the car idles too low now its like almost below 500 when i put on the brakes at the stop light and it wants to cut off so i gotta drive w/ two feet now please tell me if U know any exact causes of this problem or any ideas

well hows your timing? do you have any vacuum leaks? is your IAC operating right? Are there any codes from the comp?

i dont have that thingy that tells me codes from the computer and i have no clue as to what IAC is and the vacuum hoses are fine i thinks
please give me more help

Ok is the SES light on? If it is then take a paper clip unbend the ends. At your DIAG port. above fuse block about 3 inch long 1 inch tall has abunch of plugs. Tkae the paper clip WITH THE CAR OFF and put 1 end in the upper right hans side, and the other in the slot right beside it at the same level.

ok slots are numbered like this. going from top righ to top left abcdef. Tkae the 2 ends of the paper clip and put 1 in "A" and the other in "B". Then turn the key to the "ON" position DO NOT START IT. The SES light will begin flashing. it will repeat stored codes 3 times. 12 is automatic. Check the codes and post those (If any).

check TPS sensor (black sensor on the right side (passenger) of the throttle body. there is a specific voltage that it should be (listed in your manual), but you'll need a multimeter to do this.


also check you timinig by unhooking the brown wire (passenger side firewall (follow wire loom)) and then set your idle timing on that. plug it back in when done, and it'll adjust.

Check your EGR valve. It may be getting a little stuck and allowing to much exhuast in the intake at the wrong times. Get a finger under the EGR and push up. If it moves up and down freely your cool. If it hangs up or gets stuck take it off and free up the shaft. Shoot a little WD-40 on it and a work it for a few min. Put back on and take for a test run.

If the EGR is only hanging up and not getting stuck completly it wont all ways set a code.


Also check all of the usual suspects, plugs and wires, cap and rotor, air filter, ETC... If any one of these are in bad enough shape they can cause this problem. They can even keep a car from starting.

ok what is an EGR valve and where is it located and whats it look like

2. the SES lite doesnt come on at all

3.i have new plugs cap and rotor already too

4.tell me more about the timing please cuz that shop i took it to at the beginning of this month was supposed to check it and fix it if needed

The shop may have set the timing to stock specs, but depending on your millage and age of your timing chain this may not be the best setting for it. Do you have a timing light?

If you do disconect the EST and check it. Stock spec is 10 BTDC. I have a high millage engine and worn timing chain so my car didn't run well set at 10*. So I set it at 13*. If you have a high millage engine I would first try 11* or 12* BTDC.


EGR= Exhuast Gas Recircilation (SP?)

It should be connected to the passenger side of the exhuast manifold right next to the valve cover. If you have a 2.8L it will kinda look like a UFO. If you have a 3.1L I looks wierd ( I can't think of how to describe it). Plus it's harder to test and cost more to replace then the one on the 2.8L. If you have a 3.1L let me know and I will post a picture a long with a way test it.


Also double check your plug wires. The #1 plug can be difficult to get in on all the way. It somtimes feels like it is but it is not. Just tug on the wires and see if they come off. Don't pull hard though, you don't want to rip them off. If one of is not on there all the way the spark will have to jump a gap and lose energy before it gets to the spark plug.

e-mail me at time_to_shine@hotmail.com, i have the answers to most of the idle problems with camaros...


mike

hey BitchnRS! whats up i still need help

my engine is 3.1 LHO v6 rebuilt

what is EST stand for ? never heard of it
and also BTDC ?
and where would i locate the EST thingy and how to disconnect or tell me specific details of how to test using timing light cuz my dad got one i could borrow



:lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: <--he's a kool lets watch la la dance

About the Timing. TDC= Top dead center.

Timing

Buy Haynes manual. There will be no regrets.

Okay, what you do is find the grove in your harmonic ballancer. --
-Its on the crank.
-Grab a piece of chalk.
-Run the chalk along the grooves a few times.
-above the balancer there is a plate with #'s on it. Clean off so you can read them at ease.
-Unhook EST. Should be in the wiring harness passenger side tan wire with black strip I believe.
-hook timing light to battery, and #1 spark plug.
-Start car, now when the light flashes see if the chalk line lines up with 10* mark. If not you will need to loosen the dist.
-Then turn it till you are at 10*
-If your car has some miles on it, its good to set it up a few degrees--- as the miles climb the timing chain stretches.
-So you might want to try 13-16* for timing.
-Retighten distributor and, shut off car. Unhook timing light, take for a drive.
-If you don't like the results, play with it a little.
-Not too much though you don't want to screw it up.

EST= Electronic Spark Timing

BTDC= Before Top Dead Center.


All long with every one else I recomend picking up a Chilton's or haynes repair manual for your car. I have both. Best investment I ever made!!!


Here is a picture of the EST wire to help you out.




I would definetly check your timing first, but if you need to check you EGR valve here's how.

Disconect the metal tube that attaches to the uper intake. it will look like a flexable pipe that they use on gas stoves. Make sure you sett the gasket aside. It is reusable. Start your car and see if the problems continues. If the problem has gone away your EGR valve is sticking open.

Here is a picture of the EGR valve. My haynes book says that they are only servicable by replacing them, but I say if it has bolts you can open it up. Only draw back is the the gaskets for the EGR are dealer only. I've seen a semi cut a way of one and it seems that it could be cleaned, but my G/F threw my old one a way before I could open it up. All most forgot the EGR valve is number 2 in the picture.

ok imma talk to my dad about this
thanx for putting up with my crap
i hate idle problems grrrrrr!! :hail:

no prb. They can be tricky to track down!

Why don't you just increase the idle speed more?

That only corrects the symptom not the problem. All though it is a good temporay fix.

Cleaning out the throttle body helps, don't use carb/choke cleaner, use the stuff sold next to it, for fuel injected motors. Pull your spark plugs and make sure that they're gapped to spec (0.045") and not any larger.

You have a non-adjustable TPS, so you can't adjust idle voltage, but if the TPS is bad, it should be replaced.

If your IAC motor's pintle (and corresponding IAC passageway) is dirty, it can kill your idle. The IAC passageway and motor pintle get carbon'd up from the EGR operation, and they can clog. The IAC motor allows air to get past your throttle blades (when the throttle's closed) and into the engine. So if that clogs up, you get no air.

Buy "air intake and throttle body cleaner for fuel injected engines", next to the carb/choke cleaner. Car off. Disconnect IAC's 4-pin connector. (IAC's on the top passenger side of your throttle body.) Unscrew the IAC with a large open-ended adjustable wrench, and try to keep in mind how tight the motor is screwed in. Remove the motor. There'll be an arrow-shaped pintle at the end of the motor. Hold the motor so the pintle points DOWN. Spray the pintle clean. DO NOT LET THE CLEANER DRIP INSIDE THE MOTOR!! If you point the pintle down, this can't happen. Wipe the pintle (and spring) off with a towel, and put it somewhere safe.

Remove the air intake tube to the throttle body. Attach the little red spray tube to the can of cleaner. Look inside the hole where you removed the IAC motor from; you'll see a smaller hole- this is the IAC passageway. Spray the cleaner into this hole. You should see carbon run out of the front passenger side of your throttle body. Keep spraying until the carbon thins out.

Screw the IAC motor back into the throttle body, and tighten it as it was before. DON'T OVERTIGHTEN! The IAC motor is steel, the TB is weaker aluminum, and you don't want to strip the threads in the TB.

Reconnect the 4-pin connector. Wipe the front of the throttle body clean of carbon from the IAC passageway. Reattach the TB hose. Start the car, go for a ride, and tell me how it goes.

Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't this also be a symptom of a malfunctioning torque converter clutch? Judging from the change of idle when hitting the brakes, since hitting the brakes a) turns off the cruise control, b) turns on the brake lights and c) activates the torque converter clutch. Unless the voltage of the brake lights, or the centrifugal force of the tranny is causing it to idle crappy, wouldn't it make sense then that that torque converter clutch or TCC solenoid could be bad?

How's it idle in park?

How's it idle in neutral with the ebrake on?

FWIW I have a similar problem with my V6 bird, but I haven't had a chance to mess with it since I put the car in storage... and the weather has been too nasty to screw with it. The car wants to stall anytime I come to a stop after driving at speed... when I hit the brakes it tries to die, if I let em go it'll burp and run fine... of course this doesn't work out too well when you're trying to stop. In my case the car runs basically fine in park and neutral. Also in my case I replaced the TCC solenoid last summer with a used one from my junk tranny... I suppose the donor trannies TCC solenoid could have been on its way out also...

If we're both experiancing the same problem, I can tell you its not timing related, and probably not carbon build up related, and I'd like any suggestions anyone has. If there are none I suppose I'll drop $20 on a new TCC solenoid and drop the pan again when the weather warms up...

Drew, it's the same EXACT thing for my 92. If you EVER find out what it is, let everyone on the v6 section know please. It seems to be quite a problem among us. Thank you.

The TCC thing may be possible, but I have no idea. I have never owned an auto trany before. Only sticks. I had this problem when I got my car, and a lot of little things like vaccum lines and crap. This has brought the situation under controll but not fix it completly. I think TomP may be on the correct course with the IAC. Mine was clogged like a big dog, but there might be a problem with doing this. I read some ware about the IAC and ECm on the 3.1L's. Some thing a long the lines of having to use a scan tool to correctly adjust it for the ECM any time that power is taken from the IAC or if it is removed. I will look into this more and post what I find about it. If anyone knows if this holds any water please let me know.

Currently I have gotten my to idle stable, but it idles at around 1K. All though I think this may not be a correct reading. When I got my car smoged the print out said it was idling at 850 RPM. It may be possible that my problem was fixed, bu tthe tach is reading incorectly.

Ok I just looked up the IAC info in both my Haynes and Chilton's book. The haynes really didn't give any information, but the Chilton's did.

The IAC does need to be reset by a scan tool any time battery power is removed. Here's the passage.


Just something to chew on. So this means that any time we remove the battery to do work on our car we (those of us with 3.1L's) need to use the scan tool to reset it. Seems kinda screwed up, but it may solve the problem.

take the air intake tube off of the carb.
use WD40 spray it in there and clean it...ALOT...
then, take out your idle screw(or timing screw whatever you wanan call it) use the wd40 to clean it and then greace it up...i had the same problem, and after putting a new o2 sensor, a new computer, new thermostat, my mechanic tapped the sides of my EGR valve with a wrench...just strike it, not hard enough to dent it of course, because there are three pumps inside the camaro EGR valve, and sometimes if one of them gets stuck, when you step on the brake, and your idle drops, the car might shut down on ya... when i did this, i saw a cloud of dust come out...
unless you disconnect your EGR (which some people do) then dont worry about that...
clean the carb and the idle screw, as well as the rest of the air intake manifold. incase ya dont know, wd40 is harmless on whatever ya put it on, it will clean, then just evaporate...
clean the air intake manifold, the carb, the idle screw, and tap the EGR valve abit


any questions, write me at time_to_shine@hotmail.com

As stated in the bible... (91 Firebird shop manual, helms manual, etc..)

First it says if you're installing a new valve to measure between the tip of the pintle (pointy end) and the mounting flange, if its over 28mm, gently push the pintle in.

BTW it also says not to push or pull the pintle on a used IAC as it can damage it.

Then it says:
5. Reset IAC valve pintle position:
a. Turn ignition "ON" for five seconds.
b. Turn ignition "OFF" for ten seconds.
c. Start engine and check for proper idle operation.

Doesn't sound that difficult, does it?

This is the best reason to not trust a chiltons or haynes manual. This is on page 6E3-C2-16 3.1L (VIN T) Driveability and emissions.

Plus, I believe resetting an old IAC motor only needs to happen if you turn the key "on" with the IAC motor removed from the TB, but still plugged into the wiring harness. I'd definately trust Drew's GM book over the Haynes/Chilton's any day. In fact, I think my GM book has the same procedure for the '86 2.8.

But don't discount that TCC; Drew's right, a sticking TCC will cause the car to stall. But TCC engagement would only occur after the engine has warmed up, and if it was driven over 35ish MPH. If you just let the car warm up, and don't go over 25 mph (cruise around the block, I guess?), will the car want to stall?

Oh- you could, for diag purpose only, unplug the TCC connector from the trans. Crawl under the car, the TCC connector's on the driver's side of the trans, at the back, above the trans fluid pan. Gently release the connector from the trans, and use some kind of wire to tie it out of the way so it doesn't snag/burn on anything. This will prevent the TCC from going into lockup- so if the problem still occurs (rough idle), you know it's not the TCC.

You can also unplug it under the dash fromt he brake switch... its a pink and purple wire into a black plug if I remember correctly. When my first one went out it blew the fuse... which by the way is the same fuse that runs the guages.

And rear defrost, and about 10 other items... Have a look in the owners manual sometime for a good laugh, if that fuse blows you can easily spend a week checking each subsystem that could be causing it to wig out.

whats IAC ? where is it?
and yes it idles just fine in park and neutral only in Drive does it idle bad

The IAC is the other sensor in the TB... you've got the TPS which is on the throttle shaft, then the IAC. If it idles fine in park and neutral is probably a TCC problem. Try disconnecting the wiring from the brake pedal switch... if its fine then you can either leave it be, which could cause the tranny to melt down, and will definitely decrease gas milage, or you can spend $20-30 at the parts store for a TCC solenoid. The TCC solenoid isn't hard to replace but its a PITA since you have to drop the tranny pan. That would be my guess anyway.

Thanks for the pics, BitchenRS. when I get the motor swapped, I'll hae a good refrence on how to slap it back together