V6Discussion and questions about the base carbureted or MPFI V6's and the rare SFI Turbo V6.
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yeah i emailed them a couple times, they dont have much experience with what im doing really. i imagine for just simple tuning on these engines they can handle it no problem.
if i was going to tune my motor without the turbo on it id probably have them do it, i could use the same thing that you did to yours but its kind of a waste since im about to turbo it
yeah the guy even said me tuning the megasquirt was a better option then the sy/ty code or tgp code
the guy at gmtunners is also under the impression that these motors will blow up over 250 hp
Quote:
Well to be honest you'll never need 48lb injectors unless your engine is going to be producing 350hp. And a stock 3.4 iron-head V6 won't produce this number and stay together long. I work with tuning these engines all the time in the Fiero community and lots of guys have turbocharged them (the 3.4 Camaro iron-head V6 swap used to be the most popular swap/upgrade for Fiero guys to replace their stock 2.8's with). Most struggle to get these engines to produce more than 225hp with boost unless they really give the heads a work over and run a custom turbo cam. But even then they are using forged pistons. Most people who just slap a turbo on an otherwise stock engine are only making about 200 - 225hp depending on mods, and the most boost they are running is about 7-9 psi. 5-7psi non-intercooled is what I would consider a maximum safe level to run on a stock engine. Can you run more? Perhaps, but you had better be keeping an eye on your engine's AFRs and Knock Retard while operating it under full boost otherwise you run the risk of damaging it.
If you were going to keep and use the stock distributor that came in your 3.1 (and put that in your 3.4 during the swap), the only programming we could really use in your stock 1227730 ECM would be for a Syclone/Typhoon. However, since all 3.4's were set up to run DIS (distributorless ignition systems), I would highly recommend using that over a distributor any day of the week because it is far superior, even to aftermarket distributors and ignition systems. And if you went with DIS, you could use the Turbo Grand Prix code-based programming in your stock ECM which is more capable than the Sy/Ty programming, in my opinion. However, you might find the MegaSquirt system to be more forgiving and easier to tune for boost than one of these factory systems, especially if you have a local friend who can tune the MegaSquirt.
Hope this info helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
-ryan
Quote:
* 270whp is pretty impressive out of one of these engines.* I've seen a lot of guys dump a ton of money in these engines and can never seem to get really good power numbers out of them, because of the restrictive iron heads.* They usually need to dump the iron heads altogether and go with later model aluminum heads.* Regardless, if you can do it, more power to you.* As far as what computer to use, that is up to you.* If they guy in PA has experience building these engines to make good power with the MegaSquirt, then maybe that will be your best choice.* Tuning the Sy/Ty ECM code to work on a 3.1/3.4 isn't easy in the first place, and getting it to work good on a 300hp turbocharged 3.4 probably isn't going to be a cake walk either.* I'm sure it can be done, but the question is how much time is it going to require to get it dialed in?* If the guy in PA already has a working MegaSquirt ECU tune for what you are doing, that might be the best way to go.* I can tell you I haven't tuned any 1227730/iron-head turbocharged V6 combo that made that kind of power.* Not saying I couldn't do it, but I don't have the experience so maybe it would be better to go with the MegaSquirt setup for your build.
*
-ryan
tunnign the sy/ty code as the guys says is not an easy deal to do on one of these motors
but as he also says he has nevertuned anything that has made that much power before but regardless it shouldnt matter on hp level to nail down a tune
not saying it wont work but it there are far easier options
pilsbury the ms is the way to go for sure i can get u base tuned in an hour and can update ur tune just by sending u a file no matter were u are that u can upload to the ms urself not to mention i can show u how to make adjustments urself in about 30 mins
i imagine ill go with the megasquirt i just wanted to look around and make sure that was the best way/easiest way to go. seeing as you already have a tune that works once i figure out how to upload and change things on my end it shouldnt be a major issue with your help, your pretty much the only person i have found with a working setup..that makes power
i do have a lot of questions about how it hooks up but im far to sleepy tonight to type them up.
how big is the program that ms uses...can it be emailed, im iterested to look at it
**on second thought...these motors from what i have been able to tell are almost bullet proof. i beat the crap out of my 3.1 and ran it on low oil. old oil and no oil for a lot of miles just for the heck of it before i dyno ran it and it still put out respectable numbers lol
it opened...kinda, pulled up an error at start up.
so im assuming all i really have to do when the time comes is open your tune and load it in to ms, car starts(hoepfully lol) send you a datalog and go from there
oo wow really mm you and me must have spoke to different people because he was talk up to 300-400 with the twins on a some what stock motor but how is that megasqurit i heard of it before but never really looked in to it. the whole build your own ecm thing troubled me
oo wow really mm you and me must have spoke to different people because he was talk up to 300-400 with the twins on a some what stock motor but how is that megasqurit i heard of it before but never really looked in to it. the whole build your own ecm thing troubled me
the ms is a great unit i love it
for just under 310 bucks u can have a complete ready to go megasquirt system that u dont have to build urself
pilsbury if ur bringin out the car here for me to do the full install ill do the megasquirt install it will only take me 1-2 hours and can then tune the car right here would take about 1 hour to get u a tune dialed in
and yes u can email me logs and i can refine the tune from there and email u back the files.
once u get the new fuel and ignition maps u just hookup ur laptop to the ms and upload the new files to it and ur done.
little update... the boost gauge arrived today and everything else is in the mail except for my megasquirt ecm, ill take care of that tomorrow. so i would say by the end of next week i should have everything i need to bring another Turbo V6 to life
little update... the boost gauge arrived today and everything else is in the mail except for my megasquirt ecm, ill take care of that tomorrow. so i would say by the end of next week i should have everything i need to bring another Turbo V6 to life
yup should be really soon by the 28th u will have a fully tuned turbo car up and running
Have you considered using BAUJP? I'm biased against most aftermarket ecms. I like being able to write my own code. BAUJP runs on your current ecm without repinning, you just need to transfer a few things from AZTY (probably what your ecm's using now) and change a few constants to get it running.
__________________ Increasingly I find the difference between a 'fact' and opinion is the number of people that believe it.
3.4 block converted to roller valvetrain with 220/225 cam on 115 lsa, early '769' heads with 3500 valves, LS6 springs & mild porting, worked over heddman headers, 3500 plenum with ported 3400 lower & 'short star' 65mm throttle. 210hp at 5800ft (that's 270hp at sealevel )
LOL, me too. I have to resist throwing my laptop sometimes. But it's fun once it does what you want.
__________________ Increasingly I find the difference between a 'fact' and opinion is the number of people that believe it.
3.4 block converted to roller valvetrain with 220/225 cam on 115 lsa, early '769' heads with 3500 valves, LS6 springs & mild porting, worked over heddman headers, 3500 plenum with ported 3400 lower & 'short star' 65mm throttle. 210hp at 5800ft (that's 270hp at sealevel )
Have you considered using BAUJP? I'm biased against most aftermarket ecms. I like being able to write my own code. BAUJP runs on your current ecm without repinning, you just need to transfer a few things from AZTY (probably what your ecm's using now) and change a few constants to get it running.
megasquirts code is open source and can be modified in anyway by the end user u can also write ur own code to do whatever u want
__________________ used to be ...... highly modded 3.1.....
best 1/8 mile time...9.51@74 mph
2.04 60' on street tires
best 1/4 14.97@89.95mph
for now ...... stock 3.4
thnx man those legs on the bends are a lil short we may have to pick up 2 ft of 2.5 inch stright tube from the parts store, the bends im used to usually have like 18 inch long on each sodes of the bends
i need to make sure the parts stores around here carry 2.5 inch straight pipe...im sure at least one of them does, and i suppose we can hit an exhaust shop early saturday morning if the parts stores dont have anything
The gen1 motors are not as strong as you think. Over 450hp and your two center mains will start giving out. This is why I sold my 3.4/3500 and am putting in a 3400/3500.
to be honest ill probably keep it at pretty low boost for general use so im not to worried about anything going bad. i will however do a full boost dyno run just to see what its making.
i imagine my weak link will be in the transmission area, wont know till its in and driving for awhile, we shall see
The gen1 motors are not as strong as you think. Over 450hp and your two center mains will start giving out. This is why I sold my 3.4/3500 and am putting in a 3400/3500.
he wont have any issues i spin my motor to dam near 8,200 and havent flexed the mains his will be able to make alot more power since im setting the revlimiter to 6,200 , so he can make more power then mine and not abuse the bottom end as bad as i do
He will if you are going for over 400hp. I looked into making mains for a member on 60v6, but he decided it was cheaper to keep buying blocks rather than spend the dough on main caps. The twin turbo Chevette made 413hp/539tq with a "3200" hybrid and was having issues with the center mains stretching at those power levels (15psi).
The gen1 motors are not as strong as you think. Over 450hp and your two center mains will start giving out. This is why I sold my 3.4/3500 and am putting in a 3400/3500....
+1 Good advice....
__________________ '90 Trans Am GTA: 305 w/the stock TPI system... and T88 Turbo.
Fastest 305 on the planet...
I'd much rather be stroked first... then blown. Wouldn't you?
He will if you are going for over 400hp. I looked into making mains for a member on 60v6, but he decided it was cheaper to keep buying blocks rather than spend the dough on main caps. The twin turbo Chevette made 413hp/539tq with a "3200" hybrid and was having issues with the center mains stretching at those power levels (15psi).
Well since you looked into it what was the cost? I don't plan to run those levels of boost or power daily, it will stay pretty mild on the street say 5-10psi max.
Last edited by Pillsbry10; 06-19-2010 at 05:56 PM.
__________________ "You're never too old to learn something stupid."
- '87 Formula Firebird - never ending project
- '91 RS Camaro - *sold
- '93 Z28 - donor
- '71 Camaro LT - as if I need another project.....
- '00 S-10 Xtreme ext cab... new beater
well more cell pics of headers being fabed and welded and also removal and seperatation of the stock ecu harness and seperating it from the power harness so i can wire up the megasquirt ecm
U v6 guys are nuts men , i gotta give it up to u , i cant believe how much u guys can get out those little pushrod V6s with just a turbo thats amazing, hey maybe i should take my l03 305 out and put a turbo 3.4 or 3.8 in
Set of Stainless headers for a 2.8-3.4 v6 motor...not emissons legal, pm me if your interested. they were custom made by pf&e and are still in perfect shape.
ranging from headers installed to mocking up downpipe to whats left of the actory harness + with the megasquirt harness tied into the harness ( just need to finish cleaning it up a bit and reinstalling the loom and it will look like stock just alot less wires then normal)
and some pics of the intercooler and some plumbing etc
) 
