me!

Its powdercoating, not ceramic coating...it does have a similar finish to ceramic coating/chrome though.

i wonder if he can get it done in a medium blue to match the car and teh rest of the stuff under the hood?

i wonder how much of a pita this is gonna be to install, with the fuel rail and such needing to go in the middle of it, unless i'm looking at it all wrong

Kretos, you are thinking correctly. Its only 2 bolts that hold down the fuel rails, but yes it will be tight.

Anybody comfirm these are made from aluminum? I sure as heck hope theyare not steel, especially for that price. If they are aluminum, then $600 is a fair price. If they are steel, then forget it. That thing will be so heat soaked.

i do believe that that is aluminum however you would have to ask troy. wait you can't powdercoat aluminum from what i understand about the process cause aluminum is non magnetic and the powdercoating is magnetically charged. once it is in the oven, i don't think that it would be a problem.

if these are steel, then i think we have a issue, dean is correct in thinking that. but for $600 i would assume it was aluminum

that looks like steel to me. contouring aluminum like those runners are can be hard to do. not saying its not possible. my manifold stays cool while the motor is running, its aluminum. literally, you can lay your hand on top of it and its not hot enough to make you pull your hand back off. aluminum can be powder coated, I have done it many times. the powder is electronically charged, not magnetic. I personally don't like the "chrome" powder, it looks great in pictures but I don't like it that well in person...have used it many times, also.

how is ur new intake coming AM...PM me and let me know when you have something finished cuz id like to come by ur shop and sometime and check it out

Shannon or LT1guy, Could either of you please put a magnet to yours to verify if it is steel or aluminum? Thanks for any help. Its a great design, I just don't want to go to it if it is steel. If it is aluminum, I am ready to buy one.

i'm with you dean, its a nice looking intake that will be great under the hood of our cars, and make working on them easier, i hope its aluminum

Looks like mild steel mandrel bends to me.

i think that even if it is steel the heat would have time to disipate concidering the cool air going through it, and the design allowing air to go around it. i do agree that it would be better to make it out of aluminum. i will email him and ask him. should have a answer for sure by tomm

Questions, questions; let me first suggest that you folks go to trueleo.com and look at the Fiero intake as there is lots of info there including, flow bench data, dyno runs, installation info, and a list of options such as colors etc. Even though you’ll find it there too, here are a few answers:
1- Yes they are made from steel. They don’t get hot and are lighter than the stock aluminum one by a few pounds! Aluminum would have made them much more costly to make. Whereas we had to have special custom ($$$) mandrels made for the steel runners, in aluminum they would have been out of sight cost wise.
2- These manifolds are very costly to produce what with the cost for CNC multi angle flanges, custom mandrels etc. They will however completely wake 90V 6. Adding power throughout and lots of additional useable rpm.
3- Yup, they are powder coated. Our standard color is the Near Chrome, with others on special request.
4- That weld is just a built up area and that is more a prototype than a production intake.
5- While the intake is not five minute install, it is not hard to do. Just follow the instructions.
6- We did not replace the lower unit too because there was no need to as it is a strait in shot to the head. The mid and upper units are where the problem is.

there you go, guys, straight from the man himself. thanks again troy. you even answered a few questions i had for you, speaking of, you are making my intake like shannon's with the larger neck, right?

It is steel, but if I remember correctly I beleive Troy said it wasn't any heavier than the stock intake. I'd prefer aluminum as well, but I'm not sure if they are set up to do that. You might shoot them an email and check.

here are his words on the matter!

They are made out of steel. Alum would make it double the price and only save a few pounds. Not worth it at all. The steel is still much lighter than the stock alum.



LT1, troy(francis T.) just prety much answered all the questions himself, no offense.

people are wanting aluminum for the heat that you won't get. alum. dissapates (sp?) heat far better than steal does.

Name me one car you know with a factory steel intake manifold. There is a reason why they are made of aluminum, its to keep the intake charge cooler. His dyno runs are on a motor that is barely warmed up and not heat soaked yet.

At the very least he should have ceramic coated them to help reduce heat.
I'll stick with the aluminum plenum I built.

Just wtowarn everryone buying on of these also, Make certain you sheild the underside of your hood with a heat lining so you do not blister you paint job on the top side of the hood.

Francis wanted me to throw this up for him really quick!

"Some points on our hi-flo intake for the F-bods:

First off, Shannon's is a custom unit with it's oversize TB plate and plenum runner. That oval plenum is also custom item since the car needed more between the hood and intake top than what a stock hood requires. Also, there seems to be much-a-do about nothing with respect to vacuum fittings? Unless you folks require otherwise, I think we'll be putting two vacuum fittings on the rear to keep it clean looking. If you need more, simply add a Tee. If you only need one, put a small plug fitting over one of them. EGRs will be per request as with the Fieros. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or suggestions at rspiderii@aol.com"

Francis

Any suggestions then for the dyno to see if the heat soak effect causes a performance issue?

guess we will have to wait and see how it works for redraif, but it being made outta steel is a serious turnoff, deans points are quite valid.


I would love to see someone find out how hot these get, because after a lot of stop and go traffic my stock one gets pretty warm, i'd hate to see how hot a steel one would get.

Dyno tests are always done in a cool concrete floored covered garage with generally a massive fan blowing over the car to disperse the exhaust gasses and keep the engine compartment cool so it can be tuned without excessive heat. This also helps inflat their customers dyno #'s so they can boost to their friends about exagerated #'s. Dyno's are only good for giving a comparison #'s on changes made like what you have been recording Shannon between modification. But even a Dyno will vary from shop to shop or even from day to day on the same dyno.

Try to run the car out on a 90* day and running around town hard. It'll fall on its face. Why do you think GM just went to composite intake runners on the LS1 motors? It reduces heat soak. I'mnot being nasty here, I am just educating everyone. You can't make an intake manifold out of steel. Nobody in there right mind does except some backyard mechanic. Heck, don't take my word, just check any site like Edlebrock.

I just assumed from the getgo this guy was making them out of aluminum.

I was more worried about damage it would cause to other parts, such as the tps iac, vacuum hoses, and possibly even the injectors if it got hot enough.

tps and iac could see some increased temps but they are mounted on the TB (obviously) which shouldn't get quite as hot as the manifold will. the injectors should still be *okay* since they are in the stock aluminum base. the fuel will be heated good as it goes through the fuel rail which is clamped down good on the steel manifold.

i was more worried about the wires coming off the injectors, but i'm just a paranoid sorta guy when it comes to heat and cars

Lets do this then beforehand, I'll get a temp reading today if I get time on my TB temp when the car is hot. Now I am not talking letting it idle in the garage till it get to running temp, I mean go oiut and drive it and when I get home I will pop the hood while its still running and get a reading.

Someone then do the same on the TB temp with this steel intake bolted to the car. I have $500 that says I am right that is will be running at minumum 20* hotter. Coolness of intake charge is power.

Heck, lets save all that trouble. If steel disapates heat anywhere close to aluminum, then why have you never seen a steel radiator. Look at the difference even between brass and aluminum. Steel retains heat, it does not disapate worth beans.

Next time one of you car has been turned off for about an hour after driving, do this CAREFULLY- touch your intake, heck, lay your tongue onyour intake (stock aluminum plenum), then carefully tap your exhaust manifold and see the difference in how it is still showing heat.

Are you sure?

It couldn't be the fact that when your car is actually moving you have alot more airflow than that fan is giving you so they are just trying to simulate a pull more accurately? You think that fan is pushing more than a 60 mile an hour wind?

it would have nothing to do with simulating actualy driving as most people dont drive with their hood up in the air. its done to keep the block cooler so they can make time adjustments and such

So your telling me you are always starting your race against someone else when you are already doing at least 60mph or above?

Also, You hood is not open onthe freeway letting the hot air trapped under there coming off the exhaust manifolds and the radiator to duct up outward with a huge fan blowing over the top of the engine bay. Think about what you are trying to preach to me

Want a true dyno reading? next time drive the car around the block hard a few times then immediately put t onto the dyno rollers and getting a reading with the hood closed. You can use a fan over the front of the car to simulate air blowing over it from normal wind resistence, but open the back door of the garage and make it normal air temps sweeping over the nose of the car.

true aluminum does disipate heat better than steel, but that is only if the aluminum is taken away from the heat.

i don't know about anyone else's engine bay, but give me 10 mins of driving normally and i will shut the engine off, and open the hood, the heat is enough to take your breath away! the headers should help with that and heat wrap will help with that too, but there is still alot that comes off of the heads.

i have seen cast iron intakes on 2 different vehicles that i personally had, one was a 72 dodge adventurer powerwaggon and the other was a 83 chrysler cordoba. both had a factory 2bbl carb, and a cast iron intake.

Please elaborate. What do you mean exactly?

aluminum will only disipate heat down to ambient air around it, so if the air around it is say 110, then guess what temp is the minimum the aluminum will be? if there is a big problem with air charge temp, build a box around the intake and fill it withsome dry ice or just plain old regular ice. it will chill the metal and air around it about 10-15* it is a old drag trick i learned from a buddy that ran a old chevy monte carlo.

True, but the ambient air around the intake will most certainly be much lower, than the temperature of the intake itself.

So, the heat dissipation characteristics do matter when building an intake. The aluminun intake will without a doubt run cooler, than a stainless steel one. The heat dissipation is so much better with aluminum being the fabrication material. That's the same reason why computer processor coolers for example are always made of either aluminum or copper.

Ok here's the deal- Why is aluminum better than steel when it comes to heat dissipation?

Aluminum will transfer heat conductivity at a rate of 237K

Mild steel (based on is makeup) has a range of 45-65K transfer rate.

what this means is the heat coming off the motor transfer into the intake. The surface area of the material is what dissipates the heat where it contacts air. the steel will not transfer heat at the rate the aluminum will towards the surface areas to release the heat so the unit stays much more heat soaked and the temps increase.
Baisc rules of physics.

Iron intakes have a condutivety rate of 80K. The cars they put these on where not what you would call performance vehicles.

Thank yoiu for your time. I am finished with this thread.

these rnt exactly drag cars and never will be. most people want to get extra performance for street use. i doubt u wanna dump ice on ur intake everytime u wanna go for a drive somewhere. its about performance and practicallity. this intake is starting to seem like a $600+ heat pump. the better airflow will be counterbalanced by the fact that the air temp is gonna be so much higher. even if it was ceramic coated, wouldnt that just hold the heat inside and making it even worse? the only way that u will really know the difference is to run it at track(several runs) after getting some numbers with a stock intake. until someone does that, we can only guess what effects it will have.

eithor way i am getting one, as i need that flow that the intake they are making does, and until someone makes a aluminum one with better numbers, this is what i am gonna run, like it or not.
you all were saying about not having a good intake, and troy agreed to make a limited number, redraif and i decide to get one, and try to share what we found to give you another alternative on the intake situation. if you don't like them, then don't buy them. i drag, so heat is only a problem when it is scorching hot, and ice works for me to cool that intake down. if that don't help, co2 in a bottle works well too.

alan still hasn't had time to produce his manifolds, or throttlebodies, and well noone else really has tried with the exception of dean. i don't have a bender or the correct welder to weld aluminum or i would try, let alone the time.

How much of a power gain can you expect from our sixer's with this intake?

I'd think with a CAI, headers, highflow cat, and good exhaust it would help the breathing alot.

I'd really like to see some numbers from you guys once you get it on.

If it's significant I'm one step closer to not even doing a v8 swap and going with a turboed v6...

shawn, let me warn you to be very careful when you build your high compression motor! that high heat air flowing into the motor will cause you BIG detonation problems!!!

I shot my manifold with an infrared temp gun after I had driven about 30-40 minutes...got home, popped the hood and shot it...showed in the 70 degree range. that was before I ceramic coated it.

if this thing is sucking that much more air in, it would cause the ECM to adjust for more fuel flow correct? if the air is as hot as we r now thinking it will be, u wont get a good burn correct? so now ur dumping that extra fuel out of the exhaust right? correct me if i am wrong here.

thanks for the warning alan, i plan on getting the thing cerramic coated, but i got to find a place that will do it first. i realise the thing about detonation. i have a 10 min drive to work, and the track is about 20 mins away. by the time the intake starts heating up, it will be getting cooled off.

maf cars, yes, the computer will detect more airflow and add fuel. MAP cars, the computer will see different map pressures and should add fuel. MAP systems will need a little more tuning most likely. You may run a little rich but it won't be enough to be "dumping extra fuel out the exhaust".

be careful when getting the manifold caoted, also. I'm not real sure that I will ceramic coat my as a standard thing, now. Because, when I coated mine, it warped the flanges a little bit. You have to heat the part to 500+ degrees to bake the ceramic. you must not drive your car as much as I do! I drive mine everywhere, I average about 250 miles a week, probably.

AM, id like to come by ur shop sometime and check ur intake out. lemme know

when i get this freggin engine built, i will be to break it in quicker, but not right now since this girl hit my passenger side front end. she messed the entire front clip. i got little cracks and rips in the plastic all over now. going this weekend up to Ga to get a new one and some ground effects