GEO Metro Mauler

I keep on hearing about the SLP headers that you have to dent the pipe to make it fit, raise the motor & hope it still fits, I'm not into a pry bar against my streering to get a header to sit,....but, the clearence on a '91 Formula,...I don't see a fit anywhere.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, the MAJOR ques on headers, (& not the "shorties" crap), here is;
Which is the easiest to install?
The longer the pipes to the collector, the lower the rpm's which they make a differance ie;
longer the pipes, more torque @ lower rpm's.

The geomatry & physic's, (I know,... spell check is off), of proper header prefomance is beyond the scope of us,....so, how does one make a informative choise on headers, besides,.."which is the easiest to install",.....

Without any "real" info, (pressure ratio of ex-valve to ex-pipe, etc), this is just a, "Holley, Carter, Q-Jet" debate.
The 4 tubes to the collector,..same lenth, (basic),...who takes a tape measure to a set of headers?
How can you measure them on the web?

My intake, cam, heads, etc, dictates that my exhaust profile should be; "x" degree of bend,... @ "y" lenth= ???????,.....
I see no profiles or specs besides;
"the longer the tubes, the lower the rpm range of max torque"

So,...unless we computer design our
own headers to our "specfic" mods, (correct me if I'm wrong), we should be buying headers based on the, "money-to-time", (to get 'em in), ratio.

(BTY,... the sig was just a joke I had to get out of my once druckin' system), but,...the more I started to think about this,.....just had to ask some questions,......(& have some fun along the way)

MadBrewer




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'91 Formula, (one of 72,000 made)!

KILLS;
78 Corolla, Datsun B210,
Ford Fistiva, VW Beetles,
that Pinto, (finally),

305 7cyl, TPI,
WS6 one tire posi,
rusted cat-back exhaust,
Dryer duct blower,
sub-frame connectors by Coat Hanger,
Pep-boys gas cap, (locking),
custom windshield eching

TRAXION

You are making this too complex. The subject will never be that complex because no company will custom make a header that is perfect for your combo while still charging a good price. So, that is a totally moot point. So, what we are left with are the headers that are available on the market and the differences between them. The main differences are primary pipe size, collector size, primary pipe length, price, and ease of installation. Ease of installation means absolutely NOTHING if you are trying to install Edelbrock headers on a healthy 350. 1-1/2" primaries are junk for a healthy 350 and you will be losing some serious power. Its that simple. Pick a primary size that reflects how much power your car makes. If your car makes a ****load of power then the only logical choice will be the Hooker long tube headers.

Tim

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TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

Sena'sIROC

Traxion(Tim) is right here man. Ease of installation is a frickin' moot point. But I have found the answer to the SLP 1 3/4" header to steering shaft clearance. Simply get a 89-92 Chevy truck that was equipped with either the 305 or 350, grab the motor mount shell and install it on the driver's side motor mount and bada-bing it fits like magic. No bending or denting of the header primary tubes....the damn if I'll do that to Stainless steel anyhow.

But like Tim said, if you are making some god-awful power a.k.a prolly not street-driven, the only choice would be Hooker Long Tubes....

Brian P
89 IROC-Z 355(soon to be minirammed and cammed with a bigger shaft, puny 214/220 just ain't cutting it)
Turbo 700(TC Clutchless wonder, god this tranny is impressive)

GEO Metro Mauler

So if 90% of us only need 1 3/4" primaries, a collector size to fit whatever exhaust we have, 2 1/2, 3", (long tubes are a no-brainer),...
& the fact that 15+ companies makes these "exact" generic spec's,...
seems to me that installation is a MAJOR factor here.

If 15+ companies makes headers in the same generic primary/collector dimentions & lenths,
why are Hooker's the only "logical" choice?,...(if you've found how to get SLP's to fit)?????
TES sucks, they're great
SLP's are the best, ('cause)?
Hooker's, not Hooker's, etc.

I don't think that I'm making this too complex.
I'm not looking for a custom design set, just wondering why people choose what they get based on,.....




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'91 Formula, (one of 72,000 made)!

KILLS;
78 Corolla, Datsun B210,
Ford Fistiva, VW Beetles,
that Pinto, (finally),

305 7cyl, TPI,
WS6 one tire posi,
rusted cat-back exhaust,
Dryer duct blower,
sub-frame connectors by Coat Hanger,
Pep-boys gas cap, (locking),
custom windshield eching

Sena'sIROC

Alright, kinda going back to the question you have. Most companies that are offering headers for our -specific- applications are going to be the 4-into-1 design, however SLP did make a Tri-Y header awhile ago for our cars. Generic as it may seem, it's the way they are made a.k.a quality.

I have found the most logical solution and I'd say the best one I've heard yet, everyone else just dents them.

Hooker Long Tubes are IIRC a non-emissions variety header, a.k.a they aren't for use with catalytic converters. I could be wrong but my friend has the Hooker long tubes on his 95 Z and he can't use his catalytic converter.

HTH,
Brian P
89 IROC-Z 355

Synergy

He cant use his cat converter because he's stupid not because the headers won't let him. LOL You can weld a cat converter in an exhaust system no matter WHAT kind of headers you have.

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92 Z28 5.7
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Trick Flow 23° heads, Comp Cams XR270HR-10 cam, Accel intake base + ported TPI,
TES headers, Flowmaster catback, MSD ignition, #24 SVO injectors, 1LE aluminum driveshaft.

Click here to see pics of my car !

TRAXION

Name those 15+ companies that make 1-3/4" headers and then reask your question. You are dreaming if you think that many companies make 1-3/4" headers for our cars.

Tim

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TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

GEO Metro Mauler

Ok,...I played with "15" a bit but, TES, SLP, Hooker, Headman, Summit, JES, etc,... (1 3/4 prime's
are a "generic" size),....
This is not my point.
I'd say 90% of us drive our cars as our primary ride; ie= "no car, no work,",...I have no time nor money spend on testing 3+ headers because some brother-son-wife-sister's-dog that runs 9's
say, "they suck,...they're great,...

Correct me if I'm wrong but, why we're here is to get "real" info,
best-bang-for-the-buck, least-amout-of-hassle advise, tips, etc; not a "brand name" debate.

Once you chip/scrape paint off a $300 part, 2-1 you're not getting money back, (minus the HOURS you've spent trying to get it to "almost" fit), wrenching should be "fun/work" thng not, "that mother-f**ken",.....
is this "ALL" it dose???,...but "he said",.......

I guess I just want to know "WHY" to buy "XXX" parts based on,.....(I get no answer here),....

One should look foward to jacking up the ride not, "boarding up the windshield 'cause I know this wrench is going",....

I'd rather do a 8 hour motor exchange then a, "it's only a damn",.......

When my $500 part comes in the mail,
I should be drollin' on wrenchin', not dreadin',...not hopin',...but, doing.

Slam me if I'm wrong but, if 4 people get ie=TES,...2 say suck, 2 say great,....with no other info then "suck, great",....why are we even here?




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'69 Gibson SG,
LM6100 30th Anniversary Marshall 100w Head,
1959 4x12 full stack,
Digitech Legend2 guitar process, (oops,...wrong sig),....

'91 Formula, (one of 72,000 made)!

KILLS;
78 Corolla, Datsun B210,
Ford Fistiva, VW Beetles,
that Pinto, "(finally)",

305 7cyl, TPI,
WS6 one tire posi,
rusted cat-back exhaust,
Dryer duct blower,
sub-frame connectors by Coat Hanger,
Pep-boys gas cap, (locking),
custom windshield eching

Sena'sIROC

Okay man, I see what you're getting at.
Well, now that we've effectively wasted enough board space and still have yet to stick to the subject at hand,
the only logical solution this thread is to address your combinations.

I see by your sig that you have a sense of humor but you might want to be a little more honest and give people good information when asking such questions, i.e true car info =)

This is a 305 TPI car in said question, yea??
With that in mind I would definitely say that you would benefit from 1 5/8" headers regardless of ease of installation, Brand, etc. depending on if you have stock heads or aftermarket would be another factor. If you were to say have a good high-flowing head like AFR's, or ported TFS 23^ heads then one might be so inclined to think about 1 3/4". Why you ask? Well the whole of idea of headers is to scavenge out the exhaust gases comparably as equal to the rate of 02 intake the way I see it.

A 1 5/8" header compared to a 1 3/4" will make more power at the low-end, and with a 305 car one might not be inclined to make such a sacrifice.

I bought the SLP's namely because I liked the idea of Stainless steel, the ease of installation was not a big pain, until I got to the driver's side and I took 2 hours away from it, got creative and I think it's the best thing I could've done for my ride. You might find results better with other headers, I do not endorse any brand...

HTH,
Brian P
89 IROC-Z 355

RCR

I have the Edelbrock TES's on my 350. Right now they're probably hurting me performance wise, but on a 305, it shouldn't be bad. (TES has 1 5/8" rimaries..advertised).
Now for the rating: These are the only ones I've seen for our cars, so I might be biased. The quality and workmanship blow. The welding is aweful. After looking at them closely, I'm suprised they fit. I've got about two hours of grinding on them to get the primary port sizes to be at least the size of my TFS heads. The junction between the primaries and the secondary pipe isn't any better. The tubes are just mashed together and welded, with no concern to flow. Are there others out there with better craftsmanship, probably. Are they as cheap as these, probably not. You make the call.

Maybe this winter I'll get some SLP's

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Bob '89 Ram Air Formula 350
And until that time when death won't wait, let each man rage against his fate. (O'neill)
My car's homepage
Rider's Ride

MadBrewer

Sena, RCR;
Right on, thanks for the info.
My low-end torque is bad enough as it is, hate to make it even worse.


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