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ConvertiblesDiscussed here are problems and solutions to convertible specific questions, including difficult to find part numbers and other convertible tech help.
I have been searching through threads for months trying to get information & or background on these "SPECIAL EDITION" Convertibles.
All the information I've been able to obtain mainly through TGO shows these cars were the 6 digit of the VIN as #2 cars (Coupes).
Also some say it started as early as late 85, others say 86 & ran up until 88. I've seen the Special Edition #s as high as 482 & as low as 41. I just found FOUR more threads ALL being 1986 cars, one is #81, the other is #138 (1986 car) just found another thread with a 1986 car #0090 & one that was destroyed in a junkyard (not 100% verified on year, betting an 87) / was # 141 indicated by the badge on the dash as well as had the engraved markings on the convertible cross members. This is THE FIRST time I've heard stamping on the rr as me as well. I'm guessing a stamping is on the frame connectors.
On another not: ASC said they only made 82 Camaro verts in 1986. (Chevy Enthusiasts). So much information spread out to far.
In addition I've seen posts that there were ONLY 263 Special Edition verts built (which can't be the case). I own #103 & is a 1987 Convertible IROC with a GM date code of Manufacture of 1/87 but an unreadable ASC date code.
Questions are:
1. When did GM actually sign the contract with ASC for the convertible program and start numbering the 6th digit of the VIN to be a 3? We all know the 87 dealer brochure didn't make any mention of a convertible & there was a suppliment to the dealer service manual.
2. How many of these cars were actually produced with the #2 & converted total? I think I saw a late 86 car with a higher Special Edition # than my 103.
3. Of the cars converted by ASC and given the "Special Edition" plaque: did they start the sequence of numbers in 85 or 86 & didn't reset for the model year?
Also these plaques look the same but placement AND what ASC left in the dash is strange. My car just has the plaque only without Z28 or IROC but placed higher than the ones with the Z28 or Camaro left in place.
4. Were ALL the Special Edition cars contracted directly with ASC or did some go through dealers OR possibly did you HAVE to go through a dealer in order to get your car sent off to ASC?
5. Were there at least 482+ people with that kind of cash laying around to buy a brand new $15,000 + car THEN send it off with an additional $4,000 to have it made into a Convertible? This is why I think they were program cars of some sort for financing & why not just order one of the 20th Anniversary cars if it was the same $? Possibly in the original GM deal they hadto.meet a certain # to fulfill the contact with ASC & certain cars were selected off the assembly line?
ANY information on this subject is appreciated.
I've read through the Firebird post & seems that would be a whole different discussion UNLESS the Bird lineup counted towards the total production #s of Special Edition cars but just not marked as such. Is it possible that some of the birds counted as Special Edition cars in the ASC Count and just not given a plaque?
We know there has to be a minimum of 482 made in some capacity but seems high to me. Could this also have been any ASC conversion done during this time frame & an assembly line #?
I'm yet to find 2 of the Special Editions with sequential numbers or even close.
We also could investigate build dates as well as VIN numbers to figure out more details.
I don't think these Special Editions are some rare cars but just ttop cars that have an additional $4,000 spent to be chopped up.
If you have a SPECIAL EDITION PLAQUE please post it up
Also was every Special Edition car marked with ASC on the dash as well as under the cigarette bezel (where a rear defrost switch was) OR only those cars that had an original rear defrost (which my RPO codes show mine as a non defrost car)?
My knowledge is that 1987 was the first year of the vert sanctioned by GM .
I have been told, but can't verify, That ASC had produce special edition plaque cars, the same Saleen would have done and still do with mustangs. ASC started the conversion as early as 1984 and GM then took notice and used them for the conversions in 1987.
They would convert any car that a customer would bring to them. I have seen a 1978 firebird and Camaro.
I think your research should be directed towards ASC, you could get more answers in that direction.
My knowledge is that 1987 was the first year of the vert sanctioned by GM .
I have been told, but can't verify, That ASC had produce special edition plaque cars, the same Saleen would have done and still do with mustangs. ASC started the conversion as early as 1984 and GM then took notice and used them for the conversions in 1987.
They would convert any car that a customer would bring to them. I have seen a 1978 firebird and Camaro.
I think your research should be directed towards ASC, you could get more answers in that direction.
Thank you for the response.
Your car is a 6th digit VIN 3 car. Which should be a with Anniversary car correct? If you have a plaque, please post. VIN # Sequence though #157561, is later than mine (#223267).
I've tried contacting ASC but once the owner died in 2001 his wife sold off divisions of the company & it no longer exists. I'd LOVE to find the records as it's been said ASC kept very good accounts of VIN# details. If you have any leads on who to contact that would be greatly appreciated.
Yes, mine is a 20th Anniversary car with the leather pouch, no plaque.
Sorry, I do not have any leads.
There was a very knowledgeable person on here called "Willie", he doesn't post or visit much anymore, but you could send him a PM and see if he could participate.
Good Luck !
There was a very knowledgeable person on here called "Willie", he doesn't post or visit much anymore, but you could send him a PM and see if he could participate.
Good Luck !
I do log in once in a blue moon but not often. Please do NOT PM me. I cannot keep up.
I do have some information and I also have spoken with a former '80's ASC employee but that was a very long time ago. I believe I still have his contact information. Please e-mail me regarding any of this. tplsz87@***.net.
I'm waiting for Willie to call me back again before undating anything. We spoke for a few minutes butt the timing for me was not good (Murphys law). When & if Willie calls back I will put everything else on hold.
Boy, it would be great if Mike Heuhn of ASC was on TGO - he was a go to at ASC in the day for all these things.
ASC began building Firebird converts early (hey, if it fits a Camaro...) once they had the approval from GM for Camaro which would be necessary for any federalization, etc.
ASC built at least one unit in '86 for evaluation by Pontiac, but, while the car was drop dead sexy, all the squeak and rattle issues that were driving warranty out of sight on F-body were twice as bad with the top cut off. (It got crushed on Chief Engineer Byron Warner's "Black Friday" cleanout of the Pontiac Historical Collection.)
To the best of my knowledge, the convertible was not "Factory" until 1990.5 and the introduction of the Banshee look nose and a whole whoop load of process improvements in the build to make the Convertible at least tolerable from a product acceptability standpoint.
FWIW, I had the privilege of seeing the 20th TA project up close (wrote the catalog, actually) and considered dumping my Formula convert to have ASC build what would have been TA 20 Cvt. #4 - but at the time, I was so upside down in equity, a trade was out of the question, and just got married...
Still have the great wife and the Firebird! (Insert variety of off-color metaphors here...
The Firebird lineup has significantly more information on details and numbers.
The ASC conversion cars started in 86 & some were destroyed by GM/ASC & some were sold to the public. The "Special Edition" cars sequence was started then & carried on until 88. We are yet to find 2 "Special Editions" being different years with the same number or close in numbers. The lowest number in that sequence I've seen is 0062 & the highest is 0482. The details are extremely value even from the 2 ASC executivs I've had the pleasure of speaking with.
According to John Nechiporchik (ASC VP during the 80's) ASC did make the "Special Edition" cars but never as backdoor conversions. They were either test cars produced by ASC for GM or built through a dealer order. He said you couldn't just drop you car off for a conversion at ASC. John is not sure of actual numbers & I even tried to verify if the 744 numbers included the "Special Edition" cars or just the VIN 3 cars.
I'm still working on getting more details & have a list of people to contact on the subject.
If ANYONE has contact information for anyone that might have more information please get me details so the mystery can be solved.
Yes it would be nice to know the total production of the special edition numbered cars and the 20th pouch cars. I have one of each and found another one just this week that a friend of mine told me about. Don't know much yet because the car is 5 hrs away. I should be able to take a road trip and see it soon. All I know is that it is a 87 convertible black with a 5-speed and gold wheels car. I will post more on it after I look at it and hopefully buy it. JIM
Yes it would be nice to know the total production of the special edition numbered cars and the 20th pouch cars. I have one of each and found another one just this week that a friend of mine told me about. Don't know much yet because the car is 5 hrs away. I should be able to take a road trip and see it soon. All I know is that it is a 87 convertible black with a 5-speed and gold wheels car. I will post more on it after I look at it and hopefully buy it. JIM
The "pouch" 20th Anniversary cars we have a pretty firm handle on. 744 (Z28/IROC I think 200 or so Z28 & 544 IROC), THEN 263 of tge Sport Coupe.
WE DO NOT HAVE a number on Special Edition cars & the more I research the stranger the # system gets. I've found 86 cars with higher #s than 87 cars. That is the real purpose of this thread and would like OWNERS to post up the year, production date from GM then production date from ASC with Special Edition #.....0xxx.
My understanding there was at least 3 1985 Firebird convertibles that were actually used at the Detroit Auto show as a display in 1986. The show is in January so it would make sense that they would have used 85s. I know of a few 1986 Firebirds still out there, I have the VIN for 2 or 3 of them. There was a recent citing of a 1985 in Detroit that was verified as a 1985 ASC.
The squeaks and rattles thing may have been the excuse, but the real reason was the EPA mandate of MPG, the Trans Am and GTA could not even meet muster with the shade and subwoofer option, so the extra weight, and drag of the convertible conversion would have been out of the question for sure for 1987.
The program was a joint venture with GM and ASC, like the 83-85 Riviera and the Cavalier, Sunbird and Corvette. ASC was the go-to company for convertibles for GM in the 80's and 90's, the only exception I know of was the Olds Cutlass Convertible that was done by C&C, (on a side not C&C also did the Beretta convertible as a concept but it was rejected AFAIK)
If you notice in 1987 the only Camaros to get a convertible were with either the LG4-AUTO or the LB9-MANUAL... Obviously no L98's, and interestingly no V6's. This more than likely had to do with crash worthiness and EPA MPG regulations. There are many hurdles to get a car to production, the actual ability to make them is the first step, the other challenges is the ability to get them to pass not only crash structural tests, but to pass the EPA fuel economy mandates. I think they simply ran out of time...
As far as having a special edition cars out of sequence, the OP mentioned that there was a 1986 with a higher number than his, I suspect it has to do with the fact that Dealers up and to 1987 production could take a lot car and have it converted, the only stipulation was it had to be a T-top car. I am not aware of any 1988 convertibles that are part of the "Special Edition"
I just brought home one of these cars. It's going to be a fixer, but she runs, drives, and is complete, with the exception of one piece- the passenger door extension. Mine has the 20th anniversary pouch on the dash.
Here is a build sheet from my 1987 Iroc Z Convertible in case anyone is interested. I have never seen one other than mine. I don't know what the 9th digit "X" signifies, so any info on that would be enlightening to me and I have owned this car since 1988, so long that I know it's VIN # by heart, lol. 1G1FP31FXHN153115
Last edited by topless87; 08-01-2016 at 10:26 AM.
Reason: Added RPO code sticker
Here is a build sheet from my 1987 Iroc Z Convertible in case anyone is interested. I have never seen one other than mine. I don't know what the 9th digit "X" signifies, so any info on that would be enlightening to me and I have owned this car since 1988, so long that I know it's VIN # by heart, lol. 1G1FP31FXHN153115
This is a "20th Anniversary" car. One of the 744 built however it's estimated only about 100-120 were 5 speed cars.
These are NOT part of the "Special Edition" cars but certainly very cool ASC cars
I just brought home one of these cars. It's going to be a fixer, but she runs, drives, and is complete, with the exception of one piece- the passenger door extension. Mine has the 20th anniversary pouch on the dash.
Beth, I've seen the pictures of yours and like we talked about on FB your's is a 20th Anniversary, not one if the "Special Edition" cars. That trim piece will be tough to find but luckily you can make one using the other because finding one might be very tough
This is a "20th Anniversary" car. One of the 744 built however it's estimated only about 100-120 were 5 speed cars.
These are NOT part of the "Special Edition" cars but certainly very cool ASC cars
Do you have any info on the "X" in the VIN number?
Do you have any info on the "X" in the VIN number?
The 9th digit of a VIN is a "Check" digit & has no real meaning 10th digit is uear. 11th digit is plant & 12-17 is production numbers. X is a common 9th digit along Chevrolet /GM lines
The X is the check digit... When calculating the check digit you assign values to the letters, and then you multiply each letter or number by a specific multiplier based upon the position in the VIN. Then you add up all of the numbers and then divide by 11. If there is no remainder the Check digit is a 0, if the remainder is a 1 (1/11) then it is a 1, this is done through 9. However if the remainder ended up as a 10, then the check digit is an X.
Beth, I've seen the pictures of yours and like we talked about on FB your's is a 20th Anniversary, not one if the "Special Edition" cars. That trim piece will be tough to find but luckily you can make one using the other because finding one might be very tough
The X is the check digit... When calculating the check digit you assign values to the letters, and then you multiply each letter or number by a specific multiplier based upon the position in the VIN. Then you add up all of the numbers and then divide by 11. If there is no remainder the Check digit is a 0, if the remainder is a 1 (1/11) then it is a 1, this is done through 9. However if the remainder ended up as a 10, then the check digit is an X.
Thank you both very much for the information on that digit. In my FSM, that did not exist so I always wondered how it came about!
I do have an interesting question to this, where the Camaros the only ones to have this special edition badge, I ask because I have an 87 gta firebird convertible that has a special edition badge. I'm not sure if it was supposed to come with it or not. I believe the number is 0412.
I do have an interesting question to this, where the Camaros the only ones to have this special edition badge, I ask because I have an 87 gta firebird convertible that has a special edition badge. I'm not sure if it was supposed to come with it or not. I believe the number is 0412.
This is very interesting & I did suspect that some birds also came with the badge but until you posted today (Thank you), it was unverified by me. Possibly others knew about it. Where is the badge & didn't delete the map pocket to have it installed? Please post a picture, now I'm very curious. This could answer why the numbers seem to end in the 400s but for the Camaro lineup are so staggered and doesn't seem to be a sequence nor numerous cars around the same time frame.
Actually my dash pad was all intact, it's always been mounted on the radio pod. Here is a link to a thread to my car https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/convertibles/569363-my-87-asc-gta.html
I believe the picture is in the 3rd post, but it's actually all back together and running since this was done
I do have an interesting question to this, where the Camaros the only ones to have this special edition badge, I ask because I have an 87 gta firebird convertible that has a special edition badge. I'm not sure if it was supposed to come with it or not. I believe the number is 0412.
Im adding these pictures because this shows there seems to be variations in the plaque except for location & it's on the Bird lineup. This helps a lot.
1987 GTA Special Edition. So there were not 400+ on just the Camaro lineup.
I believe that in the case of the firebirds, (honestly have not seen that many) the Special edition numbers were added into the Camaro count, they had one pile of emblems, and they just pulled it from the pile. So You could easily have
Camaro SE # 410
Camaro SE # 411 Firebird SE # 412
Camaro SE # 413
etc... It would make sense, and the logistics would be greatly reduced. This would also help explain why there seems to be such a high number of SE cars, as it may have actually branched off into other lines as well, we do not know unfortunately.
I believe that in the case of the firebirds, (honestly have not seen that many) the Special edition numbers were added into the Camaro count, they had one pile of emblems, and they just pulled it from the pile. So You could easily have
Camaro SE # 410
Camaro SE # 411 Firebird SE # 412
Camaro SE # 413
etc... It would make sense, and the logistics would be greatly reduced. This would also help explain why there seems to be such a high number of SE cars, as it may have actually branched off into other lines as well, we do not know unfortunately.
I was wondering the exact same thing about possibly other cars as well....I'm going to start hunting other Special Edition ASC cars & see if anything else had these badges. There dies seem to be a high number of SESSION cars.
Thank you for the response & I didn't realize the Bird's had these badges too. Making slow progress but progress none the less.
Been a long time since I check these boards. I too have a 1987 "Factory Authorized" Z-28 Convertible by the VIN Number. Back when Willie was active and searching for these cars, he had located 12 of these cars, mine was the 11th found. I have the 20th Anniversary Pouch and back when you could get the RPO Numbers from the GM Historical Group, I was able to get all of the RPO Codes as the decal is missing. It stated that my was the Gold/Tan on White and the top was Tan.
Can't remember where I saw it recently but there was an 86 with a low number on the dash - 027 I think. Did these Special Edition numbers start in 86 and continue into & through 1987?
Been a long time since I check these boards. I too have a 1987 "Factory Authorized" Z-28 Convertible by the VIN Number. Back when Willie was active and searching for these cars, he had located 12 of these cars, mine was the 11th found. I have the 20th Anniversary Pouch and back when you could get the RPO Numbers from the GM Historical Group, I was able to get all of the RPO Codes as the decal is missing. It stated that my was the Gold/Tan on White and the top was Tan.
I think that number was based off 5 spd 20th Anniversary cars. I know there has to be more than 12 of these 5 spd cars. I've personally see at least 10 in the last 5 years.
Can't remember where I saw it recently but there was an 86 with a low number on the dash - 027 I think. Did these Special Edition numbers start in 86 and continue into & through 1987?
This thread was started to answer some of these questions. I think the concensus is, the numbering system started in 86 & continued until late 87. The assumption is now that Firebird lineup was also included in the Special Edition numbers and possibly another line...we just haven't gotten any facts yet. Hopefully any time someone sees one of these cars we can get the VIN & SE # to get these questions answered
A 1986 ASC IROC vert just showed up on TGO. The Special Edition number is #138.... my 87 is a lower SE number being a #103. Did ASC start the sequence over again for a new model year????
People keep listing they "know the history" of these cars in the for sale ads & most are saying, at least on the 86 cars, they were created for GM as conversion cars to show GM how nice they were before GM singing a contract to build on the line.
Amazing how there just aren't many facts around.
Keep in mind that in 1987, you could take a lot car and have it converted, the only stipulation was that it had to be a T-Top car... So if a dealer still had an 86 car in stock in 1987, they could have shipped it to ASC to be converted... Thus why the sequence number may not correspond to the VIN sequence...
The dealer order logs make this somewhat apparent, for what seems 90% of the cars that I have a listing for they were ordered by the dealer for a new car, and then scheduled and drop shipped to ASC for the conversion. The car was then shipped to the dealer. However there are a few cars that appear to be lot cars that were converted. My best guess the way to tell is the time between when the conversion was scheduled, and when it was shipped from ASC. If the car was scheduled 1 or 2 months before the conversion, that car would have been ordered by the dealer to be made, drop shipped to ASC then shipped to the dealer. However cars that were Scheduled only a week or two before it was shipped to the dealer probably were lot cars that a customer or a dealer wanted to have converted.
Take the two TTA convertibles,
VIN ends with 13666 - Order number 10162, Scheduled 6-23-89, shipped 6-23-89
VIN ends with 38839 - Order number 9870, Scheduled 2-7-89, shipped 4-4-89
As you can see the lower VIN was made after the higher VIN, but the Scheduled and ship dates are the same date. This was by the way the one White PAS test convertible with Cloth interior...
I think the car I just bought maybe is rarest iroc out there can anyone let me know . It's a 1988 iroc z 5 speed g92 j30 with the sticker delete option also
I think the car I just bought maybe is rarest iroc out there can anyone let me know . It's a 1988 iroc z 5 speed g92 j30 with the sticker delete option also
Welcome to TGO. Congratulations on your purchase but this thread is for Special Edition CONVERTIBLE IROCs only.
HENCE the title of the thread...
SPECIAL EDITION CONVERTIBLES ASC ONLY PLEASE.....
Your car is not rare although lower production.
Is your car a convertible?
Does it say Special Edition on the dash?
Was it converted by ASC?
Did you get mixed up on what thread you were posting on?
No its not the special addition I'm in the wrong area I'm moving to another post sorry thought this was for convertibles that is rare and I've never seen one like this one and I have 5 iroc convertibles
I've recently purchased my second Camaro in 41 years, a 1986 Z28 ASC convertible 'Special Edition', serial 0047. I bought it from the original owner with 65k miles, a real time capsule. Its complete with all the documentation since new, never damaged or altered in any way.
To bring it up to a 100% standard I need to replace a couple of items. The #1 header bow trim cover is cracked on the left side; so is the 1987-88 cover interchangeable?
Also, the black pad on the tonneau cover is warped and wont sit flat in places. I believe the 87-88 pad is similar, but will it fit?
I've recently purchased my second Camaro in 41 years, a 1986 Z28 ASC convertible 'Special Edition', serial 0047. I bought it from the original owner with 65k miles, a real time capsule. Its complete with all the documentation since new, never damaged or altered in any way.
To bring it up to a 100% standard I need to replace a couple of items. The #1 header bow trim cover is cracked on the left side; so is the 1987-88 cover interchangeable?
Also, the black pad on the tonneau cover is warped and wont sit flat in places. I believe the 87-88 pad is similar, but will it fit?
I think the pad is the same for all years 86-92. The top is the big difference, there are 4 frames
The early frame 85-88 and the late frame 90-92. The big difference is the later frame is wider.
The 89 is kind of stuck in the middle, it is essentially the same as the late frame, but it did not have the headliner.
The 92 Frame mounts differently to the car IIRC.
I think the pad is the same for all years 86-92. The top is the big difference, there are 4 frames
The early frame 85-88 and the late frame 90-92. The big difference is the later frame is wider.
The 89 is kind of stuck in the middle, it is essentially the same as the late frame, but it did not have the headliner.
The 92 Frame mounts differently to the car IIRC.
John
Thanks for the info. Bruce at Hawks Motorsports is sending the 87-88 tonneau pad, those steel tonneau panel stampings look the same as 1986. He sells a different pad for the 89 and later.
The tonneu for 87-88 should fit fine. When I bought my '86 vert back in 1998, the cover was all warped as well. Was lucky to find a NOS cover on ebay for an 87, and it fit fine - except the original one didn't have a notch cut out where the unlock "switch" is located on the later 87(?)- cars.
06-01-2016, 02:30 PM
