I've tried before on here and didn't get very far but I'll try again out of desperation. About two months ago when the weather started getting hot I got in my car and started it up and I noticed it started idling really rough so I took off down the road and it died. I got it back home and it would start up for about ten or fifteen minutes until it would stumble and die. I would smell gas like the engine is flooding. I did the paperclip trick and got code 12 and 33. Since this has happened I have replaced the engine coolant sensor, IAC sensor, IAT sensor, ignition control module, TB sensor and checked the vacuum and got 20 and gradually decreased as I gave it gas. I took it for a very short test drive a couple weeks ago and it seemed to do fine until I turned around and in mid turn it died like a switch going off. It would only seem to do this once the engine warmed up, I would let it run at night and it would only stay running about ten or fifteen minutes and start stumbling and die. If I gave it any gas whatsoever it would die immediately, it went from doing this to one day giving it gas was the only thing keeping it running then back to do the earlier symptoms. Now it seems to be acting even worse, it won't stay started longer than three or four seconds at best and then dies, not enough time to get a reading from the voltmeter on the MAP sensor. I seem to remember having this problem last year this same time of year and at the time I thought it was maybe just bad gas but I had it towed to the mechanic and they never could figure it out either but told me they replaced the MAP sensor and it seemed to run fine. They had it for about two months and the weather had cooled back down so it ran fine until now it being hot again it's acting up again. I seem to remember during the cooler months I couldn't punch the gas very hard or sudddenly or the car would stumble and the RPM drop down to almost nothing and then it would pick back up like normal and go. Everytime I start it now I smell gas something awful like the engine is flooding and I see smoke coming from the tailpipe and it won't stay running longer than a few seconds. It seems like something electrical isn't working or shutting off because it's worn out or getting too hot. Yesterday I cleaned out the TBI with carb cleaner and it was full of carbon and I messed with the pin on the TB sensor and it did very little. I'm at my wits end and I'm throwing money around on parts that aren't doing a thing, I've read somewhere else on here that it could possibly be the injectors or the fuel pump going out. The only other things I could think it would be is the EGR valve or the ECU. What do you guys think?? Sorry if this is a bit long but I wanted to be thorough cause I'm stumped. Thanks in advance. Jason

If the original injectors are still in the engine replace them. Don't waste time measuring them, just replace them. Then see how it runs.

RBob.

My Bird did that last summer and come to find out it was the coil, and the old one still sparked, but I replaced it on a whim and the car ran superb and yes mine had the same symptoms as yours

I think I'll check both of those things and I'll give an update later, thanks guys!

90-92 cars had a TSB for this exact problem, related to the ignition parts and wiring. Have the ignition module tested before doing anything else. It's free, and a replacement is cheaper than a single injector. Don't feel bad as my 91 harness did the same thing. Someone else on here just had his entire engine harness replaced for the same issue.

Do you mean the ignition control module or something else? I just bought a new one not even a month ago if that's what you mean, not sure. I took out the map sensor and took it down to autozone and they said that's one of the few sensors that they can't check for some odd reason.

Now I have a couple of questions, first of all, how hard is it to change out the injectors and how do I do it? Where can I find replacements for a reasonable price?

Secondly, I was told that pretty much most of the time coils are either good or bad, never on and off again and work just some of the time. Is this true or not always the case with these cars? I have been reading on here and elsewhere that for some reason these 91s and 92s have this problem and not one of the threads started about this subject I have found ever come to any conclusion, so if I solve this problem I'm going to make a point to be the first (to my knowledge) to post my findings about this problem. I've checked the distributor and it looked fine too, the last I checked about the time I replaced the IAC sensor it appeared to have removed the code 12. I'll keep you guys in the loop, thanks again.

Code 12 is normal, you should get that every time codes are pulled. It just means that the engine isn't currently running.

Coil: ignition coil or pickup coil? Both can be intermittent. Which will cause problems.

The MAP sensor is most likely OK. The reason for code 33 is that the engine is having difficulty running. That in itself will set code 33.

Injectors. Need to pull the plenum. Which isn't all that difficult. Them 2 or 3 bolts and lift the fuel rail up. Do not disconnect the fuel lines from the rail. Leave them connected and remove the clips and what not to allow the fuel lines to remain connected.

Rotate clip, pull injector out. Lube new o-rings with a little oil or petroleum jelly, install into fuel rail, install clip. Once all six are done it is best to pressure check for leaks. Do a key-on, engine-off to pressurize the system.

Do not use the under hood test lead. If there is a leak they are usually like a shower head, and a spark at the test lead ....

If all OK, then carefully place the injectors back into the manifold openings and bolt it back together.

There is a huge thread on which and where to get injectors.

If you have an auto tranny then an idle learn is required whenever the battery is disconnected or the IAC is changed.

RBob.

edit: here is the injector thread:

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/v6...injectors.html (Ditch your stock injectors!)

My bad, I'm sorry. The first time I used the paperclip trick I got codes 13 and 33, lost the 13 after I replaced the IAC sensor I believe. I think I still have the code 33, not sure cause the engine will not run now to flash a code. Just tried to a few minutes ago this morning and it's dead, it will crank and crank all day but will not start up now. That I seem to recall, I had the MAP sensor replaced in october of last year and it still looks brand new. As far as the coil, either one I guess. I'm not very mechanically inclined so I'm not always sure about these things but I'm trying.

What I would do next is 2 things.
1. Take the ignition module inside the distributor (the one you said you recently replaced) to AZ and have it tested, just to make sure.
2. Remove a spark plug and do two things: 1. Check to see if it's soaked with gas (this tells if you have spark or not or if it's fuel fouled), and 2. Crank the engine with the plug out to see if there is a spark. Of course, you will need to have the plug sitting against a bolt or something so that the outer shell of the plug is grounded.

If you want to replace the ignition coil (that the center plug wire on the dizzy connects to), you'll need to cut the rivets or unbolt it. You have 2 options: 1. Stock style replacement coil, or 2. MSD Blaster oil-filled can coil. The MSD is what is recommended by the guys who designed our ignition systems. You will need to find a place to mount it, preferably away from anything hot (which is one of many reasons why they burn out, actually burn up). Do not get an Accel coil if you're looking for "performance". It doesn't last long being daily driven. I just tossed mine after finding it in the bottom of the trash can I almost never empty again. It's a $45 paperweight.

Codes are pulled key-on, engine-off. The code 13 is for a dead O2 sensor.

For the non-start, along with what maverick posted, shorted injectors will do the same thing. In this case there will most likely be spark, but no or very little fuel on the plugs.

Since this running problem has been going on for some while. There may be more then one issue involved at this time.

RBob.

I think I'll go ahead and disconnect the battery cables this morning and see if anything happens then. On another car repair forum I'm on, one of the mods keeps telling really focusing on the MAP sensor and I just have a hard time finding anything wrong with it because it's brand new. I've tried getting voltages off it and bought a vacuum gauge to test vacuum and it seems fine. I read the thread on the injectors, I don't want to damage my car or do anything to harm it because it's my everyday driver and I've been borrowing my brother's car for the last month and a half until I get this one fixed but what injectors would you suggest? I know in the thread they really endorse older F1ZE injectors, would they be safe and if so, where would you advise I get them and what type of O rings do I need?

Crap. I wish I had read this prior to Sunday afternoon...
What am I facing now?

can anyone tell me how to make my own post or also known as a thread on herer cant figure it out

Click on the V6- http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/v6/

Then go to the top of where the threads start and click on "new thread" - http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ne...newthread&f=22

Very carefully thread the lines back into the rail BY HAND until they stop turning. This should be more than 2 turns, BTW. If they stop turning before this, back them out and realign them. You DO NOT want to strip out the fuel block. It's a royal pain to get it sealed again if you do ( ). If you disconnected the lines from the rubber hoses, you'll need to go to the parts store and pick up a GM fuel line o-ring kit in the Help section. May need to get the rings anyways as I think both ends of the lines have rings...

Thanks, Maverick. I will be extremely careful when I reassemble. I didn't disconnect the rubber hoses, just the fittings from the fuel rail.