willexoIX

Since this thread is growing, I'll make a quick table of contents. I'll try to keep it as updated as possible.
NOTE-If you are using the IBAutogroup mobile app the page numbers are NOT accurate.

Quick Rundown-Full standalone install of a Megasquirt ECU. Board version 3.0 running MS1 extra code. Install of a T3 turbo off of a 85 Mercedes 300SD diesel 3L for a daily driver application using a top mount intercooler from a 1.8L VW.

Turbo is running at roughly 9.5 PSI, Let the tuning begin! 6/23/14
Finally all the bugs worked out. Was running on only 5 cylinders! 9/13/14
New/Used transmission installed 10/19/14
Rebuilt transmission installed 4/18/15
MS2 Processor installed 4/22/15

Megasquirt install pages 3-9
Teardown and starting the turbo install Page 21
Finishing up the install and first start Page 24

VIDEOS:
First startup with turbo-Page 26
Idle clip-Page 33
Couple quick pulls after swapping trans-Page 35
Burnout-Page 37

------------------Table Of Contents----------------------UPDATED 4/23/15

Page 1-General information about turbo setup, MAF discussion, ECM discussion, some injector discussion
Page 2-Piggyback Megasquirt vs standalone, Info on MS, Intercooler, WBO2, Turbo(pic), Vacuum lines
Page 3-Discussion on installation order, ECM/MS harness, MAP, MS(pic), MS wiring diagrams, Beginning MS assembly
Page 4-MS assembly(pic), Extra circuits for MS(HEI ignition, Launch/Antilag, BOOT switch), Beginning ECM harness removal
Page 5-ECM harness removal(pic), Sensor pigtails(pic)
Page 6-More harness removal(pic), Prep for MS harness install, Wiring discussions, Vacuum line removal
Page 7-MS Harness installation(pic), MS distributor wiring.....
Page 8-Finishing up the harness install, First start and datalog, Injector and idle hiccups
Page 9-IAC bypass, Idle adjustment, More injector hiccups, More datalogs, Tuning information, 12v line noise
Page 10-More tuning and datalogs, Turbo setup(pic), Bonus pic , IC discussion
Page 11-Current price list, Gasket and oiling discussion, Fasteddie and bl85c turbo pics
Page 12-Thermostat discussion, Spark dropout
Page 13-More spark dropout, AFR goals NA and Boosted(info), Dwell Settings, Datalogs and Tune
Page 14-ICM, Spark plug wires, 700R4 Trans Discussion, Panhard and Aluminum Driveshaft Discussion, PS custom Bracket(pic)
Page 15-IAT and Oil Drain bung sizes, (side project, useful info)Broken/Stripped bolt Removal(pic), No Start Issue
Page 16-(Side projects) Ashtray Switch Panel(pic), Aftermarket Tach(pic), Up and running with a datalog
Page 17-Tuning VE, AE, DE, and WE, datalogs...
Page 18-Noise, Rotor phasing, Resets solved by correcting the rotor phasing
Page 19-Misfire solved by blocking EGR, EGR block off plates, TCC talk, Accumulated parts for the turbo setup (pics)..
Page 20-Oil bug locations, Still have misfire, Intercooler discussion, Welded EGR intake block off plate
Page 21-Dizzy rotor mod, Starting teardown and prep for turbo install, working out the details...
Page 22-Turbo header modification(pic), Heater hose delete
Page 23-Header wrap(pic), Oil pan bung(pic), Side project, Valve lash
Page 24-Downpipe(pic), Finishing up the install and first start and first drive with logs
Page 25-Troubleshooting boost controller leak and collector blowout(pic), Custom building exhaust(pic), IC vent on hood(pic)
Page 26-Fixing Xover pipe, Startup(vid), more Xover leaks(pic), Cracked headers(pic)
Page 27-Constant oil return leak discussion, Check valves, Oil feed restrictor, Exhaust manifold gaskets(pic)
Page 28-Spark table(pic), Tuning spark table, Datalog, Knock sensing circuit for Megasquirt(pic)
Page 29-SA tuning, VE tuning, Working on intake routing(pic), Talking about meth injection, Oil feed leak
Page 30-Copper hard line oil feed installation(pic), Copper hard line discussion, Proposed compressor wheel upgrade 45trim VS 60 trim(pic), Discovery of dead cylinder
Page 31-High air temp, Hood scoop fabrication(pic), Completed hood scoop(pic), Initial results with hood scoop
Page 32-Transmission talk, Whoops! Took out the 3-4 clutches!
Page 33-What boost really means, Pipe dream build, Electronic VSS discussion, Idle clip(vid), Trans part discussion
Page 34-Corvette Servo, .500 and .296 boost valves installation(pic), Trans filter oring option(pic), Identify the TC(pic)
Page 35-Pulling and swapping current trans(pic), What clutch material in the pan looks like(pic), Turbo oil drain location issue(pic), My fix for poor quality new TV cable(pic), Back up and running with a couple quick pulls(vid)
Page 36-Used transmission talk, Detonation(or is it?), Teardown of the original 700R4(pics), Spark dropout
Page 37-Plug wire holders(pic), Burnout video, Multec injector failure(not mine(pic)), New tires(pic), Oil weight discussion
Page 38-Laying down the hurt. New pillar gauges(pic), Trans discussion
Page 39-Tuning info, Goodies(pic), Rebuilding the trans(pic)
Page 40-New trans is in and working, Adjustable panhard(pic), Purchase and install of the MS2 cpu
More to come, Stay tuned!

------------------------------------Original post below---------------------------------------------

I have read through the numerous turbo guides as well as other areas.
I will be purchasing the kit that bl85c is selling.

Now I am not going for as much power as I can get. I'm going for a fun DD setup adding yet another turbo v6 Thirdgen to the mix, with all the turbo civics running around, with young kids that don't know how to tune, and think those fly away wings make a difference on a FWD car..

Im looking for the best way to make it a reliable car with power when I want/need it.

Its an 89 2.8/700r4, which is well taken care of and maintained. MAF car which from what I read will handle up to 12 or so PSI. The t3/t4 turbo runs approximately 6-8 PSI with what I am assuming is an internal waste gate.

I know I would want to get a Wideband O2 and boost gauge, looking to find some good stuff on a budget. Also I would like to use this opportunity to learn how to tune, i'm assuming I have the 7730 ECM, is this correct?

I have a smaller VW IC that I will be using with the setup, and I'll be doing the vacuum EGR delete, and the cruise control delete. Also thinking about deleting the evap canister. I'd like to get some opinions/pointers on all the vacuum lines that need to be capped, rerouted, etc, to make sure everything else functions properly.

I have had that pesky code 32, replaced the egr, cleaned the carbon, and have narrowed it down to the solenoid, needless to say I am taking it out and will program out the code 32 if I have read correctly.

OK, tuning. I'm wanting to go the cheapest possible route, Tunerpro, with an ALDL plugin, not too hard for me because I mess with electronics daily. So, what all would I need for burning chips on the cheap? Or maybe using a base Bin file that I can work off of? Even a pre tuned chip that I can slap in? What do you guys think?

I have been reading the tuning section, the numerous turbo threads, and am trying to pin down the best route to get this done. Also looking for some pointers on what specifically has to be done to make room for bl85c's setup, which I will probably wait for bl85c's input as its his original setup (i think).

Sorry for the long post but I want to nail this setup the best I can for my first turbo install.

project89

iTrader: (1)

buy a megasquirt 1 v 2.2 or 3.0 and done with it dont look back, the maf system will hold u way back

the megasquirt has a higher outlay cost versus tunning the stock ecm but the stock ecm ( maf ) is no good

u could swap to a 7730 and code 59 but u will spend just as much money


oh and a wideband 02 sensor is a must , i did my first turbo install with the stock narrow band but i dont recomend that at all

edit if u do get the ms ecm i can supply u with a good base tune to get u started

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

If you have MAF (which would be what the 2.8L has) then you don't have the '7730, I don't recall your ECM service number off hand.

I would recommend keeping the EGR, I have ALWAYS found that an engine runs better with an EGR as opposed to not having one. It may also be needed for where you live to be compliant with emissions and road worthiness.

For tuning I would recommend Tuner Pro RT and an EPROM Emulator, like the Ostrich 2.0. Real time tuning makes the tuning game quite quick. If you want to burn EEPROMs, I would recommend the BURN2, since it will automatically set the proper offsets when using Tuner Pro RT.

I use 14point7.com wideband products. I have for about 5 or 6 years. I've also used the Innovate LC1 (a couple of them) and prefer the 14point7 products by far.

project89

iTrader: (1)

maf is what 702 or 302 ecm , the vacum egr valve will open under high backpresure conditions, thats why i deleted mine from the 2.8 when i turboed it

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

The EGR shouldn't open when done right.

willexoIX

Alright fellas, seen you two disagree on the egr in a couple other threads, lol. Keep it civil please. EGR is going, thats for sure as i dont think the egr port is on the turbo headers. Plus no emissions or inspection where i am and an 89 is real close to being exempt with classic/QQ plates.

Thanks for the responses, lets try not to clutter too much, this will also be the build thread once I get started.

I think I would like to do the realtime option, tuning the existing chip, dont want to get too far into burning as that would probably raise the cost. Six whats a price range on that if you have it right offhand?

Also I read somewhere that a V8 MAF will register more flow, like 255gms compared to the 150 on the V6 MAF, will that be able to be used with the current ECM or would I have to swap? Re-pinning doesn't intimidate me, I have done it before on a V8 swap, as long as you pay attention it isnt to hard, just all those damn wires, lol

Im probably not gonna push over 12PSI, MS would be out of budget. I have done programming before so tuning should be a little easier for me to pick up when I start.

Also, I currently have no cat, and pretty much no exhaust pipe, I cut the flange off of the cat, and welded it on a thrush welded muffler which is where the cat was with about 6 inches of pipe pointed down, man its nasty loud, sounds like a monster, lol.. Muffler a bad idea with a turbo? I am not opposed to just a short straight pipe either.

Keep in mind, I am NOT going for as much as I can get with a turbo setup, this is a DD. And will stay as such, this is a learning opportunity for me, and I would probably be happy with 10PSI to be honest.

Six thanks for pointing me to the wideband products, keep the pointers coming!!!

willexoIX

ok so I forgot where I saw it, it was on a GM diesel page, making and aldl cable with an arduino chip and usb cable. That would only work with datalogging or would there be a way to burn the stock chip with it?

My mistake on the burning, ill have to burn if i tune, lol.

So whats the cheapest route to burn or start with a base tune? Burn2 with an ALDL cable and laptop running tunerpro?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I wouldnt worrie about the cat. but for a street driver you'll want some sort of muffler on there. The turbo cuts the rasp sound but it will still be pretty loud and personally i didnt like how loud mine was except for at the race track. It was too loud for crusiing let alone when the wastegate opened up, the screamer pipe was petty innoying. Pipe the wastegate relief back into the exhaust, post turbo and you'll enjoy the car a WOT alot more IMO.

I use a aldl cable from aldlcables.com, a burn2 chip burner from moats and a gp1 chip and adapter kit from moates also. It cost about 180 bucks IIRC total to get to burning. Then use Tunerpro RT which is a free software program unless you donate some cash.

U can not burn the stock chip. You need to use a 27sf512 chip from moates or equivalent.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Opps I just saw that ur running a internal wg. Dissregard my comment on the screamer pipe

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

The stock EPROM can be reprogrammed, it just requires another piece of equipment to erase the EPROM. It is also not recommended because some stock EPROMs have been known to be easily damaged on a 1st erase or 2nd burn.

willexoIX

Car has no cat, and I'm not putting one on. just the muffler where the cat used to be.

I can build an arduino aldl cable for less than 10 bucks.

So burn2, gp1 chip and adaptor? thats it? Will I also need the 27sf512 chip or no?
Well once I figure what ecm is in the car, its a vin S if that matters.

Can I run it without a tune on say 6psi?
And what about that V8 MAF?
Also what vacuum lines need to be capped and rerouted for the EGR, CC, Canister delete? the info is sporadic at best.

willexoIX

Moates.net seems to be down for me. Internal Server Error

Reading up on the gp1 adaptor now. So with the burn2, ill be pulling the chip out to burn correct?

The gp1 package comes with 2 27sf512 chips and the ZIF, which will make it easier to pull chips to burn with the Burn2, correct?

camaroyoungster

With the turbo build I want to do, I was thinking of going with an Ls1 maf if that would work.

AutoRoc

iTrader: (1)

Post pics when you get stuff situated!

willexoIX

Thats the V8 MAF I was talking about, just need to find more info.

@ AutoRoc, you bet!

camaroyoungster

Well I think the LS1/LT1 Maf out flows the TPI maf because I thought you were talking about the TPI maf.

willexoIX

TBH i dont know if the lt1/ls1 and tpi MAF are the same, I just read on another thread that the v6 MAF reads like max 155gms, compared to the V8 MAF reading like 255gms or something to that effect. I'd wait till someone chimes in with proper info before you go on what I said. It also just said V8 so I assume 305/350 TPI. Correct me if I am wrong.

project89

iTrader: (1)

its not what the maf flows it whats it reads , the v6 maf is a frequency maf , trhe lt1/ls1 are 0-5volt mafs arent they

willexoIX

True, but what about a frequency multiplier? I worked with frequencies in electronics engineering. Should just have to modify some parameters in the tune or no?

Edited my above post to correct flow with read, oops, lol. thats what I meant

project89

iTrader: (1)

u would need a maf converter to convert the 0-5 volt to the correct freq

u would setup the converter to do the conversion of x amount of volts = x amount of freq then u would tune the maf tables to add the correct fueling


what u need to do as far as i know is find what other mafs are freq mafs and see for how much airflow they are calibraterd for and use one of those

i belive blc has a hack for the ecm for using a ford maf

project89

iTrader: (1)

when i did my 2.8 before switching to a megasquirt system i ran my stock maf on the turbo inlet,it worked enough to run and drive reliably but it left alot of power ont he table

willexoIX

Thats why I mentioned a frequency multiplier, using it to effectively double the capability of the v6 MAF, and tuning the computer to recognize it. Depending on if its square wave or otherwise.

Anyone know what wave is used by the MAF to be recognized by the ECM?

Ill research some other frequency MAFs and see what I come up with.

willexoIX

You answered my other question though, where to put the MAF, lol

willexoIX

Hmmmm, this has me thinking... Needs to handle a better temp range though unless its isolated pretty well. LM231 Voltage to frequency converter

http://www.ti.com/product/lm231#technicaldocuments


oops again, temps are in celsius


Operating Ambient Temperature
LM231, LM231A −25°C to +85°C
LM331, LM331A 0°C to +70°C
Supply Voltage, VS +4V to +40V


Look good?

Could even do it with a 555 timer

willexoIX

also found,
3300 (LG7)

A smaller 3.3 L 3300 was introduced in 1989 and produced through 1993. It is effectively a lower-deck version of the 3800, with a smaller 3.7 in (93.98 mm) bore and 3.16 in (80.26 mm) stroke for 3,340 cc (204 cu in).[3] Like the 3800, it used a cast iron block and heads, push rods, and hydraulic lifters. Unlike the 3800, however, it used a batch-fire injection system rather than sequential injection, as evidenced by the lack of a cam position sensor. It also did not have a balance shaft. Power output was 160 hp (119 kW) at 5,200 rpm and 185 lb·ft (251 N·m) at 2,000 rpm with a 5,500 rpm redline.

anyone know if its voltage or frequency MAF? or what it can read?

willexoIX

found some excellent info on MAF for anyone interested.

http://www.wellsve.com/sft503/Counterpoint3_2.pdf

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Yes you'll be pulling the chip out. Its a nice, easy, and a low cost set up. It takes longer to tune then a emulator but still works good IMO. And once you get a grasp on what your set up needs, it goes along pretty fast. Have you decided on a Ecm or MS yet? Do you have the 302 ecm in your car? Its takes a tad more and a different adapter to make work unless you swap over to a 165 ecm. I wouldn't think it would take too much $$ to swap in a 7730 and turn your car over to speed density. Just some detailed wiring and a harness from the 7730.

My opinion is that speed density is easier to tune exspecially for boosted applications. Now i'm sure some will disagree but I've played with others thirdgen MAF and the MAF set up on my old L67 Grand prix and Its just a tad more complicated then I like to see. I guess it comes to personal preference as I learned how to tune on speed density and I am definitely, no expert



You can run the car without a tune....with very little boost when you have a MAF set up but you will max your injectors out fast! Honestly its just not worth the risk IMO. At the very least you need to be able to adjust the timing and fuel delivery. A AFPR, wideband, colder plugs, and a way to retard the timing is the minimum I would recommend.

Trust me boost is addictive if you haven't had a turboed car before and you'll want to jack the boost up in no time.

willexoIX

Id like to go ecm once i figure out which one I have, just gotta feel like looking. I would like to tune the MAF, and am looking to see if I can find a compatible frequency MAF from another car, If not I could probably whip together a voltage to frequency converter pretty easy with what I have in my electronics toolbox to use a V8 MAF.

Itll be a learning process for sure but I tend to pick things up rather fast so either way I go I'll make it work.

The turbo kit hes throwing in 22lb/hr injectors and I am hoping they are disc injectors. I swapped the 15lb pintle injectors to 19lb disc injectors and went to hotter plugs cause I increased airflow into the motor to keep it from running rich. Still runs a tad rich at times but the 5 inch RA duct to the airbox I made seems to lean it out more. Cold air definately helps, although it sucks I put that time into the airbox and now Im about to rip it out, lol.

If the turbo has an internal wastegate can I still do a bleed switch to jump up the boost?

camaroyoungster

How would you exactly start tuning with a map without blowing it up? Like I mean first time start up. Does the map sensor compensate for boost or do you have to tell it where to start at?

willexoIX

01227302 on the ECM.
So what makes the 302 harder to tune? It looks like a standalone prom chip that is removable. Can I not just pop that one out and pop a burnt chip in? That seems like that is the chip you replace when you buy a preburnt chip.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Just get your hands on a MAF translator for a turbo buick and reconfigure it from the 7148 application to the 7302, and use an LT1 MAF. Few people on the Buick boards have done this with other OBD1 ECM's and the translators are cheap enough nowadays anyway...

http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/ite...=050BUICKTRANS

willexoIX

Wow, really? $200 bucks for something I can build for $10? Im an electronics engineer, its not too hard considering I have the ICs and everything else in my toolbox.

Not trying to be a dick but that price is outrageous considering what their cost is to manufacture...

Then again, to each their own, if you don't have the knowledge then you pay the price..

Thanks for the link tho

here is whats inside..
http://www.electroschematics.com/479...speed=noscript

2 ICs, 5 caps, 2 pots, 5 diodes, 8 resistors and a board.

thats one of many different ways, and you can tweak using a potentiometer for resistance, or by swapping out capacitors to get it where it needs to be. thank god for the protoboard

willexoIX

That wasn't directed towards you Street Lethal, I apologize If you think that it was, that's not what I was aiming for. Just thought it was a little high on price that's all.

To call me arrogant and pathetic is completely uncalled for. After all I did thank you for the link didn't I?

Back on topic.
After doing a little more research, I may just go with the GN MAF, cause it seems to work with the same hertz range as the v6 MAF, Just some tuning to tweak it. How much PSI do you think it could run before maxing out the 255gms limit?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Just giving you a heads up... 22lbs injectors will be maxed out fast. I maxed my grandnational ones fast and there 28lbs IIRC. I still have them though so if you need them let me know and ill give them to ya cheep.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i bet u have enough parts laying around u could build a ms for around 96 bucks


this is the pcb map sensor and cpu
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/p...-kit-p-91.html
or u can buy everything for 157
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/m...ase-p-128.html

just about the same cost as the tuning hardware

edit heres a list of compnents u will need if u buy a partial kit
http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mass.htm

u wont need all of them since u will be setting it up for distributor ignition

id didnt relize u could solder otherwise id have suggested it sooner

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

That looks like something fun to do, they used to have kits like that for almost anything.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Don't get hung up on electronics, the Ford MAF is easy to use and it will measure enough air for what you want to do with that motor. Here's a link to the '165 ecm swap. This isn't my original setup, I used cast manifolds with that one but it's very close.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Have u heard of Ebl flash ? I'd contact RBob if I were u @ DynamicEFI.com ...
Screw the chip burning crap .. I started out with mail order tunes and went to the Ebl flash best 350$ I've spent on my car hands down !

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You could get an Ostrich too, real time programming and all that fun stuff without chips.

willexoIX

28lbs will handle around 280hp give or take, correct? I know they don't exactly equal out like that but IIRC they are close. Shoot me a PM on those injectors when you get a chance.

Thats a good Idea right there, may go that route. How is MS when piggybacked? Or better off standalone?

Do you know offhand if its hot-film or hot-wire? What does it max out, and whats the easiest ford to find one on. That may be a JY part cause I can test them.


Whats you opinion on the MS? I have the not well supported 302 ECM, So its gonna be either a swap or MS. Although I love the Idea of ostrich, just not the price tag. But if I can do that with MS in realtime that seems to be the cheapest route.

My dad is gonna give me the cash for the setup, anything else I need is gonna be a loan from him, which is why I am going as low as I can. I know its not going to be as cheap as I would like it to be, But I would like to cut corners if its not detrimental. I mean, it will be done right, me and my father are both mechanics so this shouldn't be too bad, But it will be my first on tuning and turboing.

Thanks for the tips and keep them coming!

willexoIX

One more question for the hybrid guys. I have a small port 3100 sfi top end in my shed off of a 1996 buick century custom(all intake, fuel rail, the injectors are currently in the 2.8, heads with valves, rollers and pushrods with the roller lifters, coil packs, etc. The ENTIRE top end). Any of that can be direct swapped over? I was thinking about the valve springs, if they have a higher spring rate than the 2.8 ones to deal with valve float. Will they work and whats the comparison spring rates?

willexoIX

Ok, just looked over the MS and I have 85% of the components in my box, AWESOME!
So looks like I'll be going MS

project89

iTrader: (1)

it works great piggy backed , except ms will need its own coolant and air temp sensors , if u piggy back it and hook to those 2 sensors the reading gets cut in half to both the ms and the stock ecm

being as u have a 2.8 u can remove the sensor for the cold start injector , and screw in a coolant temp sensor in its place

and then in the air pipe from the intercooler u install the second air temp sensor

the 2.8 factory timing curve will work with boost so to make tuning to start easy u can run in piggy back mode controlling fuel only , then once u get a handle on tunning its only 2 addition wires to hook up to control the ignition system

the only isue with running piggy back is u have to leave the maf hooked up or the factory ecm will not control the timing correctly , ask me how i found that one out lol

as far as the hybrid route u would have to change the pistons as well or compression will be way to high

willexoIX

Well not as in hybrid swap, i was looking to see if the 3100 valve spring are stronger than the 2.8 springs and if they are a direct swap without modification.

Heres a pic of the VW IC that I have laying around, thinking of making a small scoop and hole in the hood to cut down on tubing. Think its a good one to start with? Even as I shouldn't need an IC at low boost it'll still perform better with one correct?

Also this is the part of intermediate pipe I cut off when I got rid of the cat and put the muffler there. Its original 2.5 inch, would it suffice to be used as the downpipe or should I go 3 inch? Also not crazy on the bends in the stock pipe :/

So if I do standalone MS I dont need a MAF cause its going to MAP?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

There's nothing really from the 3100 that can be swapped over as a benefit. Yes, the valve springs could be swapped, but there would be no advantage or gain to this that would be noticeable. If it has the stamped rockers, you could use them, they will be 1.6:1 ratio, but I wouldn't bother. I also believe that the last year for the stamped rockers was '95.

Swapping over the top end would be a good step though. This would require more changes, and at that point I would get the larger port 3400 or 2000+ 3100 top end for more gain.

I would still go Delco EFI. too many people I know have had issues with MS. That being said I do want to get one to get more hands on experience with them, but I just can't justify the cash outlay for something that I don't plan on keeping. Maybe I'll go through my boxes of electronics and see if I have most of the parts to do it cheap. Hmmm....

project89

iTrader: (1)

if ur using a full t3 turbo u could cut up that stock pipe for the downpipe , if its a t3/t4 i would put a nice 2.5 inch minimum downpipe on it

if u do the ms and control fuel and spark u do not need the maf at all

with the ms u have a choice use the onboard map sensor , or u can get an ls1 or other 0-5v maf and use it instead of the map sensor

i prefer the map , but some ppl like the maf better

six if u just want to play around with it get the partial ms1 kit v2.2 as its the cheapest at 96 bucks , whatever compnents u dont have are very cheap to buy at radio shack or digi key , even if u had to buy all the compnents it would cost around 30 bucks

while the v2.2 isnt the best compared to a 3.0 it will work for ur needs, the v2.2 can run the ms2 and ms3 processors , though the ms3 is a lil tricker to setup on a 2.2

the ms2 cpu is plug in and ur good to go

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't waste my time with a V2.2 board, I did at one time compare them and decided that the V3.0 board was the way to go. The V5.57 board was also not what I would want, since it lacks the prototyping area and is less through hole design than the V3.0. making any repairs or modifications more difficult.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i agree 3.57 is nice for somone who cant solder as its a preassembled smd board and has jumpers for switching setups instead of having to solder in jumper leads

i used to always use the 2.2 board but now all of them i build for myself or others are always 3.0 board,s as they are much better for low -z injectors , better grounding , and better miswire protection, not to mention proto area

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

It's an analog 0-5 volt wire MAF and it can measure 260 g/sec. Mine came off a '96 4.6 T-bird but you can find them on v6 T-birds too. You're looking for one with a rectangular connector not the oval connector. The oval connectors have a different flow curve and flow less.

There's an old hotrodding adage- you can build a car fast, cheap or reliable, pick 2.

I haven't used a MS before, but I find Delco ECM's are less user intensive, have better control of accessories and are better engineered. If cheap is your goal you can get a JY ECM for $40, a programmer for $30 and an EEPROM for $5. Project89 is right, the '302 handles spark very well with turbocharging since it has an IAT spark retard table so if you want to piggyback the MS on it that would work well until you get a table worked out on the MS. The injectors I'm throwing in are disk BTW.

willexoIX

Money is in, time to start spending )))

I pick cheap and reliable. Time isn't an issue at this point but I will be going pretty quick. Hey project, think you could shoot that base tune for MS my way?


Ok so going to go the MS 2.2 route. If I piggyback and use the MAP sensor with the MS can I get rid of the MAF? Easiest to take the MAF out of the picture which would mean less cost.

also,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-VR6-92-99-Golf-Jetta-Passat-36lb-355cc-fuel-injectors-0280155811-/251341611114?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a8520a06a&vxp=mtrWill they work? I want to get the fuel taken care of off the rip, and I honestly don't think I will have a need to go higher than that for the first build.

Other things I am looking at,
What all needs to be done for a FULL EGR, cruise, and evap canister delete??? De-cluttering the engine right before the build.