IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Well after being burned a second time on a optima redtop I have to post this. Background is it seem johnson controls owns them and the consensus is the quality has tanked big time for quite some time. My first one I bought in 09 came out a year later and stayed always on a float charge. It died and couldn't be brought back. Fastforward to two years ago I buy another and it sat up until 4 weeks ago always on a charger since I purchased it. I was in a pinch and decided to use it to jump start my house generator battery to get it started with an impending storm comming. It failed miserably. Load tested it and now this one is weak. Optima says tough luck its out of warrenty. Buyer beware. These batterys are not made in the usa anymore and quality is crap in my opinion. Ive had bargain batterys last longer than these expensive paperweights. Ill never buy another Optima again.

-srs-

I've had bad luck too. I used to run them all the time in my car audio comp days. Nowadays, forget it.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

I bought one on March 9th and had to return it 6 days later. It wouldnt hold a charge. Second one seems to be holding but this isnt the first time an Optima Red Top has failed me.

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

I've been running a Red Top since I got the car last year. No problems so far.

88TPI406GTA

I have had a long history of using red top Optimas...including one that lasted a long time (1998-2012, between vehicles and some shelf time). I have had really good success with them. I have had a few eventually go bad...but with better success than lead acid batteries. These days, they are not the only AGM game in town...I like AGM batteries.

Most people that I know that have experienced problems with them let them get too discharged, then standard battery chargers don't work at that point.

Here is an excerpt from the Optima FAQ:

If an OPTIMA battery is deeply discharged (below 10.5 volts), most basic chargers will not supply a charge. Also keep in mind that an OPTIMA battery will not recharge properly if treated as a regular flooded or gel battery. To charge the battery, you can wire a second fully charged automotive battery (12+volts) to the discharged AGM in parallel (+ to + and – to –). Then hook up the charger to the deeply discharged battery, setting the charger at 10 parallel_charging_illustration_edit.gifamps. Leave for two hours, monitoring frequently. During this process, if the discharged battery gets very hot or if it is venting (hissing sound from vents), then stop this process immediately. When the discharged battery reaches 10.5 volts or more, remove the standard battery and continue charging the AGM until fully charged.

For normal charging, a relatively low current, such as one or two amps, can work well, but when the battery has been deeply discharged, some sulfation of the battery plates may have occurred. If you charge at 10 amps, the higher current will help to break up this sulfation.

If you have an automatic charger, let it run until the charger indicates charging is complete. If you have a manual charger, you can get a rough estimate of the charging time in hours of a completely discharged battery (11.2 volts) by multiplying the capacity (amp hours or Ah) of the battery by 1.2. If your battery is not completely discharged, the time would be less.

In most cases these steps will recover an AGM battery. It’s OK for the AGM battery to get slightly warm during the charging process. If it’s hot to the touch, it means there’s a short and the process should be discontinued."

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Is the consensus that the quality on these batteries is **** now? I called the local interstate battery center. They told me to bring it in to see what they can do. They test them and refurbish batteries. Ive always had a auto 1.5 amp charger on this from day one. Quality is **** nowadays. Hit or miss.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Don't know what year it was, but Optima was bought out and the formula changed...
My Original Yellow Top battery lasted 10 years....

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

I have had battery shops tell me the red top was dead..nothing they could do..lol... I take them home . put them nexed to a battery that's on the charger.. place the jumper cables on the 2 batterys.turn charger on.. and the red tops charge right up..i have 2 of them right now...

88TPI406GTA

Thanks articwhiteZ...which is why I posted the tech info from the Optima website...maybe it was too much text for others to read through

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

I had a red top I bought through Jegs in November 2013 and it was great up until September 2015. I am absolutely fanatical about disconnecting it evey time I park it when I know I will be gone for more than 10 or 15 mins. I do it as a theft deterrent and for piece of mind.

In september one day I just came out to the garage, hooked up the battery and the car wouldn't kick the starter because it was dead, i charged the optima and car started up. throughout the next two months this became more and more frequent. even after long 20-30 min drives into work, where I would park the car, disconnect the battery (both terminals) and then come out 12 hours later, hook up the battery and it was so low it wouldn't start. Luckily I was still within my 3 year optima warranty, so I returned it to Jegs and got a new one for free (minus the return shipping cost).

I am going to see how long this one goes and if it starts acting up again,...i'll have to search for other options. I've done draw testing on the car by running the amp meter in-series with the negative terminal-and-wire and gotten only a 9ma Miliamp draw. from what I've read, anything below 50 miliamps is just fine. regardless, I habitually disconnect at least the negative lead to the battery constantly. Maybe I can speak to the tech guys at Optima when I go down and to the Optima Ultimate Street Car event in May

yevgenievich

iTrader: (4)

I had a very old one that was going weak, but with all the talk about them having issues replaced with northstar made battery. Sold by battery plus under x power brand. 880CCA for my suburban and been great so far. It also comes with 5 year full replacement warranty.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

I know what your saying.. to this day. I do not even take the shrink wrap off of the batteries..but keep it simple

mmadden55

I got a exide battery from Tractor supply, dual terminal, no problems.

MY87LT

iTrader: (2)

Has anyone complained to the manufacturer to find out what's their deal with the decline of their products?

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

My battery sitting voltage is around 12.5. Under load its in the weak area on thw load tester. Has sulfation occurred?

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

I had a contact with Optima through another forum. I dropped him a note to let him know about this thread. Hopefully he or another rep will stop by.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

That jump to another battery and charge trick worked for me too (a long time ago)...

As for Optima... Bought out by another company... let's see how we can save / cut corners, more profit for CEO's to take home.... typical corporation / capitalist problems... I've seen nothing but complaints about them for the last 8+ years, when before, they were the go to company...

OptimaJim

Dave, thanks for the heads-up. IROCZ1989, I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've been having. I do need some help understanding your timeline. If I read your post correctly, you bought one of our RedTops in 2009, it lasted for five years and you purchased another two years ago. Do you recall who at Optima told you the RedTop was out of warranty? All of our consumer RedTops come with a three-year, free replacement warranty, so if your two-year old RedTop failed a load test, it should still be covered under warranty.

Is this just a RedTop that you keep on a shelf, connected to a charger? What kind of charger are you using? Can you tell me what the 10-digit serial number is on the white, 1"x3" "Non-Spillable" label on the side?

What 88TPI406GTA mentioned about deeply-discharged products doesn't just apply to Optimas, but all lead-acid or AGM products, as it is a function (or lack thereof) of many chargers on the market.

luvofjah, as was previously-mentioned, Johnson Controls does own the Optima brand and has since 2000. There have been a lot of advances in technology over the last 16 years and when that has allowed us to improve the quality of our products, we've definitely taken advantage of it. Does that mean every one of the millions we've produced over they years has worked flawlessly? Absolutely not, but we do strive for 100% perfection.

While we do our best to train our retail partners on how to properly-charge and load-test products, as articwhiteZ has indicated, there is always more work to be done there as well. We do have a video on our YouTube Channel that does explain the charging procedure these guys have been using and it can work on any battery that has been deeply-discharged-
IROCZman15, I will be at the New Jersey Search for the Ultimate Street Car event, so be sure to track me down and we'll take a look at your car and your current Optima.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA
www.instagram.com/optimabatteries

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

My Yellow Top Optima that lasted 10 years was on a Battery Tender for it's entire life... When it came time to replace, I did research and saw way more complaints than I expected... You mentioned technology changing, I understand, but from what I read, it seemed that cheaper parts were used to create the battery and many more problems arose than before, i.e., not lasting very long.... How true that is, well, it's just what I read and you work for the company... Sadly, the info and bad reviews scared me enough to go with another company...

What is the warranty on your current batteries (Yellow top)? My Napa replacement didn't last but a few years too... but it wasn't the price of an Optima either...

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Already been down that road. The battery is not deeply discharged. It shows 12. whatever before its load tested. It drops right into the weak area on the load tester. It came off the shelf and was immediatly put on a shumacher charger until now. Funny my interstate I have in my mustang never gave me issues and its been going on 6 years now for that one. Group 58. Only reason I didnt ever get an aftermarket battery for that one is no one makes a group 58. Maybe thats a good thing.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Sorry I didnt clarify the timeline. First battery was bought in 09. Year later I took it out. In 2012 I had to buy a new one because that one lost its charge after being on a 1.5 float shcumacher charger that is agm compatible. The 2nd battery I bought was checked when I got home and had the correct voltage. I bought another schumacher charger that can charger agm and put it on there. Fast forward to when I tried to use it to jump my house generator. The original battery died in that and I needed to jump start it in a pinch. Now that lead acid was originally from 04 and just died this past xouple of months

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Sorry I didnt clarify the timeline. First battery was bought in 09. Year later I took it out. In 2012 I had to buy a new one because that one lost its charge after being on a 1.5 float shcumacher charger that is agm compatible. The 2nd battery I bought was checked when I got home and had the correct voltage. I bought another schumacher charger that can charger agm and put it on there. Fast forward to when I tried to use it to jump my house generator. The original battery died in that and I needed to jump start it in a pinch. Now that lead acid was originally from 04 and just died this past couple of months. Cheap battery. It didnt jump it to say the least and with 12+inches on the way I really didnt want the power to go down as I live way out there. And the repair man couldnt go out on such short notice. So I tested the battery and volts were good. Bought a load tester and it tested weak although the volts are fine. Even if the battery is low on volts it should at least turn the generator over. Its not a big high compression V8. Its a small engine. Original battery was only like 500cca. So yes the battery is out of warrenty and no the battery is not deeply discharged. It shows good volts on load tester and goes weak under a load. Never fired an engine and never put in a car. Im going to bring it to the interstate battery center I deal with as they can charge it and desulfate it for free. If it turns out another bad one,sorry this is the last one I will be buying. Thats just alot of money to throw away and take my chances a third time. Its not like these were abused or run down. They sat on a charger. Thats it.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

I will get you the number off the tag.


Just to clarify what really got under my skin was the fact I couldnt get the house generator started with it. When It didnt turn it over I never thought it was the optima battery. I thought it was something electrical or mechanical. If it had been , say the optima started it,I would have swapped it in for the meantime until I could get the right size replacement. I had to call the repairman and it ended up being the battery. Thats what got me thinking. How the hell is this battery junk when its never been used or discharged? It showed 12+volts. I wouldnt question that. Thats why I bought a load tester. Now I know why it didnt start it.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

My Optima battery story ;

A friend bought a boat that he was planning to restore . He bought 4 new of the optima blue tops that are supposed to be good for both deep cycle and engine starting applications . Well , sometimes life happens and the boat project got scrapped . He gave me one of the bluetops .

With this new battery , and the new starter & starter wires I put in , the engine cranks over SO fast you'd swear there weren't any sparkplugs in it ! It starts so fast I don't think it needs to spin more than 1/4 of a second on each start . It's going on a year now and great results so far , so I guess the blue top in my case is the best battery for my car .

PS , the bluetop I got is the one they call "dual purpose" for both starting and deep cycle applications . It appears there is a blue top that is deep cycle only ? and I don't think that one would be good for engine starting ? So if you get a blue top I'd make sure it's the "dual purpose" ..

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Red tops are not deep cycle (like yllw tops) & shouldnt be allowed to discharge/recharge consistently.Also they will not hold a charge if not used regularly.I had this same issue with one.Switch to a yellow top & have not had any problems since.Occasionally need to recharge it, but it's 9 years old.

88TPI406GTA

I would think most/all of the concern with Optima batteries would also apply to ANY AGM battery. Too many of us are used to lead-acid batteries...and Optima had been the only AGM car/truck game in town for a long time. I would guess that is a double-edged sword for their brand.

That being said, I do believe the quality dipped when they were sold...but what hasn't? Don't even discuss brake rotor (metal) quality decline over the last 20 years...Chinesium sucks.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

OptimaJim: Thanks for your reply to the group and to me. I will be at the NJ event in May where you said you would be so maybe if things aren't too busy we can look over everything. However, as of now with the new replacement red top I have had zero issues (however the car has been sitting most of this wintertime)

Also, would you mind if I private messaged you about one or two things related to the event that I am looking for quick clarification on? Or could you point me to someone's email address who might be able to answer the questions? I tried using the "contact" feature on the Optima website a few times but have't gotten any emails back. Nothing major at all, just trying to clarify a few things so I can show up to the event fully prepared.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Lol. Do you mean your saying those one hard emergency stops you have that warp the rotors arnt the norm?Remember when you could turn rotors? Turn a set now and one hard stop they warp if they arnt already.Everything to save a few bucks. Consumer pays in the end. I wonder if optima is even made in the usa? Cheap lead acid(actually think it was a black interstate ) on my generator is timed to start 10 min everyweek to test the system. Did that for 12 years straight in all weather conditions + the rare occasional hour runs when power did go out. This one cant even stay alive sitting on a charger in a heated garage for 3 years.

OptimaJim

Hi luvofjah, I'm sorry to hear the advice you received from the Internet let you down when it came time to replace your 10-year old YellowTop. I am the online voice of Optima, so whenever you read comments from people who make claims about cheaper parts or compromises that negatively-impact quality, know that while they may be sharing their personal experiences, their speculation is not founded on anything beyond their personal opinion.

I used to read a lot more comments suggesting JCI bought Optima, slashed quality and tried to cash in on the brand equity to get huge profits. While other companies have been known to do that with other products, that is a short-term play that usually signals the end of a brand's life. Sixteen years of ownership, including the construction of a state-of-the-art production facility have pretty much eliminated the credibility of such false speculation. The quality of our products has always been excellent and is as good, if not better today, than it has ever been.

I understand some folks might be reluctant to believe someone who actually works for the company, but you don't need to take my word for it or even trust your own experience in recovering a deeply-discharged battery. I don't know where articwhiteZ works, but he doesn't work for us and he sees the same thing we do- many of the “dead” returns that come in for warranty service are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly-recharged.

88TPI406GTA is right about the issues folks run into with our products being fairly common among all AGM products. However, other brands won't always take the time to produce how-to videos, help people in forums or ask charger manufacturers to make a better product. They simply add an exclusion in their warranty for anything that has been discharged below a minimum voltage level (sometimes as high as 10.5 volts) and call it a day. We don't do that with our warranty, which is three years free replacement in consumer applications for both the RedTop & YellowTop, although we do add an additional year of coverage, if someone buys a Digital 1200 charger from us at the same time.

IROCZ1989, all of our batteries are manufactured in our own facility in Monterrey and they are the only ones produced there. We never re-brand or re-spec our products for any of our retail partners.

A battery measuring 12.0 volts is already close to 60% discharged and is far more likely to fail a load test, than a fully-charged battery that will measure at least 12.6 volts. If the market was flush with quality chargers & maintainers, we would've never asked some of the bigger manufacturers to improve the quality of their units. When those requests fell on deaf ears, we came out with our own, that can charge, recover and maintain both AGM and flooded lead-acid products that have been discharged to as low as 1.25 volts.

There are still a lot of chargers on the market that have “Gel/AGM” settings that don't properly charge non-gel products and can damage them over time, as the two technologies have very different needs in terms of charging parameters. I wonder sometimes if some charger manufacturers even believe there is a difference between gel and AGM products, and I'm still floored at the way some describe the differences between AGM and gel technology on their own websites. I wish I was allowed to post links to other brand sites. I can say if someone suggests the difference between gel and AGM products is in the size of the battery and not the chemistry inside, steer clear. A battery group size is what it is, regardless of the the technology inside or the name on the outside.

As with the issue with deeply-discharged batteries being excluded in some warranties, some manufacturers also void the warranty on their products, if they were not maintained with a charger on their “approved” list. We try not to confuse folks too much, because most chargers will work just fine on our products, but we always suggest people avoid “gel” charge settings, even if they also include “AGM” in that setting.

I do understand your frustration in dealing with your home generator. The house I bought had one that I couldn't get to work. When we brought out a technician and he tried to start it, the flooded battery blew the top off, spraying acid all over the place. I had to wrap what was left of the battery in a garbage bag and put it in a cardboard box just to get it to a recycler without spilling more acid.

OrangeBird, all of our BlueTop products are dual-purpose for starting and deep-cycle use, except for the 34M, which is the marine version of our RedTop product, which is designed & warrantied only for starting. The easy way to identify them is by the color of the case. All YellowTops and BlueTops have light-gray cases, except for the 34M, which shares a dark gray case with the RedTop.

IROCZman15, feel free to PM me, but if you have event-specific questions, you can e-mail jimi@driveusca.com

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Thanks for posting the replies Jim.

I don't take sides, and I don't expect everyone to change their minds. But I think everyone does deserve to hear from the manufacturer, and understand their side of things, and Jim has always answered the bell when I've asked for his participation in a web forum.

ThePain

I've read this as well on my Bronco Forum.

What a shame

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

When I rescued my GTA from someone's yard, I purchased an Optima Red Top battery for it. I always go for the best that I can afford.

That was late 2009. The battery performed well until a little over 4 years later. The car had been left sitting in cold weather for 2 weeks, and the battery was completely dead. It would neither take nor hold a charge.

I purchased an "Opti-Mate" battery charger on the recommendation of my brother. It's designed to revive sulfated batteries. Well, it brought the battery back to life, but six months later it was dead again, and totally useless. The Opti-Mate could not bring it back.

So essentially, I paid considerably more than I would have for a conventional battery, and in my estimation, got nothing for it. I normally get at least 5 years out of a replacement battery, so I replaced it with a standard battery for a lot less money.

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

I have yet to see anyone post where a battery failed under proper charging conditions. AGM batteries will push out the CCA, but you have to take care of them - no matter what manufacturer. I'll pass on the special charger, and just make sure I don't let it drop below 12v.

MY87LT

iTrader: (2)

Well after reading all this, I'm not going to go the Optima road. At the O'Reily's, they have their own top line battery with the 3 year warranty and the Optima Red has the same warranty with them. The differences don't seem to much for me to justify a $100+ cost over the store brand.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

88TPI406GTA

Is the O-Reilly's an AGM battery? Or just lead-acid?

MY87LT

iTrader: (2)

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...y+-+automotive

This is the battery.

88TPI406GTA

That link doesn't look like an AGM battery and doesn't say AGM on the label...although that battery series is supposed to be AGM (based on my internet search).

Can you confirm it actually is an AGM?

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Thank You for that response Jim .

My Blue top is the light grey case and is number D27M . I see on the website the starting only bluetop with the dark grey case, as well as the red top , has the cells in a straight line , front to back , opposite of mine where my cells are staggered when looking at it from front to back . Why is that ?

I will say that Jim seems an honest sort and I do know that every so often even brand new batteries , of any brand , fail early . I've had both cheap and expensive batteries last a very long time and I've had failures at every pricepoint batteries are sold .

As a remote control model airplane hobbyist I've had extensive experience with both Lithium ion and Lithium polymer batteries and the charge/discharge/storage protocols involving them are a science all to themselves . Just as a LIPO can be destroyed by charging with the wrong charging profile selected on the charger so too can any battery (like an AGM) be damaged by charging with any other than an actual dedicated for that chemistry charger . Hey , at least your AGMs just outright fail if things aren't right , Lithium Polymer have the ugly habit of violently catching fire if proper charge/discharge conditions aren't met !

Anyway , since I was given my bluetop for free from a friend , and I have no real financial skin in the game , what I will do is to continue to use the bluetop just as I would any other battery , and report my results with it here from time to time . My car has a brand new starter , alternator , all electrics are in perfect 100% not hacked in the least condition and the car starts great . Let's see how long this battery lasts !

PS my car lives 24/7 in a garage and is never left not run for longer than 3 weeks , the perfect conditions for battery longevity ....

MY87LT

iTrader: (2)

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...0369&ppt=C0327

Here is the link to their AGM battery. Mine is not AGM.

GCrites80s

About 6 years ago at the big R/C car race in town, a guy almost burnt down a Motel 6 when his LiPo battery caught fire while he was asleep.


For those who don't know, Jim used to write for GMHTP and previously had an NBA career as the Shaq Stopper. So he's not just some boring corporate figurehead hired out of Harvard.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

I had 3 optima redtops in 8 years

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

So what Im hearing is that the vendors have some blame as well? Letting batteries sit on shelfs for months doesnt help the consumer I guess. I just feel having to pay almost 200 for this battery then another 200 for the charger is a bit high. Optimajim Im sure sees everything to do with his company. I dont record stats but in my inner circle It feels like these batteries have definatly gone south. Ive had more friends go back to lead acid than not. I assume the vendors have some blame here? Besides the 200 optima charger can you recommend one other at least cheaper charger to use?

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

The $10 battery charger from Walmart does just fine. Just don't leave it on the tender for weeks at a time. Top it up, let it drop to 12.5-12.6, re-charge.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

I have the 20 shcumacher they sell at walmart. Optimajim has said they are no good that's why they developed their own. $200 is a bit steep. How bout a discount to thirdgen.org?

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

No offence to the Jim, but the $20 charger is just fine when used properly. I have AGM batteries 5-6 years old kickin just fine. Charge to full, let drop to 12.5/6, repeat.

The $200 charger is worth it when you just want to leave it connected for months on end and not think about it. The extra logic in their circuitry allows for that.

But yes, selling their charger for a more approachable price would be beneficial. Maybe 60% off charger when you buy a new battery?

OptimaJim

Hi OrangeBird, I apologize for the delay in responding, I was on Easter break with my family last week. The cells on the Group 34 are smaller and can fit side by side and still make it into the general Group 34 footprint. The Group 27 & 31 sizes have larger diameter cells and staggering them allows them to better fit the footprint for their group sizes.

IROCZ1989, the retailers are often serviced by distributors, who are supposed to make sure inventory is properly-maintained and rotated, if needed. It really depends on the location, as some places sell so many batteries, they rarely have a battery on any shelf for more than a few weeks, while other smaller, mom&pop shops might only sell one or two per year. When properly-maintained, our batteries can easily sit on a shelf, waiting to be used for a year or longer.

Most chargers will work just fine on our products, we just recommend avoiding “Gel” or “Gel/AGM” settings that often don't work on non-gel batteries. We also offer a maintainer that is less expensive than our charger. We do offer an extra year of warranty coverage when folks buy a battery and the charger from us at the same time, but there are not currently any promotions being offered. When we do offer promotions, they're typically announced on our Facebook page, with the most-recent one being a discount on BlueTops after our sponsored angler, Edwin Evers, won the Bassmaster Classic.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

weswisehart

Ive owned my yellow top for 6-7 years. Ive never had a single problem with it. My car sat for a year and i went out and it fired right off.
I really hope they are not made different now. Ive bragged to much about these batteries.

MY87LT

iTrader: (2)

Well we can all agree that batteries are not a forever part that will magically start our cars at the turn of the key. I think what we are trying to make clear is what is the true longevity of an Optima battery.

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

I've had a red top for over 10 years my car doesn't see alot of action and i always undo the ground terminal after awhile it would need a trickle charge to bring it up to crank over and then one day no one told me the charger timer was broken and i overcharged and smoked the battery so i'm on my new one after 10+ years