fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

I recently switched to Carb from TPI. I've decided to do a TCC lockup but try to stay on a cheap budget (under $20). This means no premade kits obviously. I have certain unique requirements that will not allow me to just run the jumper wire only. My transmission has been modified to not kickdown out of 4th to 3rd under any throttle position and allow full WOT Upshifts into 4th. I first thought of just manually downshifting out of OD, but after talking with Dana he mentioned the ACT brand 9.5" TC I'm using has a small clutch package in it and will burn out if I forget to downshift and hit WOT a few times. I've drove 350+ miles without lockup and have never seen the transmission get warmer than 165*, but I'm only averaging around 15 MPG. So I'm not having cooling issues, but better mileage and less heat on a transmission is always nice.

After reading Apeiron's TCC Control sticky I've decided I really like the idea of the adjustable vacuum switch, indicator light to show lockup, and maintaining the brake switch. Due to my situation I've decided against using the toggle switch as it might cause me trouble and converter damage if I forget and leave it in manually locked position.

I have yet to test the transmission yet to verify if I need to change out the 4th gear pressure switch. I have my fingers crossed hoping that I have a N.O. one already.

Obviously the biggest downfall of this budget TCC Lockup build is the vacuum switch, especially an adjustable one. Well I believe I have found a solution for that. After reviewing the TCI TCC Lockup Kit I noticed they included the name brand of the adjustable vacuum switch in there instructions. "World Magnetics" which I found their website http://www.worldmagnetics.com/ from there I found their switch website http://www.designflexswitches.com/ My eyes lite up when I saw "FREE SAMPLE SWITCH OFFER". I've requested a PSF102 (adjustable vacuum switch) with a low port 3/16" ID and lugs to bolt it to the firewall. I even requested it to be setup to 8.0" to 10.0" set point like stated in the TCI directions, then I can adjust it later if needed. I'm now waiting patiently for my free switch to arrive, but thought I would throw a heads up for anyone else looking into a cheap TCC kit. More to come once I get my switch.

They emailed me back and requested a schematic so I sent them Aperion's from the sticky without the toggle switch. They told me PSF102 even though it was a switched ground could see the 0.5 amps and was not the best for the application. They recommended the PSF-109 which appears to be rated to 15A 125/250V AC.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

man i went to carb and all i did for now is put in a toggle switch.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

That's fine for you, but like I said if I forget to unlock it while in 4th mine doesn't downshift and I could burn out the clutch plate in a expensive torque converter, which I don't really want to chance.

davep_96

Im very interested in how this turns out. I also need a tcc kitsince i have no computer in the car anymore (carb'd car). I'll stay tuned and hopefully we can have a good write up on how to make this when you're done.

Anyone know how much the actual kits cost on the cheap end?

SLEEPER 86

think i paid 80 bucks for mine from jegs. if i remember it was a tci kit.

duckmanquacker

I recomend staying away from the B&M kit, several hotrod friends have tried them and had to have their trans re-rebuilt. the tci kits are worth their weight and so is the ones that use the vacuum switch like posted above in the 1st post.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/lockup.htm

Gumby

nice work !!!

camaronewbie

Problrm with that article is the age, and the change in prices. The vacuum switch (last pic) from GM now (10 years later) is $40 on it's own, and the pigtail for it is another $28 - that's already almost $70 - with the TCI kit being ~$90, there's really no point in fitting your own pieces.

I tried that GM vacuum switch, and didn't like it - car drove weird. Maybe the low vacuum cutoff switch and the brake cancelling switch would have helped, but again, more expense and complications.

I just manually lock with a switch and the TCI internals, I only lock above 50mph when I know I'm not stopping anytime soon, and 3 years later no issues at all.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Brake canceling isn't more expense that's included in the stock setup. It just needs to be retained in the wiring. IMO I won't feel comfortable driving on the street without it. Under hard enough bog (OD with lockup and smashing the brakes) I would think the motor could stall which means no power steering or brakes during a high speed swerve.

As for switching the transmission case connector that looks like way to much work. I plan on just splicing into the wires, solder, and taping. That way if I ever do go back to a FI system all I have to do is desolder and tape them again.

Another point it's getting harder to find vacuum switches new. GMPartsDirect.com no longer has them. Most dealerships do not have them. Which leaves going to the junkyard and pulling one yourself then hoping it works, buying one off eBay for $40+, or spending $70 to $170 depending on the lockup kit.

I didn't mean to start a huge discussion I just wanted to let other members know that I think I have found a reliable free source for vacuum switches and adjustable vacuum switches, which is the most expensive part of these kits. I plan on trying to do a low price TCC lockup build with all the features the high dollar kits offer + some. It's also possible to get free switches that are compatiable with fluids such as oil and fuel. So it would be easy to make a low cost safety adjustable psi switch kit too.

camaronewbie

Oh - I know - was just relating some of my experiences.

The TCI kit I got I ordered about 6 months before I needed. Then when I finally did install it, the vacuum switch they provided was defective and broke the first day (the hose nipple broke off) - so since it had been so long, no return/replacement, and I was screwed - that was 3 years ago. Last winter, I tried the GM vac switch in an attempt to be a 'good boy' and make things right (local dealer ordered for me - this was just last Nov), but like I said it was weird and I took it back out.

I have one time "forgot" to unlock - but on purpose as a test just to see what would happen - I never came to a complete stop, but went from 70 mph to 20mph rather quickly - the car bogged some, but remained running.

Like I said, I only use mine on the highway basically, only during periods longer than 5 minutes that I know I won't be stopping. It's hard to forget about unlocking for me - you can just feel a slight difference with TC locked when speeds on my car get below 50mph, so it's kinda an 'early warning' for me.

If I have to stop that fast (ie some idiot pulled out in front of me), the tranny is my least concern - it's a cheap fix compared to bent frames, nose cone replacement, etc.

I'm very interested to see what you come up with - especially the wiring and using the stock tranny internals. In stock form, the ECM locked the converter just fine, but I've searched and read for hours and haven't yet seen anyone do it by simply rewiring the stock setup with a vacuum switch or toggle WITHOUT having to remove the pan. So I'll stay 'tuned in'

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Tested my transmission last weekend. Line coming out of transmisison was grounded... as soon as I cut off the line back to the ECM it was no longer grounded though, so that should mean N.O. 4th gear switch I would assume. Soldered my 2 wires on and put it back together.

Got my package today. Hard to see but it's a stepped size inlet on the low port side. Didn't come with the exact lugs like shown on there website, but I can take a piece of aluminum or steel and make a bracket easily enough. The adjuster is inside the hose barb end. They even calibrated it to 10" HG and stamped it on the top of the housing.
Quick specs:
Adjustable Micro Switch
rated at 5 amp @ 125V or 1/4 amp at 250V (didn't see a 12v rating but I'm sure it'll be fine I'll throw a small fuse inline on the prong from the light just incase something gets crossed that way I pop the fuse not the switch)

2 prongs on bottom and another pong on the back. Prong on back and one of the bottom are linked so that's the side I'm putting the ground output to the indicator light on the back and the same one on the bottom to the TCC lockup.

This way when 4th gear occurs it should provide ground to switch and if I'm at 10" HG or higher vacuum (part throttle) it'll also be connected through the switch to the TCC circuit and close the ground loop on the indicator light. Open the throttle up and drop below 10" HG the switch opens and drops out the ground so the TCC will unlock in 4th.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

just ordered my switch. same one. when you get yours working lemme know. please if you would put up a diagram on how you do it.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Sure thing. I got mine installed. I made a bracket out of aluminum angle stock for it and mounted it to the driverside fender area. I figured I can run the hose over and zip tie it to the brake vacuum hose since that's the area where my vacuum canister is mounted anyways.

Tested it the prongs on the bottom are N.C. or N.O depending on which you use with the one on the backside. I have <$20 in my project now. I had to go buy an red 2-wire indicator light. The one that came with the Hurst Roll Control didn't have a seperate ground wire so I was afraid of accidentally grounding it. I bought a inline 3 amp fuse too that way if something gets crossed between the light and the ground for the switch it should pop that instead. I also had to buy some vacuum hose, but AZ didn't have any so I just bought fuel hose instead. Should get it all working tomorrow.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Wiring is done. Works great! Switch @ 10" HG worked fine out of the box, but nice to know I have tuneability if needed. I feel like I have now switched to carb without giving up gas mileage. I now can cruise at 55 MPH at 2000 RPM compared to the 2600 or 2800 it was before. Switch unlocks if throttle goes shut or around third throttle. The converter also unlocks if brakes are applied or the transmission shifts down into 3rd gear. No toggle switches to worry about. Looking forward to seeing my MPG before it was 15.

$20 later and I have a fully adjustable vacuum lockup kit that's better IMO than the TCI $70 kit. I could have done this cheaper if I didn't use the indicator light. The light, fuses, inline fuse and etc were about $13 of my final cost. I had spare wiring and connectors already in my garage so I didn't have to buy any of that.

Okay so setup goes just like Aperion discribed in his sticky I had a N.O. 4th gear switch, don't just go hooking up wires until you check which kind of switch you have already. That's covered in the sticky also.

When I first checked my 4th gear ground (Pin B on the transmission connector) with ECM wire still hooked up it show'd Normally Closed (grounded). I checked it on the transmisison it was Normal Open there. I cut that wire off to disconnect it from the ECM, I don't know if that was just a faultly harness for me or if it was suppose to be that way. I soldered a new wire in and ran that up to the switch.

Since I wanted an indicator light I used a splice into the +12 volt Brake Switch Wire (Pin A mine was purple colored). This provides the power for lockup. If you're not braking it has +12 volts if you touch the brake it drops the power to unlock. I just spliced into this I didn't cut it because you still need this going to the transmission. This will provide the power for indicator light. So if you touch the brakes you'll see the light go out, which means converter has been unlocked.

Finally Pin D on the transmission is the switched ground you want to use to your switch so it will ground from Pin B to D. I spliced into this, but going back and looking at it now I could have just cut it and soldered a new wire in. Run this wire up to your switch also.

Now the switch hookup. You want this to be a on ported vacuum source that way when carb butterflies go shut (no throttle) there is no vacuum so the converter will unlock so it doesn't bog any. I used a t-fitting since vacuum advance distributor was already on that and used some zip ties to hold the lines tight for now I'll get nice small hose clamps eventually for it.

Switch hookup Pin B needs to go to the normally open circuit on the bottom of the switch. It was the one closest to the vacuum line inlet. I recommend checking it on yours with a voltimeter to make sure they don't change the design or put something together backwards.

I put Pin D and another wire on the same female connector and put in the COM port on the back of the switch. The 2nd wire is for your indicator light you can leave it out if you don't want one.

I also included a 3 amp inline fuse on the ground between the light and switch that way if something ever gets crossed it should pop the fuse before it gets to the switch.

That's basically the wiring for mine. Check out the sticky Apeiron did a great job with the wiring diagrams and providing all the details, which was the only reason why I decided to do this.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

ok i got this now. been hurt and not working. goin to hook this up tomorrow.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Good luck. Hardest part is testing to make sure you have the proper solenoid in the transmission and then getting your wires crimped or soldered.

Mine's still working good. It shifts into 4th gear around 25-30 mph in town but the motor has enough torque it pulls around fine even at 1600 RPM or so.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

ive been lucky with the car so far on things. im hoping i have the correct switch already.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

i checked my switch and found it to be open. cut the blue and tan/black wire. ran the wires from there up to my switch. ran the vacuum line over to ported vacuum. took it for a ride and it seems to be working. need to get it up on the freeway and then i will know. for sure. if it isnt then i will either need to adjust it or maybe i was suppose to leave the blue wire together and splice into it.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Not sure which is the blue wire. Shouldn't matter as long as you don't cut the +12v Brake wire. The tranmission should ground the one wire once it gets into 4th gear with the proper switch and the other wire is just to feed the ground back into the transmission for the TCC to function.

Mine was apparent immediately once lockup was functioning, but I have a 9.5" converter that flashes around 3000 RPM so there was quiet a bit of slipping going on without it. I thought I would improve gas mileage, but I recently just got my 500 miles on the new motor so I've been running it hard up to around 6800 RPMs, which doesn't help gas mileage at all.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

d pin is tan/black wire. a is purple. b is blue. now i know it worked before when grounding the aldl wires. i checked it with a meter and the b pin had no continuity to ground--open. if all else fails ill reconnect the wires at the trans and then connect the wires i had to a switch on the dash. i know that one worked. yeah being that mine is stock it is a little harder to tell. i was able to tell on the freeway for sure when going about 65 since then the rpm,s wouldnt climb much at all. ill check it again tomorrow.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

i got it finally. they must not have set the switch up. i had to adjust it a few times. now it works. i even ran a couple wires in the car as a jumper to test it. it didnt make a difference once i was cruising. i need to adjust it one more time and i think i will have it.

Pairof91rss

great thread...just about ready to drop a 355 into my 91 RS with a 305 TB and 700R4. Wanna keep the tranny, so Im sure I'll have lots of questions for you guys.
The engine has a Holley street dominator intake, and a Holley 650 dbl pump carb with an HEI dizzy.
Are you running a mech pump or did you keep the in tank pump and use a regulator?

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

i kept the intank pump and used a dizzy with return regulator.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

I'm using OEM Pump with 106k+ miles on it. I used OEM rubber lines and AN fittings to change it over then my Mallory 4309 return style regulator. Seems to keep the pressure down just fine around 7 PSI cold and 6.5 PSI after heat soak. I could adjust it for less if I wanted, but was pleased with it there.

49wildbill

Don't know how old this post is but it might benefit someone hooking up the 700 R4 lockup, I am very happy with the TOTAL ELECTRIC EXTERNAL LOCKUP KIT BY LBP. $39.95 on E-Bay Simple to install, no pressure switch or vacuum to mess with.

zed-028

49wildbill, what was involved and how long did it take you with that kit?