project89

iTrader: (1)

go pick on a 350tpi car u should walk all over it

willexoIX

I think its probably as fast as a stock v8 if not faster, it just keeps pulling too. Curious to see what would happen in 4th. But I would rather ask to see if anyone has done that without consequences before I even think about doing it.

Spark table will stay the way it is until I get the knock sensor taken care of. No evidence of det on the plugs, and I sure didnt feel or hear it.

Fuel table will keep getting tuned till its squared away. There are a couple 30kpa/600-1600rpm cells that when I let off at 60ish mph the AFR maxes lean, but no stall and not a sound. As soon as I resume on the throttle or stop, the AFR returns to normal. Ill have to add some fuel there and let the deceleration enrichments take care of that once they are enabled.

Its coming along nicely now, still working on the start though. If I keep like 1000 rpms after starting, its lean but wont stall. If the idle drops under 650-700 itll stall. I have park idle around 900-950 and in gear 750-800 and it feels great once its warm. Im thinking lack of IAC, but I should be able to tune it out or just make do till I get an MS2 processor.

willexoIX

There are a few running around out here too. White Firebird, Purple Firebird, Green Camaro, White Camaro, Red/White stripes Camaro, and as far as I know none of them are on here. I should stop and chat one day to get more Thirdgens from here on the boards.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Dont let it go to 4th gear. Thats OD and you really dont want that. And never let the TCC lock up when under boost or WOT either. Your transmission will not like you for it...

Back when I had the stock 3.23s in the rear end I topped it to 128mph in 3rd once on a long highway and that was at 5900 rpm and i had to look at the datalog to see the real MPH. But I dont do that stuff anymore...lol im getting older and really dont wish to die from a fluke.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Lol, come on now. We all know that isn't that hard. My old AMG could do it without issue.
There's some here too, come swing by Orlando. Vids of with the GoPro and I've got a DSLR. I am hoping we can get the FL meet early enough in the day I can get some good shots of all the cars.

project89

iTrader: (1)

he shoudl have 3:42;s in his if its the stock rear , u can do part throttle boost in 4th but u dont want ti to make the 3-4 shift at full throttle and full boost it will probably slip , locking up the converter at wot while under boost will also fry the clutch in the converter , u could lock it on the 1-2 shift and be fine though

the coneverter i have in my car can handle a wot/full boost lockup in any gear i have never used the lockup function though

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Is he running a stock drivetrain set up?? He needs some posi to make it fun!!

willexoIX

Either 3.43s or 3.73s. Stock drivetrain. Yea I have pushed mine that fast before the turbo, lol. A couple years ago when I was still a little stupid behind the wheel. Was just curious what would happen in 4th though. Yea I know not to lock the converter in boost. Took it to 110 in boost and it still pulls hard enough to make the front end float.

A posi would be killer, but its even fun with an open diff lol. I'm hoping we get a good turnout down in Tampa too RD.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

I've had the old 2.8 up to 115. But my trans is such a pos now with the 3.4 that it won't go much faster than 80 anymore. Needs V8/T-56.

I'm actually working on getting a roof rack for the car so I can carry a kayak, but my roof leaks come first though.

willexoIX

Dave what converter did you have in the v6? I would love to grab a converter with a much larger clutch in it.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

He had a tci which they don't make any more.. I have a cheepo pro king hd61 2800-3000 rpm advertised stall. For what you have going on that converter would make your car get going alot quicker and be fun. Its about 120 bucks from advance auto or places like that. I still can't believe it's lasted me to the 11s. So for a car that would be a 14 flat or so car it would work great.

I ran a open rear end for 1 year with the turbo setup. It was always funny watching the vids where I did a 2 wheel peal outta the burnout box with slicks...lmao

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Here is the link on the TC.
Its for a 2.8L S10 or at least thats what you would have to ask for but we all know its the same as ours anyways. Its cheeper then I remember... But like I said if your looking to just pep up the car a tad it will help you alot and drastically reduce the turbo lag. I noticed a big difference when i did the swap.

Its not the best but better then a s10 stock converter out of a junk yard and doesnt break the bank either.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/p...ter#fragment-2

willexoIX

Being its a daily I may go that route. I got a video and log, but Im not home so I will load them up when I get back. Its mostly normal driving with some WOT shots in there.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Yo Willie, you want my 3.4 some time soon? I have a lead on a V8 parts car that I'm hoping to pick up in the next week or so.

willexoIX

Dont know what I will have funds wise for it but I still want it.

The video I got was crap. The whole video looks like im going 5 mph, lol. Need a better camera.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

It'd probably be a month or two before I even thought about pulling my motor anyway. If I do pick it up its going straight to my buddies shop for a set of 180 degree headers to be made.

I have a GoPro if you wanna meet halfway one day. I can bring out my DSLR too.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

3.4L Bottom+3500 top end=Happy V6

willexoIX

Exactly what I was thinking Mark

It'll be awhile but that doesn't mean I can't start accumulating parts, lol.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

I'm always willing to help a fellow V6 guy, even if it means I get a V8 Lol. I'll always be a V6 guy.

willexoIX

You would be proud of what I will do with it 3.4 bottom end, port and polished 3500 top end, custom turbo headers and a T3/T4(Maybe see what a T4 would do?). I will also HAVE to go built trans and posi rear.

Like I said, it'll be awhile lol...

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Lol, I've got a good trans for a rebuild in the car too.

I'd like to do a high RPM single plane crank SBC with twins. But this is the V6 board lol.

willexoIX

Well, looks like I will be needing a torque converter, forgot to turn the switch off :/.

Also lost the 3-4 band, only have 1-2 gear, third slips anything over 1/4 throttle.

Is it more than the band? I need to getthe parts and do it myself, I am betting that the clutches are gone too in 3 and 4 too?

No way I can afford a shop, so anyone got any input on what I fried?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

You lost the 3/4 clutch pack, weakest part of the 700R4.

Since you have 2nd the band is OK. The band is used for 2nd and 4th gear.

While the 3/4 clutch pack is used for, wait for it, 3rd and 4th gear (I know, wise guy... )

RBob.

willexoIX

Lol, RBob, you are wise beyond your years.

So its pretty much the 3/4 clutch pack and torque converter that needs to be replaced. I would love to do a rebuild but there is no way. Would I be alright just doing those 2 things or is there more I would need? I should be able to do them myself, hardest part is not having a lift.

Edit- I just left a message for Dana at probuilt, waiting on a call back. I literally have $150 to fix this, lol. Looks like I will be learning the ins and outs of the 700. I have already watched the rebuild videos. Anyone got a 700r4 book for sale cheap?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

You forgot to turn off which switch?? Howd you wound it? Did the converter lock up or did you just run though a trans? When you do tear apart the trans make sure to take pics of the 3/4 clutch pack so we can see the carnage. Ive seen some pretty bad packs on C4 fords before from fellow racers.

I wish you lived closer. I always have a spare 700r on hand. I also have a conveter too(stock).

I dont have a 700r book but look on ebay or even visit a few librarys. Some librarys have a lot of self tough books like that.

You could also just look for one off the net or a J yard. If you can find one there usually damm cheep. The trans im running now is out of a J yard (100 bucks). Stock else then the boost valve, inter valve, vette servo, and trans go shift kit. The packs arent fried.... yet at least. about 3 k miles on this one so far since Ive used it.

willexoIX

The TCC switch, when I romped on it to pass, I didn't remember to turn it off till I felt it shudder, by then it was too late. Im going to see if I can get away with doing the 3-4 clutch pack, overhaul kit, torque converter, boost valve and corvette servo if everything checks out. I will probably have to give up some of those if the plate or anything else is damaged.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Does ms allow provisions so you can let the ecm control the tc lock up?

willexoIX

I dont remember if ms1 can, but ms2 can. I would probably set it to unlock once the tps goes above a set percentage.

I will def take pics of the clutch pack. No metal in the fluid but its burnt. I might have to get a seperator plate being its over 250k miles.

project89

iTrader: (1)

if u fried the clutch in the ocnverter everything in the trans is more then likley junk

chances are u will not be able to even pice it back together for 150 bucks even if it only needs a 3/4 pack

goto the junkyard pick up a used trans disable the lockup switch , and invest in a 12$ low revse and boost valve , and get a mega/vette servo

willexoIX

It engages, just barely though. The fluid is not completely burnt, and there isn't a mess in the fluid either. I think it is salvageable.

I would rather stick with this one than pick up a JY one with questionable history. Especially because all I lost in it was 3rd, 4th, and 95% of the TCC. The rest works just fine. 1st and 2nd still pull like a raped ape, reverse works, all else is well and the trans has been taken care of except for the current incident.

I would rather save what I have then start from scratch with a JY unit that may or may not last 100 miles.

I am currently talking with Dana@Probuilt to see what can be done.

Gfunkill

Dude, the budget u pull in winter garden has trannys for 100$ plus 25 core charge. Maybe try that instead of the risk of trying to re-work the thing on your own. I know its a little bit of a hike from your part of town, but if you can find a 700r for 100$ that works, you'll be ok. just don't forget again when to turn off that switch. OR, maybe it's time for a 5 speed, it'll go well with that setup you're running.
just my 2 cents. I feel bad for ya, if ya need some help, I dont have any cash, but I do have two spare hands on the weekends.

willexoIX

Well I have a lighted switch that I will use from now on for the TC. The only reason I want to keep mine is because I know the history and I know its been taken care of. If I can only fix it to make it another few months of mundane normal driving then I should have funds to grab another 700 and build it up.

Thanks for the help offer, I might just take you up on it. I wish I could do a manual swap but thats not gonna happen, lol. I like the 700r4, its lasted me awhile and aside from the little crap its never let me down. Hell I can still drive it but I won't till I get it fixed.

Around here, those who don't respect thirdgens beat the hell out of their cars, any car for that matter. How many repairs I have done because someone didn't check their oil or do general maintenance AT ALL. Knowing this makes me very leery on grabbing a JY trans, even with a warranty I don't want to go back and forth till I find one that works....

Gfunkill

yea, I understand ya on that. Im free on the weekends, so like I said, if ya need a hand, hit me up, you're only 30 or so minutes away, and it's not like there's any traffic out your way.

willexoIX

Yea, until I try to drive somewhere! LOL

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Party?

willexoIX

You guys bring the beer! lol

Maybe we will just have to have the Tampa gathering at my house, hahahaha

project89

iTrader: (1)

heres the deal with what ur trying to do

the converter sent all that trash threw the entire transmission it needs a full rebuild a 700r4 is not something u patch back together

u will spend less money and time buying a jy 700 and installing the above parts to make it live

u already need 80-110 bucks for a new converter u cannot reuse the one u have even if u never lock it up

ur also forgeting u need special tools to disassemble the 700 and that will blow ur budget right out of the water

ur best bet is try to find a v6 car with a t5 and see how cheap u can get the entire setup it will last longer then a stock 700r4

willexoIX

I can make all the tools and my father can if I can't, he is a machinist. the converter will be bought next month. $150 will cover most of what I need and I am not swapping to a manual. Listen, this is what I am going to do because I have a good core to work with, plus if the trans is cleaned out completely then it doesn't matter what junk the converter put into it.

1st and 2nd are fine, as well as reverse, there is nothing else wrong with it.

Borg Warner steels and frictions for the 3-4, new separator plate, new apply and backing plate, new seals all around, and anything else I find that needs to be replaced. I have every single feeler gauge, along with everything a machinist will ever need.

I can get it done and I WILL NOT sacrifice a good core for one from a JY with an unknown/questionable history.

I am fixing the 700 I have and thats that! Period!

Nothing against you Dave.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I understand what you want to do but any junkyard Tranny on a stock v6 will be fine if you can pull it yourself knowing the milage and looking over the fluid. I'm running one. It's hard to kill a 700r4 with low hp unless you either run it out of fluid, screw with the TV cable, and that's about it.


I'm all for you rebuilding the trans man. I just don't want you to take short cuts thinking you can rebuild it for 150 bucks. Crap 3 gal(12 qts capacity on your trans) of Tranny fluid is 40 bucks minimum let alone a filter and gasket kit you need.

Don't think I'm trying to change your mind I just want you to do it right and not put the cheapest parts on it. Get good parts from probuilt. Do it right the first time so you don't regret it.

willexoIX

Thats why I am making it a point to go through Dana to get this done. I am not about to use cheap parts either. I have enough fluid stocked up to change it all, I also already have a filter when I bought the kit just for the gasket. I am also going to inspect everything before it goes back together. If something is too worn/broken it will be replaced.

I am not about to half *** this and throw it back together. If I need it to sit while I accumulate more funds then it will sit. I know I have a good core and thats what I will use.

I will also not buy a used trans unless I can drive the car that it is in before it is pulled. With NO exception. Anyone can burn up a trans then swap new fluid in and clean it up and post it as a "used but good condition and working before pulled". Down here people are retarded about **** like that, I am not taking a chance.

Case in point; My friend bought a "Good running no problems" 95 mazda 626. Lasted 3 months till the head gasket went. So he paid me to do the head gaskets for him. Once I got the heads off I saw what really happened. The person who sold the car to him, blew the head gasket and put a can of the head gasket fix in it. Aluminum head and block. Needless to say he is junking the car.

I would just rather not take the chance knowing what people are capable of. It will be done right and if it takes time to finish it because I need something else, then it will wait till I get the money to get finished. I'm not just gonna swap the 3-4 clutch pack in and throw it back together.

For someone who has never done a stand alone ECM swap, or a turbo swap for that matter, and get both things done successfully, I think I can handle a 700r4 with the proper documentation and guides. I will ask for help if I need it, and it will get done right.

I just don't see the point in grabbing one from a JY, then adding parts to it, inspecting it, and hoping it'll work and its not already FUBAR. If I have a known good core, that was taken care of with regular 30k mile fluid and filter changes, that I can inspect/repair with the same money I could buy a JY trans for, then wind up dropping money twice because I wound up getting ****ed on a trans by a POS that doesn't give a rats *** about a warranty. I know how things work down here and I would much rather fix what I have, then take a chance of getting a (again) questionable transmission.

I don't disagree with what any of you are saying, I would just much rather use my core unless something is seriously damaged with it which is doubtful. Yea stuff is probably worn, but if it is worn past tolerance then it will be replaced. Like the 2-4 band and ect. 1-2 is fine, nothing needs to be replaced there but maybe seals which are covered in the overhaul kit. 3-4 clutches are like $50 through Probuilt, separator plate is cheap, backing and apply plates are cheap, yes it adds up but not counting the price on the TC, it can be done.

It will be done right without cutting corners, if it takes 2 months then it takes 2 months. It will NOT go back together without replacing what needs to be replaced. It's not like I have to throw 600-800hp worth of internals in the damn thing, 400hp would be pushing it. 350hp max would be more realistic.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

When I got a jy trans I tore it down and inspected it quite well. I assumed that anyone here thay ever got a jy one would do the same.


I know 700r4s are a roll of the dice...but keep in mind my trans guts are somewhat stock and it has roughly 120k miles on it. You see how much hp they really can take. I've made 100+ passes on it thus far and it's not ate up. It's hard to kill one from my experience when we're only tossing 140-400 hp max at them.

I do have to add something you already know. You have to make provisions to have the tcc lockup and release on its own. When I ran alky only and no intercooler, I once forgot to switch the alky on and got lucky I didn't completely blow up the car. I had a hobb switch but also a manual switch in series which was dumb on my part. Thankfully the spark adv. was retarded from the high intake air temps so it totally kill it. But it wasn't a coincidence that the following week I learned that a ringlands and ring on #6cylinder were broke.


I'm sure you can rebuild it. I've only done a shift kit and some other little things but it's not rocket science. I look forward to seeing how it turns out.

willexoIX

Well once I get this taken care of, I am going to remove the TC switch until I upgrade to a ms2 cpu. So it will prevent that from happening again.

project89

iTrader: (1)

ms1 does it as well

willexoIX

Yea I couldn't remember if ms1 did it too. I am still going to grab a ms2 cpu soon cause the starting issue is caused by not having the IAC. It will start and stall without any pedal, but if I bring it to like 2-3% on the TPS it will start and keep running. It no longer goes lean then stalls. That was fixed by adding more ASE. I could increase the idle speed to compensate but the idle is perfect so I don't wanna mess with it, lol.

willexoIX

...

willexoIX

Nevermind. Just got ahold of Dana. He is going to write me up an invoice and email it later today. Pretty much everything that will need to be replaced will be in the kit less the TC. That I will pick up next month.

Corvette servo, .500 boost valve, pre-drilled separator plate, overhaul kit with the Viton seals, 3-4 8 clutch pack with steels, and instructions etc...

I gave him the history of the trans and explained the situation to him and he pretty much said there are many more miles in the trans once the 3-4 pack is taken care of, and the little odds and ends are taken care of.

30k fluid and filter changes are what kept the trans in great condition, and he agreed with me that the delayed 2-3 shift was a symptom of the 3-4 clutch pack going out, so we all knew it was coming, just didn't expect the clutches to take about 10k miles till they fully went, lol.

And this right here is why many keep returning to Probuilt. A+ by far. Shot the breeze with him for a half an hour, real cool guy

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Danas a really good guy. I remember when streetlethal sent me his was a few years back. Very smart guy!

You will notice a big difference with a vette servo and the .500 boost valve. You will notice it doesnt flare up anymore mainly between the 2-3 shift. Mine started to get lazy on the 2-3 shift and sometimes flared a tad which is bad. The servo in the V6s are junk. At least mine was different then a V8 700r servo Part ##. Trans-go even stresses not using this specific servo that was in my trans stock.

I also have a larger intermediate valve. I guarantee you will notice harder shifts from the pumped up line pressure and less lazy shifts. You'll like it. I noticed more from the valves and servo then a shift kit, which was installed after the fact.

willexoIX

Good to know. Its a shift kit without the shift kit, lol. Yea I have heard alot of good things about him over the years on this forum, which is why I wanted to go through him first and foremost. We had a pretty good conversation about the 700, and I learned some things about the 700 that I didn't know before. Pretty good guy to talk to as well.

willexoIX

Hypothetical question here.

Involving a 3.4/3500 hybrid with a T4. Other than a completely fabricated intake, what else would it take for the motor to handle 30psi? Not just once or twice either.

I know locking head studs, forged pistons, etc. Don't tell me it cant be done, i just wanna know what would have to be done to it to make it handle that amount of boost.

Also, in more realistic talk, will the electronic speedo sensor output for a 700r4 be read by Megasquirt or does it need an input circuit? Mine has the cable driven one but after that collector blowout I had it melted the speedo cable and it no longer works.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

You'll need a more stout trans than a T5 or 700R. I'd say stronger head internals as well. But the 60*6 is a pretty stout motor as it is.