jwfirebird

iTrader: (2)

the filters are pretty standard like 2 or 3 inches tall. but doesnt look like that air cleaner is a drop one that is down very far. they make ones that drop down further i would think

sootie007

I stuck the Factory 2 inch tall Scott Drake air filter on there last night that came with this Hi PO FORD 289-302 air cleaner and it doesn't hit the hood now . If it was good enough for the HI PO 302 its good enough for this wimpy 305 LOL.

jwfirebird

iTrader: (2)

you put ford parts on your chevy, ugg. Im sure that against the law somewhere

sootie007

Ha ha ....y desperate times -desperate measures.....

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

lol you know it should be, but I'm guilty of it too.

I run the ford 2 speed elec. cooling fans on all of mine, and I have a ford 9" rear end in my '88.

jwfirebird

iTrader: (2)

ya im just messing around. really brand doesnt much matter, alot of it ends up aftermarket stuff gm never had anything to do with. i have a ten bolt but the housing is the only thing that was technically in a older camaro, but the rest of the goodies inside it i ordered from summit. same with the trans, etc....still have the original 6cylinder fan though it works well, and i had a custom rad made to fit the brackets/fan with the proper v8 tanks. i live in a cooler area but never had a problem, in fact the fan only needs to be on below 10 or 20mph for quite a while

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Yep, I know what you mean... Today you can build a chevy V8 engine and not have one single part made by GM on the whole thing.

With my ford 9", only thing still ford is the nodular iron third third member.
Housing and axles are moser
gears are motive
carrier/locker is Detroit locker

sootie007

Well RIP Ramjet camshaft - you were WAAAAY too mild - so the hot rodder in me says you simply have to go ...stay tuned a new stick and heads are being stabbed into the ole 305 over the next few weeks ..........building a "poser" this time lol......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYrM...ature=youtu.be

Mortorq

Hey Sootie,

Since you have that 4:10 & a carb, & the TBI idle vacuum isn't an issue any more, what about something like the Crane 274H06 cam in a equivalent hyd roller version?? 218`/218` @ 050" & .450/450 at a slightly lumpy 106 LSA?

The choppy idle dissipates just off idle, & the total overlap isn't too much because the duration is relatively short.

From what I've researched, this cam with these specs is supposed to be quite tractable.

Just thinkin'.

sootie007

MotorQ ....going 282 282 .480 .480 on a 108 ...I got an s10 converter going in too.....don't care if its soggier than the Ramjet down low really ------but it shouldn't be ..... just want it to sound good this time around all bark no bite ......Thumpers had too much lift , Bootlegger grind too or I would have bought the smallest one of those.....will record sound clips of the new setup when done ...Im taking my time ...should be done 2-3 weeks ......cam is back ordered anyway .

So Im going from

246 256 431 451 109 to
282 282 480 480 108

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

Holy smokes, sootie!
Man, I wouldn't be messing with something as tight as the S-10 converter with that much cam, even if it were 350 cubes.
I recently went from a tight-driving 3400 converter to an S-10 converter behind a the ZZ3-cammed 350 in my pickup and the performance loss was appalling. Below half throttle, it was alright, but above that it was a waiting game for the power to come on

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Thats the ZZ3-ZZ4 cam for you, especially in a 9.4:1 engine. Bet you have the crappy Hecho en Mexico 062s on that crate engine too. Seems our crate engines were born in Mexico about the same time. My mexican 062s were only around 210 cfm @ .600.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I had a Crane 100052 in a 305 build. It was around 9:1 compression with TBI heads then switched to Vortec heads. TBI heads made more torque, Vortec heads more HP. Had it backed to a 3,000 stalled TH350 in a 1980 C10 with 2.73 gears.

sootie007

Bird Y I don't care really just going after sound this time - we shall see if its too loose or tight in this 305 ...I got it cheap so that was another reason for running it.

Fast - So how did that Crane run in the 305 for you ?

Description Item # SPM8258114431 Model # 100052
2600-3000 cruise RPM 8.75-10.0 compression ratio Good idle
272 H10 CAMSHAFT & LIFTER KIT - CH. 262-400 V8 57-

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

I understand.
Just don't take it to the dragstrip; it would be disappointing
And for street driving, any old tires will do

SouthSide2

4:10 gear, 305CID 235@ .050 max, lift for your heads..480? CR pushing 10.5 ,3500+ stall.

Just have to get it zinged up to make power.

sootie007

For the less experienced here is a standard roller cam next to the LT1 roller cam style showing the difference in dowel length ......LT1 is longer.

I got the heads off , cleaned the deck and got the new cam in the block . Plan on doing a little paint detailing down low .....need to pickup some gaskets ...taking my time .

sootie007

For the newbies side by side 081 TPI heads vs TBI 187 swirl ports ....a few differences to note .....look at the "huge" bump in the front entrance of the 187 swirl port on the right ...in the 081 TPI they smoothed that transition out more like a ramp ,look at the top of the ports of the 081 TPI head they taper slightly - must be picking up some velocity from that tapering is my guess vs the rectangular shape of the swirls , look at the 3 circular patterns in "each" port floor of the 081 TPI my guess is that those are there to intentionally add some turbulence -the 187 swirls do not have this feature....I wish I could have but I couldn't get a good picture of it because of lighting but there is a huge obstruction in the swirl port right around the valve area...so when you look at these heads in totally stock factory form its not hard to imagine why they choke things so much and how do they perform as well as they do ...again I understand guys port them and get decent gains but man it must be a lot of work....

sootie007

FWIW ...I played around with 3 cams in the 305 in DynoSim ,,,the model was setup this way Factory 89 L98 cam 257 263 .415 .430 117 , Howards .480 .480 282 282 108 , LT4 hot cam 269 278 .492 .492 112 ...2.02 int valves , 9.01 (less on purpose than 9.67)..(using hyd grind on purpose vs roller to water down numbers) , carb , dual plane ....these numbers always seem high to me on these programs ...like I said I intentionally watered things down to bring the numbers in lower...... pretty impressed with that LT4 Hot cam vs the Howards but I wanted a nasty idle and really didn't care about HP - Tq ..if I did I would go with the LT4 Hot cam .......my feeling is these numbers are too high but right at 300 hp should be a safe estimate with the Howards I would think .

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Under 4,500 rpm you won't touch the swirl ports for torque. It took a pair of ported 081s until 4,200 rpm to cross over and equal a stock 187 and the difference was not dramatic up top, but the torque loss down low was.

sootie007

Fast you are the man and back all your builds up with REAL data not hear say ...I always look forward to your posts on your combos and trust your opinions ..what effect in your personal experience does valve size have usually on these 305's ? Mine are 58 cc 2.02 .

RamIt

Don't you have to notch the cylinder wall to fit the 2.02 on the 305's bore?

sootie007

I asked about that and the guy that built these says he has done "100s" of these and claims I will not have to do anything at all to the block....as long as I am staying at .480 lift ....BUT I am going to do some VERY careful checking for interference ....somewhere on here I remember reading you will not have valve to bore interference until like the .550 and above lift range ...that thread had photos as well.....let me see if I can find that thread .

sootie007

I found it ...this jives with what the head builder told me and I am .030 .480 lift .

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ds-1-94-a.html


"Take home:
2.02" valves in 305 '601 heads on a 3.766" bore (305 bored 0.030" over) will contact the cylinder wall at about 0.505" lift - if your camshaft/rockers produce less lift than that (plus clearance) then you can run 2.02" valves ...but decisions about shrouding will be your call"


Another


2.02 valves
I have a head shop 4 doors down and have been over this with him a few times in the past, here is what i have learned from his 30+ yrs of doing heads.


305 heads can handle max 2.02 intake valves and he has installed them into 305 heads , but he says it weakens the head in his opinion and he would prefer not to go over 194/160.
__________________
Peace,
Dave
1987 Pontiac Trans-Am


And one more notice he says standard bore - not over bored 2.02's on a 305 - no machining to the block ......



"Okay here it is,
I have seen posts about 2.02's not working on 305's without cyl.wall work and couldnt understand because I have been running them for 4yrs in a standard bore 305.

Here's the info,
casting # 3998993
(mortec description ....72-73...307/350......75cc chambers
....current..350.........Goodwrench crate motors,"Hecho en Mexico",75cc chambers)

I am using them on a blown motor so the 75cc is good for me. I bought them used and with the machine work already done but this is what I know they are opened up to 2.02/1.60 ported and pinned and they work in a standard bore 305 with no machining to the block"

sootie007

Just for the hexx of it I did a clay exercise tonight as I have never done one before ..I knew it wasn't necessary with such a mild cam but while I had it apart I figured I would like to see the 2.02 valve outlines where they are in relation to the .030 305 piston 4 eyebrow reliefs ...I am totally fine at .480 .480 ....with NO head gasket in place I have ~ .215 min Pist crown - V clearance ...I am .025 in the hole .

SouthSide2

Your closer to fun, you really need a higher stall converter!

sootie007

Made some progress today putting things back together ...only got 2.5 hrs before I was pulled away ......should be able to fire it later in the week ...tried copper header gaskets this time around for the first time ever ...I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling after bolting them up ..they just aren't very thick at all- very thin ....hopefully I am wrong and they will seal well...... anybody use these type before ?


As far as head gaskets (305 with 2.02 valves) I am going thin at .015 compressed steel shim to bump the compression. 9.67 calculated (.015 gas +.025 hole 4.0 bore ) 6cc dish ....FelPro P/N 1094 is what guys have been using apparently . I will use copper spray as well.

sootie007

Misc pics this time around ....clay footprint , valley , head mark 2.02 valves ...081 TPI heads 2.02 valves .

sootie007

Finally had time and got it running today ....

sootie007

11-12 inches Vacuum in park

Crazy ticking was both leaking header gaskets..I bought the copper ones and will NEVER use them again .....replaced with composites - all sealed up now.

sootie007

Another idling

Recap Howards 305 cid 282 282 .480 108 LC p/n 180305-08
1991 305 roller, "supposedly" compression calculated to 9.67:1 ...2.02 58 cc reworked TPI heads off ebay.

Mortorq

Well Sootie, You've certainly met your goal of coming up with a totally belligerent-sounding cam!

Hat's off to your damn the torpedoes-put a big cam in a 305 anyway plan.

What's it like off the line, & under 4K or so?

My gerbil powered L03 T5 3:08 would sure be more entertaining with your style package.

Congrats to all your work.

sootie007

Thanks ...ps these copper header gaskets suck ...leaks everywhere ....replacements on the way .....MOTORQ cant drive it yet - I have to drop the converter in this weekend ...this stock converter is UNREAL tight...it would even jump into gear with my stock cam - very strange......as soon as you drop it in gear it dies like you would expect ..........I will let you know how it feels later when I drop in this looser one - hopefully Saturday or Sunday .

sootie007

Man what a pita a converter change is in this chassis ...I "may" have it done this weekend ...decided to put a corvette servo in it while I am at it .......

gmc2fst4u

sweet build thread, one question how much drilling did you have to do on the heads or did u drill some on the intake for it to adapt to the heads just wondering

sootie007

See post 31 with pic...You only have to elongate the inner mounting holes in the intake because they are at a
different angle ....

Mortorq

Hey Sootie,
Any progress on that slightly looser converter install?
Does it idle in gear now?
Happy Easter!

sootie007

MotorQ I simply haven't had ANY time ...I may get under there this weekend to finish the job...I already installed the corvette servo in it however ........

sootie007

Welll thread back from the dead ...I finally bolted in the trans and looser converter just yesterday 4-17-16 ...I have NO time with two small children anymore........should have it driving again within a week after reinstalling all the misc pieces .....J

Mortorq

Well hey Sootie,
Glad to see you're enjoying (kind of) your 3rd gen again.
Understand about small children time demands! You have your priorities straight.

sootie007

Tx MotorQ ! Well I took it for a spin and its full of leaks , ticks etc from sitting so long ` 11 months embarrassingly ! Those stupid copper header gaskets leak everywhere even after retightening - literally on every port as evidenced by the exhaust gas leakage marks on them when I got them out - I would never buy them again ! So I pulled off the drivers side header last night and replaced it with a conventional header gasket . I will do the passenger side tonight .


The timing cover -oil pan gasket seal is now leaking so I will have to redo it . I already bought the gasket set yesterday At Advance to do it with .....FEL PRO TCS 45121 $9.99


FelproTiming Cover Gasket Set
Part No TCS 45121
1 YR REPLACEMENT IF DEFECTIVE


Advance

sootie007

sootie007

My exhaust leaks are sealed with new replacement composition header gaskets ...I will never buy these copper ones ever again ...look at the leaks .

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

The best gaskets I've run with headers are the GM production embossed multi-layer shim gaskets used with factory manifolds. They never fail, and unless you're running cheap headers with easily distorted thin flanges, they don't leak.
You need to drill one extra hole through them for the rearmost header bolt.

sootie007

Hey Bird long time no hear ...thanks maybe next time around I will give those specific gaskets a try .....fyi as you can see I am finally back on the car after a long hiatus (kids) . I ended up going with a 10 " 3000 converter since I cracked the tranny open and I didnt want to take a chance with that tighter new S10 converter on a 282 duration at 108 . I also dropped a corvette servo in it . Now I am currently in the process of taking her down yet again to take the front cover off to address a bad oil leak that cropped up while sitting where the pan meets the cover in the front corner . Its always something ! Car felt great on the short run I took it on the other day ....I will shoot a video after I get the leak fixed...then its on to detailing and dressing wires etc ......

1988CamaroSC

iTrader: (2)

I hear ya with the kids. But i also need to wake up this solid running 305 so i can pull into shows with pride. Subbing to this.....someday im going to copy you word for word lol. Sounds sick.

sootie007

Idling .....my pit crew had to jump in there .....

sootie007

Little update 12 - 15 - 2016.... I have been running the Summit Racing 600 cfm vac secondary carb for about 500 miles. The other day on a "rare" pleasurable cruise the car started to die on me ....I had to keep the rpms up over 3500 the whole way home to limp it home and it immediately died in the driveway -YEEEEAAAH no towing bill . I pulled the air cleaner off and to make a long story short it looks like the front needle and seat hung open flooding the engine out . I have a screwon summit 40 micron filter before the carb and additionally the carb also has two built in screens at each fuel inlet to the bowls ????? Just kind of surprised me something is hanging that front needle and seat open with all that filtration in there . I will have to disassemble it and let you know what I find . I have a funky looking Street Demon 1901 - 625 cfm / vac - goggle valve secondaries on the shelf with the phenolic body I may throw on just to see how it likes it ...will let you know if I go that route ......

zed-028

sounds like too much fuel pressure, do you have a regulator on it?

sootie007

Yes its got a regulator 6.5 psi.....