My '86 2.8 Turbo Camaro Build, This Is Going To Be Fun.... - Page 2 - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

bl85c · 10-21-2009, 11:50 PM

I never did like having to remove 1/2 the intake manifold to get the valvecovers off, but I still prefer that to all the fwd crap I work on every day.

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project89 · 10-27-2009, 08:16 PM

anything rob?

Street Lethal · 10-27-2009, 08:29 PM

Engine is out of the car, intake is off, heads are off, cam is out. The crank is getting pulled out either tomorrow (I'm off) or this weekend. Cousin kept pounding it into my head that the stock setup would be an absolute waste, so I'm going to start on the heads and order a camshaft very soon. If your biz is setup already, lemme know, because I'll drop everything off w/the car, and will order the cam through you. By the way, are you coming with us on Novermber 7th to MIR....?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PwL26eXiJM

project89 · 10-27-2009, 08:35 PM

u wanan send me up the topend? and ill take care of it for ya, gimmie all the specs on what ur gonna run and ill setup a cam for ya as well to.

i doubt i can goto mir, in the middle of finilazing a deal on a shop were renting so i dont have to work out of the garge, its about the size of my uncles place and comes with 2 lifts 2 lathes 1 bridgeport 3 welders , and a bunch of other stuff

edit

just to give u an idea of how cheap it is up here, the place is 600 bucks a month

Street Lethal · 10-27-2009, 08:40 PM

The price for forged internals are very cheap compared to what I'm used to. I don't want to have to worry about the bottom end once everything is done, thats why I'm redoing it now while I have the chance. The car ran fine this whole time, but I don't know where its been before I got it, so why even risk it. Gonna slap the T-76 on it, so I would want you to go hogwild with both the heads and cam....

project89 · 10-27-2009, 08:43 PM

u dont need anythign forged for it, u will break the block long before u break a rod or crank.

go order up some arp rod bolts and some main/headstuds. buy good pistons if u want though, ur t76 is t6 flanges aint it?

Street Lethal · 10-27-2009, 08:48 PM

Break the block lol? But, <cough>, I don't run regular water in the winter....

Yes, T6...

project89 · 10-27-2009, 08:53 PM

u need a t4 hotside for that turbo or expect spool around 6k rpms

Street Lethal · 10-27-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project89

u need a t4 hotside for that turbo or expect spool around 6k rpms

I know, but I'll worry about that when the headers start getting welded....

project89 · 10-27-2009, 09:00 PM

well there is always nitrous lol, id trade it off on the turboforums for somthing with a better hotside though, im sure u could get a stright up trade on a t4 flanged t76 overthere or a bw s400

Street Lethal · 10-27-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project89

well there is always nitrous lol, id trade it off on the turboforums for somthing with a better hotside though, im sure u could get a stright up trade on a t4 flanged t76 overthere or a bw s400....

I thought about selling it, but I also have that 355-SBC just sitting in the garage waiting for something to go into. Could prolly make a good deal for someone wanting a complete 355-SBC w/T76, but with my luck, I'll come across something else in the coming months then kick myself for selling it. We'll see though....

Street Lethal · 10-27-2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bl85c

I never did like having to remove 1/2 the intake manifold to get the valvecovers off, but I still prefer that to all the fwd crap I work on every day.

Yeah, none of my V6 bretheren warned me about that lol. I'm looking at the valve covers before I started the first side, and I'm saying to myself; don't tell me I have to pull the damn intake off. Here I am cursing the TPI's for all these years about pulling off the plenum just to get to the freaking injectors, and now I'm pulling off the plenum just to get to the valve covers....

bl85c · 10-27-2009, 10:35 PM

LOL.

Project89's right, the block will split in the lifter valley before anything else does under the right conditions. Compare 3x00 blocks and rwd stuff and you'll notice the nice fat braces cast into the valley in 3x00 stuff. Circle track racers will crack 'em after quite a while. Not immediate but 30+ races at 7k for a few hours takes it's toll. I'd be inclined to believe that it has something to do with the 123456 firing order. At the right rpm the block will ring like a damn bell without an offset firing order.

project89 · 10-27-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bl85c

LOL.

Project89's right, the block will split in the lifter valley before anything else does under the right conditions. Compare 3x00 blocks and rwd stuff and you'll notice the nice fat braces cast into the valley in 3x00 stuff. Circle track racers will crack 'em after quite a while. Not immediate but 30+ races at 7k for a few hours takes it's toll. I'd be inclined to believe that it has something to do with the 123456 firing order. At the right rpm the block will ring like a damn bell without an offset firing order.

well its deff the over time thing,while circle track guys arent putting out the kind of power a turbo motor is they are turning very high rpms for long periods

i dont thingk it be a problem in a street/drag race car as ur not gonan be winding up on the street and the track is only 10-13 second slong at high rpm.

hell i dont think anyone has been reving into the 8.500 rpm range like i have yet, and i havent shown any issues in the block yet but im sure after extended usage with those high revs it will

i might look into building valley braces/girdles like they do for the ford 5.0 guys

i see one probblem though turbo motors make alot of dam tq

hell look at mine on that lean *** tune with ignition problems its making over 400ftlbs at the crank

bl85c · 10-27-2009, 11:25 PM

Apparently certain mid-90's 3100's are prone to cracking even at stock power levels as well. Some castings are just plain weak and can't be helped. I'm considering valley girdles too, I'm using a '94 3.4 block. Different casting but I'm not taking chances.

Six_Shooter · 10-27-2009, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bl85c

Apparently certain mid-90's 3100's are prone to cracking even at stock power levels as well. Some castings are just plain weak and can't be helped.

This is news to me.

I have yet to see a 660 block split, even when abused.

I have seen quite a number of Ford 5.0L/302 blocks split right in half though, when trying to get more power out of them.

firstfirebird · 10-28-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

This is news to me.

I have yet to see a 660 block split, even when abused.

I have seen quite a number of Ford 5.0L/302 blocks split right in half though, when trying to get more power out of them.

I have seen one. Midget car, 3.4 with 3400 heads, ITB's, 15:1, 340hp, shifting at 6500.

Guy on 60* stretches the mains pretty consistently with his TT 3.4/3400 10 second X-11. He was looking to get custom caps made, but decided it was cheaper for him to just buy another block if it happens again (his thought was the mains cost 4blocks haha).

Rob, easiest way to get the valve covers off is to use a small reverse torx and pull the studs with the nut still on them, I have never even tried to pull them off those long studs.

Street Lethal · 10-28-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstfirebird

Rob, easiest way to get the valve covers off is to use a small reverse torx and pull the studs with the nut still on them, I have never even tried to pull them off those long studs....

Haha, now you tell me lol. I had a set of chrome Edelbrock valve covers from awhile back for these engines that I sold, but will need to re-purchase. Those stock studs will never see the light of day w/the new covers, thats for sure....

project89 · 10-28-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Street Lethal

Haha, now you tell me lol. I had a set of chrome Edelbrock valve covers from awhile back for these engines that I sold, but will need to re-purchase. Those stock studs will never see the light of day w/the new covers, thats for sure....

lmao i replaced all my studs with bolts when i put my motor together.

rob i think i got a trade for you, my 3.1 crank/rods/pistons for ur 2.8 crank if its in really good condition.

im building a 3.4 with the 2.8 crank and a 6.0 rod so i dont have to use custom pistons,gonna end up using the 3.4 dohc piston with the tops flycut

for a 9.7-1cr 3.0L motor

Street Lethal · 10-28-2009, 02:43 PM

I take it your running an alky setup

? You can have the crank if you want it, but I still have to take it out though. Been messing around with the MS-II all day; location, preparing the harness, etc. There is a fresh 3.1 w/knock sensor in the junkyard out of an F-Body w/low miles for cheap, would also save me the time in drilling and tapping for the sensor. I'll send you some pics of the crank journals when I remove it from the block. Two things, what is involved w/the 3.5 heads and intake swap, and is it possible to clock the power steering pump closer toward the water pump like the SBC....?

project89 · 10-28-2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Street Lethal

I take it your running an alky setup

? You can have the crank if you want it, but I still have to take it out though. Been messing around with the MS-II all day; location, preparing the harness, etc. There is a fresh 3.1 w/knock sensor in the junkyard out of an F-Body w/low miles for cheap, would also save me the time in drilling and tapping for the sensor. I'll send you some pics of the crank journals when I remove it from the block. Two things, what is involved w/the 3.5 heads and intake swap, and is it possible to clock the power steering pump closer toward the water pump like the SBC....?

3500 heads wont fit the 2.8/3.1 block

if u talk to paul he will show u what pump to grab out the junkyard that has a external resivor, that will bolt on
if i were u i would put the ms were i put minejust tuck it up a lil higher

9.7-1 wont be much higher then what i was running

Street Lethal · 10-28-2009, 03:17 PM

.... so what do the 60 degree guys normally do then, 3400 heads w/LIM, in conjunction w/the 3500 UMI? I mean, I might as well just get an entire 3.5 then, for that matter. I'm exploring other options now that the stock engine was pulled, I mean, I'm keeping it 60 degree V6, but I want the best flow possible. Opinions?

project89 · 10-28-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Street Lethal

.... so what do the 60 degree guys normally do then, 3400 heads w/LIM, in conjunction w/the 3500 UMI? I mean, I might as well just get an entire 3.5 then, for that matter. I'm exploring other options now that the stock engine was pulled, I mean, I'm keeping it 60 degree V6, but I want the best flow possible. Opinions?

yeah pretty much, r&b has some nice 3400 stuff in the yard

project89 · 10-28-2009, 07:04 PM

hey rob check this out im starting to draw up a new version of the pizza box for use with the tpi tb

this is an unfinished render, i should have it fully drawn up tommorow though

after this i will be doing and eaton m90 adapter

firstfirebird · 10-28-2009, 08:56 PM

The 3500 chambers are bigger than the bore of a 2.8/3.1.

If you were to go to a FWD motor, just put a complete 3500 in. Now that I have a flow bench, I am amazed at those heads for sure. With just the right touches they are comparable to 3900 heads, and smoke the ported 3800 heads we just wrapped up.

With a lot of work the 3400 heads can flow as much or more than the 3500 though, but why make more work - too bad you are staying with the 3.1/2.8 bore...

bl85c · 10-28-2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project89

im building a 3.4 with the 2.8 crank and a 6.0 rod so i dont have to use custom pistons,gonna end up using the 3.4 dohc piston with the tops flycut

for a 9.7-1cr 3.0L motor

That's what I'm doing with mine when I decide to turbo it, except I'm using a 3500 crank.

Same stroke with larger rod dowels.

Sambo '87 · 10-28-2009, 10:38 PM

I have an 87 2.8L Camaro and my speedo only goes to 85, and there is no tach... Did you switch yours out? or did you get it like that? because I want to put that same one you have in your car in mine.

project89 · 10-28-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sambo '87

I have an 87 2.8L Camaro and my speedo only goes to 85, and there is no tach... Did you switch yours out? or did you get it like that? because I want to put that same one you have in your car in mine.

he swaped in a cluster out of an iroc, its a bolt in deal except the tachometer will not read corectly with the v6 engine

Street Lethal · 10-29-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project89

9.7-1 wont be much higher then what i was running....

.... I know what you were running, and it was nowhere near that!

Street Lethal · 10-29-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sambo '87

I have an 87 2.8L Camaro and my speedo only goes to 85, and there is no tach... Did you switch yours out? or did you get it like that? because I want to put that same one you have in your car in mine....

I retained the stock cluster, but I took it apart and swapped in just the speedometer from an Iroc cluster. Was going to swap the entire cluster itself, but the rest of the Iroc cluster was not accurate, as well as missing a few things. If you can get your hands on just the speedo, grab the corresponding speed sensor that goes with it (behind the cluster)....

Street Lethal · 10-29-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstfirebird

too bad you are staying with the 3.1/2.8 bore...

I kind of deterred a little from when I first started this project, but yes, I'm staying with the 2.8/3.1 block. Was considering an entirely different V6, but I have a 355 w/TPI and tranny just sitting here, and it would defeat the purpose to go with another engine. Gonna see how much abuse this little engine can take, and when she blows, and I'm sure she will, the V8 will be swapped right in. Dave, the 3.1 block from R&B is mine, I just have to tell Warren when I'm coming to get it. You can still have the 2.8 crank if you want it. I'll also throw in that spring tensioner for the tranny detent cable, too...

project89 · 10-29-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Street Lethal

I kind of deterred a little from when I first started this project, but yes, I'm staying with the 2.8/3.1 block. Was considering an entirely different V6, but I have a 355 w/TPI and tranny just sitting here, and it would defeat the purpose to go with another engine. Gonna see how much abuse this little engine can take, and when she blows, and I'm sure she will, the V8 will be swapped right in. Dave, the 3.1 block from R&B is mine, I just have to tell Warren when I'm coming to get it. You can still have the 2.8 crank if you want it. I'll also throw in that spring tensioner for the tranny detent cable, too...

i have a converter for you, ill have to call down the shop so u can pick it up.

its a restalled stocker if u want it, stalls about 2,800-3k

entrig00 · 10-29-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Street Lethal

Price is good Dave, so if you part with it, I'll buy it. Just wanted to go on record and say that these engines are the worst engines that GM ever came up with. Took me a awhile just to get the damn valve covers off, thanks to the mile long studs lol. Had to move everything out of the way just to get them up and out, and it took almost an hour, but the valves took five minutes...

Thats very true....lol kind of sucks also.

Either way its looking amazing and cant wait to see the end results....

very good thread....I'll be keeping my eyes on this one....

Looking good man...

Street Lethal · 10-29-2009, 12:10 PM

Thanks....

Dave, what is it going to take to get you to fab me up some headers? I have no time to measure and weld, and after what I went through with the cast iron one's for the GTA, I'd rather just have someone weld them up for me. By the way, when are you going to pick this stuff up, as I want to get it out of here? I also have that Z28 steering wheel that I don't need. By the way, this little fawker is what caused the '86 Z28 to "bang" like that when going into gear, as I threw it on the GTA just for the hell of it, and the same thing happened. Good luck with it lol....

project89 · 10-29-2009, 01:50 PM

pick what stuff up, i shoudl be setup to start doing headers by monday, pay for the materials and cover the cost of the wleding supplys and u got urself a set of headers

Street Lethal · 10-29-2009, 02:33 PM

Bumper, mega-shifter, etc, that stuff. Was going to throw it in your car, but your not letting me know when your having the car shipped up. I already have the tubing materials, what do you mean as far as welding supplies, the nickel rod? Do you have a welder up there....?

project89 · 10-29-2009, 05:17 PM

yeah i have a welder(mig welder for now) working on getting a miller syncrowave 300 like i had in the shop, i just meant replace the wire and **** i use to build ur headers,so it dont cost me anything since im not gonna charge u for a set anyways

is it the whole bumper?? or just the badge off it, i was gonna say just ship that with the heads/intake when u ship them up

project89 · 10-29-2009, 10:25 PM

rob just got back and picked up some more equipment, im deff good to go on the headers, so shoot me a pm when u get on

Sambo '87 · 10-30-2009, 09:03 AM

Ok, I will swap the speedo then. I know the tach won't be right but what about the oil pressure, water temp , and fuel gauge. Will they be inaccurate?

Sambo '87 · 10-30-2009, 09:06 AM

Street Lethal · 10-30-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sambo '87

Ok, I will swap the speedo then. I know the tach won't be right but what about the oil pressure, water temp , and fuel gauge. Will they be inaccurate?

If you keep your stock cluster, but just swap speedo's like I did, everything will work like factory. If your looking to swap the entire cluster, you will need to maintain your stock V6 RPM gauge, but the other gauges will work so long as you get the correct V8 senders. Just swap the speedo (its only two screws behind the cluster, then it pops right out, just take the yellow speed sensor with it), this way you don't have to worry about the other gauges....

Street Lethal · 10-30-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project89

yeah i have a welder(mig welder for now) working on getting a miller syncrowave 300 like i had in the shop, i just meant replace the wire and **** i use to build ur headers,so it dont cost me anything since im not gonna charge u for a set anyways. is it the whole bumper?? or just the badge off it, i was gonna say just ship that with the heads/intake when u ship them up....

Its the whole entire bumper w/sticker. I would recommend either using the bumper and pulling the rest of the ground f/x off first, or simply cut the sticker off from the bumper (don't peel, it'll rip), then graft it into your stock bumper using epoxy. Take your time with the headers, the car isn't going anywhere, and it gives me more time to wrap up the GTA. I pulled the $59 code out, and put the $8D memcal back in. Bringing it over to Ida Automotive for a dyno tune and will get the boost code worked out once the downpipe is fabricated, as everything else is done. Bone stock 305 short block Dave, w/those 882 heads that have since been fully worked. Ported/siamesed stock TPI setup, just waiting on the cam. Fastest 305 on the planet when I'm done, mark my word....