sidwyz

So after 6 months I'm finally getting around to buyin rockers for my 355 lt1 with cc503 110° LSA n most likely new springs, I currently have lt4 springs that came new in the box with my engine, but considering dual 987's or beehive 98112....personal experience welcomed....

ALUMINUM I've read alot of knowledgeable guys suggest the scorpions. But elsewhere online I've read that over time they develop stress cracks and eventually break, so they aren't the best choice for a daily driver, a lot of people have these here so I'm looking for 1st hand experience of those who have rum the 20k miles or more please

STAINLESS STEEL it seems like this is the strongest option but its gonna weigh the most. I really don't understand how the weight of the valve train is gonna affect driveability.... to the point of me driving sayin "this rockers feel heavy". Also there's a lot of them really cheap on eBay, I know they aren't the best quality but how bad can stainless steel be? I haven't seen comps mention anything about their's being forged...so cast is cast rite?

CHROMOLY I've only read good things about these. From what comp says they flex little by little like the other two, except these get to a point where they are comfortable and have zero deflection. But then I'm wondering if they are still true ratios? Or are some of them going to be slightly off like the stamped factories.? On the other hand no one offers a knock off chromoly version. and they are only 60$ more than the scorpions. Further comp removed material from the low stress areas to lighten the body to the same weight as the aluminums.

The future of this engine will see LE1-or2 heads and a custom cam to get the most out of an HSR intake. Will be my daily driver until I pay off my student loans. Will see WOT twice a day @least, getting on the turnpike to and from work for a genuine smile everyday. Also some amatur drifting whenever I get bored and figure out how to get some more steering angle. Thanks in advance, I hope this brings out information everyone can use.

Dakota W.

Scorpions have a lifetime warranty, if they do crack, just have them replaced.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Are they gonna replace your pistons when the valves go through them?

I like steel rocker arms. I have Comp Pro Magnums (They aren't around anymore, the Ultra Pro Magnums replaced them, but same basic idea) and they may be "heavy", but their weight is centered on the pivot. There's a much smaller moment of inertia on them so they act like a much lighter rocker arm. You pay for it, but they use nice big bearings that can be rebuilt and they rocker body will last a LOT longer than aluminum. Just one less thing to worry about, and since the trunions are so much larger than a lot of the cheaper ones they can carry a lot more spring pressure for a lot longer. (The load is spread more)

I dont know about the moly ones... They may be great.

sidwyz

Infernal Im with you....I don't want to have to check my rockers for cracks once a week, every other day after 1k miles? When is the service interval? you know. Dakota I'm not downing your choice of rocker at all, if things are running smoothly then u have more figured out than I do.... My understanding is aluminums were made for race cars that get checked over often.

sidwyz

And the rebuilding is another thing I didn't expect to have to worry about, I understand they ride on a bearing but I thought they were needles, seems like they should last forever unless I have some sort of oiling issue rite? Are all "name brand" rockers rebuild able with the same components? Is this the real reason to stay away from 150.00 16pc. Sets on eBay? I wouldnt touch those in aluminum with some body else's di**....but the stainless counterparts....can I use dual springs as a condom? Lolz I know that isn't the intention of the 2nd spring but I've read more than once where that's exactly what happened

After rereading your post....is that the main difference in the cheap options....the bearing size/ design?

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Im running a set of scorprions with no issues at 10k miles. But if I were going to drive the car a lot then I would have went with the ultra pro magnums.

Dakota W.

The Scorpions were out of my price range, I went with cheap ebay ones to get the car running so I can get a job. They'll only be on there for less than 2k miles, I plan on getting scorpions shortly.

sidwyz

Dakota, did u go with cheap aluminum of stainless steel? And I've also read the scorpions, along with all aluminiums were on the noisy side. Are the steels a little quieter? That's another reason I considered the moly ones, I was hoping they wouldn't sound like a little train set on top of my engine

Dakota W.

They're aluminum, as far as noise, I have no idea. Can't really hear anything with open headers lol. I seriously don't expect them to last long, the paint was coming off of them (where the socket rubbed on top) when I was putting them on and off to get my correct pushrod length. Plus I won't be doing any WOT any time soon with a new healthy engine mated to a T5.

sidwyz

Lol I got cha, well I started reading about the pro mags n they are chromoly...so I think I've made up my mind. Does anybody know the cheapest place to buy them? Cheapest I've seen so far is 319.00 from summit with free shipping....and a tee shirt I believe lol

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

That explains why they discontinued the pro mags and now have "Ultra pro mags!".... They got rid of the steel ones for chrome moly ones. Interesting. They seem like the best all around option. If they replaced comp's steel full roller rockers completely that's pretty indicative of how confident they are in them.

Old pro magnums I have from 5 years ago:

87v6Bird

iTrader: (1)

I've got 20K on a set of Scorpions with no issues. Since they're full rollers, I get the "sewing machine" sound people describe. It's never bothered me though.

sidwyz

Thanks for your input bird. I wasn't sure if its the roller or aluminum body that makes the noise. Infernal, how does your sound with the steel body?. Those pro mags do look like a top dollar piece, what springs did you guys pair with these, I'm assuming they are 1.6's rite?

project89

iTrader: (1)

ive had issues with brand name and knockoff aluminum full roller rockers in street apps
for something ur going to drive everydy i still always recomend a stainless or steel roller tiped rocker not a full roller

Beater79TA

We put 50k miles on a set of Crane Gold aluminum roller rockers with absolutely no issues. Driving was a lot of daily driver use plus road course, autox, and drag race runs to 7k rpm. No signs of wear when we pulled the engine to put in a LS1 after 4 years of the 383.

sidwyz

Project89, that's the 1st time I've heard someone recommend roller tips, anyone I've talked to with them say they wish they'd spent the extra money on full rollers....do u think it was specific driving conditions or parts combinations that contributed to the failures? Which name brand model did u have trouble with, what type of failure?

Beater that makes me feel a lil better about aluminum...but can you still buy crane golds new? I thought they went out of business...I do remember back when I was just planning a build of some kind, EVERYONE had those

Beater79TA

I run the same rockers in my F1A Procharger car but not for as many miles as the 88 GTA had put on them. I purchased these rockers 4 years ago when we built the 383 for the car. The ones in my 92 have been in there even longer.
Based on a quick web search, Crane appears to be in business still but I do remember hearing they went out and came back at some point.

project89

iTrader: (1)

crane gold , and summits own brand of aluminum rockers( the blue ones) , ive had rollers go bad along with aluminum bodys cracking , this was in street/strip apps , one of the cars was driven on 400 mile round trips often. the other was just ur typical daily driver

not really sure what caused the failures and im sure the companys arent to blame we all know that no matter how good a company is there bound to have some parts breakage no matter what

its just my personal preference for a street/strip car that gets driven aot to use a roller tip instead of a full roller after my experience , unless of course u have a mechanical cam and ur pulling the valve covers every x amount of miles anyway then sure ahead go run the aluminum full rollers as u will deffinatly catch any issues while before they become a big one

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

I run steel roller tips. I haev full roller steel comp cams pro magnums to go on. I'd never run an aluminum rocker on a non race engine.

87oldschool

I have a full set (16) of Comp Cams Magnum Roller Rockers in the factory 1:52 ratio and (8) of the same rockers in 1:6 ratio which I ran on exhaust side for added lift. I am thinking they added .030 to the lift or maybe it was .015. These ARE great rockers and served me well very, very durable and they are expensive. You can have both ratios for $150 plus shipping. I also have a set of hi performance Melling pushrods-5/16 hardened and Melling Hydraulic roller lifters.
I will make you a great deal on all of it....PayPal and company discounted UPS shipping, let me know.
87OLdSchool

redneckjoe

the only rocker i've ever had fail was a steel roller tip, about 18 years ago. i blame it on myself. i missed a shift and over-revved the engine. a pushrod split the rocker in half!


been running cheap proform aluminum self aligners for about 6-7 years with no problems. i spin the motor to 7,200 rpm. and i've driven it from florida to new jersey.

ive used comp and summit alum rockers with no problems. maybe i'm lucky, but i dont see why people have so many problems? my experiences are all with no power adders.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Factory stuff is expected to last 200k miles. They engineer it with enough margin that they can go 400k miles. The aftermarket companies dont have to worry about warranties. They dont have to worry about rebuilding an engine when their parts crumble to pieces and get pumped through bearings.

The aftermarket stuff is likely fine, but they never put the same kind of R&D into it that the OEM's do, and how can they? They dont have NEARLY the resources the OEM's have. Im not the biggest believer in Comp in general, but all their stuff has worked fine on my car, and I think they are more likely to have put the R&D and durability testing into their rockers than the chinese companies. Doesn't mean the chinese rockers will break or spew needles(from the bearings) all over the place... but it just means it's a bit more like playing roulette.

In regards to not running full rollers on the street... I think it just depends on the quality of the trunion and the size of it. The Gen III+ engines use factory roller rockers, and from what i understand the LS1 guys have issues with their rockers failing and putting the needles through the engine, but the fact that there is a small subset having this issue while it continues to be original equipment is a good indication that the technology to make them reliable is there. I think I read that Comp Cams had a hand in designing those rockers in the Gen III+ engines... and theres an upgrade kit for them that makes them stronger I think. So I think if you stick with a high end full roller (not blatantly chinese at least) you should be in good shape. Even if it's aluminum you will PROBABLY not have any issues... but like you, I just said screw it I dont feel like worrying about it. Plus I figure aluminum will fatigue much faster with higher valve spring rates. I dont think the steel rockers will ever fatigue regardless of how tough your valve springs are. The trunions will need rebuilding eventually, but quality parts should hold up either way.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Good ol's stamped steel has held up in MILLIONS or engines built over the last 100 years, many of them going hundreds of thousands of miles.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

stock parts are not made for anything much more then stock...light springs..low lift..low rpm...Humdrum driving

go with comp cams.. i beat on a set for over 8 years.30.000+ miles with out any probs.(with a mech roller cam and weekend blast to 6800rpms..) when i sold them.they could pass for new...

the new set is the ultra pro mag (trick cuts in them) and for larger die springs...$400 Frog skins. even had to go taller mech roller lifters. (after market block) another stack of cash....ya get what ya pay for..most of the time..

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

^ the op has a pretty mild set up, IMO, stamped rockers would be fine.

Dakota W.

And you'll blow headgaskets long before you destroy rockers, I drove my car full throttle everywhere and the head gaskets went first. In fact, I've never seen factory rockers have a major failure, even without proper lubrication.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Comp Cams pro mags on my car. 150k miles and they still look new.

The Project

iTrader: (6)

Running the same on my car along with Comp CM rods, Comp beehive springs and posi seals.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Even with high miles, I put them on my new motor.

Lonnie P

When GM made the LT4 Vette in 96 they used aluminum full roller rockers made by Crane... just anodized blue.

Why are so many above saying to avoid full rollers, but roller tips are OK... when the new LS engines use a roller pivot & not on the valve tip? This is the exact opposite.

Buy good quality brand name stuff & you should not have to worry.
I've use both the Crane & Comp full rollers without any problems on many builds over the years.

If you are really running an aggressive enough cam to hurt a good roller rocker while street driving, it will likely kill a set of valve springs way before you wear out a set of rockers.

sidwyz

The project, that is the setup I have chosen to run with. I feel like the dual springs will be overkill even after my head work. And I understand I'm running a basic setup for now. But I hate having almost new parts sitting on a shelf because I I made poor part match choices....and I get that stamped steel will run for ever...except I my cam is made for 1.6 rockers not 1.5 like the stamped units I have so why not replace them with a good set that I can keep through out the life/growth of my vehicle. Before I stop wrenching on this car I want to be over 400 HP and average 275-300 HP...its not a radical goal but I'm gonna need quality parts if I'm still going g to drive it often and expect minimal down time.....thank you all for your input. I hope this helps others to make the right choices the 1st time around

Dakota W.

Changing rocker arms is probably the easiest thing to do, when you're talking about changing things out to make/work with more power. It's not like main bearings where you have to tear everything apart to change them. In fact, you could probably change all 16 rockers and have them adjusted in 30 minutes.

sidwyz

For sure, no arguments there, I'm talking more on the financial side of things. I didn't have enough cash to buy the best rockers for my setup when I was buying gauges, interior parts, trans, ect. when I put the car together. While I had the engine out, I figured that was the best time to switch the cam, I felt it was wasteful to buy 100.00 rockers just to have the correct ratio for my setup and risk all of the possible failures that come along with cheap rockers. For peace of mind I just threw the factories back in, less power for the time being yes...but even if the knock offs didn't fail, I would be in your situation, of changing out parts I already bought for better quality. My goal with this thread was to make the beat decision the 1st time around. I don't need any more parts with 1500 miles on them so I have to sell them for half what I paid....see where I'm coming from?

sidwyz

A few other brands I've come a cross are Harland sharp...tho I read someone contacted a rep and they did not recommend their rockers for daily driving? But this is a company that SOLELY makes rockers...and seems to only use aluminum?? But they use extruded aluminum as opposed to die cast, which seems to be a stronger process.

Also Crower makes a stainless steel set that has special oil ports through the rocker its self to lube the springs quicker on cold starts, thus extending the life of the springs. Not sure if I buy that honestly but its something to think about. The overall design of the rocker seems like a copy of the comp pro mags...and for 510.00 for a set of 16 I was hoping for an updated design, maybe something like the ultra pro mags. But Crower does seem to have longevity attached to its name when it come to racing circles.

Lastly I've been interested in elgin industries. They also offer stainless steel units but I can't find a price on them anywhere because they are all out of stock. They make special note of being "complete" stainless from the needles in the trunnions to the roller tip. which makes me wonder if that is the reason the rollers eventually need rebuilt. Because the needles rust over time. This definitely peaked my interest, and the overall design again seems to reflect comp pro mags...so there has to be a reason why everyone seems to be copying their dimensions. My only issue with comp is I've read their products are assembled over seas...now I'm sure they are still held to decent specs but our country has enough issues with not having enough money, why send it somewhere where its not gonna eventually get spent here...no I don't sleep in an american flag but when I need to hire someone for a job I consider people I have done work for first...kinda keeping money in the family.

And information on this would definitely be helpful. I do like the technology behind the ultra pro's but I dont want to jump on the bandwagon without considering all the options