I haven't driven my camaro much since I got it b/c it's not my daily driver. Well my daily driver took a poop and I had to drive it around for a couple weeks. Yay! One thing troubled me, I only got like 230 miles out of a tank of gas. That seems slim. I know it's an automatic and everything, but man I really feathered that gas. I mean I took it really easy. So I had a couple Q's about some stuff I could do for some gas mileage. Lets just say, hypothetically, that I don't care about HP and I just want some better gas mileage. 1. I use plus gas b/c I was told by my mechanic buddy that it keeps everything cleaner. Is there a way I could adjust the timing or something to get better use of that better gas? 2. I'm bypassing my smog pump, thanks to azreal for giving my the ac delete/air pump delete belt routing. I can add it to the post if anyone needs it. But I'm a little shy on instruction. After bypassing the air pump don't I have to plug some lines? Where are they? Will I get a CEL? 3. Would a manifold bypass (i think that's what it's caleld when they do custom duals without headers eh?) dually setup with straight pipes leading only to 2 flowmasters help? Which flowmaster mufflers would be best? 40 series? 4. Underdrive Pulley: would this help? are there diff ones to chose from? I've never thought about this so it's foriegn territory to me. Thanks alot guys! Any other gas saving ideas would be fantastic!

Tune it up and check timing. Looks like you are getting less then 15mpg. Last time I filled the car (don't drive mine much either, not running now) it got over 280 miles to the full tank IIRC.

Its tuned up. Everything is new. I even tore everything out that I bought and replaced it with AC delco parts after reading a few posts on this forum. Runs like a champ. How do I check the timing? What would happen if I advanced it? What would be a good timing advance for plus gas? 89 octane.

Start buying the cheap stuff. Your mechanic's right, but the extra cash you're dumping into it to keep it a little cleaner isn't worth it. You need to plug all lines running from/to the air pump. A better exhaust system has some potential mileage gains, but a cheap setup won't help. The best way to improve your mileage is with tuning.

And with mileage that bad, I've got to think there is a vacuum leak somewhere. It can still run great with that.

Also, the coolant temp sensor has given me crap mileage before. Be sure to check that.

So what your guys are saying is; messing with my timing is not a good way to acheive mileage? Roger that, I wasn't sure. One of my friends with a ***** messed with his timing and got 40 mpg but it took his car from 120 to 90 HP. But those are probably alot more computer controlled than our cars. The vacuum leak is interesting. I do get a CEL sometimes, but it never stays on. The only line I havn't replaced is the one the goes from the back of the intake and then snakes around by the battery and disappears into the fender. I havn't had the time to pull the tire and the platic fender well in order to find out where it goes. But if there's a leak it's got to be that one. I already replaced the coolant temp sensor located under the TB.

1. Premium gas is actually dirtier from what I have found and its less explosive actually. You will do better with basic 87/88 UNLESS you are getting spark knock on that, then premium is needed.

2. Depending on your year depends on what lines you need to plug. I didnt get a SES light when I removed mine from my 3.1.

3. No need for true duals. Just get 2.5" all the way, mandrel bend. And also have them make the y-pipe a y-pipe rather then a t-pipe. Keep your cat unless you do all highway miles. Muffler is up to you, all thats really different between borla, flowmaster, dynomax, etc is the noise it emits. (yes theres difference inside, but they all flow fine). Dont judge sound off what an 8 sounds like. The 6 produces a complete different tone.

4. They can tend to help. I refuse to use jet because of customer service. I like ASP's. Get crank only.


What your not taking into consideration is all the main things. First, tuneup(more then just plugs n wires)!

Then, air pressure, alignment, drag from brakes, wind-resistance, extra weight in the car. And actually baby footing the thing is not ALWAYS best. Sometimes it is. You have to drive in the efficiency range it is designed for.

Next, just because its a 6banger doesnt mean it gets good gas mileage. They get about the same or worse then an 8cyl. 230 miles/15gal tank=15.33 thats about average, and thats draining your tank DRY! I am guessing you more got 17-19mpg which is very good for this old of a car.

Octane ratings do not mean more power they mean how resistant to spontaneous combustion the fuel is. the low compression 2.8 and 3.1 have no need for high octane in stock form. Advancing the timing might result in a little more power but most likely the computer will pull it back to where it is programmed to be. These cars are a bit arcane computer wise but they like to be right where they are programmed to be.

since no one has mentioned it yet, allow me to be the first (if you arent familiar w/ it) in one of the stickys is the TomP tune up. do that before you do ANYTHING else. that been said........

1. anything other than regular unleaded (87 octane) is probably a waste unless you have a need for it. (modifications)

2. bypassing the AIR (smog) pump, i just ditched mine and didnt need any sort of delete pulley or anything, just ditched it. didnt notice any difference, it was just more crap in the way and it probably didnt work anymore anyway, lol.

3. like Dale said, no need for true duals. most on here are happy w/ the Dynomax catback, some sort of convertor (Catco), and Pacesetter headers. from heads to tailpipe, it might set you back $500, delivered from Summit. its been a few years since i bought all my stuff, but thats about what i was looking at.

4. I have an ASP underdrive pulley on mine...... whether it made a difference in power or not, who knows. honestly, id rather stick w/ the stock one and get my $60 back. not worth it IMO, others may say different.

theres my experience and thoughts on everything, hope it helps ya out!!!

I wouldnt buy headers again.... for any car. I kinda wish I didnt put them on this v8

i used to get 28-29 mpg out of my 2.8, a4, 3.42 rear, 275k mile 85 firebird on trips and about 26 mixed in town and highway. drove it every day for about 10 years.

my 88 gets terrible mileage w/ the same setup, but there is something wrong w/ it, too... (it got about 23-24 on a recent trip, but mixed is usually about 20-same as my old v6 non od fiero...)

Yep, as these cars get older mileage tends to go down. Wear and tear has a huge effect, bad tires, misalignment, old diff oil, bad trans fluid, old wheel bearing grease (or no grease!) and just about any wear in general has an effect because it makes the vehicle behave other than how it was designed to operate, and given how archaic our ecm's are they can't do much to compensate. Make sure the whole car's in good shape, not just the engine.

You had a freak car then. Thats steeper gears then it should have. I dont think anyone else has posted them kinda numbers.

The only time my old 6 got above 25mpg was 1 tank on a all highway trip with my s/o driving. I tryed to get better the whole rest of the trip... even on flatter ground. Couldnt get it again, neither could she.

Normally the car got 23'ish highway. High teens in town.

My grand prix, just filled up this am. All in town. 220 miles on 11.7 gallons.

I was normally getting 27-28mpg city on my 2.8. Also 3.42 gearing, automatic. 30mpg highway was normal.

I once calculated 40mpg on a trip over the mountains from Knoxville, TN to Asheville, NC. Don't ask me how, I wish I knew!

I've hit 30mpg driving from wyoming to minnesota... I went rougly 400miles and filled it up at 1/4 tank. That was with 165k on the car and being loaded down moving back from school.

My tune-up consisted of a new dist and rotor button and a set or iridium plugs and some cheapo wires. I joined and read the forum for about a week before I was convinced that the parts I had put on made my engine vibrate. I returned the parts for store credit and got all acdelco. Fixed it right up.

I changed all of my vacuum lines with silicone ones except for the one that goes from behind the intake and then goes down into the driver's side fender. What's that for? Where does it go?

I flushed my engine with gunk motor fluch (basically kerosene) and put osme nice royal purple in. I would really like to change the tranny and diff lubes but haven't gotten to it yet. I'm sure that will give me some mileage.

The wheel bearings probably don't need grease. The car only has 90,000 miles on it. Seems early to me. My last car didn't need wheel bearings until 330,000.

I have a new fuel filter but it's not delco, but i'm gong to get a delco one soon b/c my fuel pump seems way too loud.

When I got the car the breaks and shocks were totally shot so I got munroe to do all new rotors/drums, pads/shoes, shocks and wheel cylinders. yay $900! lol I think I was taken. Tires are new and properly inflated.

I couldn't find that underdrive pully on jegs. only one for a 3.4. How hard is that to install? Can I do it myself in the parking lot of my apartment? I have to be careful what I do around here. If they catch me working on my car in the lot I'll get a $200 fine.

I got an extra 4 MPG highway on my v8 ford after going with a K&N filter. And a little more throttle response too. What's your guys' opinion of the k&n for our car? I've noticed alot of old posts in the search argue in favor of paper filters.

I put K&N in my car but at the same time I gutted the airbox and added scoops to the underside of it for a ram air effect, and polished the TB.. I got some more throttle response up top, not too much to get excited over though. I would say go for the K&Ns at least.

On my 84' I average 12.5-15mpg on a full tune up, i have the carb so that doesnt help.

That is horrible for even a carb. I'd expect at least 20. I'm averaging 17 between city and highway driving.

Thats going a average of 70 mph with o/d. I get about 60miles to a 1/4 of a tank ave. if im lucky. And it has 94k, not sure about the motor though, i was told it isnt the original.

They need to be repacked every 30,000 miles.

I have a 4,000# brick of a 4x4 S10 blazer with a 3.4 TBI that gets 18-20 MPG in town. 22-23 MPG running a constant 70-75 MPH.

Thats about what my old s10 got. I got a little better on the interstate.

I bought the car from my brother. He says he consistantly got 28 mpg or more. So that's my goal - I'll have those bearings done this weekend.

The vac line you ask about goes to a big "bulb" that hangs under the battery tray on that side. Its mainly for cruise control and I think use of the ac/heater.

fuel filter doesnt have to be delco. The pump you should hear a bit, but it may be on its way out. See if anyone has a gauge to stick on your car and check the pressure. (gauge isnt exactly cheap)

900 for all that, installed, is not overly bad. How about alignment?

go to aspracing.com, I think you can order directly from them. Fairly easy to install. 13mm and...19mm? and rubber hammer.

A clean paper filter vs clean K&N they flow the same. Dirty for dirty, K&n flows better. But who wants to run a dirty filter? I just had oiled(non kn) filters gunk up my maf sensor giving bad readings. The gtp has a kn on it, but thats because I couldnt find a paper 4" cone. IMO, if you got 4mpg from it, that filter it replaced must have been bad dirty.

I know a good mechanic, he checked my fuel pressure for me. It's 17 psi - is that bad? I know a little about cars but not alot. I can do tune-ups and oil changed. Gear oil changes. I try and stay away from electrical and fuel b/c I don't want to blow myself up. lol Paper filter was new. The K&N just worked better.

17 is very bad. It should be low 40's IIRC.

Any chance another new fuel filter would fix this? I had run some additives through the fuel system and seafoam was one of them. Seafoam reccomends changing the fuel filter after using it in the gas tank b/c it works so well. My pruolator filter could be clogged. I've read alot of old posts where guys swear by one sort of fuel filter or another.

Also, my fuel injectors are stock. I've read alot of fuel injector posts and even started 2 of my own. I have never been able to figure out what to do about this. The general consensus is that the stock pingel injectors are garbage, the accel ones leak, the venom ones leak but they have great customers service and will continue to send you replacement injectors until you get a set that doesn't leak, and everyone says that ford svo injectors are the best. Thing is, no one knows where to find them or which ones we v6 guys need.

I would like to try a new filter and have it re-tested b/c GM wants like 400 for a fuel pump. Also, is there more mileage to be had if I got some new injectors?

I would try changing filter first. Likely not hurt a thing.

New fuel pump is 100 bux. But it takes a whole day and lots of cussing to install properly.

Change the fuel filter and a pump is like $100. I replaced mine in a day but I went the easy way and cut a hole in the floor. I also went to 3.1 injectors since one of my injectors got damaged when I pulled my head and the JY only had 3.1s. I run a little rich from them in the low RPMs but they woke up the topend a little bit.

http://www.thirdgen.org/1985-pontiac-firebird

standard gears for an 85-89 v6 a4 car. i think it was 90 they changed to 3.23 gears for the auto v6 cars...

i put about 25k on that car a year, and kept track (at the time). so i know the numbers were pretty consistent. it may even have been a little bit more b/c i had 255/60/15's on the back so the speedo was a little slow...
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i'm pretty surprised it's even running if it's really 17 psi...

1. I already changed them out for delco plugs. Not only did I get hella engine vibration with the other plugs, they also fowled out in about 500 miles. I still have the cheapo wires on there. I"m holding out for something aftermarket. Lets al put our 2 cents in on plug wires. I think there's some mileage to be gained by going to an 8mm wire. I've seen 8.5mm kits for sale on summit. I don't think going that high is needed unless you are running s modded engine.

2. Further, a mild cam upgrade might save some gas as well? I'm thinking about this one... if it fits. Everything you can buy seems to be for the 2.8.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...4&autoview=sku

This cam might also help me make better use of some better gas eh? I can afford to put whatever gas in it. I drive it 10 miles per week right now. lol

3. eprom tuning - one of the moderators gave me a great list of all the stuff I need to modify my computer. Problem is, I want to get it running like a champ before I start changing stuff. I'm not even sure if it's possible to tune for more gas mileage. I've only ever heard of tuning for worse. lol

These are two threads I started on the same topic: rebuilding a vehicle for maximum fuel efficiency.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/v6...my-beyond.html (Increasing fuel economy beyond OE spec?)
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/v6...y-economy.html (Rebuilding for reliability/economy)

Good plug wires go a long way. I can't remember what brand I'm using now, but they cost me $80 from the parts store. I think it's either AC Delco or Bosch. I used two sets of Taylor and both of them had the metal core contacts come out when pulling te plug wire off. I used the cam from the S10 Blazer's 2.8 from Delta Camshaft for $60. It's got a lot more torque and helps a lot with city driving.

Really? I've had the same set for a few years now and haven't had any problems with them (only good things).

Thanks for the input forkvoid. I'll check out your threads. I'm curious mostly about getting amazing highway miles as I do mostly highway driving. My last car got 40mpg and my current 270HP v8 daily gets 32 with only a little modification. Stock on it was 25 mpg highway.

You can tune for better mpg. But like many projects, it will get worse before it gets better... that is tell you learn what your doing.

I'm still learning mine and it is hair pulling at times when you cant get help.

17psi is pretty bad. Before you have the fuel pump replaced have the filter and pressure regulator replaced. Both are pretty cheap and easier to replace. Better plug wires never hurt, more spark means better ignition. The stock cam is actually pretty good, it's well matched to our engines. You probably wouldn't see much of a gain with that other cam, and might even lose a little power.

^The S10 cam gives some more low end torque but I'm pretty sure that you will loose more power up top which these motors already lack.

Actually, you'd be surprised. Mine pulls very strong in the low-end, but the torque curve keeps going through the range. It'll still put out some power even at 80mph.

Damn you guys get some crappy mileage for a v6, Hell I pull about 270 - 300 miles a tank IN TOWN driving with a V8. I was thinking about getting a V6 car for a daily driver but if I get worse gas mileage screw that.

Some of us are way worse off than others. As mentioned previously, some of us are getting ~27mpg city and 30+ highway. Others aren't so fortunate.

Most of these 'lil v6's have lived a rough life. Most people don't give a crap about these engines and run them into the ground.

I completely agree, almost every one I've found has been nearly destroyed. If they are well taken care of they should last and have better mileage than the 8cyl counterparts.

I know that mine wasn't taken car of before I got it. I get 17-19 mpg on average.

I hope I'm not entering into a taboo subject on here. I know camaro's are supposed to be american muscle cars and all. But what I"m wondering is, is there a good 4cyl. that I could drop in that fits? My 2.0 (93 Probe 330,000 miles) got 120HP stock and 35mpg. when I sold it, it got 40 mpg and 140 HP with a dragon weapon R intake and an MSD ignition coil, borla muffler, no cat. I wouldn't be opposed to a cavalier 4cyl or other chevy 4. I really just want it light weight and fuel efficient. Has anyone ever done a 4cyl dohc swap in?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-...spagenameZWDVW

This seems like a cool engine. I wonder if it would bolt up to a 700r4
Or if the motor mounts would even line up.

I have not seen it yet, but I have seen the Quad 4 Olds 2.3 liter (now Ecotec 2.4) swapped into the S-10, which is the closest cousin for this I have seen. There is a guy on the internet who sells a rear wheel drive conversion kit for the S-10 that uses a special bellhousing to mount the T5 behind it. He sells motor mount brackets as well so that it will just bolt in. If you follow this logic, you will just need to go to the machine shop and rotate your trans 17 degrees and have the new holes drilled and tapped to the bellhousing. Then mark and drill for the motor mount plates. The ECM swap/integration would be the same that the LS1/LT1 guys do when they jack into the 3rd gen harness. One wire at a time, carefully...

If you search cyberspace you will find it.

that's really cool. I'm glad that's an option. Seems like it would be really hard and possibly more expensive then re-building the v6. In case I come into some extra money tho, who is it that sells the conversion kits?

Ugh, why would you want to swap in a 4-banger?
Mileage maybe, but this isn't your daily driver is it? You can get more power and spend less with your current engine. V6 = fun with decent mileage; 4cyl = whiney lawnmower exhaust note and no fun. Just my oppinion.

Some 3rd gens came with a 4 cyl from the factory- the iron duke. I'd rather dunk my head in dog poo than put in a 4 cyl.