LostNocturne

Hey everyone! I have two(ish) questions. My car is a 92 3.1L with the stock engine components and transmission. It has 125,000 miles on it with a small rear main seal and head gasket leak. The transmission shifts hard from first into second but smoothly after that.

First question:
My car seems to bog down a ton when I press it into wide open throttle before it gives me any power, is there any replacing or cleaning of parts that I should do to overcome this? Also, what else should I do to get back to showroom horsepower. My girlfriend owns a 2006 Pontiac G6 V6 and when I gun that it feels much more responsive than my Camaro. I don't expect it to be as fast (I know that the G6 has right around 200hp) but I expect it to respond to my inputs just as well even though it is 14 years older (it is a sports car, after all).

Second question:
Say I did want to get more horsepower out of this engine... I've been poking around this forum and I know that I shouldn't expect 200 hp or anything, but maybe just a little bit more than stock-- where would I go to look for new parts and what exactly should I be looking for? I have the resources to apply any parts to my engine myself, I just have no idea what to search for exactly or where to search for them. Some of the threads on here are a little confusing (I'm still trying to wrap my head around what was said in that N/A 300hp thread). I'm not looking to put a turbo or superchager on my car, I just want some bolt on things to make it a little peppier, maybe some modifications that would take me a day total to do. What are some of the things that you guys have done to get more responsiveness and pep out of a sad, 18 year old engine?


Thanks so much for your time everyone, this site continues to be a wealth of knowledge that makes it so much easier to do my own work on my car.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Check for any soft codes, or codes that wont make the check engine light come on. Giver it a tuneup, search: Tom P. major tune up. Run seafoam in the gas, oil, and through a vacume. Make sure TV cable is adjusted right.

For the performance stuff. Dynomax makes a nice and really cheap catback, Pacesetter has headers, there's a few different underdrive pulleys for these cars, K&N filter, Summit sells a 1.6 roller rocker set w/ rods for the 3.1/2.8. Change out you cat, if it's the original one I gaurentee it's clogged. These are your basic bolt-ons.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The harsh 1-2 shift is most likely the 2nd accumulator spring broken. Rather common on the 700R4 tranny. Can be replaced with the trans still in the car.

For more pep: cap, rotor, wires, plugs. Oil change & filter, air filter change, remove snorkel from air cleaner housing. Maybe go to a 2.8l Camaro over the rad air intake, less restrictive then the stock 3.1l air cleaner/intake.

Replace cam chain.

Set timing correctly at 10* BTDC with EST/BYPASS open.

Replace injectors with a decent set of Bosch.

Clean TB and do an idle learn.

RBob.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

If you're looking for bolt-on power adders, the first thing I would do would be to replace every exhaust component from front to rear. Pacesetter headers leading into a Dynomax or other high-flow catalytic converter (or any replacement cat if yours is the original as I can just about promise you that it's restricting your exhaust BADLY), leading into the cat-back system of your choice. I don't recommend a Flowmaster, they sound horrible with the six.

Then you have underdrive pullies, an air conditioning delete (if you have it and after the system has been recovered and evacuated), and either the dual snorkel intake or some sort of cold air intake system (not the underhood kind that actually pulls in warm air). Anything other than that would probably require learning to tune the ECM as well.

JuggaloRon

i agree with everyone here. increase the flow in and out of the engine. Dave is selling what he calls a pizza box intake that is designed to increase the flow of the upper intake manifold. he uses it on his turbo v6 camaro. if you're on a budget, intake and filters paired with headers, cats, and a decent exhaust. some local shops can do great exhaust work, and often cost less than having one sent to your house. i decent cam and 1.52 roller rockers will help out too if you have money left. also get that tranny rebuilt before it goes. mine started to shift hard at 140,000 and then my converter seal went, and so did everything else on the ride home, about 8 miles. also, a new fuel pump and filter, and might want to consider injectors. hope some of this helps.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Almost forgot: You'll need to yank the trans to get at the rear main seal, so do both at the same time. And also replace the head gaskets to get your compression back up to where it should be and the engine should be a little happier.

cj92firebird

Could you post a link for the 1.6 roller rocker set w/rods from Summit? I have searched Summitracing.com and cannot find them.. Thanks!

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

These are them, Summits got a weird thing about not showing parts that fit our cars.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-RP1414-12/

AM91Camaro_RS

If you get those rocker arms, you'll have to buy the edelbrock valve covers or get some off of a fierro. they'll hit the stock valve covers.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

They don't hit with 3.4 valve covers, at least mine don't

Killert

iTrader: (9)

They don't hit my stock valve covers either.

LostNocturne

Wow! Thank you guys so much for all of the replies and help! I am on a bit of a budget right now. I added up the part prices for the Major Tune Up and it comes to about $200 if I order most of it from summit. Looks like I'm looking at around $450 for those Pace Setter headers (and I just about drooled when I saw them). I've seen some high flow cats, but I never paid attention to any prices. I'm already running a Dynomax stainless steel muffler in the back.

I really appreciate all of the different ideas and suggestions. I'm thinking of saving my money that I earn this summer for a 350 project. I'm not sure how much longer sub 200 horse is going to do it for me. So, I'm not sure if I'll do the headers and stuff. I would LIKE to, but $450 for that set makes me think about what I could put into another car if I saved that money for later.

Anyway, keep the opinions coming. Also, if I went with larger injectors, what pressure weight would I want to go with? Would I need a new fuel pump if I just changed my injectors? Would I experience a lot of performance gain from changing my cam?

Oh, before I forget, who here has dropped their transmission without having it on a lift? When I go back home to Syracuse, I won't have access to a lift and my buddy who I work on stuff with out here says he doesn't want to help me drop the tranny.

AM91Camaro_RS

ok, I was under the impression that they wouldn't clear stock valve covers. I have the edelbrock ones on mine... I stand corrected.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Look up the thread: Ditch your stock injectors. The injectors out of a Ranger or B2 V6 will work and seem to have given some good gains to people on here.
the 1.6 rockers with a cam would give you a good increase. Plus it would make it sound like a V8.

AM91Camaro_RS

it can make it have a "lopey" idle...still doesn't sound quite like a v8...

LostNocturne

What should I look for as far as cams are concerned?

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

I read that everywhere too, I think some do and some don't. Any chance that the 3.4 valve covers are taller? Mine don't show any wear yet but I guess that doesn't mean they aren't hitting

Killert

iTrader: (9)

Im actually using 2.8 valve covers on my 3.4, they still fit. I know there is a stock rocker off a newer gen 60*V6 that don't fit, I just forget which ones.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I'm less than 20 miles from you... Could have this done on a Saturday (pending work, of course). Only ever dropped the trans out of my car once with a lift, dropped it twice in the last six months without, on a practically gravel driveway. Even an auto is doable on a wide floor jack. Just get the jack head under the center of the oil pan as best as possible. It's easier to keep one of those things on the jack than it is the T5, which has to be rolled on and off and sit crooked to line up.

JuggaloRon

i dropped my tranny in my driveway for a bench job in december. just remember to jack it up really high so you'll have clearance to pull it out. i know someone was selling some headers for about 150 shipped a while back. might want to check the forums here to see if you can get a killer deal.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

once i get rolling on my turbo set up ill have a real nice set of stainless headers for sale pretty cheap

LostNocturne

Hmm, that might be a kind of appealing offer. I wouldn't be able to pay you much, but I could bring some beer over for you. I'm usually free until around 5 or so on Saturdays (even this Saturday, but I'd have to order the part and the spring).

Alright, so, I think that I am going to pick up a set of those injectors today, but I'd like to see if I could get the ones out of the 3100/3400 cavalier so that I'm not messing up the fuel rails. If I can manage to get them today, I'll swing over to my buddy's shop and do them in his parking lot. Also, if I get these new injectors and decide to go with the 1.6 roller rocker set, am I going to need BIGGER injectors with that?

I will keep my eyes open on the forums here for a set of headers. That would be fantastic!

I'll clean the throttle body out-- in that tune up thread it looks like he said not to use certain cleaners because it damages the coating inside of the throttle body. I'll also grab new spark plugs, I'm thinking Bosch Platinum IIs and new MSD ignition coil, cap, distributor and 8.2mm wires. I'll also pick up some head gaskets so that I can do that job too while I have my engine torn apart. I feel like that tune up could take me a solid day off while it's up on a jack.

Also, I saw that pizza box for sale on here a while back, what advantages does that have for performance and how much are they running for?

KDAWG, it says at Summit that those rocker arms are for the 2.8L, will they also fit the 3.1L? I'm glad that the kit comes with pushrods, I'm sure that mine are all bent to hell. I'm still curious about the cam to, what type of cam should I look at if I want to go bigger and will I still be fine with the same size injectors and those rockers?

I should probably order the cat and have it welded on before I leave Rochester for the summer seeing as to how the only guy who I know that welds works at my friend's shop out here, so that'll need to be done by the end of the month.

I'm feeling like after I do this work, I'm not going to need to do anything else for a long time.

Thanks so much guys! Keep it coming!

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I appreciate the offer, but I haven't touched that stuff since my 21st birthday...

Anyways, running down your list.
1. 3100 fuel injectors are too big and will throw a code 45 for rich exhaust, 3400 ones even bigger. If you REALLY need a set, I have at least one full set extra.
2. ANYTHING that works on the 2.8 works on the 3.1 and the 3.4 (provided the 3.4 has iron heads).
3. Throttle body is not coated and you can use anything you want on it provided you remove the electrical stuff first. And get the TB gasket pack, you'll need it.
4. Don't waste the money on the Bosch plugs. Get the AC Delco's that are half the price and run better. Keep the plugs with the engine (Delcos for GM, Autolites for Fords, Champions for Chrysler, Densos for Jap cars, Bosch for Euros).
5. You may not need the distributor. You can pick one up due to the fact that the pickup coil has been redesigned, but you probably don't need one.
6. Clean the entire engine real nice with degreaser or a pressure washer to look for any obvious leaks.

JuggaloRon

the pizza box intake is just a design for increased flow over the stock manifold. if you ever seen a cross section of the upper intake manifold, you know the 2.8/3.1 design isn't the best for high flow, but is sufficent for a stock motor. on the injectors, plan on about 1 pound for about every 10-12 horse you plan on making. its a rough estimate, but it'll get you pretty close to the correct flow rate.

90RED3rdGEN

Enjoying the great suggestions. Checked Summit's page and didn't find the headers for the 3.1 listed but haven't called the company yet.

Another question, any experience or advice on what mods can be done or if the header or hi flow cat converter and still pass California smog test? Want to see improvement in performance but still have to pass a smog.

Appreciate the feedback

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

I doubt you'll pass californias emmisions testing with the headers as they force you to elimate the EGR and AIR system I believe.

micktroup2

You won't find headers for the 3.1. Pacesetter never got them approved since the market is too small to justify the expense. Headers for the 2.8 work, since the motor is the same, but you won't pass smog inspection. 3.4 headers work, since the motor is the same(externally) but they will need massaging to fit the engine bay- I believe one of them hits the firewall. Do a search for details. As to AIRS and the EGR valve- you could have fittings installed on the headers to fit...

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Anything that works on the 2.8 works on the 3.1. However, I believe that the Pacesetters are only 49 state legal (CA, of course, would be the exception), and there is no provision for the AIR connections anyways on the passenger's side. Which, of course, would mean that you would probably have to delete the AIR system or at least some of the hoses and connections, which would cause you to fail CA emissions tests. The EGR will still connect, as there IS a provision for that, but there is no fitting for the AIR system.

90RED3rdGEN

Thanks Maverick. What about minimizing friction to increase available horsepower? Summit's Roller Rocker arms look like a good investment? Can you tell me what the 1.6 denotation means?

Also, if these allow a slightly higher/longer lift on the valves will this get me into smog trouble with a richer emission?

Would I need to replace the push rods at the same time?

Also see an underpully replacement. Do they really make that much of a difference and how?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I don't have much info on the rockers vs emissions issue... Maybe someone else can chime in on that. From what I understand, however, the 1.5/1.6:1 ratio of the rocker arms means that the rocker provides 1.5 (stock) or 1.6 times the amount of valve opening that the cam lobes provide. The Summit rockers, if you find the right ones, come with the proper pushrods. However, I have heard that some of the rockers available with the higher lift ratio won't fit under the stock valve covers, so you would probably need to find a set from a Fiero 2.8 (not too sure on this one for the Summit rockers, maybe someone else can confirm).

AM91Camaro_RS

I can't see the slightly higher lift from going to 1.6 rockers effecting emissions. Yes, the 1.5 or 1.6 ratio is "the length of the rocker". Measuring from the center of the roller (on a roller rocker) to the center of the fulcrum (pivot) is 1.5 or 1.6 times the length of the fulcrum to pushrod pivot point. In turn, your valve will open 1.5 or 1.6 times as high as the lobe lift. Make sense? You shouldn't have to change your pushrods just because of changing rockers. However, if you don't change them, you could, down the road, see problem with wear between the rocker and pushrod. If you do change the pushrods, you could see the same problem with wear at the lifter. Don't change the lifters without changing the cam. I've run old pushrods with new rockers different times. But, last time I pulled my motor apart, I did see wear between the two. It could have been from an oiling issue or something else though. I can't say it was or wasn't because of changing some parts and not all. Just pointing out that there is potential for wear.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Which means that it's probably a good idea to remove the pushrods and clean the crap out of them before you install the new rockers, right, just to make sure there isn't any debris that could interfere with oiling or cause additional wear?

AM91Camaro_RS

cleaning them is def. a good idea. You can look through them and make sure they're clean. Mine were all clean, though. Part of my problem could have been heavier valve springs and the car was parked for a couple of years, only being started occasionally. That was more of the "oiling problem" I had in mind (as is, being started without recent oil being on the valve train).

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Ah. I see. I'll have to watch out for that if/when I do mine. I figure that any more valvetrain work on my engine is going to either involve a 3100 hybrid swap or complete teardown and installation of new stem seals and the "performance" springs (that's what they were called on eBay when I bought them, not sure if they really are, though as they look like AE Clevite stock replacments) that I've had for 2 years now.

90RED3rdGEN

I saw something on another thread about the Summit rockers potentially hitting the valve covers but several poster's returned a comment that they had no problems running them. When I talk to Summit I'll run it past them and see if they can provide any insight.

JuggaloRon

if you're worried about valve cover clearance, get some off a fiero, or aftermarket ones. i thought it was either edelbroc or someone like that who made them.