Saxondale

iTrader: (2)

This message is to 65panhead. I share this here in hope of facilitating a cordial communication exchange moving forward and beyond our exchanges to date.

Hi 65panhed,

As you know I recently purchased your second 1983/1984 High Output dual snorkel air cleaner. You sold the first one to UNCLE TOM a year ago. He was happy with it and commended you in a separate post. I agree with UNCLE TOM that you sold him a nice air cleaner. However, the air cleaner you sold me is in poor condition for several reasons listed later in this message.

We have had ongoing communication via PM and emails, and each has trended toward an accusatory tone to me, with your most recent reply as follows:

"Just because you found a better one means nothing to me. I don't sell junk! I f I did how long would I have a reputation worth standing on? I'm sorry that you don't like the one I sent you but again, just because you found a nicer one does not make me liable to accept return of the one you don't like. How would I know if some of the parts have been changed out or if it was damaged in shipping?"

In anticipation of improved communication I do not think it is necessary to share your other messages.

First of all, let me clarify yours is the third (3rd) of four (4) air cleaners I purchased. The first (1st) is an excellent example that was sold new in my Z28. The second (2nd) was purchased locally in September and is typical of these examples and very restorable (paint removal, new paint, new sticker). Yours is the third (3rd). A fourth (4th) should arrive shortly via a forum purchase. I fully anticipate it will be in restorable condition.

Regarding the air cleaner you sold to me, your Thirdgen sale posts are attached as 1.pdf and 2.pdf, which state the following information:

1. “nice air cleaner”
2. “all functions work”

Your “all functions work” sale post did not include photos. Therefore, I requested photos and you referred me to your previous sale post containing the statement “nice air cleaner.”

Your photos are attached as 3.png and 4.png, showing the air cleaner sitting on a tile floor.

In your photos it appears to be a relatively nice air cleaner. There are some waves in the passenger snorkel, but they do not appear serious. I duplicated one of those photos with it sitting on a bench in my house, attached as 5.png. The waves appear to be in the same locations as your photo, except that they do appear more pronounced in the better lighting. The lid is also the same lid.

Additional photos I have attached do not show a “nice air cleaner” or “all functions work.”

1. The passenger snorkel was at some point significantly bent beyond feasible restoration. It was pulled out, which appears to be represented by the current condition.
2. The passenger vacuum assembly is broken and the acuator rod firmly fixed in the assembly. It does not retract. It was likely damaged when the snorkel was damaged.
3. The lid was damaged in an apparent separate incident on a critical contact area with the air filter. Something heavy bent that location, because it is thick steel and resistant to bending. Someone banged it back out relatively straight, but it is still not smooth underneath at the air filter contact point, and was bent severely enough that the outside remains dented.

I hope this post can facilitate cordial communication and resolution. I paid you $175, including $40 shipping. I have been giving you the benefit of doubt that you think this is a good air cleaner. Therefore, as you know, I have requested to return the air cleaner in exchange for only the purchase price of $135. That means you will have the same air cleaner you sold, which you can then sell to someone else. I will cover the $40 cost of you shipping it to me, and another $40 cost of me returning it to you.

Thank you
Rich

65panhed

The first two pictures are my pictures. I have no problem claiming them. As you can see there is at least one more air cleaner at play here. This was a functional air cleaner for an L69 305. I did not advertise a/c as new.
Saxondale emailed me to the effect that he had located one on ebay that was nicer for $150.00. That had just ended. I then asked for pics and waited a coupe of days. the first pics I could open are within this post. I don't sell junk nor do I advertise as better than the actual shape.
The above damage was not present when a/c was shipped USPS priority mail.
Am I to be held liable when Saxondale wants a newer part? Has there been some embellishment of damage to the unit? Here are some problems he listed:
Air cleaner turned out to be more beat up than I anticipated. I did see some wrinkling in the original photo on passenger snorkel. But even the lid is banged up and bent and doesn't sit true on the base. At some point someone crudely hammered on it to try to straighten it. The driver snorkel has issues with the manifold heat riser door not matching up with the opening. Won't close fully. And both pins for the vacuum doors were half out. The thing must have really been tossed around or on a junk pile at some point in its life.

Thank you for your effort and communication to get it here. Rich

Hi Bill,

I'll to straighten it, fix the doors, find another lid, strip it, paint it, new sticker, and tuck away until someone needs one to restore their L69.

All in perspective. After seeing it last night I turned to my wife and said at least I have my health. Just paid way too much. Nothing more. I'm still interested in saving the L69 specific parts, and even this one, just have less money now for that interest. There is a nice straight one finishing up on Ebay for the same price. That would have been one to get. Such is life.

Thanks,
Rich
I do not deny that this unit is not new But the claim that the pins were half out if the snorkel doors is not evident and a new decal I mean really. Was or were there embellishments to the damage to the a/c? I don't know either.

Hi Bill,


I'm sorry about the delay.


I currently have three air cleaners including 1) the one on my car (in storage), 2) the one from your car, and 3) one from a young gentleman here in MN named Colton. Colton installed and open element air cleaner and some other aftermarket parts, so wanted his parts to go to a good home. Colton's is not perfect, but is restorable and serves as a good comparison to the one from your Z.

All I can say is that I am sorry he is not happy, and to look at ebay more for other a/c units and to check out their prices and conditions.


Photos of Coltons and yours are uploaded in the two attached links.


https://photos.google.com/album/AF1Q...E7F18eoRNol9Tz



https://photos.google.com/album/AF1Q...pRMpqBnISIgQF5





I gave yours a good look today under some better lighting. The warp I thought was in your cover was not there. It does sit level. But of course the crude pounding out of the cover dent is still obvious. But the light also highlighted the vacuum assembly on the passenger side is broken. The diaphragm is stuck and does not retract into the cylinder. The stuck rod is visible in some photos.


I don't know if you can find anyone to buy this one. I wish you the best of luck. But it is too abused and broken for me to try to save.


Gratefully, Rich

65panhed

http://www.ebay.com/itm/82-84-Camaro...hWSnKe&vxp=mtr

Saxondale

iTrader: (2)

Well clearly this is going nowhere. I am content with this ending now. Your post satisfies my refund request.

65panhed

Saxondale I am still working this out with myself. Do I let you attempt to bully me to give you your money back or do I stand by my words. If you wanted new you should have bought new! Everything worked on this a/c unit when shipped.
I'm let no person bully me into anything and yet as I say that I'm trying to figure out the right path. If I give you your money back, have I just paid for an air cleaner unit that you are more satisfied with? Coltons (?) maybe or the one off of ebay? My path is not clear here and you know it by saying the things you have "excessive written communication" to me. A person cannot just buy something and then want to return it because he might have found one he likes better. I have asked someone here about the right path to take, but clearly one of us is not going to like the outcome.

65panhed

And I guess that will be me. I will give you a refund after a proper examination of the air cleaner itself, if you don't mind. Return cleaner by the same method it was shipped to you, USPS priority mail. This the deal take it or leave it. Hobsons choice.

Saxondale

iTrader: (2)

I agree to returning the air cleaner to you via USPS Priority Mail for you to examine, and after a proper examination you will give a refund to my Paypal account. Thank you.

88RS

iTrader: (7)

Will USPS cover this at all?

jmd

iTrader: (4)

As an impartial party, I will enter the fray and suggest the following:

The damage matches the original pictures posted by the seller.
The crumpled snorkel was shown, allowed by the buyer, and could be functional with some effort.
The passenger side rod wouldn't become stuck by shipment damage.
Assuming that point, and assuming the bent lid allows for an air leak isn't "all functions work."

You both could stand to communicate with some brevity. None of the un-involved air cleaners matter, and frankly blur the issue, since functionality is pretty clear-cut.

He's offered to eat the shipping cost originally paid plus cost to return it. Suck it up and take it back.

Restrorob

iTrader: (7)

Rich is going to take a $80 hit on this transaction to return a “nice air cleaner" “all functions work”, which is clearly shown to be neither. Least you can do 65panhed is take it back, refund his purchase price and be out nothing.....

65panhed

Already done folks.

Saxondale

iTrader: (2)

Agree. We reached a solution. 65panhed has demonstrated a reputation as honest and trustworthy.

This air cleaner should be saved. Someone with metalworking skill can make it happen. It is relatively heavy gauge steel on the snorkels. The lid and body are very heavy gauge. And it is possible the lid is shared with LG4 and other GM products. Someone may already have one laying around.

Just don't ship it! As 65panhed can attest these cleaners and lids are heavy heavy heavy.

Opening the hood of a dual snorkeled L69 takes me straight back to the muscle cars of lore (which I can no longer afford!).

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Well done.

With regard to the lid,
If someone wasn't going for originality, the chrome lid sold as Mr. Gasket 5191 (and others) for 30 years fits and allows a taller filter. I can't imagine it wouldn't fit a third gen.

The taller filter / taller lid fits a LOT of applications: http://www.knfilters.com/search/appl...px?prod=E-1500 in case you just wanted a black lid, or to look up an air filter for purchase.

65panhed

Thank you jmd! I do not know status of ac unit at this time but all was going well on the return.
To Restorob, I was truly seeking reasonable input to make a just and competent decision. If you have no dogs in the fight other than being an obnoxious troublemaker you need to just go lay down.
With the introduction of the added air cleaner pictures, it did indeed muddy up the waters. Are or were other parts pictured other than mine mine? Did Saxondale find a better air cleaner and just decide he didn't want mine? these were questions on my mind. Your reply was late and detrimental to my decision making process. Normally for people like you, I will take the exact opposite path just to spite you. So to you sir again, go away and please, please don't ever respond to another of my posts regarding anything.

65panhed

Your refund has been sent.