Yes this is one of the lost holly grails of the 60* V6 racing engine world..... For ONLY 3000.00 OR BEST OFFER. The block alone is worth that. http://www.race-cars.com/engsales/ch...58055081ss.htm Dean ps- If I had my old Camaro I would be all over this!!!

Wow, not one response. You guys have no clue what goldmine you are looking at.

The headwork, the block, the high dollar internals

I don't have 3k sitting around and if I did would probably get a v8....probably similar situations for the rest of the guys over here in the v6 section...
But yes the engine is definitely nice, just not ideal for an F-body, I'm sure someone on 60/6 site would love to buy it though. And the block alone is indeed worth that much...the aluminum blocks are 4k a piece now.

It would be an impressive engine to swap into a fiero. All the power and weight savings without the modifications of a v8 swap.

Lack of injectors & ECU.....

While the injectors shouldn't be too hard to get, the ECU might be. And PROGRAMMING for it.....Something tells me it wouldn't be as "simple" as a standard TPI or LS1 tune.

313 HP at 8000 RPM, and 250ft/lbs at 6000 RPM? yea.... That would be as much fun as ripping around in a Honda engine, all bark and no bite. You'd have to rev the bejesus out of it to go anywhere, it'd be a dog around town. It'd be ok for a road course race track of some type, but definitely not a street engine. And a USED race engine? Sold as is, where is? (That's like saying it's "certified pre-owned -- means someone else is CERTIFYING they have already beaten the sh** out of it for you!). For $3000 you can get a V8 crate motor, brand new, and as complete as this (ie. not turn key), and make the same HP and WAY more torque.

I don't see this guy being very successful selling this engine..? Kind of a niche market he's selling to...

My first thought is how cool it'd look with half the intake sticking through the hood of a F-body... $3000 is LS1 swap territory. For that price a person could probably pick up a pair of mint V6 cars, or maybe 6 V6 beaters.

I see I hio the wrong crowd. You guys must not know about my old Casmaro V6. I only had 165 hp and it ran great.

I would not recommend using this motor as is, simplyt use the block and interanls, tone down the cam, and place the MPFI onto it with some 19lb injectors. THose heads alone are incredible, I do not think any of you relise the R&D that went into them to make that kind of HP.

....SO tone it down, new bearings and cylinder rings, and put a more streetable cam into it----cost maybe $400 more- you could probably get this motor for 2500 and put another 500 into it and have a badass 260+ hp street motor that will smoke any IROC.... AND....

>>>I WILL SAY AGAIN>>>>AND..... weight only 268lbs? and IRoc 5.7lt motor is 575lbs. You are taking at least250 lbs off the front end of the car. My factory 60*V6 2.8 car was deadly enough in cornering with only 150lbs off the nose and 165hp. I could eat many cars on autox and road courses becasue of its light weight and closer to 50/50 weight bias.

Sorry, but some of you have no clue what potential you are looking at. Read my history on my old Camaro. If I had this bullet in it, nothing here on these boards would touch it running around town. Maybe a straight line drag..yeah, but that gets boring after the 10 second blast downt he street and then what? try to slow down and turn...opps.\

This is the perfect project motor for a Camaro

It's sweet, but we aren't used to paying $3,000 for a v8, much less a 6. Even if it is a badass 6.

LOL.

That's a sweet little motor. IDK why everyone's scoffing at the price. Like vetruck said the block alone is worth that. Mmmm, dry sump.

Are those gen2 heads on there? If so that explains why it took 8k to get 313 horses out of it.

maybe put a streetable cam in it and a pair of 3500 heads with the MPFI and a 165 or if youre a SD person a 7730 ECM controlling it. Probably wouldnt be too hard to tune it in.

Do you have any Idea who Reher-Morrison is? Do you really think some 3500 out home ported heads are going to be better then their R&D porting? For christ sakes, the heads are the golden ticket here, then the aluminum block next. Forget the dry sump, just go back and swap your current factory wetsump- that is far cheaper and maybe loose 5 hp at most? probably more like 2 or 3, I gaurantee that crankshaft is knife edged.

http://www.rehermorrison.com/

And for those of you living in a box, this is Katech who built the motor. Only the top name in Corvette racing engines- Check out their engine winning resume and durability
http://www.katechengines.com/katech_...s_heritage.php

3500 heads really dont need porting. I have seen the flow numbers on them. My thoughts are if i were to put this into a street car, I would want streetable RPM. There are very few roads that you can spin a motor to 8 grand. I figure that this engine is set up for high rpm racing. Not really suitable for a street car. If i raced circle track or something similar maybe. Yes this block is worth the price, but as some have said, that amount of money puts an LS1 swap on the table.

For real... If $3,000 is nothing to you, and you're in love with this engine, why don't you buy it and show everyone what they missed out on? It's not hard to find a beater V6 Fbody for under $500.

That block is aluminum so it could be bored to a 3.4 displacement, but otherwise, 3500 heads are a no go.
Unfortunately as someone mentioned, $3k is v8 swap territory, and for our ~3200 lb RWD cars, that can take(I'm guessing here) a 400 CI motor without frame modifications for fitment, a $3k v6 just doesn't have that much appeal. Now I'm sure there is someone over here:
http://60degreev6.com/forum/f105
That would seriously consider buying it, but for most of us in the v6 section were here because we can't afford the 350 tpi IROC-Z that we want, or just aren't after much power and want the look. I don't mean to be bashful by any means, these are just the my opinions. But try linking it over on 60/6.

Is is nothing to me when I had probably 30k into my V6 car already.

I do not have that car anymore. if I did, I would buy this in a heartbeat. I am not going to start all over building another one. Already been there done that, I have other cars now I am building- '67 Mini Cooper S. No room in the garage for other toys right now. 4 cars is enough for one person.

I will just say again, this is a chance oof a lifetime and nobody here is eductated enough on a V6's handling potential to realise the treasure this engine is. For those of you (which seems like most of you) that do not know the specs of my car, it pulled 1.07 g's on street tires and 102 ft 60-0 in braking. A stock IROC does best of 147ft and 0.92g's. I am the only person ever to record lateral g's on street tires exceeding 1.0g. My motor was 100lbs heavier than this motor. Your V8 cars can not and will not hold a candle to a build lightweigt V6 in handling and braking....or a $3000 V8 swap when you factor into the suspension changes you need for the extra V8 weight into a V6 and all the other goodies you need for that swap- trans case, radiator,exhaust, etc

You'll end up with a used 250hp V8 motor at best with a $3000 V8 swap, whos kidding who. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/518752

This little grocery getter I built for my ex wife as a daily driver would "eat your IROC for lunch" on any autox or roadrace course, and it has air conditioning and full creature comforts to boot. Before you spout back about how almightly your IROC would be against me, do a little research on me, many have tried and failed already.

Dean

hey ve truck im going to be buildingh a new car soon would deff like some help in the suspension dept if you would be willing to offer some help.

im going for a road race track car this time around ,and as most of us know my specialty is drag suspension / setups

im looking for another v6 car atm but once i find the right one it will be on, as usuall i will be going forced induction , only diff is this car will be a 5 speed or have a t56 swap with a custom adapter im working on, and will be used as daily driver/road course racer

I'd be more impressed for weight saving using the USAC chevy 4 cyl that they have been offering for a couple years. 355 hp and even less weight, if balance is what your looking for......
Personally I would still run a aluminum v8 block, and have to power to run down the backstretches on the track.

Although a V6 is probably ideal for AutoX

Anyone know offhand about how many lbs shaved off the front will make these cars 50/50 distribution? Using say a v6 one for base distribution?

Each car is slightly different depending on what you have in it now. I scaled mine and it was 53/47...so not too far off from 50/50. My weight is probably close to a stock model as I have not removed anything for weight reduction.

I kind of realized the other day that it probably wouldn't take much to offset the weight balance to be heavy in the back, kind of thinking I might be there with AC delete, fiberglass hood swap and aluminum head swap. ~150 lbs of the front right there...

yeah, aluminum block if you could afford it....move battery to trunk, remove smog system, remove anything in front you not using....could even remove main front bumper brace if u wanted.

I'm going to pick and choose my weight reductions, some things I just won't do without, like the stereo. I plan to get a lexan hatch, fiberglass doors, lexan door windows, and fiberglass front end. While still keeping it road legal.

Btw, does anyone else think we need a dedicated weight reduction forum? Anyone know who I can talk to that can make that happen?

There's the Tech/General engine forum as a catch all. Or the Organized Drag Racing and Autocross forum, or the Suspension forum. Take your pick. There are already at least three places you could talk about weight reduction. If anything the problem is there are too many boards already.

There has to be that many forums to condense the information, imagine how hard it would be to find v6 info sifting through miles of v8 info outnumbering it 20 posts to 1...
And yeah, like you said I can pick one, maybe someone else is looking for the same info or posting the info I need, but they picked another one? Just seems for some of the more specific ones we have like TBI or TPI, that we would have a weight reduction one-especially since that is info that can help us all regardless of engine, transmission, model etc. Or at least that's my opinion.

Just searching for "weight reduction" pulls up 5 pages of results, 248 threads, and at least 5 threads on the first page of results are specifically concerning weight reduction. If you're looking for info, just search all the forums, it takes seconds... Actually less then half a second...

If you really want to run an idea passed an admin, you could pm JT, or try the 'contact us' link.

^Or the comments/suggestions subforum. I figure the several page, several year old thread "....late night quest for 2800 lbs" should do it. Its a boar to look through, but they cover pretty much everything.

i'm sorry, but i haven't seen an LS1 put down 250 to the wheels ever, much less 250 to the crank. i saw one put down 276rwhp, running on 7 cylinders.

an LSx swap is quite doable for $3k, even an iron block LQ9 can be swapped in for that price.

oh and btw, borrowing my buddies data logger, i logged a 1.12G on borrowed slicks during an auto-x. on STOCK suspension.

Yes, I understand that the engine is a little over priced for most people, however, no one seems to be chiming in on if this would be an easy swap/upgrade. I don't know much about the v6 camaros/firebirds, but from reading about all the v6 to v8 swaps, there are quite a few things that need to be done in order to complete the changeover (transmission, suspension, gauges, motormounts, etc). This engine, with a little street modification, provides not only an instant power upgrade, but a handling upgrade as well (without having to touch the brakes/suspension). Since the internals are already there, maybe it can also take a little boost and be a frighting contender to any modified v8. But back to my main question, can this engine be a direct swap into a v6 car?

Not without changing that oil pan, and intake. Changing the intake and fuel management alone is probably going to bottleneck that engine far enough that it'd be a parts mis-match. Then you've got about a thousand shades of gray unknowns. You can research a V8 swap and find out exactly what needs to be done, and exactly how it's going to perform when you're done. This mystery is a total shot in the dark. By the time you get it in the car, it might run like total dog ****. How much do you want to gamble on a pipe dream?

Doesn't look all that bad a swap to me. It would basically drop in place, although the way the dizzy's set up is unusual. I'd keep the dry sump if I were going to make an ultimate corner carver. Induction wouldn't neccecarily have to be altered all that much with the right hood. If those are gen2 heads on there even with a good porting they don't compare to worked over 3500 heads. I bet you could bring the power peak down by 1500rpm with the right heads/cam without sacrificing power. Maybe even get more area under the curve.

IMO, anyone that would be seriously interested in this motor would have plans for it in the first place. Messing with the induction, new hood, suspension stuff and whatever go with the territory.

Hey Drew, Looky here..I guess nobody cares though.

Hi Project, yes I can help with any advice or experience I can offer you. Just pm me anytime, I am always glad to help.

It is well documented in the GM poowermanual that they were getting 1.5hp per cubic inch out of the gen 1 iron heads even. On a 3.0 motor, the original Mickey Thompson trucks were getting 275hp on the first years series motors with our heads.

This motor is basically bolt in, use a gen 2 intake and reverse the upper plenum with a "pizzabox" design like I first built for my MPFI and attach the TB and electroics- and away you go wtih no suspension al;terations for added V8 weight.

What alot of people do not realize about a V8 swap that even if you go an aluminum LS1 that weights 430lb, you are not only still adding weight over the iron V6, but you are also poutting that weight MORE FORWARD in the engine bay since the motor is longer. Its not just weight, but also positioning of that weight. That alone makes the balance of the vehicle change and the need for $$$$ in suspension and drivetrain alterations. Like stated, you need motormounts, and various other little parts that all add up. In my area here in SoCal, you can not touch a used LS1 for under $4000, then you need exhaust headers, etc.., radiator, suspension changes, the V6 trans will not bolt up to a V8 (different pattern), etc.

You will not touch an LS1 swap for even close to $3000. Ask anyone that has done it to a V6.

Ill address the cornring abilty issues with the next guy I will quote-

I addressed the LS1 for 3000 issue a=lready, not going to happen.
I also already addressed the weight positioning issue...

There is hardly a car on the face of the earth that can NOT pull 1g on racing rubber, not hard to do at all. Try it on street tires like I stated!

Also, Try it on a skid pad, not a g-tch monitor that is widely know to be so far inacrurate becasue it spikes when jolted and reads much higher than is true. Don;t elieve me? check any reviews on them you can search on googke- its a well known fact. I could probaly spick 1.5g's with a gtech on my car, they are crap. Again, run a real skidpad and then tell me your timed results.

I will say again, I am tthe only person to have ever recorded over 1G on street tires in a 3rd gen with full creature comforts (AC, full interior, including back seats, carpet, and even dynomating for sounmd deadening. My car was designed for daily road use, not a stripped down race car.

Now about my skidpad #'s- I ran a 90ft radius skidpad keeping the circle line centered inbetween my front tires at all times. I ran the 90' radius in 10.1 seconds yelding me a 1.076lateral g's tot he left, and a 1.034 lateral g's to the right. I average ed 1.05g's ON STREET TIREs.

I also did a 60-0 braking trest in an amazing 102 feet. I facotry 1LE iroc does this in 147feet.

So "who care's'? I don't know Drew, many those that would like to make their car do the same?

auto-x1990RS, What are you telling me? you stock v6 Camaro does 1.12g's Ever see road and tracks official test for these cars, Maybe they are way wrong and you are better suited to record information on these cars performance. Partner, you just discredited anything further you have to say. All I can tell you is if you have a stock car pulling 1.12g's on street tires, then you my friend should be poutting me out of a job in NASCAR. I'll buy you a plane ticket, come on out and do some teting with us, I will let you make the calls in one of our upcoming prctice days, if you can't better my suspension calls and doi a better job? then you buy your own plane ticket home.

Time and time again I cant figure out why people insist on chalanging my knowledge and are offended by what advice I offer.I get this "You are almightly and arrogant"..no, i try and help around here with suspension advice, I enjoy helping others learn this stuff. But time and time again I get people trying to challange me with some "top Dog" hangup like they want to try and embarass me so they look better and I look stupid. I have credential, its a fact. I would have to be good at what I do or I would have never gotten this job in the first place, Is that arrogant? Or is that a fact. I think people like you Drew need to look in the mirror and think Who am I and what have I done, you my friend have the arrogance to be testing me without credentials. I have the cars to back what I dsay, I have the credentials to back what I say, I have the reputation (see local boards- So Calif) that other will back what I post for me who have witnesses alot of what I supposedly "boast" (I say I post facts so people can compared stats) what I post. Its a tech board about car performance. There are those who teach, and thopse who learn here on TGO. We all do both. I have learned much. I also know a great deal more than the average person about suspensions and overall vehicle dynamics- so that I teach. There are two of us here with this caliber of understanding and the abilty to grasp vehicle dymanics that we can teach prettey much all aspects of the chassis, Norm Peterson, and myself, DeanEkas. Now with that said, there are many many others in all due respect that come very close, but he and I are the guru's around here. Is that arrogant? I guess that depends if I can help you with a problem or not.

I didn't see, and I still don't see anyone saying anything about their Iroc being a better car then your old car. The topic isn't "Who is this guy?" the topic is an engine that costs more then twice what most V6 thirdgen members paid for their cars.

Actually, I just don't care. I stopped reading what you had to say days ago when you came in here beating your chest bragging up your car. I don't have time for braggarts. If people are always telling you you're arrogant, maybe you're just arrogant?

The mods cleaned up your childish outburst, and I don't mean to encourage it further by replying again, but since they've left your many replies where you're specifically calling me out, I feel the need to reply and explain that I don't care who you are, or what your credentials are. Your attitude from the beginning has been that no one on this forum could possibly know as much about anything as you do, and that's simply foolish. The fact that the best you can do when faced with criticism is to attack my choice in clothing while doing yard work and detailing my car (in 1998), tells me that you're just looking for trouble.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. If you feel the need to call me out again, you can just save yourself the time, because I'm not going to be reading it. Nobody is questioning your credentials, or your super car you used to own. I'm just saying that for that quantity of cash, I'd rather spend it elsewhere then a V6 that's a complete and total unknown quantity.

You need to chill out. You obviously care too much about what other people think of you. It doesn't matter.

Thread closed. If I see anyone trying to continue this behavior with a new thread, warnings/bannings will start. Im not going to name names. PM me with problems/questions.