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using Moroso solid mounts. this was a mock up/test fit of the parts. the front end is getting cleaned up and painted under the car and inside the eng bay. body color.. only takes about 30 min to bolt this stuff in. but the clean up and prep. is whats going to take the time.
there is nothing left to buy at this point..unless something new pops up.(comes out)
what a complete set of aftermarket parts for a 3rd gen looks like. (in boxes)
going on the vacation/honymoon nexed week..
getting as much done as i can. this week. alot of boxes to open and layout.for this build...
but a Complete front end upgrade is step 2.
the back was step 1.
Last edited by articwhiteZ; 08-19-2014 at 01:51 PM.
I do have one of those contraptions for FWD cars, but It is kind of designed for an engine bay that has 4 flat locations to hold it in place. I think I used it once years ago on a thirdgen and it slipped.
I'm kid of stuck in a rut with my car. I've not really looked at it in a few months. I need some motivation. I hate sinking more money into it, but it's still 'not right'..
-- Joe
Ghettocruiser has a good pic of the bar on his car while swapping K-members. It works. I used one to install my tubular K-member as well. Leave the trans crossmember attached and the bar has nowhere to slip to
using Moroso solid mounts. this was a mock up/test fit of the parts.
Great. Keep us posted.
Also keep in mind solid mounts are a job to install, tight tolerances take come patience. Leave all the bolts loose until you get the motor mount bolts in. It will take two people, one person rocking the pushing the motor while another tries to get the bolts in.
I never could get my solids in. Went back to stock clams and poly bushing and fit fine. I dont see a point in solid mounts. I make over 1000 hp and dont seem to have any issues
I never could get my solids in. Went back to stock clams and poly bushing and fit fine. I dont see a point in solid mounts. I make over 1000 hp and dont seem to have any issues
but have you ever stood the car up pulling the wheels 2'out of the hole.
I have.. with the stock from end and mounts... the eng moves a bit..more then i want it to. just did not want to go to a front eng plate. not yet anyway.
now this new set up with more Cid. and boost.. want things to stay inplace. and not move..
Last edited by articwhiteZ; 09-02-2014 at 04:45 PM.
just received my Moly race craft K-memeber, stupid light and looks very strong. TIG welds are very nice. Its going on a mainly street car but mostly for fun and going to car shows, alittle track time of course.
Nothing wrong with moly guys! Thinner tube is just as strong as thicker mild steel tube. Just costs more and requires a process of heat and TIG welding.
On a side note, I do have UMI tubular front A-Arms on my car now with the stock Kmember and they are very nice. Unfortunatly they don't have the bump stops as they were an earlier model.
Im thinking of going solid mounts but worried about vibrations in the car for street driving. Also that means I would have to swap my poly trans mount for a solid.
Cromoly is a bad choice for street because of the beating its expected to take over a long period. Any minor nick or ding creates a weak point. Not a big deal to a racecar that sees a fraction of the mileage of a street car without any common road hazards and is inspected frequently
Solid mounts should be used with a soft trans mount to keep from breaking the trans case. Something's gotta give when the car flexes. How harsh the ride will be depends on your engine. SBCs often rattle your teeth while LSx feel the same as stiff polys
I need a k member so many choices. Im stuck between aje and spohn, I think i will go spohn.
Hello, Just curious if you have looked into the UMI k-member and what your thoughts are on it? We have a lot of good reviews on it and happy customers.
but have you ever stood the car up pulling the wheels 2'out of the hole.
I have.. with the stock from end and mounts... the eng moves a bit..more then i want it to. just did not want to go to a front eng plate. not yet anyway.
now this new set up with more Cid. and boost.. want things to stay inplace. and not move..
I have had a wheel up but no several feet drops yet nor do i intend to. And perhaps the motor moves around some but i honestly havent noticed much. I'm not there to see it but did see on the dyno, the car torques up, not the motor. Poly bushing in trans as well and everything seems very tight.
Like said, i have alot of power goin thru the system and doesnt seem to be having any issues. With the turbo setup and piping, clearancs are tight so any real movement would be noticeable with piping flexing and banging on things which i have not seen or heard.
Ppl have fitment issues when lowering, I'm not. I forgot why I ruled out UMI and BMR kms. I'm building a drag car that will see street miles. UMI cost and I don't like the A arm they offer. I need a basic K that leaves room for 1 7/8 headers. Never heard anyone breaking a spohn K using it properly. UMI I would get if I found a good used one or a 20% off sale. Spohn has a good deal package with A arm and coil over kit, UMI don't
I never could get my solids in. Went back to stock clams and poly bushing and fit fine. I dont see a point in solid mounts. I make over 1000 hp and dont seem to have any issues
I just put a pair of Moroso solid mounts on my umi cross member but haven't put the engine in yet. Hoping it goes in without any troubles....
I just put a pair of Moroso solid mounts on my umi cross member but haven't put the engine in yet. Hoping it goes in without any troubles....
Solid mounts are definitely a real challenge to install at times so be prepared and have some patience. Leave all bolts loose until every bolt has a nut started on it. It takes some elbow grease and a few beer breaks.
Solid mounts are definitely a real challenge to install at times so be prepared and have some patience. Leave all bolts loose until every bolt has a nut started on it. It takes some elbow grease and a few beer breaks.
Good luck!
Spent 2 days on mine. Enlarged mounting holes. Still nowhere close. Gave up and went stock mounts with poly bushing. Had them in in 5 min
Solid mounts are definitely a real challenge to install at times so be prepared and have some patience. Leave all bolts loose until every bolt has a nut started on it. It takes some elbow grease and a few beer breaks.
Good luck!
Another trick is to use longer bolts for the mount to K-member. With the mount REALLY floppy, just about any misalignment can be pulled strait when the bolts are torqued
I also got a pair of SBC solid motor mounts and the frame pads don't fit my moly Kmember. The bottom holes don't line up…. Seems like 1 is about 1/2" off or so.
i might just drill another hole in the frame pad and bolt it in.
From my measurements it would appear to be a solid motor mount issue. Motor fit fine with stock mounts with poly bushing on both stock kmember and umi kmember
I never ordered the chromoly PA racing k member for the factory coils so my opinion may not count. I have used it with coil overs since day one. My car has fallen out of the sky several times and the k-member is still functioning well along with the LCA's. I bought mine for lightweight, not for handling purposes.
Solid mounts are definitely a real challenge to install at times so be prepared and have some patience. Leave all bolts loose until every bolt has a nut started on it. It takes some elbow grease and a few beer breaks.
Good luck!
Agreed with everything you just said! It was a BEAR by myself, took me an hour. A few notes I thought I would pass along: It is much easier if you do not install solid motor mounts like regular rubber/poly mounts. When the engine is on the hoist in the air Install the motor side mount with the three bolts loose. Bolt the K-member side mount to the block's mount with the through bolt. Slowly lower the engine towards the mounting pad and use two long bolts per side or two screw drivers per side to get the other two bolts on both sides in. Then pull one of the long bolts/screw drivers at a time until you have all bolts in place. Put on the nuts but do not tighten. Next install the transmission mount and tighten. Now go back and torque the motor mount bolts.
I'm having a very similar experience with the UMI k-member and their LSx adapters and solid motor mounts.
Looks like I'm going to have to enlarge some holes.
Anyone use their setup for an LSx swap and have any experience?
That is extremely tight set up. Remember with the solid mounts there is no longer give that rubber allows. Make sure 2323 solid mounts aren't upside down is first. Leave all bolts loose until every bolt is installed, one tightened bolt will make it impossible to get the other bolts in. It will take patience and muscle to maneuver it all in place.
That is extremely tight set up. Remember with the solid mounts there is no longer give that rubber allows. Make sure 2323 solid mounts aren't upside down is first. Leave all bolts loose until every bolt is installed, one tightened bolt will make it impossible to get the other bolts in. It will take patience and muscle to maneuver it all in place.
When did you get the k-member and mounts?
It's too tight. The "TOP" engraving on the mounts is pointing up towards the heads.
I bought the K-member in Dec 2013.
The solid mounts a week ago.
All the bolts are loose right now and we tried muscling into place with prybars, screwdrivers, not going to line up.
So, after seeing people with similar experiences sounds like the holes need to be enlarged.
Just want to update my K-member experience.
I e-mailed Ramey a few times last week and he helped me a ton to get this solved.
He sent me some new LS adapter mounts with slots.
Worked perfectly, everything was very easy to line up and get the bolts started.
Here's a picture of each side. Note: The bolts are loose.
I'm very impressed with UMI's customer service and willingness to help.
I got this problem solved in a week.
I recently installed (welded) UMI subframe connectors on my '86 IROC with very minimal issues and am looking to install their k member for future long tube header clearance issues/easier maintenance on a 383 build which isn't complete yet. Stage 1 plan is to install their RR k member while keeping the original 305 TPI setup...
Nice to see it can be installed by only 1 person in about 1 hour!
It seems that we were talking about the UMI "road race" unit, which I have not seen in 4130 -- have you? My question pertains only to that particular model by that manufacturer but perhaps I was not clear enough.
I am not aware of anything about 4130 which prohibits its use in street cars if that is your implication -- it just makes for a lighter car (on many parts, relative to mild steel) at a somewhat greater expense, partly because it requires TIG welding so can't be slopped together with MIG like a lot of other parts are. Would you like to report on some weakness of this material which you regard as prohibitive for street cars?
Were the UMI road race unit to be offered in 4130, its development would justify a certain amount of re-engineering. There are rules of thumb for the substitution of 4130 for mild steel, but particularly due to the existence of welded joints, it's really a better practice to re-develop an item especially for the material.
You seem either offended by your misconception of what I meant, or mocking. I'm not interested in interacting with either of those emotional poses, but I hope that this response has cleared any misconception for you.
Originally Posted by customblackbird
just received my Moly race craft K-memeber, stupid light and looks very strong. TIG welds are very nice. Its going on a mainly street car but mostly for fun and going to car shows, alittle track time of course.
Nothing wrong with moly guys! Thinner tube is just as strong as thicker mild steel tube. Just costs more and requires a process of heat and TIG welding.
On a side note, I do have UMI tubular front A-Arms on my car now with the stock Kmember and they are very nice. Unfortunatly they don't have the bump stops as they were an earlier model.
Im thinking of going solid mounts but worried about vibrations in the car for street driving. Also that means I would have to swap my poly trans mount for a solid.
Originally Posted by Pocket
Cromoly is a bad choice for street because of the beating its expected to take over a long period. Any minor nick or ding creates a weak point. Not a big deal to a racecar that sees a fraction of the mileage of a street car without any common road hazards and is inspected frequently
I know that this is an old thread, but you guys hit on a sore subject here...
Chrome moly/4130 is NOT lighter than mild steel/carbon steel
When in "normalized' state (as the tube is usually shipped) it has a strength range _slightly_ higher than mild steel, but not enough to make a difference. You can easily grab a tube of each and end up with a mild steel tube that is stronger, and you wouldn't be able to tell either way.
When welded using normal procedures and materials, no one welds it with chrome molly wire- ER70Sx (70Ksi mild steel filler) or some will use some form of stainless (typically 308L or 309L) with a TIG to get prettier, not structurally better, welds. The weld and the HAZ (Heat Affected Zone) ends up getting self-quenched by the surrounding metal, resulting in hard, brittle spots on either side fo the welds. Without the whole structure being heat treated afterwards (not just waving a torch over it), you end up with the main tubes being normalized, not any stronger than before, the welds being 70KSI (about the same as the tensile strength of the mild steel filler, similar to the normalized sections), both of which have some give in an impact or under load, and the HAZ around the welds end up super hard and brittle and prone to cracking and breaking. NASCAR and other sanctioning bodies don't allow the use of chrome-moly tube anywhere near the driver for fear that in an accident it shatters with sharp points and becomes a spear to impale the driver.
I've never heard of it being done in the typical aftermarket (IE, nothing discussed in this thread), but if the final part was then sent out for heat treat then you could end up with a stronger part
So short version, going with chrome moly you at best have a part that is more prone to breakage, if it's lighter (made of thinner steel) then you have a MUCH weaker part that is more prone to breakage. On impact, the part will typically shatter in the HAZ around the welds, where a mild steel part will bend quite a bit first. Any flexing will result in the same.
For the most part, 4130 tubular parts (and cages) because of ignorance of the facts, badly written rules (for example in drag racing faster cars can use thinner, lighter 4130 cages, I believe originally the rules were written that way because the writers were mistaken about the strength and that it was a way to guarantee DOM as opposed to ERW (which when cleaned up can be hard to tell from non structural pipe)
Im thinking of going solid mounts but worried about vibrations in the car for street driving. Also that means I would have to swap my poly trans mount for a solid.
Originally Posted by Pocket
Solid mounts should be used with a soft trans mount to keep from breaking the trans case. Something's gotta give when the car flexes. How harsh the ride will be depends on your engine. SBCs often rattle your teeth while LSx feel the same as stiff polys
Anyone run solid mounts with a small block, especially on the street? I've run them on a ford small block and on LS's and you really couldn't tell over regular mounts.
Originally Posted by UltRoadWarrior9
What a great thread!
I recently installed (welded) UMI subframe connectors on my '86 IROC with very minimal issues and am looking to install their k member for future long tube header clearance issues/easier maintenance on a 383 build which isn't complete yet. Stage 1 plan is to install their RR k member while keeping the original 305 TPI setup...
Nice to see it can be installed by only 1 person in about 1 hour!
So, did you get it installed in an hour by yourself?
Anyone run solid mounts with a small block, especially on the street? I've run them on a ford small block and on LS's and you really couldn't tell over regular mounts.
Yeah, I made my own solid mounts similar to the ones that Spohn sells. I only notice the added vibration if the engine stumbles at idle, otherwise no. I think these that I made are easier to install than the typical two piece motor mount, solid or not.
a lot of work..nice welds..Im keeping my fingers crossed. all my parts fit..at this point Im also thinking of picking up a plastic eng. for mock up..(BBC)
a lot of work..nice welds..Im keeping my fingers crossed. all my parts fit..at this point Im also thinking of picking up a plastic eng. for mock up..(BBC)
Thanks, I used TIG on those. 3/16" steel. For mock up I had to use the actual engine so I ended up using 3 jacks. Took distance and angle measurements and spot welded with the MIG and then pulled them out and TIG'd them. I made these after seeing and liking the Spohn pieces (why does a solid mount need to be two pieces?) but I saw the price ($160!) and thought "I can make those with $5 worth of metal!"
I know that this is an old thread, but you guys hit on a sore subject here...
Chrome moly/4130 is NOT lighter than mild steel/carbon steel
When in "normalized' state (as the tube is usually shipped) it has a strength range _slightly_ higher than mild steel, but not enough to make a difference. You can easily grab a tube of each and end up with a mild steel tube that is stronger, and you wouldn't be able to tell either way.
When welded using normal procedures and materials, no one welds it with chrome molly wire- ER70Sx (70Ksi mild steel filler) or some will use some form of stainless (typically 308L or 309L) with a TIG to get prettier, not structurally better, welds. The weld and the HAZ (Heat Affected Zone) ends up getting self-quenched by the surrounding metal, resulting in hard, brittle spots on either side fo the welds. Without the whole structure being heat treated afterwards (not just waving a torch over it), you end up with the main tubes being normalized, not any stronger than before, the welds being 70KSI (about the same as the tensile strength of the mild steel filler, similar to the normalized sections), both of which have some give in an impact or under load, and the HAZ around the welds end up super hard and brittle and prone to cracking and breaking. NASCAR and other sanctioning bodies don't allow the use of chrome-moly tube anywhere near the driver for fear that in an accident it shatters with sharp points and becomes a spear to impale the driver.
I've never heard of it being done in the typical aftermarket (IE, nothing discussed in this thread), but if the final part was then sent out for heat treat then you could end up with a stronger part
So short version, going with chrome moly you at best have a part that is more prone to breakage, if it's lighter (made of thinner steel) then you have a MUCH weaker part that is more prone to breakage. On impact, the part will typically shatter in the HAZ around the welds, where a mild steel part will bend quite a bit first. Any flexing will result in the same.
For the most part, 4130 tubular parts (and cages) because of ignorance of the facts, badly written rules (for example in drag racing faster cars can use thinner, lighter 4130 cages, I believe originally the rules were written that way because the writers were mistaken about the strength and that it was a way to guarantee DOM as opposed to ERW (which when cleaned up can be hard to tell from non structural pipe)
Can you cite your sources for this information? I ask because the SFI foundation, which is made up of a lot of engineers, feel otherwise about the strength difference between the same wall thickness 4130 vs mild steel but more importantly the rigidity of the entire structure is stronger vs mild steel.
My LS swapped 91 RS has a chrome moly UMI K-member & matching A-arms. It's been flawless for three and a half years and 10,000 miles. The car handles fantastic. Highly recommended.
If you want a Sphon chrome moly LS swap K-member for a 3rd Gen contact me and I will make you an excellent deal on mine. I bought the Sphon and decided the UMI was better in every regard. The Sphon is still new in box.
My LS swapped 91 RS has a chrome moly UMI K-member & matching A-arms. It's been flawless for three and a half years and 10,000 miles. The car handles fantastic. Highly recommended.
If you want a Sphon chrome moly LS swap K-member for a 3rd Gen contact me and I will make you an excellent deal on mine. I bought the Sphon and decided the UMI was better in every regard. The Sphon is still new in box.
I bought all UMI gear. K-member, A-arms, sway bars, etc. Did you have any issues with the engine being too far back toward the firewall or too far forward? I will be installing a LS7 into my 85 and have heard of this issue. Just wondering.
The 383 LS1 went in without any issues. The LSXRT intake was a tight fit at the back but Hawk's Motorsports was able to make it work. I'm not familiar first hand with the LS7 but I imagine if that fat LSXRT fit the LS7 won't have any serious issues.
Last edited by Arctic White 91 RS; 03-03-2019 at 06:37 PM.
the last year has been a crazy..last min ditched the small block and switched to a all aluminum 615cid BBC.
Dan Lemon Headers..doing a test fit to make sure they fit the UMI K member.. as Lemon headers have not been tested for the fit..talked with UMI last fall. about doing a K member (I would pay for it) and have it sent to Lemon. to make sure the fit..as the headers ran over $2000 for my car. had a lot going on..UMI Had no problem making me a set just for the Jig..But running OUT OF TIME. I. told my self they should fit.. they fit a few others (K Members) on the market ..so just go ahead and make them and send them out..fingers crossed..
just looking at the other parts test fit..they should fit ..and so should the UMI K member..
using a BMR cross member..(round tube!) looks better to me..have had others to test fit..just I like the look of the round tube.
on a side note..also like the fact that UMI sets up the K member to use the Frame Brackets.
GM puts them on..ya might want to Keep them...
Last edited by articwhiteZ; 03-10-2019 at 04:06 AM.
negative. I got the moly stock suspension version. Got it new from a member out in Canada I think I paid 400-450 when they were going for like $750 at the time. I run UMI tubular LCAs and weight jacks with stock spindles and BAER black label 13” front brakes. Moly kmember still going strong and I must of put like 2-3k miles on it this summer.
standard SBC solid mounts. Which I now run on LS adapter plates for my turbo 5.3. With standard SBC solid mounts the holes on the bottom (1 rear bottom towards firewall) does not line up so I drilled a hole through the motor mount base and added the 4the hole. They have 3rd gen specific solid motor mounts made my Moroso but I wasn’t going to spend the $50 or whatever they cost for the bottoms and then you have the stops which are specific to the 3rd gen bottoms. I run the $25 for both bottom and top eBay style specials and they work great.
08-19-2014, 01:24 PM
want things to stay inplace. and not move.. 
as they were an earlier model. 
