V6Discussion and questions about the base carbureted or MPFI V6's and the rare SFI Turbo V6.
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the difference in tank size is not tank size at all.
the diff comes from the volume that the efi pump assembly and tank baffles displace inside the tank
take a 5 gallon bucket and u can fill it with 5 gallons, now put 2 bricks inthe bucket and u can no longer get 5 gallons in it
thankfully I've never had to pull one, so I don't know for sure...
but the .7 could explain the fuel economy gresz-28 has in his LG4...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by project89
the difference in tank size is not tank size at all.
the diff comes from the volume that the efi pump assembly and tank baffles displace inside the tank
take a 5 gallon bucket and u can fill it with 5 gallons, now put 2 bricks inthe bucket and u can no longer get 5 gallons in it
well consider this, the L69 has not only a mechanical pump, but also a secondary pump in the tank, but is still supposed to have the 16.2 gallon tank...
why are you so opposed to the possibility of GM having some crazy idea of making the f-body tanks slightly different over 10 years?
plus there are 3 different fuel pumps that I know of in the f-bodies...
I will research this and come back with proof or shame to post...
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ok I'm back... and it does seem that the tanks ARE the same.. I find it funny that GM would account for the different displacement of the fuel pump in the gas tank... Project is correct...
but the .7 could explain the fuel economy gresz-28 has in his LG4...
Tank size has nothing to do with fuel economy.
I could get the same mpg with a tank that held 15.5 or 16.2, here's new math: 23x15.5=356.5. I could still go further, but I rarely go below half tank anyways, since the bottom half never runs out.
thankfully I've never had to pull one, so I don't know for sure...
but the .7 could explain the fuel economy gresz-28 has in his LG4...
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well consider this, the L69 has not only a mechanical pump, but also a secondary pump in the tank, but is still supposed to have the 16.2 gallon tank...
why are you so opposed to the possibility of GM having some crazy idea of making the f-body tanks slightly different over 10 years?
plus there are 3 different fuel pumps that I know of in the f-bodies...
I will research this and come back with proof or shame to post...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok I'm back... and it does seem that the tanks ARE the same.. I find it funny that GM would account for the different displacement of the fuel pump in the gas tank... Project is correct...
ive pulled my fair share of tanks out of all diff f-bodys they are all the same internally and externally,except that the fuel injected cars have a plastic sort of bucket/baffle in the bottom of the tank,and the fi cars also have the pump assembly inside the container on the sending unit.
if u took a fi tank and riped out the plastic bucket/baffle in the bottom,and instalkled a carb pickup/sender assembly u would have a stock carbed tank
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregsz-28
Tank size has nothing to do with fuel economy.
I could get the same mpg with a tank that held 15.5 or 16.2, here's new math: 23x15.5=356.5. I could still go further, but I rarely go below half tank anyways, since the bottom half never runs out.
mpg depends on the driver and conditions the car is driven in.
arguing mpg is pointless unless u take 2 cars witht he same driver down the same roads.
and on that note i can get over 31mpg with my turbo 6/auto and 4:10 rear gear.that of course means driving like a human and not tearassing away from stop signs and redlights etc
duh... I meant that with extra fuel you can go further... you were talking about miles per tank in your previous post...
don't treat me like a moron and I'll show you the respect you deserve...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by project89
ive pulled my fair share of tanks out of all diff f-bodys they are all the same internally and externally,except that the fuel injected cars have a plastic sort of bucket/baffle in the bottom of the tank,and the fi cars also have the pump assembly inside the container on the sending unit.
if u took a fi tank and riped out the plastic bucket/baffle in the bottom,and instalkled a carb pickup/sender assembly u would have a stock carbed ta
is it as much of a PITA to pull them as I hear?
Last edited by nd4spd42085; 01-26-2009 at 01:51 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
i cheat i dont drop the rear out of the car.
if u can get the rear of the car high enough alls u need to do is
take out the ds and remove the tq arm
unbolt the shocks and the rear brake line on the rear
and let the rear hang down and u can slide the tank out
pulling the gas tank is a pita the first time. After youve done it once you remember the tricks and its not has hard..... unless your dealing with rust.
Ive heard of a 2.5l running close to 1000hp. Of course, all that was stock was the block, and it ran on race fuel.
Why in the world do you all keep the V6's in these cars? It'd be so easy to swap a V-8 in, why don't you all?
If my 3.1 V6 dies it would be much easier to swap in a 3.4. For me, I would not install any V8 powerplant that isn't a LTX or LSX and those are not easy engine swaps. No swapping in V8 suspension either sticking with the 3.4.
i cheat i dont drop the rear out of the car.
if u can get the rear of the car high enough alls u need to do is
take out the ds and remove the tq arm
unbolt the shocks and the rear brake line on the rear
and let the rear hang down and u can slide the tank out
I'm cheating even more. I need to unbolt the fuel line from the pump to put hard line in (I replaced mine w/ rubber last year when I had that leak) so I'm going to cut an access panel. doesn't seem that hard, just need to be careful not to cut the tank.
Well i like my V6 because it never dies unlike my friend 305 i had my car overheat 3 time flooded 4 times oo and word of advice these birds don't float
and i never had to rebuild it well i may have to one day but now im running a NOS kit on it between 75 and 100 shot . and my friends 305 overheat once and wrap the heads and blown a gasket lol but me im still going
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Well i like my V6 because it never dies unlike my friend 305 i had my car overheat 3 time flooded 4 times oo and word of advice these birds don't float
and i never had to rebuild it well i may have to one day but now im running a NOS kit on it between 75 and 100 shot . and my friends 305 overheat once and wrap the heads and blown a gasket lol but me im still going
your friends 305 is a pile o' junk, i have over heated a 454 to the point that the aftermarket gauges and the factory ones were pegged, and drove it for a few miles that way, ran fine, no oil burning problems or anything.....when i first got my camaro i was all the time overheating it with no problems. i will say stick to under 100 on the nitrous (dont call it NOS thats a brand name) sorry i hate that lol.
anyway this looks like one big you know what match now, it will me locked soon, enjoy it while you can
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I laugh whenever I hear people say there isn't that big a handling difference between the v6's & v8's. There is. Another 200lbs off the nose makes a big difference, especially when the a$$ isn't swinging around.
I laugh whenever I hear people say there isn't that big a handling difference between the v6's & v8's. There is. Another 200lbs off the nose makes a big difference, especially when the a$$ isn't swinging around.
Im not saying there isn't a handling difference, I'm saying I like the way my V8 camaro handles. It oversteers a bit, the *** end likes to break loose, and I've learned to drive it that way, I love it now.
@89RS_82Z - I wouldn't say this is a pissing match, no one has yet to say a V6 or V8 is better.
your friends 305 is a pile o' junk, i have over heated a 454 to the point that the aftermarket gauges and the factory ones were pegged, and drove it for a few miles that way, ran fine, no oil burning problems or anything.....when i first got my camaro i was all the time overheating it with no problems. i will say stick to under 100 on the nitrous (dont call it NOS thats a brand name) sorry i hate that lol.
anyway this looks like one big you know what match now, it will me locked soon, enjoy it while you can
well have u ever flood a engine with water 4 times lol that would hydrolock some engines on the frist go ? to the point where water was flow form the tailpipe and sorry about the nos /nitrous im the new generation of driver driving old school cars and my friend just had the motor built aluminum block and heads but was sit in traffic and the fan relay blown out lol guess he should stick with the flex fan
that poor 454
im going to go to 150 shot in the summer .on a stock engine 250hp to the wheels hahahah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecialK47150
Im not saying there isn't a handling difference, I'm saying I like the way my V8 camaro handles. It oversteers a bit, the *** end likes to break loose, and I've learned to drive it that way, I love it now.
@89RS_82Z - I wouldn't say this is a pissing match, no one has yet to say a V6 or V8 is better.
"a V6 is better" there u go
Last edited by firebird1992; 01-26-2009 at 11:04 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I hydro locked my v6 once. I learned a 2" lowered camaro cant go thru water like a ford taurus.
Got it home, pulled the plugs, cranked and shot water out like a water hose. Let it sit over night, cleaned the plugs, put it back in, and away she went.
I dont drive the v8 in the rain!
As for handling, everyone likes something different. What may be perfect for one, is way wrong for another. Most of all, everyone gets use to what they have and learns its limits.
Im not saying there isn't a handling difference, I'm saying I like the way my V8 camaro handles. It oversteers a bit, the *** end likes to break loose, and I've learned to drive it that way, I love it now.
@89RS_82Z - I wouldn't say this is a pissing match, no one has yet to say a V6 or V8 is better.
Yea, and it depends on what you like to do with it. I like carving corners & roadracing so having the rear stay planted is what I need. Some people like letting loose and drifting, which is where a v8 & a loose rear shines. Makes me wonder how the whole drifting fad started with ricemobiles.
Yea, and it depends on what you like to do with it. I like carving corners & roadracing so having the rear stay planted is what I need. Some people like letting loose and drifting, which is where a v8 & a loose rear shines. Makes me wonder how the whole drifting fad started with ricemobiles.
LOLOL @ ricemobiles...
I've wondered the same myself... you would almost think that drifting woulda started with cars that would actually do it WITHOUT having to beat the piss out of em...
ricemobiles got into drifting because they can break the tires loose. using the ebrake or a heavily (very extentively, mind you) modded car can break the tires loose almost like a camaro because of the peaky "torque curve" if you can call their engines a torque producing motor. but anyhow, the sudden onset of boost because of some lame engines is pretty much what does it. the rotary engines are a great example of peaky.
i've read thru this thread and not one reason makes sense to me to keep a V6, other than just being "unique". if thats your thing then go for it but i'll gladly keep my V8
I laugh whenever I hear people say there isn't that big a handling difference between the v6's & v8's. There is. Another 200lbs off the nose makes a big difference, especially when the a$$ isn't swinging around.
With the aluminum FWD heads, your motors weighs a mere 340lbs minus the A/C compressor, P/S pump and ALT -- that's over 300lb weight savings
small block with aluminum heads/intake and minus all that crap is in the 475-500lb range. Only a difference of 100-200 lbs. LS1 is the same weight difference just about. A nice difference but then again its not as huge as some claim
big blocks are in the 600-700 lb range. Iron smallies are in the high 500's.
Most guys here with any performance ideals in mind do have aluminum heads of some sort.
besides that, the weight issue can and will be overcome by more power. run more spring and more rubber to aid in handling. There are many many quick handling road cars out there and they have V8's too. Again i just dont see the point in a V6 other than uniqueness
Not everyone has the time, money or inclination to do a V-8 swap. That has been mentioned a number of times above. There are a many reasons why the V-6 is perfectly acceptable as an engine - handling, economy, reliability. I personally have had no problem getting over 450,000 km on an original 2.8L V-6 engine.
Not to be offensive to those who have V-8's, but why would I personally want a car capable of 12 - 14 sec when I have to drive 160 km round trip to work and back?
If the whole purpose of this thread is to bash the V-6, then I would respectively suggest to the moderators that the thread be as I am not personally seeing much that is in the way of constructive coming out of it.
Not to be offensive to those who have V-8's, but why would I personally want a car capable of 12 - 14 sec when I have to drive 160 km round trip to work and back?
Why not have a 14sec V6 with the gas mileage and weight savings?
A V8 is a better starting base, but v6's are fun. I built a turbo kit for a Corsica now doing 12's and gets ~25 MPG. (and you can get groceries/kids in it )
Right now the current V6 record (AFAIK) is 8.98 seconds, just how fast do you need to go?
Why not have a 14sec V6 with the gas mileage and weight savings?
A V8 is a better starting base, but v6's are fun. I built a turbo kit for a Corsica now doing 12's and gets ~25 MPG. (and you can get groceries/kids in it )
Right now the current V6 record (AFAIK) is 8.98 seconds, just how fast do you need to go?
8.98? I'm sorry, I was watching NHRA drag racing a year or two ago, and I didn't see the times, but at the 1/4 4 bangers were over 200mph, so a 6 should be able to beat that.
8.98? I'm sorry, I was watching NHRA drag racing a year or two ago, and I didn't see the times, but at the 1/4 4 bangers were over 200mph, so a 6 should be able to beat that.
V8s are great, but keep in mind a V6 is still an f-body. as that's been said before. I wanted a V8 camaro, but a V6 camaro is better stock than putting that same money into a car like my cavalier. like I said before, you go with whats cheaper and easily available. for me, my engine was free and there are tons of 6s in junkyards.
There isn't as much interest in v6's as there is in v8's or sadly 4cyls. V6's are kinda the redheaded stepchild of the performance world. More interest & $$$ and you could surely push any powerplant beyond the records any other has attained.
As for reasons to keep a v6- economy, handling, uniqueness, the cost of a v8 swap, bragging rights when you spank a v8 . All good reasons for us to enjoy what we have.
I guess, i still dont see it. you can get over 25mpg with a proper tuned v8 making more power so i dont see economy being a huge issue. LSx stuff for sure is the way to go (buddy's C5 makes near 400whp and runs mid high 11's and gets 30mpg easily) but even old school fuel injection can get it done.
For one thing i have never heard a good sounding american V6... V8's however sound good for the most part. I'd take a better sounding slower V8 over a faster poor sounding V6. Thats just me
Handing, eh, not so much, its also how you drive the car. I like how my V8 camaro handles, and I've taken quite a few 4 banger ricers on curvy roads, just because I've gone out and just slid the read end for hours on end for fun, so I know how to drive it like that.
I once was young as well, and you guys take forums and your cars too seriously. Quit the internet racing, it's bad for your health.
The 305 is a dog, just like it was when I was driving it in 1992, and the TPI can't touch a modern day V6 (nevermind the newest generation of SBC's). Admit it, for the day, they were fast, but to be honest, they are extremely slow by today's standards.
Anybody else remember seeing a brand new 1985 IROC, looking under the hood and asking where the carb was?
To the yougin's thinking their car is a "muscle car" with bolt-ons (if you're lucky) is fast, well good e too shoes for you, but you are posting on a technical forum in the V6 section and talking about how cool you are . When you make 2hp per cubic inch, or reach over 100% efficiency on a N/A motor, OR even build something capabale of making single digit times, only then is there even an argument.
Enough bench racing, go work on your cars.
Vetruck, I recognize you I've always like your subtile hints with good ideas. I still suggest the V-dub gaskets to the iron head crowd
I have no side for V6 vs V8. My current personal record for a V8 is 10's, and V6 is 12's. Neither car I own, just made faster. Both have power adders, both are fast, were a lot of fun to build, and get some kinda looks at the track ...
I have nothing against either myself, and I'm not saying that my car is the end all be all, its a stock 305 TBI, its a pos lol, but I can drive it halfway decently, which is better than most kids, and I can take it down a curvy back road pretty quickly.
And I may be crazy, but its fun, and they're back roads nobody is ever on, and I normally go at night and flip my headlights off before every curve for a second to see if anyone is coming.
Alright, so this is what I'm getting for the reasons of keeping V6s
I'm not saying that I look to go out and spank on v8's (although many people on the v6 board do) just that it's alot of fun when you do. Especially when the person you just spanked asks to see what's under the hood and it's a bone-stock 2.8! LOL.
I'm not biased to v6's or v8's either, torq is fun and so is handling. I could swap in an LS1 and have the best of both worlds but weight bias still won't be quite as good and there's a $2k pricetag. That's $2k I could put into a v6 and still have better handling and economy with nearly as much power.
plain and simple i have a blast^^^^^^^
not bad for a few hundred bucks and only 9 psi ( i should add that the car wieghed in at a hefty 3422 for both of those runs)
cant wait to see what it does on the new 67mm turbo at 28 psi
I have nothing against either myself, and I'm not saying that my car is the end all be all, its a stock 305 TBI, its a pos lol, but I can drive it halfway decently, which is better than most kids, and I can take it down a curvy back road pretty quickly.
And I may be crazy, but its fun, and they're back roads nobody is ever on, and I normally go at night and flip my headlights off before every curve for a second to see if anyone is coming.
Alright, so this is what I'm getting for the reasons of keeping V6s
but me im still going 
.on a stock engine 
250hp to the wheels hahahah
as I am not personally seeing much that is in the way of constructive coming out of it. 
)
. All good reasons for us to enjoy what we have. 
more open ones like more power 
