GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Had the second one of these fail. I got a replacement from Summit the first time (3 months - just died). Now I'm just angry and sick of my battery dying so time for a tear down to expose their shoddy manufacturing. This one was always very noisy from day one. High pitched whine when in operation. And then it started not shutting off and draining the battery overnight at about 9 months of use.

First the brushes. Extremely uneven wear:



Next we see the commutator. You can see the aggressive wear to the lower ring. I don't think it's a coincidence that insulation below the ring around the copper bar connected to the winding is broken. There appears to be a manufacturing defect with this commutator ring and its connection. Possibly leading to the excessive brush wear on that ring. And yes that is the winding connected to the lower ring. I checked it with a meter.



Here is the other side leading to the upper ring. Looks undamaged:



The other issue I found is an issue with this "Transpo" adjustable regulator:



First the cover was not secured on one side. It was "lifted" and loose and this was obviously from it being glued down poorly from the Transpo assembler. More on that guy below..... the upper circuit board inside the regulator had a cold solder joint on one of the leads where it was attached to the body terminal:





I was able to simply lift this lead off the solder pad with my probe. I would say this was probably the source of my random battery drain overnight.

I was unimpressed with the overall fit, finish, and most importantly attention to detail with this product. Not only did some assembler at Transpo leave a cold solder joint and a poorly attached cover - the Powemaster assembler didn't even notice the cover was lifted and used it anyway. Not to mention the armature being cracked and the whole unit making high pitched whining noises when in operation.

The good:

Nice NTN bearings.

The Transpo heavy duty diode bridge seems in good shape. No bad diodes. Pretty simple and big assembly so I guess the blind assemblers can see it or at least had their coffee that morning.

This is the alternator in question:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-578618/

GD

ironwill

Those commutator rings look like they've got 100K miles on them.

And a cold solder joint? That should have never got past the assembly line.


Just SMH @ some of the junk on the market in this day and age.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Those brushes and rings look like running with the belt as tight as the boston strangler

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Front and rear armature bearing was in good shape - NTN makes a high quality bearing. No complaints there. It was not an armature alignment problem.

My car has the serpentine system with a factory original spring tensioner. AC Delco belt and the tension indicator is centered.

The Made in China AC Delco alternator never complained when I ran that for quite some time prior to the Powermaster.

GD

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Quite a mess. It's almost like their brush material is too hard, and wearing the copper rings.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Despite the picture, the upper ring and brush seemed in alright shape. But the lower ring and the much more worn brush is a concern. And I don't understand why the severe difference in wear. Might it be related to the broken plastic immediately below the ring where the bus bar should be covered? I don't know enough about the construction of the armature to know. I just know when things look like $hit and smell like $hit that it usually means they are, in fact, $hit.

They should know, though I'm quite sure they don't care, that some of us will take their "high performance, made in USA" garbage apart and see for ourselves. And us consumers aren't all idiots.

GD

J.C. Denton

iTrader: (1)

Well, I just read this and now I am a bit worried how long my Powermaster alternator will last... I bought it from Hawks last September but drove the car just about 100 miles or so since then. I have the Powermaster 47861 in my 88 GTA. I just wanted a slightly stronger CS130 than the factory 105A and that seemed to be a good choice. Car ist bone stock and I just didn't want to modify for a CS144 or something else... Any other direct fit 140A alternators on the market that are "good quality" that won't cost about 500 $ or more?

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Not that I'm aware of. We currently use DC Power Engineering in CA for our performance alternator needs. But yeah they are about $470 for a 180 amp. I don't know if they offer a 140.

Same with starters - two Powermaster starters on my car..... determined they are junk. Went to the Meziere TS400DP - again $550 though.

The quality remains long after the price is forgotten.

GD

scooter

iTrader: (11)

I bought a CS144 from these people years ago, I had no problems with it. I had gone on looking for a CS130 with the upgraded rear case for the larger bearing, but they talked me out of it and said the CS144 is more reliable over time. But if you want something under $500 and higher amperage. https://alternatorparts.com/cs130-cs...ternators.html I plan on going with something from them in the future to put on my 6BT Cummins since I don't want an external regulator, and I will be running a lot of electric use devices in the Suburban

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

That's funny - that place was the first one that came up when I started searching the part numbers for the Transpo adjustable regulator, and the heavy duty diode bridge that's in the Powermaster.

https://store.alternatorparts.com/partnod411sea.aspx

https://store.alternatorparts.com/dr...ternators.aspx

Hopefully they actually look at the parts before they put them in their built units and then test them properly.

GD

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Oops , I'm kinda late to the thread here , but I 100% agree with General Disorder , with that kind of wear to such a low time use unit that slip ring was doomed from it's first rotation . I believe the manufacturing defect was that it was likely dropped during the manufacturing process and picked up off of the floor and installed without getting a look over for damage . The broken plastic near the winding connection is a dead giveaway that it was subject to some kind of moderate to extreme shock/impact , and that force could very well have put the slip ring out of round if it hit the floor at the right (or should that be wrong) angle .

And there is flat out no excuse for the cold solder joint , poor manufacturing plain & simple with a likely possible cause being that the EPA has gotten rid of our good old fashioned leaded solder (that actually worked well at joining wires , cancer be damned) and replaced it with the silver based stuff that is a bit trickier to get a perfect & proper connection with .

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, because some kid is gonna have nothing better to do that rip apart an alternator because he wants to suck on the solder joints.
The further we advance, the dumber things get. Or is it just Washington?

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Well I was cleaning off the healing bench and ran across a commutator resurfacing stone..... thinking I'll repair the solder joint, throw in a new brush set, and see what I've got:



What do you think boys?

I threw it on the old lathe, trued them up and smoothed them out. Might throw it on the newly acquired Formula when I get it operational.

GD

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Oh and when I get an opportunity I'm going to tear down the Chinese AC delco unit (my working spare) and see what the Chinese school girls build - for comparison.

GD

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Mechman makes one. They make a 170 amp version that makes 120 amp at idle. Powermaster quoted me 80 amps at idle. Price is right around 500.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I have a wholesale account with DC Power Engineering for my shop. Theirs is similar but a 180 amp unit. Price is similar before my discount. I ordered one anodized Orange to match my scheme.

GD

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Is it billet front half? Send me a PM with pricing. I'm ready to pull the trigger soon and I've talked to Mechman and Us altenators already.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Yeah it's a billet front. It would be this one:

https://www.dcpowerinc.com/collectio...o-1990-5-0l-v8

They are $469. There's an upcharge for anodizing and additional wait time.

GD

ULTM8Z

There's absolutely no reason to go aftermarket anymore to get higher output. Just get a GM AD244 and adapt it in... so freaking easy and you get factory stuff. Mind you, some of the guts are probably Chinese in origin (even on the Delco units), but the overall size and internals are designed for the higher output.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

The reason is to have an anodized billet alternator that's a bolt-in. Sure you can put in an AD244 and have a Chinese, bulbous, ugly-as-a-stump-fence engine bay wart..... and it will probably be pretty cheap like the AC Delco Chinese CS130 for $75 Amazon Prime.

A high performance AD244 that's US made and looks cool like the upgraded CS130 isn't going to cost any less is my point. I don't personally need more than 180 amps, so the additional output of the AD244 isn't really worth the additional work. If I had a customer that wanted the AD244 output I would still get one from DC Power Engineering and it would be similarly priced.

I guess the point is that I didn't go aftermarket to get more output. The AC Delco 105 Amp runs my car just fine. I went aftermarket to get a higher quality part that's going to last longer and look better doing it. The stock AD244 conversion doesn't fit my needs.

GD

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I bought a $9 brush set off ebay, and set to work on the healing bench to get this garbage functional again. I just can't let it go. $210 flushed down the toilet just sticks in my craw too hard.

Anyway. As seen before I put a proper finish on the armature rings with a commutator stone and the armature chucked in my lathe:



Then I pulled out the soldering iron and some quality solder to fix the regulator:





I potted and sealed the regulator circuits with clear silicone.

Assembled, installed, and running:



14.48v at idle. And now it makes no noise when running (always had a loud annoying whine from day one - probably those destructive brushes), and when it's off it has no battery draw and no high pitched ringing of the diodes.

Seems (so far) that the repairs are successful and in total have solved all the issues I was having with it.

I'll still NEVER patronage PowerMaster again. But maybe I win some small victory by fixing this and showing everyone here how not to pick a quality alternator/starter manufacturer.

GD

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Very good work indeed ! The slip rings look great and your soldering work looks far better than the original .

My only question here is , when you mention using clear silicone I pray you used silicone specifically labeled "electronics safe" ?

A lot of people aren't aware that there is a difference , but it's an important one . Regular (non electronic safe) silicone has an acid in it that corrodes electronics , over time a green corrosion builds up leading to connection failures . The electronics safe silicone has no such acid , and therefore does not have the distinctive smell that the regular silicone gives off when curing .

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

Nice tip. I never knew that about the silicone. Where do you get it?

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I used Dow Corning 737 neutral cure silicone. I had some around from some other electronics weather proofing work I've done in the past..... I should have probably used the pour-in stuff to avoid any voids that might collect liquid moisture. This was proof of concept. I'll probably take it apart and maybe do the poured in potting and actually solder the VR and brush connections - Powermaster didn't but my cheap Chinese ACDelco unit has all the connections soldered.

GD

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I think I'll use this for potting it and ensuring there is no voids. And also solder the VR and brush connections to the diode bridge.

Smooth-On says the Oomoo product range is suitable for electronic potting. And low viscosity so no need to vacuum degas it.


GD

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Hi NoEmissions84TA , I get it at my local electronics parts store , "You Do It Electronics" in Needham Ma. To be honest I've never checked places like Home Depot but if they carry any that says either "electronics safe" or "neutral cure" it'll be OK for use on electronics .

Thank You GD for jogging my memory on the "neutral cure" designation , I knew there was another term besides "electronics safe" that I had seen used with non acidic silicone and yes indeed neutral cure is the same (good) stuff to use . As to the soldering , I'm really surprised powermaster didn't solder the connections , considering the environment under the hood (heat , vibration , moisture) anything less than a soldered connection is a failure waiting to happen .

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Mice save GD.

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

Yep, I would have done the same as GD too. Spend that kind of money and get GARBAGE. I'll fix it better myself!
That alternator being built the way it was, IMO, PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE!
The same reason I can't stand to buy anything new. I don't know about you, but I can just instantly see the failure points "purposely?" built into items advertised as "heavy duty" or "long-lasting, lubed-for-life......."

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

That's how we did it back in the day. Rip it down and give it a good once over. Outstanding repair of a not so outstanding product!

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Thanks guys. I'll take a few more pics when I pot the regulator with pourable silicone and solder the connections from the brushes and diodes to the regulator.

Then I do plan to take apart the ACDelco Chinese built unit and take comparison pics of the innards.

After re-re-building and testing the Powermaster I might let it live in the Formula I recently acquired.

GD

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I opened the regulator back up and found there were voids in the silicone I used. It's just too viscous for potting. The voids could lead to liquid moisture forming because silicone will allow water vapor to penetrate through and voids may allow it to condense.

Cleaned up and ready for the potting silicone:



GD

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Final pics of the repair. Regulator potted in proper poured-in potting silicone, and both brush to regulator and regulator to diode bridge connections properly soldered:

Seems to be working well at this point. My Chinese ACDelco alt died. I guess a post mortem on ACDelco parts is next. Stay tuned.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Looking forward to seeing that. I have an AC on my car. The original owner took the T/A back to a GM dealer for all his service. So the only replacement items under the hood (battery and alternator) are both AC Delco. Going on six years of owning it myself, and both are still going strong, though the car admittedly leads an easy life.