Arctic White 91 RS

My review of Hawk's Motorsports 8.8 Rear End for Camaro & Firebird is based on my experience with the one installed in my arctic white ttop RS with the 383 LS1/T56.

For reference:

http://www.hawksmotorsports.com/hawk...-end-assembly/

Arctic White 91 RS

We all know the stock 10 bolt rear has its limits. While the RS had almost 400,000 trouble free miles on the original 10 bolt, the old 2.73 peg leg was totally unsuited to the 383 LS1 & T56. I had a professionally built 4th gen 10 bolt with 3.73's and an Auburn posi with a MAC aluminum cover tucked away in the garage, I had planned to use. The more I thought about hard shifting & high rpm clutch dumps the less enticing another 10 bolt seemed.

One of my close, friends while clowning on the street blew his 4th Gen RamAir Formula's 10 bolt with 3.73s to pieces after a high rpm (6000+) clutch dump on Nitto's. Anyway my 4th Gen 10-bolt found a new home and proceeds helped fund the new 8.8 from Hawk's.

Bruce and I discussed how to best tailor the 8.8 to my driving preferences. In hard cornerning I think open differentials handle a little better. This is based on the experiences with my 72 vette and it's Eaton posi-traction unit. The Torsen T2 seemed ideal for the 8.8 and perfect for me. It would drive like my 4th gen TA's Torsen just like an open diff until slippage occurred and the gear set would engage. Picked 4.10s gears after discussing with Bruce, rear sway bar brackets, retain torque arm and so forth. The order was placed and in a few weeks the rear was ready for install. Hawk's did the installation while doing the LS swap.

Arctic White 91 RS

Hawk's 8.8 rear installed in white RS

Arctic White 91 RS

I've driven about 3,500 miles with the new rear and I'm delighted with it.

The 8.8 is quite! It seems so strange not hearing some gear whine going down the road.

The car handles better than ever. The slight weight gain of about 45 pounds to rear seems unnoticeable. I can shift hard, power shift, launch aggressively and not worry if the rear end is going to explode. I really wish I had an 8.8 in my 4th gen TA.

I'm very happy with the 8.8, it's been an excellent upgrade. I would buy one for my other 3rd gen and my 4th Gen TA if I had the surplus cash to do so.

Highly recommended as upgrade for 3rd or 4th gen fbody.

Hawk's Motorsports also gets Highly recommended for doing an excellent installation and and great customer service. I appreciate Hawk's taking the time to help me select the best combination of parts for my car for and driving preferences with this upgrade.

BumpaD82

Is the 8.8 still a C clip axle retention rear end ?

paulo57509

If I'm not mistaken an 8.8" is a Ford differential. No "C" clips.

Kind of makes me wish I had a grand or three burning a hole in my pocket.

Arctic White 91 RS

The Hawk's 8.8 uses the sealed bearing style flush mount ends from Moser not C-clips. No leaks and been street driven for six months so far.

Here's is an interesting video of the Hawk's 8.8 build process.

z28427ss

I just checked the price on the 8.8 rear on Hawks site, 2495.00. While I think the 8.8 is a good rear, for that much money I would buy the Moser 12 bolt!

Arctic White 91 RS

Base price is $1995, options will increase the price.

Mine was around $2750 if I recall correctly because I had some very specific options I wanted like the Torsen T2.

I think the 12-bolt is a good rear and probably fine for automatic cars. However, like the article below mentions, I have had friends blow 12-bolts up with sticky tires and stick shifts.

http://www.hawksmotorsports.com/hawk...-end-assembly/

LS1Tech has an excellent write up on if you want to go fast in a 4th Gen, most of applies to 3rd Gens too.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/new-ls1-ow...anna-fast.html

A few key comments from the LS1tech link that I considered in picking the Hawk's 8.8 over a 12-bolt.

A. Manual 6-Speed (M6)

"First, let me congratulate you on buying the stronger of the two stock transmissions. With minimal changes, this tranny in near-stock form has been deep into the tens. And in built form, it has propelled an F-body to mid-9-second glory. Now for the bad news. You also possess the single most part-destuctive force known to civilized man. FACT. M6 cars break more **** in the drivetrain then most A4 boys ever dream about. To avoid this (as best we can), we are going to talk about parts that are made ultra-tough, just to stand in defiance to this cruel tyrant called the M6 tranny.

3. Rear End

Let's face facts. When the General was building the F-body, he put no thought whatsoever into the choice of the 10-bolt rear. This rear is not even strong enough to hold the stock HP, and is one of the first things to break when a new F-body racer heads to the track. In the case of the M6 tranny, please do not make a $2500 mistake. If you have spent a week on LS1tech, then you have heard the words "12-bolt" and "9-inch" when it comes to rears. If you have an M6, then I want you to forget the first of those. You are about to spend $2500 on a rear; do you really want to break it? 12-bolts are for automatic cars. They last a long time in an auto. But you own the sledgehammer of parts, the T56, breaker of rears. For you, there should be only one choice -- the mighty mighty 9-inch."

It's a good article well worth reading.

With the 31 spline axles the Hawk's 8.8 is as strong/stronger than many 9 inch rear ends. A 9 inch can be ultimately be built stonger but for my application the 8.8 seemed like the best choice.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

8.8 is a strong rear and thats a nice setup. I did want to any extra weight so I went with a "lightweight" 9 inch. Weighs the same as the 9 bolt that came out.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Very nice. Looks like a quality replacement. I too run a ford 8.8. Mines an OE 8.8 out of a crown vic with upgraded posi, 28 spline axles, swapped all my stock brackets and made my own tq arm mount, moser girdle and ARP main cap studs. ITs a strong little rear for sure. You will enjoy it! 500-600hp/tq and still haven't broken the 28 spline stock ford axles.

BUt at that price $2700+ your into S60 territory and they come with 35 spline axles

Arctic White 91 RS

IROCZ1989, that sounds like a sweet set up! My pockets weren't deep enough to but I really wanted an aluminum housing 9 inch.

Custom Black Bird, some of the choices I made helped to drive the cost up. An 8.8 can be optioned to cost less. The S60 is a nice set up Top.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Yea I know. I just went through hawks to build a 8.8 to what I would want on the cheap and its still running $2300-2500 and I would need LS rear brakes. $1995 doesn't include brake brackets, Aftermarket rear cover, sway bar pads or housing paint. Thats keeping OE stamped cover, stock tracklock or spool and nothing else.

Its a nice rear for sure, and should be strong. But I would expect them to be at least $500 cheaper. or include things like painting, sway bar pads and brake brackets.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. It not an aluminun housing though. Chrome moly fab 9 case with aluminum hd strange pumkin. Did the s trac and strange 35 spline. It wont ever break.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Great write up, thank you!

I have a Torsen T-2R in my 84 T/A right now and love how it handles but i'm scared to death to take the thing to the track.

This is an upgrade that I would want to do in the future. What did you do with your drive shaft? did you have to modify it in any way or will the factory one work (I am currently running a 3" aluminum from Inland Empire).

clubber

iTrader: (1)

Ok, until now I've lurked and was planning on a 12 bolt. The 8.8 is cheaper than the 12 bolt I spec'ed out so I have persuaded to change to the 8.8. 3500 for 12 bolt and 2800 for 8.8. Now the lighter strong rear info comes out and I knew nothing of these. I'm on a budget but I'd still like to know what they run. Care to post websites or what you paid for your setup?

Arctic White 91 RS

That looks sharp IROCZ and sounds like an excellent set up too.

Arctic White 91 RS

Ozzy1967, thank you

My car had the sucky steel drive shaft so we changed to an aluminum one from a 3rd/4th gen. Let me check my paperwork because with all the changes my RS got with LS1 swap, I can't recall if we shortened it a little bit.

I think the 8.8 is an excellent choice for most applications. We one the same page about the handling and the T2.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

I look forward to hearing from you about the drive shaft MOD if any.

Arctic White 91 RS

Ozzy,

With the Hawk's 8.8 the stock length shaft works without cutting. Although you will need a conversion U-joint if you choose the optional 1350 yoke.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Now that's what I wanted to hear! Thanks for checking!

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

How much does the Hawks rear end weigh compared to a factory 9bolt or 10 bolt?


This looks like a great option that would weigh less than a 12 bolt.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

My ford 8.8 isnt that heavy, but the Hawks uses heavier axle tubes etc. It weights more than a 10bolt but not near the S60 or 9".

Given the size of the Axle tubes, larger axles, pinion and ring gear size.. the 12 bolt is prob close to the same weight.

I never weighed my 9 bolt or my 8.8 to see the differences tho.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the info. Its very nice option that can take more power than the factory rears were ever designed for.

Arctic White 91 RS

Still very happy with Hawks 8.8 and would love to have one for my 99 TA.


I think a 3rd/4th Gen 10 bolt weight is about 125 pounds based on the one I had in my garage for ten years before it found a new home. Adding a little weighr to the rear isn't a bad thing for the typical 3rd/4th gen. These cars are nose heavy so it can help balance that out some combined with weight reduction in the front of the car. Being able to launch on slicks and not worry makes up for 30 to 60 pounds of rear end weight.

The weights vary based on brakes and differential selected. I found this on the net as a rough guideline. Custom build rears could weigh less or more depending on choices.

complete assembly w/o brakes:
12 bolt 171lbs
S60 191lbs
9 inch 174lbs

I would guess the 8.8 is about 155 to 160 if the 3rd/4th gen 10 bolt is about 125
The GM 8.5 10 bolt is about 150 I think.

With typical factory brakes the weights go up.
Note ford brakes are heavy and could be replaced for weight loss.
12 bolt 210lbs
S60 230 lbs
9 inch 238 lbs

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

A factory ford 8.8 is a C clip rear, most aftermarket setups will use the big bearing ford tube and axles with pressed on bearings.

The 8.8 is a great rearend and will take a ton of abuse.

BrianI

Are you running LT1 or LS1 brakes on the 8.8?

Arctic White 91 RS

My 8.8 on the white RS has Baer LT1 style brakes. 12 inch rotors with park brake.
​I wanted to be able to fit stock RS 16 inch rims or IROC rims for daily driving and stock/near stock appearance.

Buddy

So is this a 'better' rear than an S60?? I remember reading that the S60 was the go to for rear swaps for 3rd (and 4th) gens, Strange states it's even better than their 12 Bolt.
So is this 8.8 better than the S60??
Hawks sells all of them too, and put Moser rears in their Stormtrooper Formula and some of their top shelf customers cars too. So is this kind of the best choice for rear/price???

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Depends on what your def of "better" is. The bolt in 8.8 is relatively new for the F-body but has been around for a long time in ford vehicles.
The 8.8 is strong light for the money but not the strongest. How much power you looking to throw down?

Buddy

I'm an 'overkill' kind of guy. My car is a weekend cruiser, it would maybe see a track every lunar eclipse kind of car. My lottery dream is an LSX swap, lol. I always said if the 9 bolt ever went I'dd want a solid upgrade that would be the 'last' rear for the car.

Arctic White 91 RS

I think the 8.8 is rated for 1,000 hp

The Hawks 8.8 is good for at least 600 rear wheel horse power on slicks, side stepping the clutch at 6000 rpm on a prepped track. My 383 LS1 is good for 465 rear wheel hp witj a small cam and was built for 200 shot of NOS. All the 8.8 components were selected accordingly.
​​​​​​

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

What did you do for brakes?

I have a Zexel Torsen 2T-r in my car now....so this is the reason I'd want to go with an 8.8. I love how this rear drives on the road.

What did you do for brakes? Does your E-brake still work?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

haha... lets try to explain this.

The Ford 8.8 is light and strong. The 8.8 stands for the ring gear DIA...8.8" DIA. The 9" only has a 9" DIA ring gear. The 9" gets its strength from the offset pinon etc. The S60 or Stranges version of the S60 has a much larger DIA Ring gear... not to mention a crazy beefy pumpkin and I think they come standard with 35 spline axles. The 8.8 consumes less power than the 9" and S60 due to design and weight of internals. For comparison the 9" only consumes something like 3% more than the other rears... while it doesnt sound like alot you have 20% loss through the drivetrain on an auto car lets say so... add another 3% so it can be significant like 15/20hp on a decent setup. The 9" and S60 are the top dogs, they are the strongest but you can't say which one is better per say as they have lots of different combos and setups. Both use different designs, but the S60 is more efficient.

You can't even put the ford 8.8 in the same bracket as the 9" and S60. The ford 8.8 is about the same as a 12bolt in stock form (both have 31 spline axles etc) but the ford 8.8 also comes in 28 spline axles (which I have) and that is weaker than the 12bolt with 31 spline axles. If all was the same between the 8.8 and 12 bolt I would vote 8.8 being stronger, not to mention the aftermarket is huge for it, parts are cheaper and thus you can get equal if not better power handling for less money.

Also I think the S60 is a better rear in most cases compared to the 9". Mainly bc you can't break it lol... but the case is very rigid and comes with the super big ring gear and large axles. The 9" will always have the 9" ring gear but you can of course pay extra for a beefed larger ring gear setup but that requires a special case, new center section etc. Plus the 9" can have added braces to stiffen the weak mild steel cases... or go with a full race fabbed rear.

Thats just me tho. I would go 8.8 over the 12 bolt, I would go S60 over the 9". If your not going to make 1000hp dont bother with the S60. LSX swaps are cheap! Im going to be getting 650hp with a supercharged 5.3 for like $4k. Turbo would have been cheaper and made more power but I like the predictability of the supercharger. Right now my datalogs show 525-550hp at 12psi on the 150k 5.3 and the ford 8.8 28spline axles is holding up fine.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

I think this answered my question, did you do the "Big brake upgrade" or just source your own parts?

Buddy

Thank you for that response, that was about one of the best explanation and comparison answers, very nice!!

antman89iroc

Thanks for the info, I really like the 8.8 for my application. My issue is the initial cost of all of them, it's a tough pill to swallow for a 420-500WHP car. I have been leaning toward the 9 inch simply because I have a stock third member I can build up and get a Moser housing/axle package and be in it for less than 2 grand using my stock (PBR) brakes and setting up the gears myself. Then, if power does go up in the future I could build a stronger 3rd and up the strength. The only "concerns" are weight and efficiency but those are minor. However, that 8.8 looks right at home and almost stock.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

This is great information. When I look in to upgrading my rear end I'm consider using this rear.

Arctic White 91 RS

Given that my RS was in for a full restoration & swap, I explained to Bruce what I wanted qualify rear disc brakes for the new rear and a front disc brake upgrade too but the upgrade had to still allow a stock 16 inch rim. He said the Baer Black Label would be a good choice for my goals. I will do a review on the brakes one of these days. I'm very happy with the improvements.

​​​Yes, the brake works perfectly.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the write up. I've been looking at this rear myself. .....now that my 383 is up and running, it's only a matter of time, lol.

Arctic White 91 RS

My pleasure.

I look forward to adding comments in the spring when the 17×11's go on the rear with better tires.

antman89iroc

Update for comparison. My "under $2k" initial estimate for my 9" project has turned into more expense after some options.
Moser housing axle package $1320
QP third member with Yukon carrier, True trac differential and Motive gears $920
Misc parts, paint, oil etc. $100
I reused my stock PBR brakes and my adjustable torque arm. If I had to pay someone to make the brake brackets or the modifications to the torque arm mount it would have added some cost.
Total $2340

It took a lot of work to get the brakes fitted and time setting up the gears and even had to return some parts for exchange. My car was down for almost two months so by the time you figure the added work it is difficult to justify going with a 9" for a mostly street car. Don't get me wrong I like what I have it just didn't really "save" any money or time. If I had to do it over it would be a close call. If I had an automatic the 9" probably isn't worth the effort. If these 8.8's torque arm mounts hold up it is going to be a great option for 3rd & 4th gen f-body cars.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Wow, great review and comparison Antman!

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Good to know some real numbers. Thanks antman89iroc.

But what's money when you have a gal with legs like that standing in front of your car (your avatar)???

Buddy

Hawk's just sent out an email to subscribers last week with 4 rears on sale and ready to go, they were decent prices too.

Arctic White 91 RS

My 99TA's old 10 bolt with 4.10's started sounding like a rock crusher. It lasted 157,2xx miles with heads and cam so that's pretty good for the old 10 bolt.

Fixing the 10 bolt pinion, carrier & axle bearings - $725 but the gear whine will remain
Fixing 10 bolt pinion, carrier, axles bearings & new quality 4.10 gears $1250, this assumes the LSD unit is OK and no other damage. Add $300 for $1550 or so if it is damaged.

I decided to get another Hawks 8.8 with 4.10's this one for a 4th gen TA.

Repeat buyer = am happy with the one in the white RS.

I will add to this review when the TA gets its 8.8 rear.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Well, I definitely know what I"m doing when my new LS swap eats my 10 bolt.

Arctic White 91 RS

The 4th Gen version of the Hawk's 8.8 in my 99TA. Happy with this one also.

Gives a few more pictures of the 8.8











Just for the record and kicks, we pulled apart the old 10 bolt. Fixing it "correctly" would have required:
New axles, (cheater/repair bearings might work) $300
Bearing & seal kit $200
New ring & Pinion $235
Torsen LSD was OK as is
8 hours labor $70 to $100 depending on shop, my shop said $560
(setting ring & pinion is quoted as 5.3 hours!)

$1,295 to fix the old 10-bolt with new axles and new 4.10 gears for the TA

The old rear got cheater bearings and that stock 3.42's tossed in it for $725.
I plan to use it on the convertible 91 RS, the 10 bolt will live behind the 305 TBI

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

I want to say it ran me nearly $700 the last time I had to have the ring-pinion replaced. The bearings went bad and I had a bad whine from 60-70.

What was your total cost shipped to your door?

Arctic White 91 RS

Yes, that sounds familiar - the bearings in the old 10-bolt and ring & pinion whined so bad the drive and passenger had to yell to hear each other.

The shipping was $200 and rear was $3200 with the options selected.
The Torsen True-Trac & powder coating were my expensive options about $600 worth. I like the gear based LSD's