V6Discussion and questions about the base carbureted or MPFI V6's and the rare SFI Turbo V6.
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Something else to add, get a 3.4 from a 4th gen f-body. Everything on your motor will bolt up. With a 3.4 you are already at 160HP instead of starting at 135 with the 2.8, a nice head start. I hope to make 190 whenever I get a 3.4. Maybe I'll get lucky and find a 3.4 at the Moultrie swap meet.
Personally I'm thinking that if I go that route I'll get a 3.4 replace the crank w/ a 2.8 reducing to a 3.1 and allowing my engine to rev(from what I've been told) up to around 6500. Creating a bunch of HP, but not quite creating a bunch of torque. Just thinking about it right now though.
Personally I'm thinking that if I go that route I'll get a 3.4 replace the crank w/ a 2.8 reducing to a 3.1 and allowing my engine to rev(from what I've been told) up to around 6500. Creating a bunch of HP, but not quite creating a bunch of torque. Just thinking about it right now though.
The 3.4 with the longer stroke will rev to 6500 no problem. The restriction is in the heads and intake that keep it from making any power up that high.
The 3.4 with the longer stroke will rev to 6500 no problem. The restriction is in the heads and intake that keep it from making any power up that high.
QFT. Its the heads and intake that are really restrictive on these motors.
QFT. Its the heads and intake that are really restrictive on these motors.
Why put the 2.8 crank into the 3.4?
I was told(I think @ fbody) that shorter crank will equal higher revs w/ no problems.
But hey guys I found a cam with some decent specs, I'm thinking, for a 2.8:
Melling MEL-MTC-5
Cam Style:Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range:1,000-4,200
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:204
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:214
Duration at 050 inch Lift:204 int./214 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration:278
Advertised Exhaust Duration:288A
dvertised Duration:278 int./288 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.420 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.443 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.420 int./0.443 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees):110
Intake Valve Lash:0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash:0.000 in.
Computer Controlled Compatible:Yes
Only thing I don't like about it is it's only good up to 4,200 rpm. I don't usaully go over 4000 a lot anyway. With some new 3400 heads (probably not for another couple of monthes) I might though. Your thought on these specs?
PS this is also good to go in a 3.1, but it's not showing comatible with 3.4? any idea why? or are these close to stock specs for 3.4?
Last edited by kscamaro89; 11-13-2007 at 04:46 AM.
Reason: Copy n paste all screwed up
Any cam that works for the 2.8 will work with the 3.4. A mild cam that everyone is happy with is the Comp Ca 260H. I think that the range is up to 5200 RPM or so. These motor can see upwards of 7K RPM max.
It says it isn't computer compatible. What can I do about that? EPROM chip or Next Level Computer Module? Basically, will extending my fuel map work? Or do I have to go carb?
Or can I just get by with cam and lifters if I have no real problems with valvetrain? IF I do the head swap will all the valve springs, retainers, and locks tranfer over? Again wondering about "Not computer compatible".
Last edited by kscamaro89; 11-13-2007 at 08:11 AM.
Reason: addition
It says it isn't computer compatible. What can I do about that? EPROM chip or Next Level Computer Module? Basically, will extending my fuel map work? Or do I have to go carb?
Strange, it should. There are many people who are runnning this cam who are computer controlled.
hey why dont you just keep the 2.8 an just get some performance stuff for it cause if youre going to be switching motors why wouldnt you switch for a v8 , heres what ide do to the 2.8, get a hypertech chip wich you can find a local parts store for a nice price , work on makeing it breath better the better the breathing the more power , headers no cat converter octane booster, you know just some real basic stuff , cause its kinda dumb in my opinion to swap v6 for v6 an it may require more modifing to, an yes i can see a difference an why you would consider that , but you can probly get a nice v8 for the same price , maybe cheaper?
hey why dont you just keep the 2.8 an just get some performance stuff for it cause if youre going to be switching motors why wouldnt you switch for a v8 , heres what ide do to the 2.8, get a hypertech chip wich you can find a local parts store for a nice price , work on makeing it breath better the better the breathing the more power , headers no cat converter octane booster, you know just some real basic stuff , cause its kinda dumb in my opinion to swap v6 for v6 an it may require more modifing to, an yes i can see a difference an why you would consider that , but you can probly get a nice v8 for the same price , maybe cheaper?
Ummmm...gas mileage, insurance, cost of more parts for the swap, and for me its fun and different.
Don't get me wrong, I love V8s to death, but a V8 swap is just really involved with little stuf you gotta change.
Ummmm...gas mileage, insurance, cost of more parts for the swap, and for me its fun and different.
AAAMEN!!! All my buddies have V8's. Plus to swap out for another V6 is SOOOO much easier. I've helped with a v6 to v8 swap. F%$K that S*%T. Plus a v8 requires tranny swap also. Big $$$ compared to a v6 swap that MIGHT cost 1500 to 2000 with nicely built engine. All things considered, it's just less of a headache and alot more custom.
Something else to add, get a 3.4 from a 4th gen f-body. Everything on your motor will bolt up. With a 3.4 you are already at 160HP instead of starting at 135 with the 2.8, a nice head start. I hope to make 190 whenever I get a 3.4. Maybe I'll get lucky and find a 3.4 at the Moultrie swap meet.
I'm confused, I read on several google searches that my 3.1 came with 180HP stock...is that not right?
Also, (sorry for being a noob) what do you guys mean by intake? Like a cold air intake or an intake manifold? I'm getting an engine rebuild from a friend in the spring for 600. So I have some time to collect parts. If you were shopping for heads and an intake, which ones would you use??? Thanks for the cam link, the one I was looking at before cost three times that much and it was almost the same! - Nate
Last edited by ohiotemplar; 11-14-2007 at 01:08 AM.
Reason: EDIT: 1 more thing
Bone stock the 3.1 is running 140@ 4400 prm. (by the way your gears are 3.23)
Most people are refering to a intake manifold when talking of replacing. The heads (as stated earlier by 2.8RS), TB, and Exhaust manifolds are were the flow is impeded in the 60 deg V6's. Most the guys will suggest (I think it's a really big headache) a head swap that will definitly give you big movement of air through your engine, but it's to the 3400 FWD heads. No Distributor so DIS is needed and looks to a Pain in the A$$ to wire. But here's a good upgrade TB for a 2.8/3.1:
^^^ how much of a gain in hp will i see with just this TB cuz im a noob and i wouldent know the first thing about changing heads or putting in a new cam. Installing a Tb sounds pretty simple just unbolt the old one an bolt on the new one...
That TB would be a little too big for a stock motor. With mine I just smoothed out all of the bumps in it and polished it. I did see a nice increase in response with the throttle. About all that you can do for the intake is gasket match it for a little more flow especially in the top end, but doing this won't be a huge increase in power. A set of Pacesetter headers with a high flow cat and catback is where alot of power is gained. A good gasket match and polish would help airflow with the intake.
In short- less stroke equals higher rpm capability and quicker revving. But stroke alone isn't what limits rpm capability. An engine with 3.5" stroke is just as capable of turning a constant 7000 rpm as one with 3" stroke, but the limiting factor is load. The 3.5" stroke engine has a higher piston speed thus places higher load on reciprocating parts, physically limiting the max rpm it can reach. This really doesn't matter on a street engine that rarely sees 7k (if ever), but it's very important to racing engines. A shorter stroke does benefit a street engine though by allowing it to revv quicker. A shorter stroke crank can also be stronger by reducing side-load on pistons and having improved crank loading.
Quote:
Ummmm...gas mileage, insurance, cost of more parts for the swap, and for me its fun and different.
Just to add to what you said, other benefits of a v6 are improved handling, better weight balance and a lighter engine.
KScamaro89- the reason they say certain cam's aren't computer compatible is because of emissions problems. Avoid aftermarket chips like jet or hypertech, they're worthless in my opinion. Why pay $200 for a general-purpose chip when you could tune it yourself and get much better results?
In short- less stroke equals higher rpm capability and quicker revving. But stroke alone isn't what limits rpm capability. An engine with 3.5" stroke is just as capable of turning a constant 7000 rpm as one with 3" stroke, but the limiting factor is load. The 3.5" stroke engine has a higher piston speed thus places higher load on reciprocating parts, physically limiting the max rpm it can reach. This really doesn't matter on a street engine that rarely sees 7k (if ever), but it's very important to racing engines. A shorter stroke does benefit a street engine though by allowing it to revv quicker. A shorter stroke crank can also be stronger by reducing side-load on pistons and having improved crank loading.
I thought there was a reason like that for a shorter stroke. With me I figured that the 3.4 revs easy enough in its stock form plus a few extra cubes never hurt.
KScamaro89- the reason they say certain cam's aren't computer compatible is because of emissions problems. Avoid aftermarket chips like jet or hypertech, they're worthless in my opinion. Why pay $200 for a general-purpose chip when you could tune it yourself and get much better results?
So if I do run one will it kick a code? Or will I have to tune my ECM?
Bone stock the 3.1 is running 140@ 4400 prm. (by the way your gears are 3.23)
Most people are refering to a intake manifold when talking of replacing. The heads (as stated earlier by 2.8RS), TB, and Exhaust manifolds are were the flow is impeded in the 60 deg V6's. Most the guys will suggest (I think it's a really big headache) a head swap that will definitly give you big movement of air through your engine, but it's to the 3400 FWD heads. No Distributor so DIS is needed and looks to a Pain in the A$$ to wire. But here's a good upgrade TB for a 2.8/3.1:
You can swap in one of those cams and it'll run (maybe a little rough) but it might not pass emissions and if the engine isn't pulling enough vacuum sd ecms will crap out. It's always better to tune the ecm to your particular combination since no 2 engines are alike. Your combination could be radically different from what the designers of an aftermarket chip intended for it.
You'll need wiring diagrams, and the PCM from the 3x00 car as well.
I just noticed this and is completly incorrect.
You don't need, nor want the 3x00 PCM. It would require changing the wiring in practically the whole car to that of the donor, this includes BCM, guage cluster, etc.
The hybrid or full 3x00 will run just fine off an MPFI ECM, such as the 7730, with proper tuning. It will infact run off an untuned bin file, if you start with something like a bin file (or complete MEMCAL) from an early '90s 3.1 MPFI genII car such as a Cavalier or Beretta. Sure it won't run perfect, but is definatly more than drivable.
That's for a FWD engine.. I'm pretty sure that won't work with the RWD timing cover.
but yes, there is supposedly like an 11HP gain by switching to the smaller, lighter UD pully.. but you lose the harmonic dampener which some people believe is not a good idea.
That's for a FWD engine.. I'm pretty sure that won't work with the RWD timing cover.
but yes, there is supposedly like an 11HP gain by switching to the smaller, lighter UD pully.. but you lose the harmonic dampener which some people believe is not a good idea.
It's listed by make and model that it is for a Camaro 2.8 or 3.1. How could you run the engine w/o a harmonic balancer? It balances the crankshaft. It's been awhile since I've worked on my car (due to deployment), but if the balancer/damener was not there wouldn't that cause the UD pulley to be set back further than the rest of the pulleys on the serpintine setup?
That's for a FWD engine.. I'm pretty sure that won't work with the RWD timing cover.
but yes, there is supposedly like an 11HP gain by switching to the smaller, lighter UD pully.. but you lose the harmonic dampener which some people believe is not a good idea.
A FWD pulley will will fit with a RWD timing cover, except the 3500, and possibly the DOHC 3.4 (harmonic balancer).
The FWD UD will give no benefit to the RWD application however and will not allow the stock crank pulley, or any RWD 660 crank pulley to be bolted to it for that matter.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kscamaro89
It's listed by make and model that it is for a Camaro 2.8 or 3.1. How could you run the engine w/o a harmonic balancer? It balances the crankshaft. It's been awhile since I've worked on my car (due to deployment), but if the balancer/damener was not there wouldn't that cause the UD pulley to be set back further than the rest of the pulleys on the serpintine setup?
A harmonic balancer does NOT balance the crank shaft, it simply absorbs harmonics that are created from the cylinders firing. Balancing is done to the crank itself.
What Dave is refering to is that the FWD UD pulleys loose the hamonic balance part of the pulley, in other words, the rubber ring is gone and is just a pulley essentially, but the belt is lined up fine. This applies to the FWD set-up.
Last edited by Six_Shooter; 11-25-2007 at 03:53 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
ok basic info i need to know. 1st ive been looking everywhere for throttle bodies for the 2.8 cant find one. would a 3.1 or 3.4 bolt up to my 2.8? second, would vortec heads fit on my 2.8 if so werent vortec heads only made for the 4.3? not to sure if this would work. most of my mods are going to be top end. no camshaft, port and polish heads and intake and a custom filter assembly. also going for a set of pacesetter headers. i was thinking about going v8 but i dont have the facilities to do that. so im just gonna play with what i got. almost forgot. if i do any bottom end work how far can i bore? i believe the bore right now is 3.5 inches could i take it up 3.75 or 4?
ok first, no i dont think the 3.1/3.4 throttle body will work unless you have the manifold to go with it,2nd. yes you can bore to .40 over.
No way you'd ever be able to bore it out .4". The max you could get away with is .08" IF you have a good casting and do sonic checking to make absolutely sure it's got enough meat.
Bone stock the 3.1 is running 140@ 4400 prm. (by the way your gears are 3.23)
Most people are refering to a intake manifold when talking of replacing. The heads (as stated earlier by 2.8RS), TB, and Exhaust manifolds are were the flow is impeded in the 60 deg V6's. Most the guys will suggest (I think it's a really big headache) a head swap that will definitly give you big movement of air through your engine, but it's to the 3400 FWD heads. No Distributor so DIS is needed and looks to a Pain in the A$$ to wire. But here's a good upgrade TB for a 2.8/3.1:
Name's Matt. I'm new to the site. Just wondering if the 62mm TB would fit on my 89 stock 2.8? The website says it does in the title, but in the describtion it only talks about the 3.1. Will the stock snorkel fit on the larger TB? If not, what do you suggest? Also, I've been lookin' at a set of Pacesetter headers and y-pipe. However, these headers don't work with the air injection system that's on my car. Have you guys ever heard of anyone taking it off? If so, any problems and how hard to do it? Heard it only helps emissions so it's not really necessary. Also, any good high flow cats and cat back systems? Want my car so sound amazing. Thanks in advance.
Last edited by mprosco91; 02-02-2008 at 09:15 PM.
Reason: wanted to add something
