Originally Posted by project89

pure waste of money, any of the off the shelf chips pretty much do nothing, i dont even think they made them for the v6 engines

Originally Posted by kmcn47

project89 isn't saying a hot chip wouldn't help the performance, hes saying that any chip you can buy from a website or off the shelf wont help you, you'd have to have someone burn you a car specific chip for your setup to really get the most out of your car

Originally Posted by kmcn47

best thing to do with the 2.8 if you plan on keeping it would be some porting, and a better flowing intake (the tpi intake is alot better flowing and cold air{in front of the radiator]) that and the right gears would help it alot

Originally Posted by Flopes

http://thirdgenmods.firebirdv6.com/coldair.html
that be a better option?

Originally Posted by KG427KG427

Is this set up better than a tpi cold air intake setup with the dual snorkel ?

Originally Posted by project89

no

Thank you for clarification.

the tpi setup is the best , the reason they do it that way on the firebirds is that the firebirds cannot use the tpi dual snorkle intake

Originally Posted by KG427KG427

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Sorry another quick stupid question. As far as headers go on the 3.1 v6 these would basically replaced the stock exhaust manifolds correct?

And if I were to get some for my 3.1 headers that is would they be legal in California ? And I can still re use them when I swap in my 3.4.

What would be better to do 1st new headers on 3.1 or new delta cam 260 grind?

Originally Posted by Maverick H1L

1. Yes. But you also need to get rid of the AIR system because the headers don't have a provision for it.
2. AFAIK, the PaceSetters are 49-state legal, CA being the only state that said No because of the AIR delete.
3. Headers and then cam...

Originally Posted by Maverick H1L

1. Yes. But you also need to get rid of the AIR system because the headers don't have a provision for it.
3. Headers and then cam...

Originally Posted by project89

i would do cam before headers , cam will give bigger gains then the headers and is cheaper

Originally Posted by kmcn47

it would if there is no filter, but i'm not clear on the specifics of the "formula hood" power bulge? they made some of those functional?

Originally Posted by 82Camarolove

I have a 2.8 carb from my stock 1982.

Did I understand you properly where I can drop in the 3.4 and everything will match up? After that I put in a turbocharged (any idea which one will work) and I could potentially push out 500-600 hp?

I'm guessing I will have to change my 200C transmission to the 700R4?

Originally Posted by Project 3.4 Camaro

This thread is for people looking to get the most out of their v6 f-body, much of this information however, can be applied to all cars, whether they are v8, or non f-body.

First I'm going to come out and say it, mod for mod a v8 will always make more power than a v6, that being said the v6 does have advantages that some people prefer them for, hopefully the following will help you decide if you want to modify your v6 or swap for a v8:
*lighter weight, and better placement of the weight, aluminum v8s aside, our engines are a good bit lighter, and sit further back and a little lower than v8s, making our v6 cars better handling than the v8 ones, even the aluminum v8s while fairly close in weight, still don't position that weight as ideally.
*better fuel economy, even a heavily modified v6 if driven moderately will use less gas than a v8, its a simple matter of vollume of air/gas needed to fill the cylinders.
*the 660 is a robust engine((just how robust you ask?)(https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/5...vastation.html)), and easy to find replacement engines for and cheap, it is also a perfectly balanced engine with its 60* v
*It's different, and to quote someone who quoted someone else "any idiot can make a v8 car fast, but it takes a smart idiot to make a v6 fast"
*If you want more pros/cons of v6 versus v8, read this thread https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/588179-why-v6.html

By now if you are still reading this, you probably want to stick with a v6, now to help you decide if you should work with the platform you have, or maybe swap in a different v6, allow me to break down your v6 options and explain them in some detail, along with stock power output, and potential output with modification, it should be noted that while I believe my N/A figures to be obtainable, to get that high will probably require heavy modification, and some sacrifices in driveability/streetability.

Engines our 3rd gen cars are equipped with from the factory:
*2.8 carb(82-84) 102 hp (76 kW) and 145 lb·ft (197 N·m) There was also a high output version available in the firebird, aside from different output levels stock, the following should still apply:
These early year carb motors had smaller journal cranks that are known for failure(in fact I saw an 83 v6 car with a hole in the block from shooting a rod, I suspect crank failure caused it) they also have slightly smaller valves, and a less agressive camshaft than the newer MPFI 2.8s, I would not build one past 200 hp without swapping to the newer crank, and 200 hp is probably the limit for an N/A non hybrid(more on this later) 2.8, with boost I believe one could make 300-400 hp max, and a hybrid build probably 250-300.

*2.8 MPFI(85-89) 135 hp (101 kW) and 165 lb·ft (224 N·m)
In 85 the 2.8 was revised, with a bigger, stronger crank(I do not know of anyone who has broken one) along with bigger valves, and a more aggressive camshaft, power limits are more or less the same, as anything you can do to one 2.8 you can do to the other, the only major difference being, in the MPFI 2.8 you shouldn't need to get a stronger crank.

*3.1 MPFI (90-92) 140 hp (104 kW) at 4800 RPM and 185 lb·ft (251 N·m) The 3.1 and 2.8 are at their most basic level, the same engines, the blocks are externally identical in dimension, the 3.1 is basically a stroked 2.8(meaning the pistons travel further in the cylinders due to a longer crank throw), it also has a few other differences, mainly updated technology things, but mechanically, it is the same engine and will easily swap into a 2.8 car. Modified N/A non hybrid could probably make 250 hp, hybrid N/A 300 hp, and in turbocharged form, this engine can probably make 400-500 hp.

Now that I've covered the engines our cars came with, I will list the most popular v6s to swap into our cars, from easiest to swap to hardest, which is also from least power potential to most..:

*First and foremost is the 3.4 RWD v6, this can be found in 93-95 F-bodies, its output in stock form is: 160 hp (119 kW) at 4,600 rpm and 200 lb·ft (271 N·m) torque at 3600 rpm
This engine is more or less to the 3.1, what the 3.1 is to the 2.8, albeit the difference in size comes from a larger bore, its still the same engine mechanically, it still uses iron heads, but has a more aggressive cam than its predecessors, a serpentine belt setup, reverse flow water pump, and sequential fuel injection, the engine itself WILL bolt right up to your stock motor mounts, and your transmission, assuming you have a v6 car of course. It is by far the easiest swap as far as engines that our cars couldn't get factory equipped, as it is more or less the same engine. In N/A non hybrid form max power is probably about 300, hybrid probably 350, and in turbocharged form, this engine could probably make 500-600 hp. For swap information, read these:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...swap-read.html
Also, this is the engine that I have swapped into my car, and built up, so if you still have questions after reading the swap articles, I might be able to answer them.

*2nd engine of note, is a 3x00 engine, this includes the 3100, 3400 and 3500(lx9) engines, they are FWD engines found in newer cars(94+) and power output varies from 160 hp (119 kW) at 5200 rpm and 185 lb·ft (251 N·m) at 4000 rpm for an early year 3100, to 96 hp (146 kW) to 201 hp (150 kW), torque ranges from 213 lb·ft (289 N·m) to 221 lb·ft (300 N·m) in the 3400. These engines are still part of the 60*v6 engine platform family, and the blocks while not identical to the RWD ones, are very similar, and share the same bellhousing bolt pattern(it will bolt to our transmissions) the 3100 is essentially an evolved rwd 3.1, it has aluminum heads, splayed valves, beehive springs, roller camshaft and lifters, and in newer version roller fulcrum rockers, the 3400 is its bored out big brother, with the 3500 lx9 being slightly more bored out, it also has a forged crankshaft from the factory. Being that these engines are newer and from fwd cars, some modification is going to be necessary to swap one in, namely custom fabricated engine mounts as these engines don't have rwd mounts on them, also the ECM and wiring harness will be needed, or an ECM swap, these ECMs have PCMs built into them I believe, so I am uncertain how to get around that with a non electronically controlled transmission, but I am sure its possible, look into it first. The egr if used might also require some ingenuity figuring out how to set it up.
Power potential for these engines is probably 300 hp N/A, 500-600 turbocharged for the 3100, and probably 350 hp N/A, 550-650 turbocharged for a 3400, with a 3500 being a little bit higher. For swap information, read this:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/5...-3-5-swap.html
There is also a thread by the same guy on the 660 website somewhere, but I could not find the thread atm. But in general, this site is a good site for 60* v6 info, http://60degreev6.com/, though it mostly deals with fwd cars and 3x00 engines.


*Last but not least are the 90* v6s, I honestly do not know much about them, but I will give the basic info I do have on them.
There are several variants, a RWD 3800 that was in the late model 4th gens, a 4.3 that has been used in trucks and is basically a castrated 5.7(2 cylinders lopped off) And some front wheel drive variants, and whatever the grand nationals had. Any one of these engines has more power potential than the 60* v6 engines because of their displacement advantage, I could see one hitting 700, if not 800+ horsepower(with boost) for the non 4.3 ones(In fact, I'm pretty sure its been done). They do however have a downside, because of their 90* angle, they are not naturally balanced, and I may be wrong about this, but I believe spinning rod bearings is somewhat common because of that, also because of this angle, you will not be able to use your stock transmission, they will require a bit of fabrication with motor mounts, and probably an ecm swap, some of the engines are turbocharged or supercharged from the factory, the 4.3 engines I believe don't have a lot of aftermarket, or the parts that you can get aftermarket are expensive, I am uncertain.

My basic opinion is, the engine has awesome power potential, but requires a lot of work to swap, it is also unbalanced due to its block angle, in my personal opinion, a v8 is a better option, simply because it is as much work swapping in one of these as a v8, that being said many people love them, if you want to be really unique, or stay v6 but have more power than a 60 degree v6 can offer, want a challenge or big project, than this engine is for you. I am honestly guessing here, but power output for these is probably going to be 400 or so N/A, 700+ with turbocharging, 550+ with supercharging. For swap info, you will have to do some digging I'm afraid, as I don't know of any readily available information on it.

By now you have probably chosen your platform, I am going to take a break at this time and come back later to start delving into what options you have for modifying your engine, I am not going to be as detailed on modifications for the 90* engines, as I don't know them as well, but basically anything that can be done to a 60* engine, can be done to them except for a hybrid swap, also I do not know what parts availability is like for them.