V6Discussion and questions about the base carbureted or MPFI V6's and the rare SFI Turbo V6.
Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!
Hey guys have had this car for awhile. Wrecked about 4 years ago and its been sitting ever since. has 70xxx miles on it, and before I wrecked it it was having some idling issues. I am either going to sell it or put a turbo in it but not sure which one. What kind of work am I going to need to do to this car before I can throw a turbo in it. It has sat for a good part of its life, been wrecked twice and sat about 4years after both wrecks. Ran pretty good when I had it then just ran into some problems where not all 6 cylinders were firing properly. Obviously going to need to figure out what that is about but what else does this car need to beef it up for some good HP with the turbo. I don't want super expensive but I don't want lame *** turbo and power either. So thats it what can you guys tell me to do to this thing.
It will work but trust me dude dont just jump into a turbo build. Its more invovled then you think. Best advice given to me on this site is to first do bolt on's then do suspension and other drive train components. Then learn how to tune the computer or have someone that is willing to help you intensivly and do it RIGHT! Then and only then go for the turbo route.
....but if you want to not listin to me and just jump into it thats ok...some people like to go that route...heres a link to follow on pretty much everything you need to know...
If you dont find everythign in there then go and do a search (yes i know the search has gotten a pain to use but it DOES work)...there is ALOT of info on how to go the turbo route.
...oh ya btw if your going to skip all the stuff I recomended you do at least get that motor to run in top shape first. Its going to be a PITA to try and get the turbo to run right if the motor is misfiring and everything else. The motor should run at least as good as factory if not better then go for the turbo.
I say all this cause i wanted to go the turbo route and was pricing it all out but have relized that I need to stop lieing to myself and just spend that money and do an LS1 swap(maybe in the future upgrade that to a turbo ls1). Thats another story tho...
__________________ 91 Firebird-75,XXX-3.1L Mods so far: Custom air intake, K&N Filter, high-flow Magnaflow cat, 2.5 cat-back Super Turbo Dynomax dual out the rear, alpine head unit, custom box and amp rack, two 12in DB3 subs and two profile AP1000M amps, Kentik HC800 power cell, memphis front and back speakers, Compustar alarm system, Gtech PRO SS meter, Autometer A-Pillar guages, 16in GTA style rims w/ 245-50r16 tires, Directional treads in front, straights out back.
Upcoming Mods: Poly Bushings, LCA's, Panhard bar, SFC's, Wonderbar, Eibach Pro Kit, Koni Yellows, Front end rebuild kit, LS1 swap w/ 6 speed man. tranny, Aluminum Driveshaft, Limited Slip rear end, Shift kit, Window Tint, Grant Wheel, Autometer in dash gauges, Upgrade subs and do all componet speakers, New Paint will be the last thing to do.
Thanks for the post.
I do want to first get the car running in tip top shape. I am going to do TomP's major tuneup.
1. After that any other suggestions with what to do with it to make it turbo ready?
2. Also along with a compression check is there anything else I should do to make sure my engine is turbo ready?
As far as for real power I know I need to do the LS1 swap but this car has been wrecked in the past, it is 2 colors, and if I was going to do the LS1 swap I would do it on a car that wasn't automatic so that just doesn't make since to me to do that. Plus I am going to use this to drive to work frequently, I drive 40 miles highway to work 80miles round trip, I dont want to get the 17mpg highway the LS1 offers, I want to get the upper 20's low 30's the 3.1 offers, but still get some power so the car can get out of its own way, with a turbo.
Also I am a father of 2 and a married man, if any of you are familiar with this, cash is not something I have alot of so the LS1 swap is just about out with that.
Once again mtwlkn thankyou for your post and I am going to make sure this engine is in top shape and if you have some ideas on what mods will further accent the turbo that would be great, let me know.
Before you jump into the turbo build make sure you have made some major decisions before you start. First engine management type, personally I ran a MS2 on my car using the Ford EDIS ignition but a FMU will work for most applications as well. Next what will you do about manifolds and piping to the turbo? Where will you put the turbo? Unless you are willing to gut your engine bay there are very few options. Will the system be intercooled? Once you have the basic layout of the system done the rest will slowly fall into place. One part will dictate another and soon your $5000.00+ into a build and have nothing on the car. The biggest question is how much power or boost you want. Will your stock engine internals be enough? I can tell you mine were not.... cracked the block and exited a piston into a neighboring cylinder. I suggest a book "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell the owner of Bell Intercoolers.
My thought was to go with the turbo at the top of the forums.
Place the turbo in the engine bay using a T04e
using the volvo intercooler, external waste gate, BOV all from ebay.
Probably go with bigger injectors and a 6:1 or maybe 8:1 fmu, daves12secv6 seems to think you can do plenty with that. I believe he is running up to 18 psi with that set up which is pretty impressive, MS2 seems like too much for me to be honest, I won't be that into it where I would want to do custom tuning at first.
Planning on customizing the current exhaust to do it, may be difficult but my wife's grandfather shop teacher long time of custom welding and that stuff so hopefully can offer some help with that part of it.
Also as far as boost was going to start wiht low 6-8psi and see what happens, beef up the internals if I like what I get and go from there.
Like I said I am not looking for v8 power here, but if I can get this car so that when I get on the highway grandma isnt passing me on the right that would be great, and once again like before, on its best day this car is only worth 500 bucks, and thats if I sell it to a sucker 16 year old. So let me have some fun and learn on the way alittle and see what I come up with. Now ofcourse by fun I don't mean blow the thing up. I mean learn about the engine and turbo's and what I can do to make the engine more equiped for more boost.
I drive 40 miles highway to work 80miles round trip, I dont want to get the 17mpg highway the LS1 offers, I want to get the upper 20's low 30's the 3.1 offers
LS1s actually get close to 30mpg highway in stock form with the 6speed
Actually, dave ran his engine for a bit on 28(!) psi with stock internals. I thought that was nuts and asked him about it. Apparently its fine if the tune is dead on.
Glad to hear of another turbo build. Take it slow, spend slower, and don't give up!
Lots of turbo setups have been done cheap, you just need to make sure you have the basic neccecities. Intercooling (esp. over 6lbs of boost), fmu, tuning, larger injectors and getting your motor in tip-top shape beforehand are mandatory. Like mtwlkn122 said learn to tune FIRST. Ask firstfirebird why and he'll be happy to explain, LOL. As far as exhaust routing & turbo placement I'd go with what everyone does and mount the turbo infront of the motor and switch the exhaust manifolds, then fab up the rest of the piping cheap out of old exhaust tubing.
__________________ 1985 Camaro LB8 smoothed & balanced to perfection. Abscence of excess is excellence.
________________________________________________________
Increasingly I find the difference between a 'fact' and an oppinion is the number of people who believe it.
I suggest a book "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell the owner of Bell Intercoolers.
Another book to look into is "Street Turbocharging" from HPBooks. I picked it up from Borders for about $20. Lots of great info from design and theory to choosing a turbo, intercooler, water/methanol injection, fabrication, etc...
sounds good, gonna work on tuning the thing up, is TomP's tuneup a good place to start, or are there some more things that need done to make sure the engine is in top shape.
Also an off question about car inspection/emissions. Will a custom turbo pass? Or is there extra crap I'll have to do to do that as well.
thanks
Mitch
As long as the emissions stuff is still there & working it shouldn't matter.
__________________ 1985 Camaro LB8 smoothed & balanced to perfection. Abscence of excess is excellence.
________________________________________________________
Increasingly I find the difference between a 'fact' and an oppinion is the number of people who believe it.
sounds good, gonna work on tuning the thing up, is TomP's tuneup a good place to start, or are there some more things that need done to make sure the engine is in top shape.
Also an off question about car inspection/emissions. Will a custom turbo pass? Or is there extra crap I'll have to do to do that as well.
thanks
Mitch
It depends on your local laws.
In most places the installation of a turbo is technically an "illegal" modification, since it changes both the intake and exhaust systems, from the way the OEM had intended for them to be.
Some places speciify "pre-catalytic sonverter modifications to the exhaust system", as being illegal, but allowing "Cat-back" modifications. This would also mean that a turbo would need to be installed post-cat, AKA "Remote mount" turbo systems.
In any turbo system the intake path would need to be changed though and could be a cause for failing a visual inspection.
Your best bet is to find out what your local laws are before performing any modifications.
Actually, dave ran his engine for a bit on 28(!) psi with stock internals. I thought that was nuts and asked him about it. Apparently its fine if the tune is dead on.
Glad to hear of another turbo build. Take it slow, spend slower, and don't give up!
boost does not kill the engine,a bad tune and detonation does
my car has seen some extremly high boost levels and ive never had it break anything,and ill be looking ot puch the limit even more comming this next spring,took a break this year to work on a dirt track car.
i highly suggest u go with a megasquirt or other means of computer tunning wether it be piggy back or tunning the stock ecm,u will get much much more out of the car and setup that way
ps dont use ebay oil feed and drian lines they are garbage
__________________ PRO FAB ENGINEERING - comming soon turbokits, supercharger kits, directport nitrous, cyl head porting, custom intakes, suspension parts ++ much more FORMER 60* V6 FBODY RECORD HOLDER 13.008@104.65@9 psi
its the same turbo in both ads, they arent really 57 trims they are like 48/50 trims, but they work out great as an all around turbo, decent quick spool for street driving and move enough air to get a car into the mid 12's
__________________ PRO FAB ENGINEERING - comming soon turbokits, supercharger kits, directport nitrous, cyl head porting, custom intakes, suspension parts ++ much more FORMER 60* V6 FBODY RECORD HOLDER 13.008@104.65@9 psi
LS1s actually get close to 30mpg highway in stock form with the 6speed
^^THANK YOU!...why doesnt anyone listin to me that those motors make good mileage AND good hp/tq numbers throught out may i say a broad rpm range(im slightly bi est on the ls1 motor now as ive been driving my buddys 02 camaro ss alot as he lost his licence but doesnt want to leave the car alone lol!)
MitcherNerf it sounds like you have a decent knowledge of what you want to at least do with your car. My suggestion for you right now is to download tunerpro rt or something similar and get an aldl cable. Its a good idea to get a feel for the whole tuneing process on the car before you jump into a turbo build. If you have never touched "the inside" of your computer(or any car computer) then i highly recomend getting that down first. Believe it or not but there is some power to be made just by changing your stock tune to better fit your car and driveing style. Dont be fooled by those over the counter 20hp gain BS chips they try to sell you. Check out the DIY PROM section and read through the stickies. There is ALOT of info that you will need to read through.
