V6Discussion and questions about the base carbureted or MPFI V6's and the rare SFI Turbo V6.
Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!
3.4 top end:
(heads are exactly the same as 2.8/3.1) you have to convert to a DIS because the intake would interfere with the distributor. You'll see almost no difference in power.
Post-1996 3400cc top end (also, post-2000 3100cc top ends):
Everything from the head gaskets to the throttle body will bolt on. You still have to convert to a DIS. Then get gen 2 pushrods and a truck/suv throttle cable (1995? i think). you'll want to use 3100 pistons to keep your compression stockish... otherwise it will be around 11:1. The entire 3100 rotating assembly will also fit a later 2.8/3.1 blocks. In essence, all you're really changing is the engine block itself!
A DIS (distrubutorless ignition system) requires fabrication of a crank trigger to reference the ICM (ignition control module). Or you could get a universal crank trigger kit (from MSD I think) for $320. You can use coil packs and ICM from any DIS 60v6.
your power numbers will be comparable to a stock 3100 engine
3.4 top end:
(heads are exactly the same as 2.8/3.1) you have to convert to a DIS because the intake would interfere with the distributor. You'll see almost no difference in power.
Post-1996 3400cc top end (also, post-2000 3100cc top ends):
Everything from the head gaskets to the throttle body will bolt on. You still have to convert to a DIS. Then get gen 2 pushrods and a truck/suv throttle cable (1995? i think). you'll want to use 3100 pistons to keep your compression stockish... otherwise it will be around 11:1. The entire 3100 rotating assembly will also fit a later 2.8/3.1 blocks. In essence, all you're really changing is the engine block itself!
A DIS (distrubutorless ignition system) requires fabrication of a crank trigger to reference the ICM (ignition control module). Or you could get a universal crank trigger kit (from MSD I think) for $320. You can use coil packs and ICM from any DIS 60v6.
your power numbers will be comparable to a stock 3100 engine
The 3x00 blocks are superior to the x.x blocks.
Main prioority oiling and roller cam for starters. Then you have all the extra webbing in the valley, cam retainer, but some things got worse in my opinion - such as the timing gear set is almost 1/2 the thickness of a Gen1 set (tends to stretch with a stiff/radical spring/cam combo). the cam gear is also bolted on by one large bolt in the center with a tiny pin to hold it true to the cam timing. This pin can sheer with detonation, or also with high HP applications.
Side note:
Just sold the 3500 block to a Midget racer. He's planning on 350-370hp out of the 3500. 12-14:1 SCR and running on alcohol.
It's replacing the iron duke 4 cyl with a single v8 racing head on top making 340hp.
He's going to use 3500 heads, "six pack" Hillborn individual TB's on a custom manifold. Uses a magneto in place of the dizzy, and a forged crank. He broke severl Gen1 blocks right down the valley, and was looking for the best 3x00 block he could find. The old 3.4 had 3400 heads with 7/16" valves and rocker studs, with tool steel springs, full roller rockers and sold roller lifters.
3.4 top end:
(heads are exactly the same as 2.8/3.1) you have to convert to a DIS because the intake would interfere with the distributor. You'll see almost no difference in power.
Post-1996 3400cc top end (also, post-2000 3100cc top ends):
Everything from the head gaskets to the throttle body will bolt on. You still have to convert to a DIS. Then get gen 2 pushrods and a truck/suv throttle cable (1995? i think). you'll want to use 3100 pistons to keep your compression stockish... otherwise it will be around 11:1. The entire 3100 rotating assembly will also fit a later 2.8/3.1 blocks. In essence, all you're really changing is the engine block itself!
A DIS (distrubutorless ignition system) requires fabrication of a crank trigger to reference the ICM (ignition control module). Or you could get a universal crank trigger kit (from MSD I think) for $320. You can use coil packs and ICM from any DIS 60v6.
your power numbers will be comparable to a stock 3100 engine
Two things wrong with your post:
You would need to use custom length pushrods, since the genII pushrods are not the correct length to use the genIII roller fulcrum rockers.
The MSD trigger wheels will NOT work with the GM DIS, for one the MSD uses a non-magnetic sensor, the magnets are in the wheel itself, and the MSD wheels do not have a "home" signal. This part at this juncture needs to be custom.
Also the above is why many have opted for the 3.4 block from the 4th gen F-body, it has provisions for the crank trigger already, plus the extra displacement doesn't hurt.
How does it look mocked up? I think the silver block is growing on me. Probably going to use a set of our polished valve covers to match the plenum (plenum is getting re-polished before install)...
Just wish I had a cam to put behind that timing cover, lol. Didn't have time today to call Delta, but by next week the cam and lifters will be here.
I think I may have decided to raise the compression a bit. The 3.4 gakets will give 12.33:1, but I am afraid the .030" clearance isn't enough after seeing Dave's valve/piston slap (.040" is ideal). The 3x00 gaskets and 3.4 piston-to-deck clearance will give ample room, but I don't know about keeping a .050" quench. 3400 gaskets will make 11.56:1, and 3500 gaskets will be 11.5:1.
I've got a hybrid going togather to replace the 3.1 TBI in the S10 that just self destructed when a seeping heater core went un-noticed. Its basis is a $250 3.4 from a 90K mile 1995 Camaro. I am shooting for roughly 12:1 compression and 240 FWHP. Still trying to work out the details on the top-end I am going to use. Will most likely be a 3400/3500 top end.
I've got a hybrid going togather to replace the 3.1 TBI in the S10 that just self destructed when a seeping heater core went un-noticed. Its basis is a $250 3.4 from a 90K mile 1995 Camaro. I am shooting for roughly 12:1 compression and 240 FWHP. Still trying to work out the details on the top-end I am going to use. Will most likely be a 3400/3500 top end.
PM me. I rebuild heads/engines all the time at the shop. In fact, I have several 3400 heads and UIM's, one LIM right now not being used
----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2.8RS
That engine is finally comming together and it is looking great. When do you think it will be in the car and running.
Eventually, lol.
----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six_Shooter
FF, don't chance it, .030 is way too tight for quench.
Well according to my measurements, the 3.4 had a .0305" quench from the factory.
The pistons protrude from the block .0095" measured yesterday with a depth mic. The head gaskets are .040" compressed height. .040"-.0095"=.0305"
I'm planning on spinning this thing up to 7k, don't need any flaws.
Guess I'll torque the heads down with the 3500 gaskets - .0505" quench.
----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimmcs
That looks real good. What throttle body are you using?
Im going to have to put mine together just to see what it will look like...
That TB is a Ford 65mm unit someone sent me to make an adapter for. I may be using a 70mm 4.3/5.7 Vortech TB I have.
Last edited by firstfirebird; 02-08-2008 at 06:59 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
This may or may not work. Over on FTV6 one of the guys made a conversion kit to swap in a T56 in to fit the 3.8s. IIRC the 3.8 has the same bolt pattern so this could potentially work?
I was supposed to get .510"/.520" with a 230/236 duration 110* LSA 4* advance and I got this...
Even with with 1.6 rockers, it's .485"/.496" lift and the duration and advance is still less. This cam is showing 306hp@6500265tq@5500 in the SIM vs. the 309hp@7000266tq@5500. Probably just going to install it since a boost cam upgrade will be comming later.
As some of you may know,
Thinking about building the old 3.1 with twin turbos and 3400 heads, so it will drop right in place of the 3.4/3500 while it's out getting 3400 pistons (9.1:1SCR for boost). Then the 3.1/3400 turbo kit will bolt right to the 3.4/3500 when it's ready This will also give me a change to fabricate/test a DIS conversion for the 3.1/2.8's. I was diggin through parts today and realized I already have all the bearings, and even the gaskets to build the 3.1. just would need to select a nice boost cam (and hope they get it right this time, lol).
----------
Actually the cam was installed today, and the pushrods were purchased.
The lifters are soaking now
Last edited by firstfirebird; 02-24-2008 at 06:10 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I wish they'd call before they selected a lobe profile, they gave me too much exhaust duration, a decent amount more than what i had requested.
EH. I was going to return it, but figured it would be another week to get it back to them (FL to Wash), then a couple of days for the grind, and yet another week for it to be shipped again.
Said F-it and bolted it in today.
I'm not going to get too concerned about +/- 6-9 HP (according to Desktop Dyno 2000).
Also got the Gen 2 p-rods today. Dave, how many turns after the rods stop spinning before the rockers are seated on the 3500 heads? Like I mentioned at 60*, I can calculate the taper on the threads to find out, but it's easier to ask, lol.
Not sure.. I can check after i re-assemble my heads. My seals and stuff should be here in a few days.
Cool, I won't have the motor ready to drop in in a few days
I won't be using the stock rockers for long, or maybe at all. If I can afford the supporting parts before it's ready to go in, the AL full rollers I posted earlier will be going in.
----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBcobra
Driving an auto takes the fun out of the engine you just built T-5 wouldn't handle the power.
Auto isn't bad, turbo's like them just fine.
Right now the biggest drawbacks in my drivetrain will be the 3.23 open differential, and the tranny has 89k miles.
I would actually like to throw one of my motors in a small car like the Miata, RX7, or like the neighbor at my shop is doing... Type1 Beetle (72 or so IIRC).
Last edited by firstfirebird; 02-24-2008 at 08:34 PM.
Right now the biggest drawbacks in my drivetrain will be the 3.23 open differential, and the tranny has 89k miles.
I would actually like to throw one of my motors in a small car like the Miata, RX7, or like the neighbor at my shop is doing... Type1 Beetle (72 or so IIRC).
what gears are you thinking about putting in?
__________________ 1992 Chevorlet Camaro RS 25th Anniversary
3.1L V6 191ci
K&N filter, new custom exhaust 2.5" downpipe from manifolds back, cat delete, Flowmaster 80's series muffler.
Audio: Alpine CDE-9881 deck, Lanzar Opti500X2, 2 12" SWR-1222D Alpine Type R.
SOON LSx/T-56 swap If I get the money !
Yeah Im keeping my auto. Ive been told that turbos like auto more than manuals. It keeps the psi from dropping, so much, in between shifts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstfirebird
Right now the biggest drawbacks in my drivetrain will be the 3.23 open differential, and the tranny has 89k miles.
Those are my 2 hang-ups on my drive line as well. I have the posi differential, but I dont know if I will have the $$$ to buy everything I need to install it. And add about 30K miles to your tranny, and thats where mine's at.
I got mine from Summit. I got the cam/timing chain/lifters kit. Paid a little bit more...but mine was what I ordered
What grind did you get?
I wasn't saying anything bad about Delta, they still gave me a cam that should make close to 300hp N/A :P Last time I got an off-the-shelf grind from Delta, there was no problem. I paid $100 for a 260h including lifters
I put that 260 grind in my lil bro's bird, I think it was a mismatch for the stock heads though. Cam starts to work around 3500rpm and the heads choke it around 4600rpm. you get about 1000 rpm of wondering how this little 3.1 can do THAT, then it reminds you its still slow at 4700rpm.
I'm not a v6 hater... just a stock 2.8/3.1 headed v6 hater.
I put that 260 grind in my lil bro's bird, I think it was a mismatch for the stock heads though. Cam starts to work around 3500rpm and the heads choke it around 4600rpm. you get about 1000 rpm of wondering how this little 3.1 can do THAT, then it reminds you its still slow at 4700rpm.
I'm not a v6 hater... just a stock 2.8/3.1 headed v6 hater.
Yep. That cam is for ported heads and/or raised compression according to Delta.
Add a 4* advance to it, and that should help the stock heads a little by lowering the torque peak in the RPM's.
EDIT: Mine's going to really wake up at 4000RPM
Desktop Dyno with all my info:
Cam I got...
...and the cam I designed...
There is a 9hp difference according to the simulatiuon (between the two cams), but they moved the peak down a bit in the RPM's, so it might be for the better after all.The curves are also flatter.
Last edited by firstfirebird; 02-25-2008 at 08:34 PM.
I wish dd2000 had a valve float calculation. I designed a wicked high rpm profile awhile ago that topped out at 10k, but according to engine analyzer pro valvefloat would've cut it down to 8500 with beehive springs and a roller valvetrain.
Do you have a flow chart for the 3500 heads? I've searched on 60*.com and can't find it.
I wish dd2000 had a valve float calculation. I designed a wicked high rpm profile awhile ago that topped out at 10k, but according to engine analyzer pro valvefloat would've cut it down to 8500 with beehive springs and a roller valvetrain.
Do you have a flow chart for the 3500 heads? I've searched on 60*.com and can't find it.
Stock 3500 heads...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SappySE107
3500 Non VVT Head Flow Numbers
CCed the intake at 114.4 and the exhaust at 68.6.
I have the CraneCams 260 grind in my TT 350, full boost by 2600 and tons of torque. Excellent street turbo cam from my experience. keep a stockish stall converter w/ an automatic. I ordered a 2600 stall (claimed lowest possible from precision industries), it actually stalls at 3000, I guess they under estimated the torque output. I could drive "aggressively" without going over 3000 before the automatic, but 4500rpm could pop a t5.
Last edited by ttypecamaro; 02-26-2008 at 09:34 PM.
Ahh, I know where deerfield beach is.. Me and the girlfriend are just going for a week, and meeting up with my grand parents, so we'll probably be at Pompano/Ft Lauderdale beach all week..
!
T-5 wouldn't handle the power. 
