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Hello Forum Members! I have been involved with a 6 year project of restoring my late nephew's 90 Formula. This car means the world to me, and although it's been a frustrating journey finding parts and having money to put this back together, along with engine work, I now believe I have located someone to do some dent work and give my multi colored Formy a paint job. Again, my funds are few and far between but I was quoted $4500 for dent repair and paint, including door jams, under the hood etc. The painter said he would need to take the hood down to bare metal. The hood, nose, right front fender all came from donors. The rest of the car had been repainted a long time ago and is 1 color. He is saying that it wouldn't really be necessary to take the rest of it down to bare metal, that the current paint and clear coat would serve just as well as primer. I realize we get what we pay for in life, and he said he is cutting me a break with pricing due to the sentimental journey I have been on with this car. I really can't afford a 10k paint job. I want him to do the work, yet I am nervous. Will this short cut be detrimental for the life expectancy of this new paint job? It's been such a long road and I am very excited to have it returned to its original flame metallic red color! I welcome any thoughts or opinions. Thanks in advance!
Flame red is my favorite.. I went through this fairly recently.. I went back to my hometown to a guy I knew restores big money cars and has done award winning work.
I told him I just wanted it to look factory new and be a high quality job that I could be proud to take to shows, cruise nights, etc. I was a fan of his work growing up and was nervous for the quote.. I ended up getting a $10k job for thousands less.. (I offered a cash discount as well). He didn’t have much bodywork to do. The biggest thing was fixing the warp and stress cracks in the front spoiler and somehow saving all the factory emblems. Any parts I wanted switched out I had to buy and have sent there. I had to buy the decal kit too from Phoenix Graphics which was not cheap.
He asked for half the money up front and said he’d work on it when he had time.. Unfortunately it took around 9 months but that was part of the deal. I didn’t want any jams painted because I wanted to keep the original decals and the jams match perfectly..
I wasn’t sure what to expect, but people have asked if it was a $20k job. Everyone says the car looks brand new. I am so glad I went through with it. He didn’t strip it all the way down, but it is also the same color. He said it wouldn’t have made a difference.. maybe changing colors is different.
It sounds like this guy is going to throw you a bone and give you more for your money. You could end up with a paint job that looks like a $10k job, especially if the guy is known for being meticulous and has high standards.
I did end up paying a little more than the initial quote because he said the Flame Red Metallic was more expensive than he thought it would be..
If your guy disassembles the car and bakes the paint on it will be better than the factory paint. Also the flex additive will prevent bumpers from cracking like the 80s paint did.
You can always get paint correction in the future to remove defects, orange peel, etc..
What kind of booth does the guy have? What kind of paint do they use?
My guy uses these paint lines
Diamont for American
Glasurite for European
House of Kolor for Harley Davidsons and Custom Paint Works
And has a Nova Verte downdraft booth
I think $4500 gets you an above average paint job to begin with..
I made a document with images of all the details I expected them to get right. Especially for emblem and decal placement..
Ok im a custom painter, and this is my latest custom job. Even on paint jobs this extreme, there is no reason to strip the parts to bare metal, plastic, etc. It would be most crucial to strip in places that wear the most, such as door jambs, door hinges, under hood, etc.....but as far as the entire car, its really unnecessary as long as the paint is in good condition. BUT, since its been painted once already, i would definately sand the **** out of it with 320 paper and seal the entire carI would use a mil thickness gauge to check paint thickness, too
Oh, and also..... today's paints flex......A LOT. Flex additive is unheard of these days. I'm a painter in a body shop (PPG certified) and paint cars every single day and haven't used flex additive for years and years and years.
Oh, and also..... today's paints flex......A LOT. Flex additive is unheard of these days. I'm a painter in a body shop (PPG certified) and paint cars every single day and haven't used flex additive for years and years and years.
Well whatever makes it so you can flex painted bumpers and they don’t crack is awesome and was missing big time in the 80s..
These cars would get stress cracks from highway driving and temperature changes back in the day..
Thanks so much for the encouraging remarks. The guy is very meticulous. He did work on the infamous Optimus Truck and last weekend I was able to see 3 different vehicles in person that he painted, all of which were impressive to me. This too would be a cash deal, paying in 3 installments. I need to double check about the kind of paint. I asked and he told me, but now I forgot! He is also going to do the graphics for me, which I plan to purchase at Phoenix, and he is also going to install and paint the wrap around spoiler, which is currently black. I need to ask him about seals since I bought them years ago at A-1, just waiting for when it got painted before installing. I want to go directly to his shop to see his setup and see him in action. When I met him it was at a street rod show, so I want to check out his digs. He's young, hungry and eager to get his business rolling. He opened his shop 1.5 years ago. I found out about him through his brother who did work at my home. Anyway, really appreciate your input. I am very excited that it is has finally come to this point. I must have talked with at least 10 shop owners, none of which wanted to do the work because the bread and butter for them these days are insurance claims and they simply do not want to take on the work. So I have been in a mode of desperation for about 3 years now, getting turned down and hitting dead ends on leads that others gave me. I finally have someone willing to step up and I just needed a sounding board to make sure I wasn't missing something here...
Ok im a custom painter, and this is my latest custom job. Even on paint jobs this extreme, there is no reason to strip the parts to bare metal, plastic, etc. It would be most crucial to strip in places that wear the most, such as door jambs, door hinges, under hood, etc.....but as far as the entire car, its really unnecessary as long as the paint is in good condition. BUT, since its been painted once already, i would definately sand the **** out of it with 320 paper and seal the entire carI would use a mil thickness gauge to check paint thickness, too
Really appreciate this input, especially coming from your perspective with your experience. The blue on the car is in pretty decent condition, with just a few glitches here and there that need to be addressed. He inspected it and felt that based on what he saw, there wouldn't be any need to strip it. The back bumper is peeling off in a spot, but as for the rest of the blue color, it's good. There is also a crack on deck lid where the spoiler and 3rd brake light had been removed and evidently welded shut. He is going to address that as well, and will be remounting the spoiler/light anyway. Thanks for chiming in here. It helps to read everyone's input!
I also had a hard time finding a shop that had time for paint restoration on a classic car when they have all the insurance work rolling in that doesn’t have as high standards..
That’s why mine took so long.. I was a fan of my guy’s work and he only does a handful of custom/classic/muscle cars every year and does it because that’s what he enjoys doing even though the insurance work keeps the lights on..
It sounds like you found a good paint guy and a good deal to me
It sounds like a good deal to me. I just went through something similar with regard to getting a good deal, and questioning whether or not that meant I'd regret not saving up for a better job in the long run. -I'm THRILLED with the paintjob.
I think the thing to remember is that most paint jobs from the factory, either today or back in the 80's aren't/weren't perfect. Most the flawless paintjobs you see at shows aren't perfect either. I'm not saying to cut corners or to cheap out, but everyone is so critical about perfect techniques when you discuss it, yet I've seen some great paintjobs where things maybe weren't done quite as good as another, yet you could never tell.
The guy who painted my car said as long as he didn't blatantly cut corners and skip certain steps, I'd get a really nice, solid paintjob that I could be proud of, and many people would never know the difference. That has proven to be the case.
It sounds like a good deal to me. I just went through something similar with regard to getting a good deal, and questioning whether or not that meant I'd regret not saving up for a better job in the long run. -I'm THRILLED with the paintjob.
I think the thing to remember is that most paint jobs from the factory, either today or back in the 80's aren't/weren't perfect. Most the flawless paintjobs you see at shows aren't perfect either. I'm not saying to cut corners or to cheap out, but everyone is so critical about perfect techniques when you discuss it, yet I've seen some great paintjobs where things maybe weren't done quite as good as another, yet you could never tell.
The guy who painted my car said as long as he didn't blatantly cut corners and skip certain steps, I'd get a really nice, solid paintjob that I could be proud of, and many people would never know the difference. That has proven to be the case.
I am hoping to feel the same way. I certainly feel better now after reading remarks here. I just wanted to make sure that a critical step wasn't being skipped(not stripping down the entire car), that I would be kicking myself for. In the scheme of things, $4500 is a great price considering what some guys pay for their paint jobs, yet it is a lot of money to me. In my circumstances I am unable to afford a paint job that costs 5 figures. It would probably be another 5 year wait to have that kind of money saved. I just want to feel proud when I take it out instead of parking at the other end of the lot when I go to car shows!😁
I also had a hard time finding a shop that had time for paint restoration on a classic car when they have all the insurance work rolling in that doesn’t have as high standards..
That’s why mine took so long.. I was a fan of my guy’s work and he only does a handful of custom/classic/muscle cars every year and does it because that’s what he enjoys doing even though the insurance work keeps the lights on..
It sounds like you found a good paint guy and a good deal to me
This guy does insurance work also to supplement his income. He juggles multiple projects too so the plan is for me to drop off the car at the end of September and he said I will have it back by February. Hoping it is worth the wait!
Not a bad price quote. Be prepared for price creep, though.
Quality paint (red) alone will be $800 or more by itself. Properly getting out all the door dings will rack up hours. I didn't go down to bare metal in all places, but I'm original owner and was never touched/painted, previously.
I used Spies Hecker factory red. Had a friend do all the body, primer, and sanding ($6k), then took to the best place in town to be sprayed ($1100 material, $900 labor + tax= $2100 - that's just spraying the paint, 3 coats of clear).
Thread is here: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...ody-paint.html
I've posted that picture numerous times on this website as it illustrates my point perfectly; You have no idea how many times your car has been painted. That picture is of the nose of the bumper just below the emblem on a 1991 camaro. Dagwood mentioned using a tool to check the thickness of the paint(s) and that's a great idea but I still think it's a roll of the dice as to whether or not the the underlying paint was/still is in good shape. The thickness gauge also can not tell the difference between 3 or 4 layers of paint and a single layer of filler and paint. There is also the issue of what if the previous paintjob didn't have good prep and the previous painter thought all the rust was gone but it wasn't? There is a current thread where the member posted that exact problem. My advice stays the same, media blast all the metal parts and take a dual action sander to the flexible parts. If you really cannot afford that you would need to take a spot or two on each panel down the base surface to determine how many layers of paint are present.
You may also be able to save money on paint. DuPont and PPG both have different levels of paints. The differences are in sprayability, solids, UV protection, hardness, etc.
Most body shops that do insurance work use the bottom line paints. DuPont Nason series is good stuff and will last ten years.
Good Luck on the paint Laura! I've known you and this car for a long time, and I'm super happy to see it nearing another milestone in the completion of the car!
Paint is something you can spend endless money on. the prep is really what counts and that is what costs money. If I had the money and time for a really good paint job I would have the car dustless blasted down to the metal do all the repair and straightening. Spray with primer filler and sand it straight and paint it in a booth. Once the prep is done any competent spray gun man can put down good paint.
After seeing your pics....and having been through it myself....doing all the sanding and prep, I don't envy your current state of things!!! LOL ....BUT...it's worth every minute and penny spent when it rolls out all nice and shiny!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks, that's what I am counting on! Hopefully my light is at the end of the tunnel!
glad it started!
when my paint guy sent me pics like that I was psyched.. He said he usually doesn’t send pics of the car all apart during prep because most people would freak out, but knew I worked in the business..
Mine was done a couple months after I got pics like that sent..
Thanks guys...so far the experience has been much greater than I ever could have imagined. I can't even begin to describe how it feels, and when i see it reassembled...WOW!
Ok, guys, nothing is EVER easy with our beloved 3rd gens! I am looking for some opinions/advice from this very knowledgeable group...
My car's paint is finished with the exception of the rear wrap around spoiler, which to me, completes the look of this car.
The painter just told me that the primer that he put on it has all cracked. It happened when he was "shaping" it. He sanded things down, put special flex additives in, yet this still happened. He said he is going to talk to his paint rep to see if there's something they can offer to help this.
Frustrated, for I have obsessed for 7 years over getting that spoiler back on.
I am welcoming advice/suggestions on how to remedy this, if possible. I paid a lot of money to find that spoiler and have stored it for 7 years, waiting for this moment. I didn't want to buy the aftermarket ones that I know Hawks have...would like an original part(this one which took me a very long time to find), as is everything on this car as it has been put together piece by piece.
The ones that were fixed under warranty were replaced with one not painted, in glorious black rubber.
What prep work did they do? What filler, primer, etc did they use? The best bet is to strip it down to the rubber and use adhesion promoter and flexible primer they use on flexible polyurethane bumper covers. Then use flex agent on all top coats if you are not using urethane paint. You will have to accept some waviness as any body filler or filler primer will crack on it. The issue there is flex agent usually changes to tone of the color some.
Honestly if you want a show quality job the factory spoiler isn't going to give it to you, if you are going for concourse then they would expect the standard issues with the factory part. It's more or less like trying to paint tires. If you want one that will last, and look like a mirror I'm sorry to tell you buy the fiberglass one, have your body guy spend the time to contour the leading edge to match the rubber one (that is really the only visual difference) and be happy that you saved 25lbs and the paint will not crack off in a few years.
You could do a thin fiberglass shell around it, then paint but then you loose authenticity and even then that could crack as the rubber expands from the metal rusting inside it.
FWIW -- I've had two factory spoilers on my car before I bought the fiberglass one. The original one split all the way down each arm, and one I found in near perfect condition in a junk yard circa 1999. I tried painting that one and was never happy with the results as it always seemed to crack at the arm roots. If you do decide to keep the factory one. Do all the prep work, install it on the hatch but put some spacers under the bottom main part. Prime and paint in place you can't get the thing back on the window frame clips without flexing it some.
Got the car back last night...REALLY want to get this spoiler on...that will complete the look for sure. Just need to get this issue about the paint for it figured out.
Will do when I get the chance. Had to hustle to get it last night, and garaged since we are getting sleet, 3-5" of snow, etc! Got it and tucked it away just in the nick of time!
So is the winter project, sanding, buffing, polishing the wheels so they are as shinny as the paint The kit from eastwood and a drill is all you need... and well about 4 (+/-3) hours a wheel. Personally if/when I re do mine again I will get them to a paintable shine and then have them professionally clear coated -- though more than likely I'm going with the 18" GTA style wheels. Or if I can talk myself into opening the wallet bigenough the vf502 or vf522 or the ones that look like formula wheels vf517... but I just don't like the idea of $4500 in wheels on a car I want to actually drive like a sports car.
06-05-2018, 01:54 PM
The kit from eastwood and a drill is all you need... and well about 4 (+/-3) hours a wheel. Personally if/when I re do mine again I will get them to a paintable shine and then have them professionally clear coated -- though more than likely I'm going with the 18" GTA style wheels. Or if I can talk myself into opening the wallet bigenough the vf502 or vf522 or the ones that look like formula wheels vf517... but I just don't like the idea of $4500 in wheels on a car I want to actually drive like a sports car.