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Ok.....I know that this has been covered many times, but it always end the same way...."Use a BFH.".....Not exactly overly helpful.
I'm ready to do it, but I'm really not seeing how a simple BFH is gonna help me, despite what I've been told.
My goal is to fit 315s.
I currently have 17" x 9" ROH Snypers, 5" bs/0 offset. To fir 315s, I need a 10"-12" wheel. Goal was 11" then. I was going to add 2" & end up with 6" bs.
I mounted up a tireless wheel & after a bit of SFH (my bigest H is just a SFH ), I had this....
It looks like I'm still 1/2" short of room & that would be with the wheel physically TOUCHING the car. Not even any clearance. No way a simple BFH is gonna move the metal 1/2" in!
Am I measuring wrong? Am I misinterpreting what I'm seeing?
I finally have the $ I need, go to check it all out & now.........HELP!
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is the axle at ride height or is it hanging in the pic?
people usually have the bump stop area sitting inside the wheel, and say "oh, it fits great!" but let the axle drop and it hangs up on the bumpstop, like it would in your pic
You need to cut the bumpstop area off. There are 2 main layers of sheet metal there, you need to remove the outed layer, then box it back in so that its flat instead of sticking out into the wheel.
the BFH or SFM is more for the front of the wheel well.
The light streak is the e-brake shield reflecting the flash of the camera......Only 1.5" from the rim edge to the e-brake cable.....2" widening would me the wheel 1/2" into it!
is the axle at ride height or is it hanging in the pic?
people usually have the bump stop area sitting inside the wheel, and say "oh, it fits great!" but let the axle drop and it hangs up on the bumpstop, like it would in your pic
You need to cut the bumpstop area off. There are 2 main layers of sheet metal there, you need to remove the outed layer, then box it back in so that its flat instead of sticking out into the wheel.
the BFH or SFM is more for the front of the wheel well.
Your figuring the 315 to be 12.5" in width right?
The axle is at ride height. Jackstand under the axle.
I pretty much figured on the bumpstop needed to be cut anyways, but I haven't gotten to that part yet, and already having fitment problems!
I'm trying to move/clear than inner stiffening "ridge".
My Panhard is not the problem....My bumpstop is not the problem...My INNER FENDERWHEEL is.
Please......Lets address one problem at a time, before we worry about the others.......Wheel fitment.
That end of the cable won't simply move, that close to the caliper. It is STIFF metal sheathing and just barely out of the caliper, before it starts turning.
That end of the cable won't simply move, that close to the caliper. It is STIFF metal sheathing and just barely out of the caliper, before it starts turning.
sorry for the confusion, the panhard comment was just a side note, like "you think you have problems?, look what i had to deal with!"
as for the cable, i forgot the old factory ones are quite stiff.
I have have the 4th gen cables for my ls1 style rear brakes, while they are pretty stiff too, i was able to flex it enough to clear the wheel, i dont have the original cables to compare with.
Aside from that, the cable should be able to move enough to clear the wheel, i wouldn't worry too much about the cable at this time.
OK.....I *THINK* I have 1/8" clearance now. Not that I'll settle for just 1/8" (I want 1/4"), but at least it is some progress! The bright streak is the metal e-brake cable & camera flash off it.
Maybe MORE hammering to the ridge will give me to room I want. All I have to work with is a roofing hammer...... Or a deadblow rubber mallet.
I do have a 700R4, & have NO plans to go T56, so do I NEED a e-brake? Not really. So no BIG loss if I disconnect it & lose it. Not sure if they even check it at inspection time. I'll look into that.
Now......If I put in a 4th gen rear axle, all my problems would be solved, but new "problems" would arise. My tires sit in about 1/2" right now, which means they'd be about 1" OUT, past the fender.
I do have a 700R4, & have NO plans to go T56, so do I NEED a e-brake? Not really. So no BIG loss if I disconnect it & lose it. Not sure if they even check it at inspection time. I'll look into that.
I moved the jackstand from the axle to the body & let the axle drop.
Yep.....EXACTLY 1", rim edge to the bumpstop and the wheel drooped below the bumpstop, so it'll interfere & will need cutting off.
I beat in the upper wheel well some, but can only guess at how much I'll need for the tire sidewall bulge, until I actually have a tire mounted on the wheel to see it.
From the rim edge to the stock LCA is EXACTLY 2" (which is what I'm gettung them widened by), so that is an issue, right? NOPE!
Cut out and box the bump stop area, that alone will get you 3/4" at least. I am running a 13.1" section width tire with a 15x10 on 6.5bs rim. It all fits fine, I posted a thread with pics a long time ago, feel free to search for it. I think it was 15x10 with 6.5bs in the title.
__________________ my car thats never done
"I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"
First Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '05, Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '06, Best Modified Camaro Thirdgenfest '07 , Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '08
MFBA March 2008 Featured Calendar Vehicle
The rear of the car will still move a little side to side, but i think my rubbing is happening when the suspension is loaded in a turn, the body rolls a little and causes a rub.
No "easy" fit exists, if you wanna keep the tires under the fenders. Otherwise, I'd just get some spacers & stick them out. As it is, I'm gonna use my brand-new, used, OEM aluminum factory aluminum drum spacers. Which are just under 1/4", IIRC..
Well, I did discover that the e-brake cable ran through that flimsy "bracket" on top of the axle tube & was actually being held "out" & it could possibly move in more. After releasing it from the bracket, it swung inwards a little more, and that gave me the room for the wheel to clear the cable. I'll make a new bracket to hold it in farther.
After recalculating, I was gonna end up with 7"bs........A 17" x 11" & 7" bs, with ONLY some BFH work......NOT POSSIBLE! (Some CLAIM 6.5" bs to have done just a BFH, yet no pics from them......not surprised at pics showing off their lies)
I challenge those who say it is possible & have done it (6.5"bs), to pop a wheel off their car, take a pic, show the wheel bs & PROVE IT! I've been researching this for over 6 months now, & of those who "claimed" to have done it? They are obviously full of it & leaving something out, that they don't want to admit to.
It is obviously going to require some cutting & re-welding, to even fit 6.5" (much less 7")bs.
5"bs? Yes, direct fit.....
5.5"bs + BFH?.....Yes, but not just simple MINOR BFH work
6" bs + BFH only? (like some claim to have done).....NOT IN YOUR DREAMS! (much less the 7"BS I was going to end up with)
I can get 2" of clearance (9" wide/5"bs wheel), wheel edge to body metal, but NO MORE, with only BFH work. Meaning the (widened) rim would be TOUCHING the body metal. Then there would be the tire bulge on top of that! And that doesn't even take the bumpstop section into account that sticks out even further.....
It looks like I'm going to end up with a 1.5" widened, 10.5" (10"-12" is the recommended size)/6.5" bs wheel, if not just a 1" widened 10"/6" bs wheel.
(Some CLAIM 6.5" bs to have done just a BFH, yet no pics from them......not surprised at pics showing off their lies)
I challenge those who say it is possible & have done it (6.5"bs), to pop a wheel off their car, take a pic, show the wheel bs & PROVE IT! I've been researching this for over 6 months now, & of those who "claimed" to have done it? They are obviously full of it & leaving something out, that they don't want to admit to.
It is obviously going to require some cutting & re-welding, to even fit 6.5" (much less 7")bs.
i made a huge thread on the drag board or fabrication board about MY 6.5" backspacing....sorry you can't believe me. 28x12.50 slick with 13.1" section width, cut out the bumpstop run offset LCAs and it's not too difficult to fit.
i made a huge thread on the drag board or fabrication board about MY 6.5" backspacing....sorry you can't believe me. 28x12.50 slick with 13.1" section width, cut out the bumpstop run offset LCAs and it's not too difficult to fit.
just in case u need to see the pics at the bottom of the thread
screw it....here u go
#1...I have 5" with NO mods & room to spare. Sounds like you did a lot more than BFH work to get 6.5". Where are the pics of it?
#2....NO inner fender pics. So we can't tell from the outside if it just messed with or back-halfed & tubbed.
#3...Only 15" wheels. I have 17" & the problem the wheel to metal problem.
Not surprised that, as usual, no wheels off pics of the inner sheet metal.
Last edited by Stephen; 04-28-2009 at 12:30 AM.
Reason: Misread & responded to the misreading
obviously the pics are with a 295 street tire but it's all the same. Your rim is no where near as large as my 28" tires, so that 15" vs 17" argument is pointless. My slicks are wider than your rim would be up there.
__________________ my car thats never done
"I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"
First Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '05, Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '06, Best Modified Camaro Thirdgenfest '07 , Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '08
MFBA March 2008 Featured Calendar Vehicle
you sure are sounding crabby
obviously the pics are with a 295 street tire but it's all the same. Your rim is no where near as large as my 28" tires, so that 15" vs 17" argument is pointless. My slicks are wider than your rim would be up there.
Crabby? Maybe. I get tired of the "just a BFH" claims I kept reading, yet nobody can back it up any. I might as well say I have 33" wide Pro Streeters..."Take my word for it.....I cut nothing to get them to tuck."
Your pics only reinforce my point.....
You cut & welded exactly what I expected to see. Not "just BFH" like some claim.
Tire sidewalls end up in a totally different area than rims do, so the argument of rim vs tire width is pointless.
The area tires would rub, is way thinner, easier to move and wider to begin with, than where a rim "intrudes" upon. Yes, the sidewall & bumpstop area still might present an obstruction, but that is another issue to be dealt with later & easily addressed with limiting straps, if nothing else.
17x11, 4th gen rear, 8" bs, 315/35/17:
rolled the fender lip, trimmed the corners of the bump stop/mounts, and tapped the spring hump slightly with a BFH.
There is a drivers' side straight-on rear shot of it that has been posted up on here for a few years now. You should be able to find it in one of the wheels threads by searching my name and the word pics.
__________________ Jp Shawgo
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 lead sled still awating its transformation
- If you can't afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to do it again?
17x11, 4th gen rear, 8" bs, 315/35/17
rolled the fender lip, trimmed the corners of the bump stop/mounts, and tapped the spring hump slightly with a BFH.
There is a drivers' side straight-on rear shot of it that has been posted up on here for a few years now. You should be able to find it in one of the wheels threads by searching my name and the word pics.
What sized adapters did you use? 8"bs on a direct fit wheel, without serious cutting & welding, is not even remotely possible.
I have 5" bs right now...There is physically 2.125" from the rim edge to the body metal & that doesn't even include the bumpstop sticking out.
You'd have had to cut a full 2" out, or have the rims sticking out. Pics like that show nothing. Lets see it without the wheel in place.
What sized adapters did you use? 8"bs on a direct fit wheel, without serious cutting & welding, is not even remotely possible.
I have 5" bs right now...There is physically 2.125" from the rim edge to the body metal & that doesn't even include the bumpstop sticking out.
You'd have had to cut a full 2" out, or have the rims sticking out. Pics like that show nothing. Lets see it without the wheel in place.
he did say he is using a 4th gen rear, so its what, 1.75 wider on each side? so the 8" of BS that the wheels have would be more like 6.25 on a 3rd gen offset.
he did say he is using a 4th gen rear, so its what, 1.75 wider on each side? so the 8" of BS that the wheels have would be more like 6.25 on a 3rd gen offset.
OK.....I missed the 4th gen part, but even so......That doesn't help my fit in any way.
If I had a 4th gen rear end, I'd have minimal inner clearance problems, but then my tires would stick out about 1.5"!
As 86TA noted, I run an 8" bs due to the 4th gen rear that is currently under it.
For note, the only reason I trimed the corners off the bump stops and thier mounts was for clearance when the suspension is fully extended.
If you add 2" to a 4.5" backspaced wheel, then you will have a 6.5" backspace, thus making the roughly 1/2" difference we have in fitment. - Basically, my wheels stick out approximately 1/2" more than your's currently do. I don't have any pics with the wheels off, however there are some rear shots on this board that show where mine sit in relation to the fender lip, which would probably verify this. - I would re-post them, but I don't have those shots on my photobucket account and I don't often get on-line from home.
__________________ Jp Shawgo
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 lead sled still awating its transformation
- If you can't afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to do it again?
The problem originates from your insistence that your backspacing is 4.5" and that the number is going to be the same on every other wheel out there. I was going to reply last week, but things came up and I had to leave so all the bookmarks I looked up are not here. In any case, feel free to look up any of the following manufacturers and how THEY measure backspace:
American Racing
Bonspeed
Boyd
Budnik
Centerline
Cragar
Weld
Wheel Vintiques
US Wheel
I may have forgotten some and some dont say, not to mention I did not look up everyone, but I'm sure a phone call would resolve the question. So what you're doing is wrong, telling people that have already done this that what they did is not possible, and calling them out and whatnot. Stop.
You are not using a backspace dimension that is equivalent to what everyone else uses. Its about a 1/2" different, because everyone else measures from the mounting flange to the back of the rim, not to the bead like you insist. So forgetting what you say yours are, start with EQUIVALENT measurements. If you consider that measuring your rims backspace the way that any of the above do, and what those vehicle owners are telling you they are running on their cars, it might make some more sense. You're talking about adding 2" to a wheel that is not 4.5" backspace but 5" backspace measured in the manner everyone else on this board was told to measure and how the manufacturers they got their wheels from measured it, putting you at 7" backspace the way everyone else measures theirs. Now maybe it will make sense to you how a bunch of people are running 6 to 6.5" with a BFH and you cant, its because you are trying to run 7".
i made a huge thread on the drag board or fabrication board about MY 6.5" backspacing....sorry you can't believe me. 28x12.50 slick with 13.1" section width, cut out the bumpstop run offset LCAs and it's not too difficult to fit.
just in case u need to see the pics at the bottom of the thread
screw it....here u go
i have seen your camaro pics before and that is what a camaro should look like. no empty wheel wells - everything full of rubber - big fag buldging American Muscle rubber to let people know you need it or you sit in one place and just spin those tires. and none of that chrome wagon wheel stuff for rims.
i love your car. when mine grows up i want it to be like that.
I don't seem to have any shot with of the wheel wells with the tire's off. Like I said though, less BFH work than you, but approximately 1/2" less backspace.
Here's a rear shot of the car, should help to show fitment vs the lip:
__________________ Jp Shawgo
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 lead sled still awating its transformation
- If you can't afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to do it again?
I don't seem to have any shot with of the wheel wells with the tire's off. Like I said though, less BFH work than you, but approximately 1/2" less backspace.
But you have a 4th gen rear, so your fit is pointless to me, since I'm still using the 9-bolt, since it is stronger than the 10-bolt rears.
Yeah...we could play with the #s all day long, but no one can ever make up their minds if a 4th gen rear is 2", 1.75", or 1.5" wider per side, so we can't trust their judgment in what they say about cutting/hammering etc.
I gave up & just cut mine out yesterday, so it doesn't matter anymore. My bumpstops & the vertical bump are GONE now.
But you have a 4th gen rear, so your fit is pointless to me, since I'm still using the 9-bolt, since it is stronger than the 10-bolt rears.
Yeah...we could play with the #s all day long, but no one can ever make up their minds if a 4th gen rear is 2", 1.75", or 1.5" wider per side, so we can't trust their judgment in what they say about cutting/hammering etc.
I gave up & just cut mine out yesterday, so it doesn't matter anymore. My bumpstops & the vertical bump are GONE now.
The 9-bolt is marginally stronger than a stock 10-bolt, it is no stronger than my 10-bolt. I have broken both to know.
I do understand what you are saying, just noting that since the 4th gen rear is almost 2" per side wider, I am running 2" more bs than what you would need. That said, the difference in fitment was due to how you were measuring it; thus the 1/2"difference in clearance.
Sorry to have tried to help. I'll leave you to your own choices.
I don't seem to have any shot with of the wheel wells with the tire's off. Like I said though, less BFH work than you, but approximately 1/2" less backspace.
Here's a rear shot of the car, should help to show fitment vs the lip:
love the wood behind the wheel... 1in wood block vs. 3000lbs car lol this transam vert also has camaro vert side spoilers.. nice car tho sorry its off topic
obviously the pics are with a 295 street tire but it's all the same. Your rim is no where near as large as my 28" tires, so that 15" vs 17" argument is pointless. My slicks are wider than your rim would be up there.
Man need I help with getting wider tires under my 82 camaro.. man can you email me specs pics rim size back pacing and tires size... if you can... man the car spins all most, all the way down the strack the way it is now...
), I had this....
Or a deadblow rubber mallet.
