My car has the tires on it now that I bought it with. I figure they will last me through winter, and this summer I will want to buy new tires. I think the ones on the car now are the second set, or maybe the 3rd set ever for it. I was the first person to even take the brake drums off the car - they still had the factory clips on the studs. Anyway, the tires are Kelly Charger SR's 245/50/16. I love the way they look. Also, they last forever. I have put like 7k miles on the car since buying it, and I spin the tires soooo much. Not to mention the occasional brake stand every few days. These tires are so hard, they havent even lost 2/32" on my tread depth guage. Maybe 1/32. The fronts are wearing faster than the rears because of alignment. So, I searched all over and cant find these tires anymore. Anyone know who sells them? And if they maybe come in raised white letter now?

http://www.kelly-springfield.com/kel...option=Formula

i found them on this site i dont know if they just show them or u can buy them. maybe try the store locator icon on the top of the page good luck.

According to that website they dont make the tire anymore. I guess I will have to settle for something a little newer.

Another thing I dont like is, it seems like all the nice white letter tires only come in 15" sizes.

This post is wrong on so many levels
I think you are the first person with a performance car that I've ever seen that wants a tire to be hard. If rubber is good then plastic oughta be better.

and white letter tires!!? That will go great with your acid washed jeans and Scorpions t shirt. The reason you cant find white letter tires in 16" sizes is because white letter tires went out style along with 15" wheels back in the 80s.

Sorry I just get worked up because its things like this that just reinforce the stereotypes surrounding thirdgens.

Please, get a car more appropriate to your tastes than that very clean low mile 5 speed formula. That thing should be tearing it up at the autocross and open track events. Not at the truck stop with white letter tires and a cb antenna.

I am actually prolly gonna get a CB radio in this summer. I dont see how that gives a bad stereotype though. And I like the scorpions but skid row is better.

If you want bad stereotypes here is a quick chop I did of some ideas my buddies had for my car. It came out so good that we are looking for an old LG4 bird to do this to for real.

Dammit, now I've got "winds of change" stuck in my head

Good to see you're keeping those stock Formy rims!

LMAO
I was also wondering why you'd want hard tires. Yea they're great for burnouts and skids, but would you really want hard tires on your daily driver?

Well the old kellys on there now are really hard, and I love them. They handle great, too. I can corner really fast without loosing traction, and when it does it always oversteers, never understeer or plow.

I love getting on the highway and pegging it on the ramp, and going completely sideways through the corner and onto the highway!

Hey!

Who says you are the authority on what is "cool" and what is not?

Shut down the flame thrower and go hang out with your tuner friends if that's what you want! Lowered cars with low profile tires actually look g&y to a lot of us around here. Nothing wrong with white letters...

Wait, are you confused with cars that are lowered for no reason? And tires of insufficient sidewall? That is extra goofy. Having a purpose for modifications is not.

You must be confused. I can't get too mad though because the ignorance of motorsport on TGO is staggering. You are driving around a car that had countless hours of R&D put into it's suspension so that you could put hockey puck tires on it and Gabriel shocks. Do you realize that those things kill handling? I don't think you would notice though because I'm going to safely assume you are what we call a "Non-driver"
Those things arent even good for drag racing. Why even bother driving a thirdgen? Save those parts for the trailer you live in.

Its sad because a low mile 5 speed Ws6 car is a hard thing to come by. Doing the things you guys like to do is akin to putting 26" wheels on there or dingle berries hanging from the ceiling. The only purpose is to look stupid. You look even dumber when you are getting smoked at an open track event, mountain road, or the dragstrip. Loud plastic tire howl and all. You reinforce the inbred trailer trash stereotype of thirdgeners in the process.

And for the record, my car does in the 1/8th mile what your car probably does in the quarter MPH wise.. take that back.. I'm probably doing 20 mph faster at least. Anyway have fun ruining that car. Wish it could have gone to capable hands.

Just noticed you thought your tires "handled great". If you think that the hockey puck tires on your car give you good handling... you have a lot to learn

It's too bad that such a nice car is wasted on such an effite snob...

Have fun on the autocross track... with the rest of the soccer players.

Take your superior knowledge and start your own web site with the rest of your tea party. We're here to enjoy our cars, not run each other down because we think our style is better than yours.

You ought to sell your Buick and buy a Corvette, the personality profile fits much better!!

Don't know why you are so angry about the white lettering on the sidewalls. I actually like it as well and I'm so far removed from "trailer trash" which you so seemingly would like to lump anyone with such preferences.

Seriously, like KrisW said, who do you think you are by slagging someone elses preferences? If they like it, they like it. Doesn't mean you have to like it, and obvously you don't. I have white lettering out on mine right now, with no plans to change until I upgrade rims and then there won't be enough room anyway if I wanted it or not.

As far as your other comments on tire composition I agree. But lets be realistic. Are we all drag racers here? I hardly think so. A good number of you are, but I think I good chunk are just 3rd gen enthusiasts that maybe WANT their car to look like it just came out from the 80's - where it originated....

I'm sorry but I think that full out attack on the Original Poster was highly uncalled for. And coming from someone that has been here since 1999 really makes me wonder :/

I eventually will have some stuff done to the car to make it handle better. I plan on upgrading all the bushings, shocks, brakes, springs ect. I also want to get a set of nice rims, like some 17" torqlites. But untill then, and untill I get a job again, I was just wondering about the simple question of if anyone had seen them carrying a certian tire, or any tire with a comparably hard rubber. I worked at a firestone tire shop, so I know that they dont have any tires there I would really want.

And as for the raised white lettering, that is a classic muscle car thing. Its like telling a guy with a 66 GTO that he shouldnt buy Redline tires because the new radials handle alot better.

Maybe you think I am some teenage red neck. Well i guess I am people tell me that all the time. But these cars have stereotypes for a reason - because they appeal to certain crowds. I bought this car for a reason - because I wanted a daily driver that I could have some fun in. I have loved the 3rd gens since middle school age. And I paid the $4500 price to get a lower milage rust free origional paint car. I think I paid too much, yes, but all the alternatives at the time were shitbox cars with built motors.

As for infering that I use sub-par parts to keep my car on the road, that is un-true. Maybe I cant afford the best aftermarket parts, but I do the best I can. When I go to autozone to get parts, I make sure they are quality parts before I pay. I am not going to put worse-than-facotry parts in my car unless I am really scraping for money. And then, when I get a job, I am going to really work on getting this thing nice with all the best stuff I can afford.

Oh and the car isnt low miles anymore, it is up to 54,000 this week. I just never update the sig.

who is this Pablo guy and where does he get off saying ANYTHING is out-dated or not cool.......who voted him some kind of expert on anything except maybe Buicks............has he ever been to a car show lately????? the whole idea is to persoalize ones own vehicle to how one sees fit, not to what some Buick owner THINKS is cool......... RWL forever !!!!!!!

OH BY THE WAY... it seems I saw some RWL BFG 16" tires online a year or so back, but didnt find any on a brief search the other day.....pondering on selling the IROC rims and getting some 15" maybe some Cragar S/S just so I can run RWLs........

As a current and former owner of many Buicks, that is why I was so peeved to begin with...

Well, lets see here. First off I have been around since before 1999. That is just when TGO under that name came to be. Before that it was The Third Gen Camaro and Firebird Webpage on the Missouri.edu server since iirc 1995. I have owned several thirdgens and can safely say that I am responsible for a lot of the themes, and mods that thirdgeners now take for granted (look at the tech section for my name)
That said, I think I am fairly well qualified to so say what is an effective mod or what is not an effective mod on a thirdgen F body. Being that TGO is a performance oriented website and that this is the suspension and chassis forum; I think it was fitting that I informed you that poor tire choices are contradictory to the design intent of the Thirdgen Fbody. You may think they look cool but it is common for people to assign a "cool" factor to parts because they think they are synonymous with performance.
In this case, I informed you that there are essentially no raised white letter tires in existence that are legitimate performance tires. Furthermore a tire for a 15 inch rim sacrifices a lot of cornering performance because the sidewalls have a harder time maintaining shape. Tire technology has left 15" RWL tires in the past where they belong.
As for my buick, soccer, and autox.... My car is a street/ drag car with purpose specific drag racing 15" wheels. They allow me to run tires that enhance the performance of my car in that environment. In this case going fast is looking good. No it does not corner and I have no allusions of its capability to do so. I do however know a thing or two about driving from karting and mountain run experience. Unfortunately I know that most people don't drive, they ride in their cars so I already know where most of you attacking me are coming from.
As far as soccer and Tea.. soccer is ok. I like cycling more. And Tea is excellent. So are apple pie, rifles, and the Marine Corps. Don't live stereotypes and open your mind. You might be surprised to find there is a whole world out there.

btw 54k high miles!?! Please sell me your old worn out car!!

I need it to replace my 170k buick that is putting down only around 650 hp on the original long block.

I understand what you are saying about performance. However, I never said I wanted to get 15" rims so that I can get RWL tires for better performance. I said I wanted hard tires, because they last. And I prefer RWL tires, and I was hoping someone would have pointed me to a set of nice white-letters for my current 16" ws6 rims. Preferably under $75 a tire.

I think unless I find a set of RWL or other classic looking tire that will fit my 16" rims, I am going to spend the kellys I have now, and save for some 17" rims this summer.

We werent mad about your performance perspective. We were mad about your jabs at my "inbred" heratige, and your offense to people who live in the trailer park. I live in my parents house still - but I imagine I will live in a trailer sometime in the near enough future. Probably after I move south to the warm weather. But it wont be because I want to be white trash, it will be because I would prefer a nice singlewide over a cheap apartment. And I am sure there are plenty of people that live in trailers by necesity or choice, and possibly a few people who are inbred (not by choice) and you probably offended them alot more than me.

Speaking as someone who has great respect for the Marines (I served with them first as a Seabee and then as a civilian) and who has had the pleasure of being shot at with them recently (05/06 Nangalum, Afghanistan) I do not appreciate their name sakes being thrown around to justify your open mindedness. If you are a Marine, then you get a pass.

I still think you ought to put your 600 hp Buick engine in a Corvette and drive around with your left pinky extended when others are about... The Corvette tends to suit the open minded at the cocktail parties...

Fast Buicks are for real folks.

I did 5 years in the Marine Corps there "shipmate" and currently work as a contractor for the Marine Corps. If by real folks you mean Real Ignorant Folks then I have to disagree. Like I said before, open your mind. I've been a drag racer for at least 10 years, die hard right winger, and still never shut off the thought and logic portion of my mind (I don't think you could be the last one legitimately without being a logical person). There is a lot the world has to offer and that extends to the realm of motorsports. I used to be probably like you till I started actually driving with folks at the track and learning that there can be more to life than just hitting the go pedal and holding on. Not that that isnt fun though. I enjoy that too obviously.

Pablo......what we have here is failure to communicate.....but as a member of former member of our armed services, you were defending our freedom of choice, to choose to drive/ride our cars or go all the way down to 13" wheels if one so chooses. In most minds it would look stupid and not serve any real purpose, but if that is what someone wants to do and is happy with it, so be it. Variety is the spice of life. But I for one, just think the white lettering just compliments a performance machine........

Yeah, what do you think looks better?

This:


or this:

^^I don't think it's fair to pick two pictures of ugly cars and tell someone to choose, how about we change the first one for this:





Edit: Wait, what the hell does this have to do with white walls looking like crap on a third-gen

The red one is period correct if you want to be a historian about it. Dont expect it to perform like anything we have today.

The first one looks like hell on those jc whitney chrome wheels. Look at any car built for competition and chrome is conspicuously absent. I never really liked those stingray vettes anyway. Even if the red one had a crapload of power it wouldn't go anywhere. Most of those things are brutally slow though. If that thing had even a mild sbc putting down 450 hp it would be useless because those tires would do nothing but spin. Forget about it cornering very well either.

The last one IMO is all show no go. The tires are improperly sized for those wheels. If it was even just for straight line they would never ever in a million years hook up even under any power. If you were cornering that car it would be really quick to snap around on you because the tire sidewall is stretched to the limit. There is no give to accommodate for road imperfections or provide a gradual loss of traction rather than just an all or nothing effect on traction. Thats the kind of tire combo you'd want for a drift car. Drift cars subsequently cannot run a road course very quickly compared to a properly set up car of the same type.

The first thing I look at when I race people is their tires. I know that on anything resembling normal street tires I will destroy them. Reason being is that even if they are making good power they would never hook up. On street tires I know that I would never hook up. So if you are making even equal power to me on street tires you are going to lose. More power than me? Just gonna send it up in smoke.

You can of course put any wheel and tire combination that you like on your car. Its your car... but please remember that there is a definite line drawn between appearance and performance. Anyone that knows anything of the latter will be able to tell the difference.

and to show you that I am not blindly against white letter tires here is a car that has them where appropriate and functional. Would I personally show the white letters? Not unless I was paid by the tire manufacturer for the advertising space or it was a rule for racing in the series


Note that those are actual racing tires without raised lettering. The lettering is merely stenciled on unless hoosier makes rwl racing tires that I have never seen before. (entirely possible)

You are commended, sir...

I'll tone down to the "agree to disagree," position.

I think we would all agree on that. He was asking what looked better between big and small rims and I think it looks good. The rear tires are way skinny and I don't know what's up with that. The car has about 1200 hp, so I have no clue why you wouldn't throw on the widest tires you can. IIRC it spun at 90, so as long as you don't race it from a 150 roll, I don't think it would fare too well.

looks like an 89 formula..... what year did they change the wing?
if you want tires cheap, I'll sell you my firestone SZ50's.
$100 for the pair. they have 6/32"s left.

Thanks for the offer blur, but my kellys have about 6/32 now. I dont really NEED tires yet. I was trying to investigate weather kelly still made these tires at all with the hard compound, and weather they could come in RWL. Appreciate the offer though.

Realistically I will probably end up getting Fuzion ZRi tires. They are awesome tires for the price. Just a little too new school for an 80's car I think, but for $80 a tire for 245's that look like 275's you cant beat them.

How does that work?

I'm running Kuhmo ECSTA's AST's 245/50HR16 and were about $60 a piece. I have about 3k on them and so far so good.

hey i have radial ta's on my camaro, with white letters out. my car is white though. guess what, i was born in the 90's bitch

Your iq is probably in the 90s too.

Sounds like a case of PMS...

The guy can do anything he wants with his car. Its his car, if you dont like it keep your dumb comments to yourself. This is an educational website and nothing you have said has been educational.

You tout your own horn and belittle those that are fellow enthusiasts. With a "friend" like him, who needs enemies?

To follow your own logic, why dont you turn in your GM car and buy a Ford? That way you will have a safe little mass produced car with absolutely no reservations about perpetuating any stereotypes.

So if you want white letters on the tires, buy them. Then post pictures on here because i really would like to see them.

By the way, check out ebay auction item# 150178534243, they are not SR but they are TR rated. If memory serves, the S rating is 112mph and the T rating is 118.
Item# 300187400675 as well.

You might want to check them out...

Slow go with what you like bro. Don't let goons like Pablo tell you whats cool and whats not cool. Id actually like to see what my RS looks like with white lettered tires

Well if you guys have 15" base model wheels, RWL tires are not hard to find. The BFG's have the white letters, and are pretty cheap too.

Lucid, thanks for the Ebay auctions. However, those are the newer versions of my tires. They also dont have RWL. They do look pretty cool though - I will keep them in mind. I really try not to use ebay tho.

The main reason I asked about the RWL tires is because I saw a car with the old kelly's like mine, except they had the RWL on them. They looked sick. I know this is possible because at firestone we had a few tires that you could get with or without the white stripe ect. And some we just mounted whitewall in.

pablo- how about no, i actually am a jr. in highschool with a 4.0 and a full scholarship to the AZ state college of my choice.
to the original poster, do what you wish , its your ride, make it what you want, others are just trying to help

ill post a photo of my RS camaro up and it has white lettering on my tires.
i didnt care about preformce wise of the tires. i just wanted to get the cheapest tires i could possibly find. so thats what i did
and there on 15inch rims.
i think they will still preformce pretty well in corners. not as well as a 17 inch wheel with softer rubber would. but it will get the job done tho. if its your daily driver car then why not. they will last alot longer then softer tires and probably cheaper to.. unless you want to make your car go fast and take corners at high speeds then i would get bigger rims and what not.

but with 15inch rims with white lettering. i love em even if i got tires that didnt have white lettering i would have painted them on there

Here is my RS camaro.
im giving it a paint job but it been real gross out to do any sanding.
anyways. theres the white letters tires on 15 inch rims. not the clearest photo. i also lowered the front of my car. i was going to do the back but i kinda like the way it sits now the t-tops were leaking so i coverd it up with garbage bags.

Makes me want to primer my car! No but seriously those wheels and tires look great.

And Pablo how is it possible for someone to leave their IQ in the 90's ?

if your going to be doing daily driving. i say get the hard tires.
if your gunna be doing wicked corners and whatnot. get performence tires.
thats the way i see it anyways. why spend extra money on performence tires when your not gunna be using them the way there ment to be used??
im sure you can get like no name type brand of tires for fairly cheap and i would guess they would be harder rubber since its cheaper. thats how i would think of it anyways.
it will still grip the road. drive threw the rain. some gravel sideroad or whatever. i dont want to get into to much detail so ill leave it at that.

Apparently reading comprehension isn't anyone's forte here.

Information can only convince those with the capacity to comprehend it.

Anyway, be safe kids.
----------
I can tell.

y dont y go on buick site and suck my ****

Your basically ragging on people and calling them simple minded because he wants tires that last a long time. He said the car is a DD. That doesnt mean he plans on blasting every turn at maximum G load or beating absolutely anyone he comes across with his amazing off the line traction, and im sure you dont drive your DD like that either. Leave it alone. And who cares about stereotypes? If your not one, get over it, and if you are, get over it too. Its his opinion.

Hold on , you've still got 6/32 of tread , your tires are practically new

Go to Pepboys and get the Futura GLS tires, they're the equivalent to a stiff white letter tire like yours.

pablo,

What the hell? It is funny to me that you (being born in 1946) would have anything to say about ones' modifications being out-of-date. It is very common for a vehicle being restored to be outfitted with period correct parts. I myself recently purchased 15" wheels for my 92 vert. that I am working on. In the morning, I plan or purchasing two front tires to match my rears. Yes, they are Raised White Letter tires. Why, because they would be period correct. Funny thing is, I grew up in a period when these cars where being built. The hot thing at the time was Raised White Letter Tires. As a result, rebuilding this vehicle makes me feel young again. It Takes me to that time. If I wanted to be cool, I guess I would be keeping with today's popular fads by working with a Honda or Acura. Hey, if you are the owner of a Buick and not a 3rd Gen, why am I wasting my time with you and why the hell are you in here?

This is not a knock on guys being born post World War. I just think that someone of your age would understand and not crap on everyone's modifications and fads since you have been through so many of them.

Sumitomo makes a Z rated 245/50/16 for about $65.

Man just get whatever tires you want you are the one saving,choosing,and paying for them it's your money.Alot of us get on here to get help or help out others, but a few think that they are better than every one else, seems to me that the real thing is they got problems with PMS.

some people are close mined and try to put there view on you but when has it been cool to be just like everyone else.