project89

iTrader: (1)

this is my review of the assault racing heads , figured id do a review of theese since the procomp and other cheap heads come up from time to time


first off these are not the same casting as the procomp heads , these are leaps and bounds far better

these heads are 399 shipped to ur door bare for the pair


out of the box they flow
.200 145
.300 199
.400 234
.500 249
.600 257
.700 259

freshly taken out of the box as u can see they are setup for perimiter or center bolt valve covers





nice clean intake ports


not the right intake gasket




same witht he ex ports



now heres a few things u need to know

1st up is a standard gen 1 manifold may or may not seal up on the top of the intake ports , my tpi intake would just and i mean just seal up , but i wouldnt trust it to hold that seal





u really need to run a raised runner intake , or a vortec intake , i am using a vortec hsr on mine


second thing u need to know is what the differences in this casting verses the actualy dart pro 1 platnium casting

its not much actually
the 2 main things that stick out to me are that the copys only have a 3 angle valve job , while the real darts have a 5 angle valve job

#2 is the real darts have cnc'ed bowl areas , the copys dont , but the bowls on the copys need minimal clean up work

picture of the real darts




and here is the copys



all in all for 399 shipped these are a helluva great deal and will make some nice power , as they sit out of the box im expecting to make around 425hp n/a with 9.0-1 cr and a summit 224/224 cam with the hsr ( may not seem like alot but im building a turbo motor so its not setup to make max hp n/a )
these heads can also be ported to flow over 300 cfm

my biggest advice if u get a set is to buy them bare like i did and put good valve springs locks retianers and valves in them , if u buy them complete u have no clue as to what quality all that stuff will be


any questions just ask

87v6Bird

iTrader: (1)

I was curious to see what a set of these looked like. I'm assuming those flow numbers are on the intake side? Also, when you say that you're not sure a Gen 1 manifold will seal what are you trying to show in the first picture?

Thanks for posting this.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i actually have another picture that goes with that first one i gota upload that shows just how lil bit of material there is to seal up the port with a standard intake

yes those are intake side i have the ex numbers somewere as well they are just as nice

these heads downright outflow the procomps by leaps and bounds , and the new skip white heads (nbk) dont even come close

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Is 200cc a little too big for a street 350?

project89

iTrader: (1)

depends on what u call street , but yes they would be better suited to a 383 type build for the street
proper cam and converter no reason why they wont be good in a street 350 though

one of the mags just did some back to back testing doing 180-195-200-215-227 cc heads on a small street motor and the results were very surprising

iirc the 200-s were only down from the 180/195's by a couple ftlbs of tq but made more hp
the larger heads were down a bit on tq but made alot more hp

87v6Bird

iTrader: (1)

Flow does look really good. Would it be possible for you to CC the runners? I've read 200cc is a good size for 383+ engines.

The intake I have sat up high enough that it interfered with me getting good valve cover seal and I ended up using stacked gaskets. So I would think I have more to work with in the problem area. Hopefully your other picture will clear up just how close it is.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i dont have the tools to cc the runners right now , i may be able to get some though


there might be some info on that in this thread though
http://www.1320techtalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2256

edit it states actual cc is 198 out of the box

midias

If you are looking for something a little bigger you may want to step up to the bowtie 180cc vortec heads.

Or patriot / promaxx makes a 185cc version in aluminum and iron.

87v6Bird

iTrader: (1)

That link answers my questions. Thanks. If it mentioned the brand anywhere in there I would have found it on my own...



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project89

iTrader: (1)

the seller on ebay just brands them as assualt racing , but gets them from the smae place the guy in that thread gets his , thats why they dont list the brand

1gary

Any company that makes claims to be a copy of something that is better I figure they a lowlife bottom feeder scumbags that I do not want to do business with. Yep a deal breaker.

project89

iTrader: (1)

the company doesnt claim them to be anything , i went out and found what they were copys of

they are just sold as a 200cc 64cc chamber head.
it just so happens to turn out its a very good casting and damn decent head

1gary

So they are forgers??. Well that = a lack of knowledge = a lack of R & D = which means a limited amount of tech support = they are thieves = as stated low life scumbag bottom feeders.

See how well that worked out..................

Same old,same old,you never break the common rule in life,you get what you pay for...................................deals just because??.Naw!!!!.

TennesseeIroc-Z

iTrader: (7)

Haven't found many reviews on these, stumbled onto one at home....
Whatdoyaknow....lol

Looks like a decent head for the money. Interested in how they perform. How are the threads and such?

project89

iTrader: (1)

everything was good on them , the only thing i found wrong was on the ex side of one of the heads , it looks liek the milling machine table rocked , and the back side of the cutter bit , but its purely cosmetic. only reason i even noticed it is cause i do machine work , and ive had that happen to me before

86redIROC

Im not that impressed with the flow #s for a 200cc head.......

midias

At least they flow better than the procomp 210cc heads.

86redIROC

Trick Flow 175cc with 1.94 valves flow as good as these at .500 lift and I bet the velocity is way better.

midias

Yes but less at lower lift and I am guessing they cost more than $300 per pair unassembled. Not saying that trick flow are not better but these are probably one of the better budget heads.

project89

iTrader: (1)

u guys are forgeting this is an as cast head
once ported these heads will flow way over 300 cfm , put these heads in the hands of a skilled porter and u have a killer head very cheap

for the price u really cant beat it

86redIROC

The Trick Flows are as cast too. I realize these are cheap but as 1Gary said most times you get what you pay for eventually.

midias

I guess we will find out how good they do when he build up that monster 1000hp motor.

bygddy

Some of this seems like a stupid conversation just for the sake of an argument....at the end of the day we all know they don't flow what an AFR head flows (someones favorite "go too" head).
We all know they won't have the tech support of an AFR head.
What they are is a budget head in a market full of budget heads. Nothing wrong with that, so now someone reports flow numbers and pics of the product and we go off about theives and forgers?
Dumb.... welcome to the real world, very little is "original" these days.... again, nothing wrong with that. They are a surprisingly good casting with lots of room for porting and in the right hands can and have made big power. If this wasn't a "budget" build and the OP wanted to spend the cash then Im sure it would be wearing a pair of Profilers touched by Speier's but that wasn't the case. I'm not trying to swing on anyone's nuts here but I appreciated the pics and info and will take it into consideration when I need to purchase my next set of heads.

jokerZ71

They do look like a good budget head.Better than most.I wish they came in a smaller size.I would be a little worried about fuel suspension on a 350 w/ street gear & stall.it prolly won't be that big of a deal using injection tho.

project89

iTrader: (1)

the main point was for ppl who need to replace a set of heads , whats the current most budget head swap currently? , id have to say the vortec head swap

when u compare the cost of a set of used or new vortecs + machine work , then compare them to the cost of theese these are much more attractive

not to mention compare these to other budget heads

of course u can have these ported and have a pretty dam good set of heads

im running these with a mild cleanup and nothing more , should have no problems making 400-425 hp na and tons more with the twin 61mm turbos

they arent afr's by any means but cost vs performance makes this a very atractive head to most who arent building all out race cars

1gary

I got today the 2014 AFR catalog.To paint them as race only and not a good bang for your buck further proves you don't have a clue.

Sorry for the blunt post,but it is what it is............

Don't forget a company that "copies" someone else's "work product" undermines to whole concept of the word "hot rodding".Take a minute to consider that before you reply.

joshc

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the review! I had been looking at upgrading to a budget head like this in the future. These look great for the money.

bygddy

Nobody said they were a "race only" head..... the implication is for your average Joe, who isn't looking for, or can afford a maximum effort motor, there may be better choices then the almighty AFR. I'm aware that your opinion is AFR heads are the be all and end all, that the were forged by god himself, and that anyone who is a "real" hot rodder should be willing to sacrifice whatever it takes to buy the best parts the first time out. Think chrst your in the minority and most guys just wanna enjoy the hobby and understand that concessions have to be made to get their junk on the road and actually enjoy it. And AFR are quality pieces, but don't fit "bang for the buck".... you instead can look at Pro-filer or god forbid, Speiers Racing for a set of.....yep....offshore heads....which iguarandamntee you will make more power then out of the box AFR's for less money. Most people , including Speiers understand the need for a budget head. Its really not that complicated.

project89

iTrader: (1)

hes not worth arguing with , funny part is ive prolly thrown away cyl heads that are worth more then the engines hes built
ive played with everything from street cars to nitro harley's to top fuel funny cars/dragsters and even jet cars

jokerZ71

Tearing down products & work that you have no experience or knowledge of does serve a purpose & some are better @ it than others.They even carry it with them when they travel.

1gary

Drove a T/F when I was a kid and wrenched on it,recent most expensive engine was a 632 BBC that went 4.56 @ 150 in the 1/8. As long as you asked.

Aaaaaa yes,good to see a showing of my fan club.Oh well.

But Boys do burn this in your memory.You get what you paid for!!!!.

And with AFR it is a lifetime warranty.Their street version heads are pretty dam strongly competitively priced.

They are not some second rate knock-off company.

TennesseeIroc-Z

iTrader: (7)

I look at it like this.

I've got about 3 grand for the year to play with for my hot rod. I'm not a rich man, work hard for my money, raising 2 daughters in elementary school and help support my wife's re-education. I'm no different than a lot of guys, I have to be very thoughtful about what I do and how I do it. But I've managed to squirrel away around 3 grand to play. ( don't tell my wife) lol.

My car needs tires, suspension, and I desperately want to wake my goodwrench 350 up. I've got the bolt ons done on the motor, got a "decent" Performer RPM cam, headers, bla bla you get it I'm sure. Heads are next in the "go faster" department. Have been for a while, hence the saving.
Now here's the hard part. What to buy? Tires, figure an easy $700 bucks. And suspension, where do I start? I need springs, shocks and a panhard bar. Ground control has a deal right now for weight jacks, springs, and Konis for $1200 bucks. Dang I want that package bad.

So, the delimma is simple....
Konis or Profilers?
Or maybe Konis and Vortecs or Worlds? Or used heads....
Or p.o.s. Shocks and AFRs or Profilers?

Naw, can't do the crappy suspensionI really need the shocks, but just want the heads. The smart thing to do would be to purchase what I can now, and keep on squirrel'n, but as most hot Rodders are,
I ain't very smart sometimes.

So I'm lookin around, see'n what's what. Looked at the NEw Kid on the Block heads...( ahh, hell no, just cause I ain't buyn heads with a worn out 80's boy band name. My wife would laugh forever....)

How about these assault heads? Let's check and see what this is...google google...

And here I am. It's nice to know there are options I can fancy myself with. I'm sure there not the quality of the other heads I've been lusting for. Better than spending a grand on worked 202 double humps or Vortecs? Looks like a maybe.

This head is not for everybody. Sure, you probably get what you pay for. But do I shun away just cause some guy acts like a jerk just cause he's got something better, or knows something that's better? Or just says so? No. It actually makes me want them out of principle.

What am I going to do? Who knows, I'm still shopping. But I definitely ain't buyn AFR's. I've made my mind up on that subject.

And I got a 2014 AFR catalog too.

Cheers

bygddy

Hey Joker, nice to see you here lol

Yeah, its the same old speach, just a different soapbox.....
For me it comes down a choice, I can buy the best, and put that before my family and my responsibilities.
I can save for the best, and bench race with the forum guys forever while never actually driving my toys.
Or I can shop smart, spread my small budget out further by not buying top name brand parts in search of every last HP available and not keeping up with the Jonses, then actually get off the computer and enjoy my junk often.

Seems like a simple choice.

jokerZ71

Hey ...I been around hidin in the corner for awhile.Finally registerd so I could participate.LOL.I don't mind someone bashing a product or service if they have experience either personal or extended,but,to just openly bash it to sound important...well you know what I mean.I'm new here,so,i'll be quiet.LOL.These heads do seem to be a really good deal tho.

jokerZ71

#1...I ain'tcha boy !!! #2 ....Think of it more as a BS Patrol rather than a fan club.

1gary

Well BOY we on that merry go round again??.



Yep the injury sustained to my left hand when the flopper I was driving crashed.LOL is certainly is a lifetime reminder of horse hockey or not.

Couple of questions for ya.

Is this not a not a knock off company?.

Is it not true you get what you pay for??.

Is it not true all these companies are in business to make money??. Profit??

Is it not true AFR has a lifetime warranty??. BTW I'm holding their 2014 catalog in my hands right now.

Is it not true most knock off companies sooner or later go belly up stranding it's customers??.

Lastly,is it not true yes you do paid for a name,and no less all the R & D that created that name which you yourself can't do on your own and want.

Opps-more than acouple of questions.Time and again we has tried to use the same kind of situations you boys line up to do and regretted every single one where at first the item seemed to be great but didn't last long.See been there done that. Anywhere from bad castings to save money to inferior aluminum(yes it does come in different grades),to poor or missing machining.

Time and again reading and beening directly involved in the should da could da do-overs that end up costing more than the thing you should have bought in the first place. That is not any B.S.

Trolling for some kind of a patrol??. Well your the troll................. so

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

What does AFR offer a lifetime warranty on? Im curious. They are gonna offer a lifetime warranty against their heads cracking if you overheat your engine and keep driving? i'd like to see what their warranty says.

jokerZ71

#1 No,it is not a knock off.It is advertised as a 200cc/64cc cylinder head.
#2 Sometimes
#3 Yes.AFR included.
#4 IDK
#5 No.Not true.
#6 This company has R&D as well.They researched & developed a way to produce a nice cylinder head for a lot less than someone else that may not perform as well,but,it is worth the price pd.
The BS I was referring to was not that AFR is a better head.They are.The BS I was referring to is your baseless rants & namecalling of ppl,services,product that you know nuthin about just to make yourself feel better & try to make others feel dumb for not ......ya know what nevermind,i don't wanna do this to Project"s thread.Thanks Project89 for the pics & review of the heads.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Well i dont know for certain but this has been labeled a copy of dart heads. Dart casts their own in the usa and this overseas company dimensionalized/reverse engineered the dart casting. That is definition of knock off imo. China does millions of items this way, flooding market with knock offs. Most of low quality but some are acceptable. I am not happy with it but there isnt anything we can do.
I trust a head porters opinion when they have a proven track record with the products they sell. If this casting is accepted as a base offering for heads by this individual, then i am confident the budget knock off will work great and are suitable for use in builds. I was very close to having this casting on my twin turbo car but went with a different model instead since i felt a bigger port was needed.

The rest of the budget heads will be hit or miss until i see some respected head guys use them and provide their reviews of the quality.

Budget castings have their place no doubt. And buying big brand stuff also doesnt guarantee great quality either, although it should.

mccl6927

Im excited to see how these turn out for you. I was looking at them the other day thinking they have surely got to be better than my 150k+ mile ported swirl ports. Id love to buy the best money can get but If i was to save up for a $1500 set of heads id never get this thing going. hell, why not just buy a new ZL-1? we get what we pay for.

Id also like to see the intake issues youre running into there.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i wont be using the tpi , i bought an vortec hsr , that bolts on perfectly

bygddy

Exactly what I was saying, last year I had the extra cash to buy a set of Profilers, being in Canada with shipping and brokerage etc it was around 1500 bucks.... had the money for "good" heads, so I spent it. Things are a little different this year, I have 3 cars on the go, and want to actually drive them all this summer. So if I have to choose between 1500$ heads or $600 heads and getting to finish one of the other vehicles then that's what I will do. Its not right or wrong, its a choice, will I go buy NKB heads? Nope... I haven't heard and real world testing yet, and Skip writes an ammusimg sales pitch and I don't have an issue using his stuff, but until I hear more about them I wouldn't spend my cash on them. The assault heads have been tested, and flowed, and have shown good results, not to mention the big name head guys that use them as a budget ported head. Its a choice, get my junk running now, next year, or perhaps never....some guys like to talk....and enjoy telling everyone stories of days gone by and what they have accomplished while their "project" rots away in a barn with a half built 383 sitting on a stand waiting for the best of the best. Other guys buy what they can afford and actually drive their stuff.....anyways, I will now step off my own soapbox and shut my pie hole... my point is made.

jokerZ71

^^^ X 2 !!!

Dialed_In

iTrader: (3)

You'll be happy about all the money you saved......right up until the point when the seats fall out.

project89

iTrader: (1)

and what makes u think the seats are going to fall out

bygddy

Maybe.....but they were $400 heads.... and if they last 2 seasons.....and they make big power.....then so what? At that point the combo is sorted out, the weak links are found, and its being driven. If the heads need to be replaced a couple seasons in, then another choice can be made, spend the money on a better head and look for better longevity, or spend $400 and do it again.....and I think the internet fear mongering has tainted reality. These are not the old first run Procomps, hell even pro comp stepped up in the last few years. But people with zero experience using the product hear about a few guys that had problems, and start spreading the news like they were bolted to their own motors and caused them huge money and hassles. Then you factor in the guys that selected the wrong parts for their application, 210 heads on a mild 350, incorrect compression, wrong carbs, too big cam, to small cam, improper machining...the guys that DONT pay attention to details. But hey, they bought "shty budget heads" and blame them for their overheating, underpowered, stumbly small blocks.... and please don't tell me we don't all know someone just like that.....

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I for one think this is a worthwhile experiment. No one knows if they're durable until someone runs them. Project 89 seems like he's been doing penny pincher builds for a while, Im sure he's aware and accepting of any potential pitfalls that may occur. That's a gamble he already decided to take.

And let's face it, these heads do not compete with the same market that AFR, Dart, RHS, etc do. They may be similar, but given the vast divergence in price range and reputation they are not going to get the same customers. People who buy these are not the same people who would have otherwise bought AFR's. These are people who would have otherwise bought Pro Comps or maybe Vortec heads.

project89

iTrader: (1)

it should be soon i have this engine running , all the remaining parts i need to complete it are schedualed for deliver threwout this week.

i am very tempted to see if i can find an engine dyno nearbye and dyno the engine n/a before the turbos go back on it

with my mild selection of parts im expecting around 400+/- hp out of it n/a
parts list is as follows

.020 over 350 = 353 ci
8.9-1 cr
summit 224/224 cam hyd flat
1.5/1.6 split rocker set
these heads
hsr vortec intake

change a few things around and it should make 450+ pretty damn easily , unfortunatly being as im building a forced induction motor i have to use a lower cr and smaller cam which kills off n/a power potential

1gary

In my lifetime I have been very lucky to have gone thru the charmed life and experiences I have.Some guys have no idea how much hands on I offer in my suggestions and what info is convened to me thru the trades.
While I was at the machine shop today dropping off a Howards crank to be balanced, I was pressed hard why do I brother with forums when I don't need to prove anything to anyone.

My best answer was/is a need to help out the next generation of hot rodders.

I do think that answers any of the questions.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Just because some people disagree with you doesn't mean your opinion isnt being taken into consideration. It's just a dissenting opinion that gets factored into the risk-analysis.

I also remember you saying that aluminum heads were a bad idea in general and basically suggested that everyone use iron heads.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...s-top-end.html

Have you changed your mind? It's not that you're wrong in what you said, it's just that maybe other people have different levels of acceptable risk.