BMmonteSS

Well, I had my self convinced that converting a performer rpm was going to be too involved because of the way the runners enter the head at different angles. They alternate between one coming in high and one low, so putting the bungs in them evenly without blocking the high port more than the low port was going to be a trick. After seeing that pic on that last link (thanks right foot!) I'm starting to wounder if it would be all that bad, since the injector sits so close to where the intake hits the head.

Grumpy, you have a good point about how intakes will generally "act" larger when ran without fuel. Thats one of the reason's I would like to stay away from a big single plane. This motor will never see the high side of 6500 rpm, and it will be a daily driver, so I would like to keep some bottom end torque and throttle response. Short of the HSR I think it's the best compromise of runner length and flow. I have enough room to use a 3/4" spacer, so I think I'll have a decent plenum size, and If I find it isn't, I can always go for the "big box" on top of the intake aproach. I dunno, it's hard to hack up a 160 dollar intake when I can get a cheap small single plane for 30 bucks off of ebay.

slepac

While we are at it, i might as well add mine to the mix.
Note the trusty TPI exhaust manifolds proudly on display.

slepac

And you probably can't see much on the shrunk down picture so:

cmexlr8

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone considered using a simple aluminum plate kind of like onebinky just as a adapter to a late model ford upper plenum(4.6 ohc):

This would point the inlet in the right direction.

Kenwood

iTrader: (1)

Im still confused as to whats wrong with my setup versus all this unnecessary fab work>>>

BTW I dont want to hear any crap about the setup being dirty/dusty...It sat all winter with the hood off and is just now being reassembled...

This is accell Pro Ram/ precision turbo 110 deg elbow/ accufab 90MM throttlebody.. I could ALMOST>>>even with the discharge tubing mounted run a stock GTA hood>>> if I milled the elbow down 1/4" I could run a stock hood...

The only fab work involved oon the intake was Self inflicted as I had ported it to a Fel Pro race 1206 gasket..

I know dirty...very dirty...But Ill post clean pics later..

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

Who said anything was wrong with your setup? And why is the fab work we are doing unnessesary? It's all just a hobby.

Kenwood

iTrader: (1)

Maybe unnecessary was not the right verbage to use>>but Essentially what I was getting at is that they MAKE the exact thing your fabbing and its not that expensive... I have well under 600 in that intake setup>>>TB included...Everything was new AND Its flowing more than the ones I see in the pics using tpi throttle bodies.. ... So its hardly cost prohibitive..Its probably the cheapest complete setup out there..


I was curious why the obsession with fabing something thats in the market already relatively cheaply... Was not trying to ATTACK..

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I dunno. I have like $300 into my singleplane setup..

The "allready converted" manifolds summit sells look nice, but the price tag is still too high IMO.

-- Joe

Craig Moates

I didn't have much of a choice on manifolds since I have a tall deck block, and it had to be fabbed. Plus, I wanted to use the shorty injectors. Plus, 1000cfm wasn't going to cut it. I don't need the SC stuff though, so real easy to go with a regular-type DFI style TB on a big Dart-type intake. Still, the work for the bungs was a bit.

But yeah, you can buy a lot of this stuff out of the box. You can make it too. That's part of the joy I think is the DIY aspect. You can bring it up to the car show and folks ask 'where'd you get it?' You can respond with 'I made it'...

Kenwood

iTrader: (1)

I can understand the clearance issues..the CFM is not really an issue...for instance the setup I have is the smallest size exbow...and a medium size TB... you can get a dominator based flange setup and a 110 or bigger TB,.

Never gave much thought to the short injector issue though...I dont use the smaller sizes so I never really gae it a second thought..


I understand the custom fabbed aspect too...Obviously most of my setup is fabbed.I just was looking for reasoning behind reinventing the wheel so to speak...

One of my gripes off of these boards has been that people get on here constantly and complain about WHY DONT THEY MAKE THIS< WHY DONT THEY MAKE THAT< THEY MAKE IT FOR RICERS... Then someone develops it and people say...tooo expensive etc etc.. I can make one for 50 bucks why do they charge 100.. etc etc

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

It's not even really reinventing the wheel. It's just a cheaper means to the same end. With the opportunity for alot more problem solving and thought process.

I see where you are coming from with everyone bitching about prices, but for me price wasn't really the big deciding factor. I enjoy straying off the beaten path and finding a different way to do things. While sometimes I wish I would have ponied up the extra $300 dollars, I don't think the lost knowledge and experience on manifold design and theory, and the lost fabrication experience would be worth it. Just my .02 I guess.

Here's the newest incarnation of it. I also have a holley 750cfm 2 bbl TB on it now instead of the ford 70mm.

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

which one flows better the Victor EFI or the super victor 2925
?
I talked to a local guy but he wants to charge me $450 to put bungs in and put some rails on the intake. That's with me supplying everything but the rails. Which is pretty outrageous. For that i can spend $400 and get the victor efi and rails to go with it ready to bolt on. Anyone do this on the side?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Well, question would be, which one has the ports to match your heads, or the portential to be ported to a larger gasket - and then match your heads.

I remember a few folks complaining about the victor EFI gasket size. Best bet is to read my post with links to all the manifolds, and go from there.

-- Joe

Craig Moates

I played with some of the Holley units, very nice. Actually there's a guy locally here that is looking to sell a setup, MPFI Holley intake with rails. Had one on my Vortec setup, it worked very nicely.

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

I'll be going with either Dart Pro 1 Aluminum 72cc or 64cc heads both have a 200cc intake runner. It really depends if i want to take the next step and go boosted. I'll need the lower compression heads to run more boost. Both are the same price and within my budget. I have everything planned out as to how much i want to spend on en EFI setup for my car. What would one of you guys charge to put bungs in an intake? Or would you feel like messing with it? I'll send the intake and bungs, and pay for shipping both ways, and compensate you for your time. Also maybe you could do something about the fuel rails. As said I will buy them but i need some way to attach them to the manifold, I was thinking like a carb spacer drilled and tapped to bolt the rails to it?

Kenwood

iTrader: (1)

As I exxplained on the other forum...the pro ram is just a vic jr manifold.... It sytarts with a measly 1204 gasket>>>But has enough meat to safely port to a 1206 medium race gasket... ! hour with a die grinder and polisher and I have a bolt on 1206 setup... thats on my 221CC Brodix heads.. I PAID LESS FOR MY MANIFOLD/RAILS than your getting quoted to modify your own parts...

Craig Moates

Here's one that I like the looks of. Just gotta get it to match up to your heads:

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...f9901-119.html

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

thats the intake i missed for $160 on ebay that's what i wanted. But i dont have $340 to buy just an intake

KagA152

iTrader: (5)

kenwood, i cant seem to find any information about the precision elbow. i found some other company that has them for like $240 also, is that an ls1 throttle body?

Kenwood

iTrader: (1)

Precision DOES NOT list them on their website>>>Call them...they make them... Mine was like $190 direct from them...

The throttle body is NOT LS1...thats bigger than an LS1 TB.. That is an ACCUFAB 90MM ford throttle body....

When you buy the elbow from precision you have to tell them what way you want the TB to face... then tell them weather you have a 4150 flange (holley) or 4500 flange(dominator) manifold... then you must know what size TB you will run...the casting is made for your exact size.. so you can go from factory 60mm mustang one all the way up to like an accufab 120mm one...

The trick to the setup is knowing how to make the TB work...You have to make some brackets and stuff to get your regular TPI throttle cable to work>>> Then you must BUY a precision turbo GM IAC adaptor>>>Allows you to run a TPI IAC on a ford throttle body... finally you must change your TPS to one from a 1993 mustang... the wiring and logic is similar>>>just have to put a new plug on your wiring harness..

Ive seen guys just take a TPI throttle cable...drill a hole in the TB plate and put a bolt through it... HOWEVER I though that looked cheezy and most of them I saw like that the hole was in the wrong spot so the geometry was incorrect..

To do the cable you figure out how much the cable moves from off throttle to full pedal...then work that number off of the imaginery radius of the TB>>>>What Im saying is the centerline of the TB>>the further away from the centerline of the TB you put your screw the More movement in inches it takes to get to WOT...so you need to do the math right so WOT on the pedal = WOT on the TB...

Once I did that I welded a small plate to the ford TB...I took an OLD TPI TB and ground off the rivet that held the clevis for the throttle cable...I drilled and tapped where the rivet was and then I was able to bolt the factory clevis to the ford TB...so my throttle cable attaches exactly like stock with the little ring clip..

the rest is cream cheeze..

FWIW If you dont feel like calling precision turbo then look at WILSON MAnifolds website.. I believe WIlson makes them for precision.. BUT IMHO the Wilson ones look gay.. Has a Huge WILSON down the back of it... LOL...Ill take one with a PTE logo any day of the week..

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Some of you may know, I stripped and parted out my formula, and bought a '91 firebird. (TBI car).

In a very long weekend (worked with my sister from 9:00am saturday until 2:30am sunday, then came back around noon until midnight) I/we:

removed engine and trans
changed motor mounts
sandblasted and undercoated car
cut holes for shifter + hydraulics
installed pedals for clutch, hydraulics
installed my engine, trans, rear end
installed walbro 255lph fuel pump in tank, flushed fuel
installed new front rotors/pads,earls lines, bleed brakes

I decided since it was a new car, I wanted to try something
new. I sold my "converted" manifold on ebay, and bought:

HLY-9901-101-1 EFI manifold
HLY-9900-171 4bbl 1,000cfm TB from a board member
HLY-9900-172 Fuel rails with non adj regulator
ATI cast alum carb/tb hat

I will be port matching the intake to my heads (1205 port) this weekend, and getting it all together next week.

Then I just need to finish repinning the TBI harness to MPFI, and road test/finalize the tune.

I'll post pix and results as things progress.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

intake is in. ported and matched to a 1205 gasket.

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

Looking good so far. It also looks alot shorter than my Vic Jr. Keep us updated on how you like it, I may end up changing for something like that as well to try and get back under a stock hoodline.

Lo-tec

got a great deal on a used cutler(holley) intake with rails

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Yeah if anyone is interested, Lo-tec has the same intake with rails for sale for a GREAT price!

This holley/cutler intake is really sweet. Lo-tec's I believe is polished, at least it looks so from the pix.

-- Joe

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

How much $$$ are you looking to get for it? Any idea on the total height?

KagA152

iTrader: (5)

i need a throttle body! what are the advantages of a 4 barrel type compared to an elbow with a monoblade? whos got one they want to sell

406GTA

I paid $350 for 1000 FM 4BRL TB used. New ones are in the $400+ range.

I have been thinking about using a throttle base from a carburator, for example.
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Prof...baseplate.html

Then machining the upper half out of aluminum, or even plastic.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Im selling the vortec TB, alum adapter, and 2 hats this week. I won't have any use for them since I bought a 4bb off lo-tec.

If anyones interested. Lemme know.

-- Joe

Craig Moates

I've also got a 4bbl TB if you need one, I could sell it if you want.

Lo-tec

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=313949

send me a PM about $$...it is for sale cheap

KagA152

iTrader: (5)

can i get some pics and prices from you guys? my email is KagA152@yahoo.com

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

It looks like yours is actually a little taller than mine. Maybe I'll end up getting a cowl like you did. I have some massive cobra style scoop on my car now, but I don't really like how it looks.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

New pix:

http://filestore.cisdi.com/eng/

-- Joe

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

Lookin good

What are you going to use for an air cleaner? Just a regular drop base open element?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

ATI carb hat (aluminum), which will go 90* turn right into my vortech.

I may or may not put the intercooler back in.. I don't really wanna cut up the radiator support on this car. I may sell the IC and buy two small IC's. We shall see.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Tonights progress. Stock hood wont close. I might end up having to use my cowl

-- Joe

Lo-tec

What are the dimensions on that top hat (that thing is huge )? I had to angle mine forward with a "modified" plastic S10 tb spacer (ground it down with a 40 grit disc on a large right angle grinder). I'm guessing the front part of the hat is hitting. That thing is so big, you might be able to have the tb mounting surface angle ground slightly to get it to dip down.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I'll go check in a bit. It's taller than the one you had for sure.. That might be a good thing, remembering back you said you had flow issues with the hard angle on the low profile hat. This might solve it.

I did some more research. I can close the hood with JUST the hat on. I'm wondering if I cut the supports out of the hood (like the HSR guys do), and try to "pull down" the plumbing a little, it might clear with a little bit to spare. I'm gonna try that today.

I gotta hit up the junk yard too. The TBI throttle cable was about 3/4" too long with the bracket you sent me, so it wont open the throttle all the way. I'm gonna try a early Fbody carb application.. That part # you gave me, I was trying to cross it but couldn't -- do you happen to know what the application was?

I'd email you but my email has been on and off for the last week. I gotta straighten that out.

-- Joe

Lo-tec

Stock cable for a carbed 84 Z28. I would guess any year cable for a stock camaro/firebird with a q-jet would work.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

And it did. Pulled one off an '85 today.

Infact, there is 2 available. There was 2 85's side by side and had two different length cables. Very strange. I pulled the shorter of the two, and it was an EXACT FIT!

I also spent 2 hours changing the cooling fan on my Ninja. Jesus christ those things are tight to work on.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

This thing is too tall. It just won't clear in the front. I cut the supports out of the hood, and it closes, but with great contact with the top of the bonnet. Not good in my book.

I'm ordering a turbonetix carb hat today and gonna see if that clears.

-- Joe

Craig Moates

Another idea is to mill the top of that intake manifold. It has like 2" excess on the TB deck from what I recall.

I milled back my 90 hat to make it clear. Actually milled a pitch to it. I had it coming out the side though, and that gave much more clearance than going over the front.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I went with a turbonetix hat, and re-did the plumbing. This clears with about 1/4" to spare. May or might not hit. If it does, I'll get a cowl

Lo-tec

Lookin' good Billy Ray!

Craig Moates

If it hits, you'll hear it, right? Solid mounts?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Stock replacement type mounts. (pioneer).

I fired it up last night. (special order adapter finally showed up).

Only one fuel leak. Fixed right away. Adjusted the reg to 45psi, set timing.. Runs good.

Holley pissed me off. You buy the manifold, then you buy the ruel rail kit. kit comes with regulator, and all the adapters except for ONE. You have to special order the adapter (about $45). The adapter is the same as the other ones in the box, they just leave one out (for the reg) so you have to buy it. The box doesn't contain a parts list, or instructions. Lame.. Very lame.

But it seems to work well. Only foulup I had with the whole thing was, my book said the relay on the left was Fuel, and right was fan. I wired them wrong, and the pump wouldn't kick on. Figured it out, changed the splice (green/white stripe) and it fired right up. Woot.

-- Joe

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Lets not be stealing my ideas before I can finish my project.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Im about to convert a Vic Jr for a 400+ cid Turbo project.

Question for anyone who make their own injector bungs.

Did everyone do em like this?
http://aldengard.lixom.nu/gallery/in...sion/inj_boss3



http://aldengard.lixom.nu/gallery/in...j_boss1?full=1


with the steps? what about the top 45* like the injectors?

maybe I missed it posted above. I did note the angle isnt that important. but IF it was any idea what the optimal angle should be.

406GTA

The purchased ones on my first intake, and the ones I made myself, were basicalled just 3/4" round alum. cut in 2 inch long chunks. Then drilled out straight through with a .530" bit in a lathe. The injector will bottom out, so there is no need to make a fancy step pattern in the material. BTW I am using Ford Motorsports injectors.