'87IROCZOWNER69

iTrader: (1)

So what is the best air filter out there? I have been told K&N is great by alot of people because of hp gains. But I have also been told that it lets in alot of dirt and can virtually end up destroying your engine. People have used the motto "they last a million miles because you remove them after driving for a few weeks because you need to rebuild your engine". So are there any other air filters that offer performance without grenading the engine?

8t2 z-chev

I have had K&Ns on my car since '94-never any problem
with dust getting past the filters and i watch this close.
Also,at least in my case,a C/F,the filters fit well and seal
to the housing perfect.
I recon they flow well,fit well,and filter well

DJP87Z28

Bought my K&N filters about 15 yrs ago and still using them (regular maintence & reoil). Same filters used on my 305 and now 350 TPI.

MC305SS

Good ole paper filter.
The rest are gimmicks to separate you from your money.
Bob the oil guy did many a test on filters and found gimmick ones allow alot of dirt particles though. What do those particles do? Know one has really answered that question realistically, but makers like K&N also sell wraps for high dust conditions which tells me it can do harm.
The ony H.P. gains to be had is if your current filters area is to small for your air draw now needed due to mods or it was dirty in the first place needing a new one.

Does anyone remember Stacy Keech doing a dyno test of a K&N setup on a truck?
Well there were no gains to be had until he opened the good and allowed cooler air to enter which he them ducted that system through the fender well and then lost his job because the sponsor got pissed. Thats why he has a new show!!!!

eseibel67

Do not use an oil bath filter. They have NO performance advantage over paper, they let grit into the engine, the oil mist will damage your MAF, and the are messy to clean and re-oil.

Buy a paper one for $8 and spend the difference on a bottle of Johnnie Walker Black. This way both you and your car will be happy.

86 Money Pit

I have to respectfully disagree; I have used K&N on every vehicle I have owned for over 25 years and have never seen any evidence of dirt entering the engine through the air filter. In my younger (and stupider) days I used to ride and race dirt bikes, off-road bikers swear by K&N filters which is an environment significantly worse than you will ever encounter in a street driven car, once again; no failures related to dirt entering the engine.
Admittedly the “seat of the pants” dyno can’t discern a big increase in horsepower but, I think anyone thinking they are going to see “big” horsepower gains just by changing the air cleaner is a little naive. In my opinion the money I have saved over the years, as well as the peace of mind of having a quality product protecting my investment; was worth every penny in my mind.

eseibel67

It's not like there's going to be sand on the dipstick if you use a K&N filter. Just because you cannot see the grit doesn't mean it's not there. And going a few years without an engine rebuild is hardly conclusive evidence that everything is o.k.

This is your engine, you can do whatever you want to it. Personally, I do whatever I can to keep the dirt on the outside.

You can try to talk the OP into using an oil bath filter. But this topic isn't worth debating - use a paper air filter.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

They actually say that the k&n filters do not filter as well until they are dirtier. That's why they dont recoment serviciing them to like 50k miles. Ive been using one on my car for 5 years now with no problems. nearly 60k miles.

Krik

iTrader: (4)

I good-high quality paper filter changed (or at least checked) at regular intervals. Don't waste your money, or neglect your car.

Camaro305SB

It doesn't matter which air filter you use. Period.

MC305SS

Link to flow data
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...d=61&Itemid=70

Link to filtration

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...d=66&Itemid=76

cuisinartvette

Used K and N for 15 yrs using paper now. NO sotp advantage I mean how many motors need to flow 2000 cfm?

550chp cant tell the difference between paper filter or no filter at all that should tell you something.

'87IROCZOWNER69

iTrader: (1)

What is the OEM air filter for the Camaro? Anyone have a webpage for it?

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

did you read the article bob is the oil guy did? Thier is not that much of a difference in filtration. Just use the biggest filter you can fit and be done with it.

'87IROCZOWNER69

iTrader: (1)

I read the article but I still want to know what the OEM filter was because if the Norwood Ohio plant thought it was a good enough filter to put in a muscle car then it is good enough for me.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

Go to GM and buy a filter? AC DELCO as far as I know

MC305SS

Most autoparts store will also carry a AC Delco replacement

J91

Been following this thread??? WTF either spend the $ on a performance filter (K&N) or just go buy a normal airfilter...

Krik

iTrader: (4)

Yes, those are your 2 options. You aren't going to get both camps to come to an agreement....not ever. Do your own research, and do what you feel is right. As for my opinion, i already stated it earlier in the thread.

'87IROCZOWNER69

iTrader: (1)

Alright but what places can I get the AC Delco filter? I already checked Autozone and they dont carry it and O'reilly's you need to call to see if they can get it or not. Would NAPA carry it? I know they carry alot of stock parts but not sure about the air filter.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

If you're going paper, you might consider WIX as well--should be available at most auto parts stores (I purchased my last one at O'Reilly's).

JamesC

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

So lets do some math. A kn filter for a 305 tbi, say 40 bucks. Recharge kit. 15.00. 55 dollars. You can get 4 services out of the kit. So that'd be equivalent to 5 filters.

A stock replacement filter, say from wix. About 10 dollars. 5 filters is about 50 dollars.

5 filters later, your at 100.

5 filters later for a kn your at 1 and a fifth recharge kits. so basicall two recharge kits. 30.00....total of 85. With 4 air filter services to go.

This is assuming that a stock filter for a 305 tbi is around 10. If its less then the math is a little different.

you can always factor in time to clean into your equation then also. If that's the case then the difference in money isnt worth the difference in time. So the paper is a better option.

I made cases for both. Hopefully it wasnt too confusing. Haha. Good luck with your decision.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

For me personally (and I know others will feel differently), cost isn't a consideration.

JamesC

DJP87Z28

Undercovver estimates are little misleading on the (4) services per recharge kit. By that statement you are incorrect (unless you live in a dustbowl). If you clean the
filterss once a year or per K&N's instuctions that recharge kit will last longer then your car.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

Then its cheaper than I thought! Good! I am pro-K&N! sweet. When I service my flow thru lid and filter following instuctions I get about 4 services out of it.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

I know. So therefore by those tests. the k&n flows a little better. But filters a little bit less efficienctly. So I guess it depends on what you really want! Back to the main point of the thread. Just put what you want!

Krik

iTrader: (4)

If money is no concern, buy the K&N filter and throw it away every 6 months and buy a new one.
HA!

I should have went to bed a long time ago lol. G'Night all

thomas1976

It would be interesting to use a K&N air filter until its dirty anough like K&N recommends, until its filtering capacety matches a OEM paper filter.

And then perform a flow test and a 1/4 mile test.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Meaning that I've run K & N in the past, but I choose to use paper currently, and my choice has nothing to do with cost. At any rate, the debate isn't likely to change anyone's mind. Good luck to all.

JamesC

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

If I remember correctly, didn't most car makers used to use a oil bath type air filter?
I think they probly switched because of cost and ? i'm not to sure i wasn't around then.

Krik

iTrader: (4)

You are correct. I was poking fun at the absurdity of the thread. Its the same with oil, no one will ever change thier mind. No reason to have these threads anyway.

danziger

I personally saw no HP gain on dyno (of a stockish 2000 Z28) from Fram paper, to K&N to no filter at all. All dynos were within 1-2HP across the entire range.

Having said that, I use a K&N conical on both my L98 Formula and C5Z06.

You can't lose with either set-up as long as you keep them clean.

Krik

iTrader: (4)

Exactly!

P.S. Wait, you saw no HP gain with no filter at all? That kind of surprises me.

88TransAmGuy

iTrader: (3)

I have to agree i Love K&N. I personally do not have one on my car, but a friend of mine does on his 86 iroc and i love it! Im purchasing a system from K&N after the holidays

dannyboyemt

The truth on K&N filters by David (The Wizard) Vizard. If you have read his books you would know this guy knows what hes talking about. Skip to time mark 5.00min. This guy writes all those books on how to make HP with SBC's. The explanation last 5 minutes or so. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1BZg6aCGd8


If you read his books he also goes on to mention how they smooth out incoming turbulent air and how that can affects atomization of the fuel/air ratio and HP gains from it. Just some food for thought. Also in one of his books he includes pics of his third-gen Z.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

that's a pretty good video. Again I am on the kn bandwagon. The other tests showed negligible differences in filtering capabilities and flow. In the long run it is cheaper to run kn.

onthedownlow

iTrader: (4)

I just got a new 4 inch K&N element and breather for xmas and I couldn't be happier. What a beautiful assembly this is, and it will work terrific too I am sure.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Ill jump in only because I use a filter that I didnt see listed up above in my scanning of the thread.

I ran a K&N for a while on my LS1 swap. It was a 4" cone filter. I had numerous issues with my MAF sensor, brand new Z06 sensor, which I tracked down to probable over oiling from the filter when it was made. So I cleaned it, and re oiled it per instructions. And it still seemed to get oil on my MAF sensor. Also seemed to get dirty fast. I wasnt positive that it was the filter causing my MAF issues, so I decided to ditch the K&N before buying a new MAF to see what happened.

I switched to an Amsoil Dryflow filter. Seemed to have good flow/filter specs, and best of all, no oil. Just blow it out from the inside with compressed air or vacuum it. Maybe it was just me...but as soon as I installed it my MAF problems disappeared and the car ran trouble free. I never had another MAF code, and I never had to clean the MAF out with cleaner. Its blue color sort of threw me off a bit, but after a while I kinda liked it.

Granted this was on a custom intake with no bellows or any stock type parts beside the MAF. So you guys with stock motors and stock airboxes might have different experiences. Not saying I wouldnt buy a K&N for my daily driver Jetta or anything. But for me, it'll likely be OEM paper or Amsoil filters from now on in my cars.

J.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

Oh yeah they say they could dirty your MAF with the oil especially on some applications where the filter is directly next to the MAF. But say on a stock TPI setup, the two square filters in the airbox, to the MAF. Doubt any harm can come of that. MAF sensors can get dirty with a regular filter too and act crazy also. But I have seen the Kn do that for sure.

Ron U.S.M.C.

Since the MAF has been mentioned a few times on this thread I thought I would ask "what are the symptoms of a failing/dirty sensor?

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

Just odd symptoms maybe a little hesitation, havnt really seen a no start from it. but hesitation, surging, poor fuel economy etc..

White'89

iTrader: (8)

The filter dispute is downright silly. If it works use it, if it doesn't get a different one.

And for those of you and your "just cause you can't see it doesn't mean its not there" are out of your mind. Drag cars with turbos and blowers don't even have air filters and they have some of the most expensive motors, you think they are worried about dust particals?

I have never seen a motor with any kind of working air filter blow up because something got past it. I run dry K&N filters for that reason.

dannyboyemt

Pretty sure those top fuel drag cars get rebuilt every full throttle pass they make. Not sure if its a full tear down or partial but those motors dont live very long making 7k HP. and they are backed by multi million dollar sponsors. Those guys are going down the strip in a handful of seconds compared to road race cars where there is constant debris being kicked up and other cars out in front and endurance is a huge part of road racing or even WRC/Rally. Pretty sure those guys are running air filters. Just 1 cylinder of the 8 from a top fuel motor makes 750HP, bout the same as a NASCAR motor. (someone correct me if im wrong)Even NASCAR motors are only meant to live for 800-900 miles before being rebuilt again and im pretty sure they use filters. 500 miles for the race, the rest for qualifying and shakedown i would assume.

danziger

Nope, no gain with the filter removed totally. A clean filter with adequate area shouldn't be much of a restriction on a street engine with around 300rwhp anyways...

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

I hear 7000-8000k horsepower. they do get rebuilt after every run. no air filtration. when your makign that much power and do often rebuilts why run an air filter. now i am not sure if nascar runs filters or not

Bman92rs

There's also the option of getting a spectre build your own cold air kit like the guys from horsepower tv did for their 305 tbi. the spectre custom cai, full update on synthetic fluids, spark plugs, wires, distributor, a hypertech chip and thermostat, and the car gained like 20 hoeses, 17 ft/lbs of torque, and 3 miles to the gallon. They ended up spending about $600 for all of that. You could always do that system, it looked like a really nice setup imo. I'm considering doing it myself. Though I haven't heard very much about spectre as a company. Only heard about it from that show, and my coworker who's big on offroading, but he treats his jeep like **** so I'm personally not to trusting of his opinion.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

spectre has always been known for cheap stuff. mostly for engine dresssing ex. chrome water necks, timing covers etc...they also sell a different setup that I think is better jegs offers it. it has an airbox, tubes etc...

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Its not a dispute really... We're all sharing experiences and knowledge. Thats what this forum is for. Some of us have "been there done that" and like to help the guys that are just going through something for the first time. I know if I knew nothing about air filters Ide like to read info/opinions/experiences before making a choice. Just sayin...

What the other guys said about the drag cars is true. They get gone through every pass more or less. And there isnt much dust/debris going on at the strip. Generally pretty clean air. But in traffic/road race/off road applications, you better believe a good filter system is important.

Wanna see some damaged motors? Run with some of the off road guys for a while. I was using a Spectre filter on my cherokee for awhile. Until a fairly decent sized piece of dirt got in and tore one of my valve seats up. Found it when doing the tear down sitting right on top of the valve. After fixing the motor, I ran a K&N (no maf sensor) WITH a foam baffle around that. And I cleaned that sucker regliously after every off road trip. It happens trust me. How you are using the motor effects your chances of it causing issues. A dry K&N is better than a cheapo spectre IMO. Heck stock paper is better than those if you ask me.

J.

thomas1976

The guys on that show are either modding that RS to toss it in the stupid toy show car category or they have no clue of what they are dealing with.

Spectre is made in china garbage. I can understand that for some people a ducting piece is a ducting piece no matter were it's made, as the main difference is the price and the social-economical consequence and not the ducting capacety.

But a garbage air filter no matter how cheap, is a bad choice.

White'89

iTrader: (8)

I wasn't just speaking of top fuel cars, those things are pretty much warped after every run. Now as for off road that should be pretty much a no brainer to have a very good filter, and multiple inlets and filters IMO because having a filter caked with mud is how you screw up a motor.

But for street and track use, which is where pretty much everyone here is going to be I don't believe you can go wrong. Of course for me whether its speakers, air filters, or even remote control cars, if it says 'Made in China' I throw it away.