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Had a busy week but got a few hours in on the car this weekend, got the cam in it, chain on, timing cover on, balancer, alternator, water pump, power steering, radiator, fans, all back together, finishing up loose ends with all of that this week, and getting it ready to start the HSR swap. I got a few hose ends, some braided hose, ordered a throttle bracket off eBay, and got a few other odds and ends for the swap. I would like to get it running and driving again in the next 2-3 weeks. I'm really excited to see how the car drives with the smaller cam and the HSR on it. I also sent 2 of the SLP ZR1's that came with this car down to LA to have them widened to a 17x11 for my 92 that the T ram is going on. I will start a build thread on that car once I get going on it, I don't want to tear it apart until I have this car going again. I have a set of 17x8/17x11 torque thrust 2's that have drag radials on rear that I had on my 92 from years ago that I am going to swap onto the blue car to make some passes down the strip with.
No we run at PIR. Wednesday night 1/8 mile ET brackets. Currently I am letting my dad drive my bracket car (gen 4 LS1 car) but occasionally I run my 92. I love about 15 min from Woodburn dragstrip, but the politics at that track ruin any fun you could ever have down there.
Charlie, I have some more paper work I just found and want to get to you.It is the Trick Flow heads as well as AFR heads package AND the cam card for the one your putting back in the car that I had the best luck with. I will send you a text with a photo of the cam card. It is a Crane cam, part # 109621, grind # HR-276-2S-12 IG. With 1.5 ratio rockers, which it has, it comes out to .488 lift intake and .509 lift exhaust. Duration at .050 of 214 I and 222 E.
Minimum RPM is 2K and max power at 5500RPM, valve float at 6500RPM.
Advertised duration is 276 and 284.
I will get this packet to you soon, but you can probably look up the full cam card now.
Here is another listing for the same slp cam. Maybe a supplier or design change.
in: .495" 270 218
ex: .502" 276 224
It has 114 LSA and is ground 3 degree advanced
I actually found that GM high tech GTA built with the T ram that went 12.4 with your combo. I have been busy as heck at work but I have been slowly but surely getting things put back together on the car. I'm finishing my last side job I'm working on today, so all week this upcoming week I will be working on it. I'm excited to see how it performs once it's back together.
Would have liked to see how it did with the T-Ram, AFR's and old cam, but totally understand why you swapped intakes. The HSR should work better with those heads, but the cam will be holding it back. Should still run really well though. Keep plugging away Charlie, your on the right track.
Here is another listing for the same slp cam. Maybe a supplier or design change.
in: .495" 270 218
ex: .502" 276 224
It has 114 LSA and is ground 3 degree advanced
It wasnt an SLP cam, but it was close. I read an article in GMHIGHTEC back in the mid 90's and I modeled my build off of his. He had that same cam and ran mid to low 12's. SLP never really released the cam specs on the cam they used on the 3rd gen firehawks as far as I know, but I quit looking for it in the late 90's.
This is the article right dave??? I found this bumping around online and I remembered you said it was a white GTA. I would have loved to play around with the T ram more on this car but I felt like it would have been just creating extra work for myself doing the intake twice. I did use that nice aluminum timing cover you sent with the car, I couldn't get the lingenfelter valve covers polished up real nice so I had them powdercoated low gloss black and it looks really clean, now I am going through hose by hose, wire by wire and letting my OCD go wild making part of the plumbing look like it came that way factory. Even utilizing the factory coil bracket with the MSD coil and what not. I'm considering swapping to a low mount single belt serpentine setup on it as well. My next focus is going to be on plug wire routing and mounting. It's going to be a little bit of a challenge with the smog tubes on the SLP headers but I will make something clean and clean and classy looking work. Everybody that sees the car falls in love with it. It really is a great car that was obviously well cared for.
It wasnt an SLP cam, but it was close. I read an article in GMHIGHTEC back in the mid 90's and I modeled my build off of his. He had that same cam and ran mid to low 12's. SLP never really released the cam specs on the cam they used on the 3rd gen firehawks as far as I know, but I quit looking for it in the late 90's.
Right, think I remember you saying that. I was posting the middle of the road SLP cam just for comparison.
The general thought is SLP used the "middle" 5006 cam for the 92hawk. Their larger cam wasn't E-legal IIRC.
Awesome, I know I've read this before but couldn't find it for my file. Thanks for posting it.
Originally Posted by charlie6178
This is the article right dave??? I found this bumping around online and I remembered you said it was a white GTA. I would have loved to play around with the T ram more on this car but I felt like it would have been just creating extra work for myself doing the intake twice. I did use that nice aluminum timing cover you sent with the car, I couldn't get the lingenfelter valve covers polished up real nice so I had them powdercoated low gloss black and it looks really clean, now I am going through hose by hose, wire by wire and letting my OCD go wild making part of the plumbing look like it came that way factory. Even utilizing the factory coil bracket with the MSD coil and what not. I'm considering swapping to a low mount single belt serpentine setup on it as well. My next focus is going to be on plug wire routing and mounting. It's going to be a little bit of a challenge with the smog tubes on the SLP headers but I will make something clean and clean and classy looking work. Everybody that sees the car falls in love with it. It really is a great car that was obviously well cared for.
I spent some time on the intake last night. I mounted it on the mill and killed the tops of the runners down .200" for good clearance, then I had to take off one undrilled coolant boss and a small part of the webbing on the back corner of the intake so I can mount the coil with the factory bracket, tool a little time with the carbides and some glass bead to get it flat and make it look cast like it never was there.
This is the article right dave??? I found this bumping around online and I remembered you said it was a white GTA. I would have loved to play around with the T ram more on this car but I felt like it would have been just creating extra work for myself doing the intake twice. I did use that nice aluminum timing cover you sent with the car, I couldn't get the lingenfelter valve covers polished up real nice so I had them powdercoated low gloss black and it looks really clean, now I am going through hose by hose, wire by wire and letting my OCD go wild making part of the plumbing look like it came that way factory. Even utilizing the factory coil bracket with the MSD coil and what not. I'm considering swapping to a low mount single belt serpentine setup on it as well. My next focus is going to be on plug wire routing and mounting. It's going to be a little bit of a challenge with the smog tubes on the SLP headers but I will make something clean and clean and classy looking work. Everybody that sees the car falls in love with it. It really is a great car that was obviously well cared for.
LOL, yep, thats the same one. I have the original well worn rag stashed some where in the house I am not living in any longer. I searched for that thing several times but I have crates of magazines that go back to the mid 80's stashed above the garage. Hope the ex doesn't pitch them. That is the car / article I based building the car off of.
Does anybody know the length or the part number for the 87 throttle cable? The car has 92 throttle cable and the AZ speed TB is setup for a 92, and it's about 2" too short it seems. Dave was telling me about that, and I just got it to the point of mocking that part up and i think the easiest fix will be just get an 87 cable for it.
I know the cable 85-88 discontinued. You should post in the classifieds wanted section.the cable is gm 14080202. The cable is shorter than the 89-92 wrap around cable cables do not interchange it depends on the Throttlebody arm.
Last edited by Tuned Performance; 07-20-2018 at 11:29 AM.
I'm getting closer, piece by piece. Does the temp sensor in the drivers side Head have to stay in that location? Or could I put it in the front of the intake and plug that hole? Only reason I ask is that the harness that particular wire comes out of is for all of the AC wires, and the compressor isn't on the car, and I would like to tie all of them up and run just that one wire along the injector wires and straight to the front of the intake of that will work. I can't see any reason it won't, but I'm not a GM wiring expert
Charlie, I think I had the throttle cable that is in the car made. I dont recall the name of the outfit, might have been lokar? Could have been the Lokar cable was the one from the kick down bracket to TB? I had one of the cables custom made. I have all of the AC parts except the compressor, still need to rescue that from my house. Shoot me an email with your mailing address and I will send you the Trick Flow Heads documents and cam cards I forgot to give you. I know your busy, but you will want these later.
So I couldn't locate a good used or new 87 throttle cable so I just measured out the difference in length, drilled a new hole in the plastic arm on the AZ speed TB and slotted it for the cable with a cutoff disc, works like a charm. Tonight I am going to drill and tap another hole in the existing boss on the front drivers corner of the HSR base for the other temp sender, and plug the hole in the head. All of the new coolant hoses will be here tomorrow, as well as the thermostat housing. Pretty soon I'm going to run out of things to put back together on it!
Be carefull with adjusting the TV cable, if it inst shifting right stop and rethink the throttle cable attachment.. Does the cable have enough throw to open the TB blades all the way open with where the cable barrel is attached?
The TV cable seems to be spot on as far as ballpark throw of the cable, and the throttle seems to be right where it needs to be too. I got all of the sensors in the coolant sealed up tonight, finished up some loose ends, got the belts back on, mocked up the thermostat, and started looking at vacuum lines next. I'll swap all of the coolant hoses out when they get here tomorrow, then vacuum lines, PCV system, and it should be ready to bump the key and see if it makes noise again
There's something ****y about that throttlebody. The 87 cable uses a stud like the cruise control, it wouldn't work with that style throttlebody anyway. Unless it has another stud on the back of the bellcrank that's not visible in the photo.
But what's really odd is that the throttle cable location on the bellcrank is further forward than a later TPI throttlebody. Thinking some of the LT1 or Corvette throttle bodies used that kind of bellcrank. Some of the aftermarket throttle bodies have a second hole drilled like your modification.
Yeah, that does look like it has a early LT1 bellcrank on the t-body..
I’ve seen Arizona speed and marine use this linkage on there 89/92 tb.
The way to identify the tb would to look at the tps side to see if it uses a lt1 or tpi tps. If it uses a lt1 tps I’m not sure that .54v could be obtained even with elongated holes. And of course you would need to change the 3 wire connector.
Post 58 shows a TPI tps sensor on the ASM t-body sooo who knows?
Originally Posted by Tuned Performance
I’ve seen Arizona speed and marine use this linkage on there 89/92 tb.
The way to identify the tb would to look at the tps side to see if it uses a lt1 or tpi tps. If it uses a lt1 tps I’m not sure that .54v could be obtained even with elongated holes. And of course you would need to change the 3 wire connector.
The TB uses a TPI TPS, 1987 MAF version. It's been a long time, but I recall the later speed density cars used a different TPS and throttle cable? The SLP throttle kick down bracket used a 91- 92 throttle cable from the peddle to the bracket ( which I swapped out) and a SLP provided cable from the kickdown bracket assembly to throttle body. That short cable was the same as a 90-92 speed density TB attachment point. If I remember correctly I had AZM make the TB with a MAF TPS, but newer style ( speed density) throttle cable attachment point.
To answer the question as to whether or not the AZM TB has a LT1 TPS, No it does not. What Charlie is running in to is the differences between cable ends on a 1987 and 1991 - 92 as well as the TPS sensor differences. The TB was custom made for me, it has an earlier MAF based TPS and later model speed density based throttle cable attachment point.
Yeah dave is right! It's a 90-92 cable, and the 87 bellcrank for sure, I just couldn't find an 87 style cable locally so I just added another hole. Works perfect! I got the majority of the coolant hoses and a few of the vacuum lines replaced this evening, along with some more rerouting of wires and what not. It's really starting to come together now! I need to weld up the 4 vacuum ports on the back of the plenum next, then drill a handful of 1/4" NPT holes to use all of the OEM vacuum fittings I had off an LT1 I had laying in the back of my shop. The biggest hurdle I'm trying to wrap my head around now and get sorted out is getting the 2 vacuum lines from the throttle body to the charcoal canister cleanly. I can run the smaller line up the fender along the hood release cable, but the bigger one that goes to the lower port on the throttle body I'm not sure exactly how I am going to get that done cleanly.
Dave, do you think I should run the 24lbs injectors you sent with the car? Or stick with the 36lbs white injectors that were in the T ram??? I am leaning towards the smaller injector, I thought I remember you saying that ed Wright tune was on the 24lbs injectors if I remember correctly.
The heat in Portland killed my chances of being able to get this thing back running and driving this weekend, but I did finish up a bunch of loose ends on it and plugged off almost all of the vacuum on the intake, and hit the key and it runs. I only ran it for about 30 seconds and the timing was just eyeball close but none the less it made noise again. This week I need to finish everything up and get it back on the road
If the hose on the pass side of the t-body is going to valvecover fresh air vent, it should be hooked to the top port of the t-body.
The vapor canister hooks to the middle and coolant on the lower port.
PCV valve should be on driver side.
I was planning on running the fresh air to the crank case off the lower port on the TB just got the fact that it's the right size, then capping the upper port, and running the vapor canister to a vacuum port on the back side of the plenum. I can't imagine that will be a big deal right? I just didn't want to try stretching a 3/8 hose onto a 1/2 air port.
The upper port is restricted down and is in front of the throttle blades. (No vacuum at idle or running)
the middle port opens behind the blades. (Has vacuum )
it makes a difference in operation.
Yeah dave is right! It's a 90-92 cable, and the 87 bellcrank for sure, I just couldn't find an 87 style cable locally so I just added another hole. Works perfect! I got the majority of the coolant hoses and a few of the vacuum lines replaced this evening, along with some more rerouting of wires and what not. It's really starting to come together now! I need to weld up the 4 vacuum ports on the back of the plenum next, then drill a handful of 1/4" NPT holes to use all of the OEM vacuum fittings I had off an LT1 I had laying in the back of my shop. The biggest hurdle I'm trying to wrap my head around now and get sorted out is getting the 2 vacuum lines from the throttle body to the charcoal canister cleanly. I can run the smaller line up the fender along the hood release cable, but the bigger one that goes to the lower port on the throttle body I'm not sure exactly how I am going to get that done cleanly.
Dave, do you think I should run the 24lbs injectors you sent with the car? Or stick with the 36lbs white injectors that were in the T ram??? I am leaning towards the smaller injector, I thought I remember you saying that ed Wright tune was on the 24lbs injectors if I remember correctly.
As long as the 24lb injectors till work correctly, use them. TPIS bluprinted them and they flowed evenly across the board. The new white injectors? I have no idea, same with the red SVO injectors. The non Bosche injectors were bought new, but never really used. Those TPIS black Bosche injectors flat out worked with the TF heads and mild cam. I would say plug them in and see how it runs. You can always plug the others in later and see if it runs better. Just make sure the Bosche injectors are not gummed up from sitting so long. Same with the others.
Charlie, your making great progress on the car, I bet starting it up with the HSR and old cam was rewarding. That car should be a lot of fun to drive with that set up. It wont be the fastest thing on the street but the throttle response and mid range torque will surprise most people. I would really recomend going through those Trick Flow heads and replacing the valve springs and guides. I'm sure the AFR's are great, but that cam isnt going to take advantage of them, the TF's will. I am really interested to see how it runs with the AFR's though.
Keep up the good work man, your are on the right path.
Yeah I can't wait to get it back on the road, the one with the old school SLP stickers on it is at my vinyl guys place right now, he's going to reproduce that original sticker for me and I'm going to have him print me up a handful of them if anybody wants them. I have always been a fan of smaller cams making power down low, and taking advantage of airspeed with the intake. It's really coming together well! I have those 24lbs injectors in the car now, and it fired and ran ok with them so I think with a bottle of techron it should be fine!
It's a 90-92 cable, and the 87 bellcrank for sure, I just couldn't find an 87 style cable locally so I just added another hole.
Ehhh.... No. It really doesn't matter, but... An 87 cable wouldn't have worked at all, because instead of a round ferrule crimped on the cable, it'd have a typical eyelet that would slip over a peg and a keeper clip. It's not an 87 or 92 bellcrank.
Pic from an old thread...
Late TPI on the left, early TPI on the right.
Another early TPI throttlebody...
Note the early throttlebody doesn't have the hole and groove like the later TPI throttlebody, it has a peg just like the one for the cruise control cable, but facing towards the TB.
Yeah I can't wait to get it back on the road, the one with the old school SLP stickers on it is at my vinyl guys place right now, he's going to reproduce that original sticker for me and I'm going to have him print me up a handful of them if anybody wants them. I have always been a fan of smaller cams making power down low, and taking advantage of airspeed with the intake. It's really coming together well! I have those 24lbs injectors in the car now, and it fired and ran ok with them so I think with a bottle of techron it should be fine!
It should run good with them as long as they arent gummed up. Just a reminder, once your done tidying up things, unplug the battery for awhile, make sure the engine is cold and follow the procedures for a MAF car startup. It will idle like crap for a bit and may need to be restarted, but dont touch the throttle until it hits closed loop / fans come on. The go drive the crap out of it. It will take a hundred miles or so before it dials itself in.
I remember that startup procedure, and that helped tremendously when getting it running with the T ram on it still. I will definitely run it for atleast 100 miles before I touch anything on it. and if i remember right it's about 200 miles back up to your place from my shop, it could get a real nice drive to dial itself in headed black north if you want it back all dialed in 😜😜😜 I'd make you a hell of a deal to get your beloved camaro back to ya once it's turn key again!
Ran the car and did the idle procedure, set the timing to 11degrees, and it runs fantastic. The smaller cam idles so smooth you can barely notice it at an idle, the drivability it's leaps and bounds better, the stumble I was fighting is 100% gone. The car pulls awesome all the way to 6,000 and sounds great. I still need to hook up the vapor canister and I still have a few more little things to sort out, and get some miles on it but it really runs well.
i drove my Nova in to work today, so I could make room in the garage for the iroc this evening. Let her stretch her legs on the highway a bit and get some miles. Drives super smooth and nice, I love the smaller camshaft. I feel it fits the rest of the car better. Seems to all work well together now. My 7month old shop pup reggie approves of the car too. All that's really left to do now is a few plumbing clean up things, and hook the vapor canister back up, I also need to check the fuel pressure, but it's not a standard -4an pressure port, so I need to get an adapter for my gauge. But none the less it's a cruiser again. Had to do a differential check on it today, it works! Lays black patches as long as you keep your foot on the skinny pedal!
Last edited by charlie6178; 08-03-2018 at 11:28 PM.
Lookin' Snazzy! The engine bay is so clean, it'd be hard to resist cutting back the fuel hard lines, and sneaking the fuel up the firewall to the rail.
Charlie, post up a video once you get everything dialed in.The tires on the car are going on 20 years old, take a video of burning them down! Put a decent set of fresh rubber on it and it will handle much better. If you take it to the track, please post a video of what it runs.
Thanks guys, I will post up a time slip as soon as I get one. I ordered longer wheel studs for it so I can put my drag radials from my other car on it, I won't make it to the track with it this weeks it hopefully next week I will.
For posterity, what do you think it will run in the 1/4 mile? I'm going out on a limb and saying 12.8's at 106 MPH once you get a couple of passes under your belt.
07-09-2018, 12:41 AM
