dabird07

iTrader: (10)

http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...4816685ac3b639


i see these on alot of builds it says for 20 hp ( depending on mods)

but was wondering from fellow tgo members,
did u feel a difference, maybe hear a difference in exhaust due to more air?? jw

young with alot of thoughts and many more questions

Props

Every little thing helps. "almost" but yes I felt and heard a difference I of course did more then just the runners so hard to judge just how much came from just the runners but like I said every little thing helps especially if you are comparing them to the stock ones let me know before you buy I actually have a set here I could sell you in perfect operating order just took them off to superram my car woohoo when you are ready to really step it up accel superram!!! But until then SLP runners are pretty trick I still have the receipt for mine the guy paid like 399 for them WAYYYY back in like 91 or something

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

They will show very little gain without major porting.

DJP87Z28

SLP TPI runners have been sold since the first Factory TPI engine came out. That is a lot of years for a performance part to be available. Do they work yes, do they add 20 Hp??. I have had them for ten years on my crate engine.

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

Damn i'd rather save my money for a couple extra paychecks and get a stealth ram. The price
for runners is ridiculous.

formula forever

what about mpg? You think you will free up some extra miles by switching to the high flow slp's

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

Truth, back when I had my TPI, I bought a set ( when they were $299), and the ports were barely bigger than stock, very rough cast in the inside port, you NEED to port them to see the 20hp plus port your base and plenum to match. I had a terrible vacuum leak on mine, requiring milling the top flange.

Gotta say I agree with robertfrank here on this one, $400+ bones on these is a waste, that's 100$ shy of a stealth ram which WILL perform way better than a set of crappy SLP runners.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

The 1st design SLP runners were different than the ones they sell now. I have a post that shows the diffence somewhere. The 1st design was very crude in its finish work but with some minor welding and port shaping I'd bet they would make waaay more power than the SLPs that are currently made, unless the 2nd design is cut open and seriously milled out.
SLPs are not "high flow" at all. However, they are a bit shorter in total length than the factory runners.

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

geussing the elderbrock one is thesame?

AussieIROC66

I'm seeing this price on the link....

89-92 SLP TPI Intake Runners [20004]

$285.00 $276.45

AussieIROC66

So maybe the question is what's the 'BEST' Intake Runners & what's the 'BEST' bang for your buck?


EDIT......

I was just thinking about my question after posting and I thought - that would depend on if your after Torque or Horsepower.

Wouldn't Torque be better if you could get it?

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

depends wat ure cars made for but trqs always good! but they are expensive!

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

I could tell a difference. Seems like the top end is a little more stout. I also did a larger throttle body and AFPR

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Did you feel like you lost a little torque down low? or i should say did the runners move your torque band up a little?

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

If it did I can't "feel" it. It just feels like the motor runs smoother than other TPI cars I have had, driven, been in and the acceleration up high is more constant. Only thirdgen I have been in that had a larger throttle body and runners. Still have stock exhaust manifolds. It just doesn't give up as easy on the top end as it the other TPI cars I had with stock runners. It accelerates nice and smooth. I will say they were a turd to put on. Uses up the little bit of real estate around the top of the motor. I also used an SLP bolt kit, the long straight allen tool that comes with it helped being able to tighten down the runners in the lower end as there is alot less space now.

on my car I have installed:
K&N filters, front Maf screen removed, 52mm or 58mm TPIS throttle body (I checked it but can't remember), Accel runners, the runners were matched to the plenum and manifold and vice versa, larger Edelbrock and BBK gaskets to fit, the TPIS throttle body has an airfoil in it, basically new/stock injectors from FIC, AFPR, MSD wires, cap, and rotor, Summit coil, stock manifolds;
I just replaced the motor and it is an all stock L98 but has ben rebuilt and Icleaned each valve by hand.

I say all this because I am sure results will vary based on condition of your engine and other add ons you have. But all in all if I bought another TPI car, I would want larger runners and a larger throttle body again as I am pretty pleased with them.

As a helpful hint I would say use some kind of light lubricant like dish soap and water etc so the gaskets don't tear when you try and put the plenum on. It was really tight.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

When putting a TPI together you should start all the bolts B4 you tighten any of them.. I Use Pam on the gaskets so they don't stick and you can reuse them..

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

thats my main goal in my 305 im building i just want it to flow good.

so far my mods
fully ported polished intake ,
fully ported polished heads
stock runners injectors fpr
and throttle body with a airfoil from hyper tech
k-n rc 5000 filter
hooker headers
lt1 cam 450 lift range
2.5 exhaust soon to be three


doing this cause i want my engine to breathe.

now with all this useful info on this thread i wanna point out something else i plan on getting soon (a bigger engine lol)

bosch 3 from south bay
afpr from somewhere
and accel runners or elderbrock

will these three upgrades be worth it?

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

how about a custom tune when all is done. There is a lot to be found in a good tune/chip.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Bingo. No torque gets lost, it merely gets raised in the RPM band, just need to tune around it for the increased volume of air at lower RPM's. In my opinion though, the runners are a waste of money. Siamesing the lower intake runner ports will outflow the SLP runners while using the stock runners. Also, regarding the HSR being a better deal, it very well may be, but the SLP runners allows you to maintain EGR, which is why they can get away with being so costly...

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

sounds like you have all the torque you need with that turbo. hahaha

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I honestly wish I did. I'm running a 3500 stall speed, and I hit 5000+ RPM's instantaneously, and the cam that I am running doesn't have enough duration to take advantage of the higher RPM. Gonna go with a CC306, but tuning it is going to be a nightmare at idle...

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

what rear end gear are you running? I heard a 273 or 277 on our cars would be much better for turbo.

hrspwr

iTrader: (3)

So porting the lower intake like the one above and using the stock runners, this allows you to use both runners(not siamesed) for each port to pull air from? Would this not act like a smaller runner legnth setup?

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

yes, but you will still need bigger runners to benefit. The stock runners will be a bottleneck.That my opinion.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

I think the best idea would be to not lose any low end torque at all but to gain on the high end as well as on the low end. The TPIS system does this. It is an extrude honed stock lower base with bigger runners,but instead gains low end torque. Any other scenerio i have seen seems to move the power band up and yes you will lose low end torque in many parts of the lower rpms with anything else i have seen.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

I think the AS&M runners are the same length as the stock runners but they are also bigger in diameter. Every other set of runners out there are shorter. Shorter runners move the powerband up. The HSR intake and Miniram,etc all do this too but more extreme. You will lose low end torque in many parts of the lower rpm powerband.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

I estimated the HP and TQ numbers from the article’s graphs using a squaring ruler for the numerical chart listed below. If HP vs TQ came out different than what they should have calculated, I split the difference to come up with the following numbers. So the numbers should be fairly accurate. I plugged the HP and TQ numbers for the TPiS, ASR, and HSR intake systems into a worksheet to get an overlay of sorts from the top three intakes (in my opinion). I’m only listing the HP numbers,, which were painful enough to put in this format.

RPM -- TPI -- TPiS - ASM -- ASR -- HSP -- HSR - MR
2600 - 200 -- 207 -- 198 -- 188 -- 190 -- 190 -- 186
2800 - 222 -- 235 -- 221 -- 205 -- 206 -- 206 -- 202
3000 - 260 -- 271 -- 262 -- 240 -- 230 -- 237 -- 215
3200 - 290 -- 308 -- 290 -- 278 -- 258 -- 270 -- 258
3400 - 316 -- 332 -- 319 -- 314 -- 286 -- 297 -- 282
3600 - 338 -- 355 -- 340 -- 337 -- 307 -- 320 -- 308
3800 - 360 -- 381 -- 360 -- 359 -- 332 -- 340 -- 328
4000 - 379 -- 410 -- 383 -- 382 -- 357 -- 363 -- 348
4200 - 390 -- 420 -- 408 -- 405 -- 377 -- 387 -- 370
4400 - 400 -- 438 -- 422 -- 421 -- 398 -- 411 -- 388
4600 - 406 -- 441 -- 440 -- 430 -- 418 -- 431 -- 409
4800 - 410 -- 448 -- 450 -- 443 -- 440 -- 449 -- 425
5000 - 409 -- 453 -- 457 -- 453 -- 456 -- 460 -- 449
5200 - 410 -- 447 -- 463 -- 470 -- 465 -- 475 -- 468
5400 - 407 -- 445 -- 460 -- 474 -- 475 -- 485 -- 475
5600 - 409 -- 448 -- 452 -- 480 -- 488 -- 497 -- 485
5800 - 407 -- 450 -- 450 -- 474 -- 493 -- 499 -- 500
6000 - 406 -- 450 -- 449 -- 453 -- 490 -- 501 -- 501
6200 - 404 -- 448 -- 448 -- 452 -- 486 -- 495 -- 504

TPI - Stock TPI, unported plenum, 47mm t/b
TPIS – Stock Extrude Honed base, TPiS LTR, ported plenum, 52mm (similar curve to TPiS base)
ASM - BigMouth base, AZ S&M Semi-Siamessed Tubes, ported plenum, 52mm
ASR – BigMouth base, Accel SuperRam Upper, Accel 1000cfm (edit)
HSP - Holley Single Plane MPFI, 1000cfm 4bbl T/B
HSR - Holley StealthRam, 58mm (edit)
MR - TPiS MiniRam, 52mm

Best numbers generated by system (variance of 3hp) from to rpm listed.
TPiS System (207 – 441hp) from 2600 – 4600 rpm
ASM System (440 – 457hp) from 4600 – 5000 rpm
HSR System (460 -501 hp) from 5000 – 6000 rpm
MR System (500 – 504hp) from 5800 – 6400 rpm

Check that out, i got that from another thread on the effects of intakes and runners on our engines.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

That intake is mine, and all that matters is the depth of the siamesing when you do your porting. The deeper the siamesing, the more volume the cylinders have to draw from in that particular area. Each intake valve will pull air from both sides of the stock runners at that particular point, which is very substantial as it is. No SLP runners needed, especially on a naturally aspirated setup. This is what I am running on my setup, the intake above, and the stock modified runners that I did myself...;

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

3.08...

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Only thing is you are running turbo. That is totally different. I would imagine on a N/A setup that Siamese the lower base would make you lose low end torque.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

With the stock cam yes, but a different grind will bring it right back. When I swapped to an HSR on my old L98 IROC it moved plenty of torque upward in the RPM band, but a cam swap brought my averaged torque right back, and followed through, throughout...

hrspwr

iTrader: (3)

I think I know the answer to this question but will voice it anyway. What is the difference if you have aftermarket runners not siamesed and open up the intake like the picture above, or if leave the lower but siamese the runners say half way? To add which would be more beneficial(loaded question, guess this is based on needs or wants for the particular app)?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Any type of siamesing increases your RPM potential, it essentially shortens the distance from the plenum to the combustion chambers by providing more of a volume of air for the engine to draw from. It "lifts" (raises) the power in your RPM band. No torque is lost, it is just raised. The horsepower gained, is from an RPM level the engine has never realized before, but the potential for it was always there...

hrspwr

iTrader: (3)

On a NA motor I can see the benefit for siaamesing the lower. More available air for the motor. Now what about boost. Does this still play a part? Or is it better to have individual runners (as cast, no siamesing), with porting?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

You sir are obsesed with this low end torque!! I think every post I have read of yours in last day or 2 is about making more 2,500rpm and lower.
At a certain point you will want to ditch that idea and build a nice broad torque band with HP to carry you out the back door.
To much low rpm TQ will just make the car harder to stick to the pavement. unless you want to keep your 2.41-2.73 gears.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

It depends on your goal, overall, always. I siamesed my setup because of my target RPM, and because of my turbo map. I needed the system to be street legal (EGR) and for it to flow as good as an LT1 intake, and when I say flow as good as an LT1 intake I mean velocity wise (the speed of the air)...

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

here is some more stock runners from facebook

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

street lethal you ever get ure time on a dragstrip?

and a regular dremel can do this?

i have a polished intake where the runners hook up but asked the guy at a local shop to take away as much curve from inside the intake and he did fro me for a fairly cheep price!

now doing what the pic shows below...

and keeping the intake the same (cause its on the motor)

help spread my rpm range?

maybe a stupid question i believe it does just wanna ask some opinions

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Numbers from the old combo, but that was w/stock LC2 30-lb injectors pegged (static) at only 12-psi of boost, baby cam and T76 turbo; 11.5x @ 117. There was so much more left in that combo though, but I since upped to the T88, bigger cam, and much larger injectors. New combo will be close to, if not in the nines, I guarantee it.

Yes...

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

dang 30 pound injectors on a 305! and ure going bigger and you say much bigger!

curious ure fuel pump?

also i hear turbos on motors actaully help gas mileage due to lowering compression? dont know if this is true some guy at a local shop with a mustang said this.

(dont really know much about turbos)

and for you to still have stock runners just with a crazy ported base that can still flow enouh air through makes me want to buy a dremel myself.
even though that turbo does help

so next to buy a dremel and a turbo!

SiCkRs

iTrader: (6)

Not wanting to change the subject but i have a question how did you mod the stock runners like that?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I have to run larger injectors because I am converting to E85, fuel pump is a DW300. Turbo's will make an engine run more efficiently, but I have actually lost mpg because of my camshaft, not to mention very heavy foot...

Finesse them with a light speed (low RPM) drill w/correct dremel bit...

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Google aluminum porting tools. There is a lot of info out there on this.
Looking at how little those are ported I'm going to guess its maybe worth 1/2-1hp.

SiCkRs

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for the advice. Im not looking for big gains every little things helps and add ups.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I wasn't looking for that much of an increase in volume because I am running a turbo, also, I velocity ported them, as I was more concerned with the contour and speed of the flow, the quality of the existing cc and not the quantity because again it is blown. I plan on 30-psi with the T88 and the flow needs to be as smooth as possible, no obstructions. Not to mention, doing this mod to the stock runners without siamesing the lower intake is essentially useless...

SiCkRs

iTrader: (6)

Well what i was thinking of doing at first was siamesing the base and plenum and that was all since i didn't know i could port the stock runners a little. My goal is to keep a stock tpi system and just put my novi-2000 for a good torque engine.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

That is an excellent goal. Remember, the shortest path from one distance to another is a straight line, and within that path the idea is to remove any obstructions that may slow the air intake down...

SiCkRs

iTrader: (6)

So it would be best if i smooth all of the inside of the plenum as well to get everything smooth and not have restrictions as well.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Exactly, much like why people install airfoils on their throttle bodies, this provides for a better contour into the plenum. Speaking of which, look at the bottom of the plenum (inside of it), and you will see "speed bumps", just like you will see in the ports throughout the stock cylinder heads. The idea is to grind them down flat and smooth (especially in the heads), as any little bit of an obstruction will cause turbulence, and the only time we want to have turbulence is during quench, not during the intake stroke...

SiCkRs

iTrader: (6)

Oh alright yeah i have the air foil too... You mean by the inlet of the throttle body on the plenum or on the sides on the runner ports?