FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

rained real bad here past couple days so i couldnt get anything done that i wanted to... but i just got a deal on a set of stainless steel roller tip rockers, BNIB 1.5/1.6s $100 shipped so hopefully thatll be ok... the 1.5s on the intake and 1.6s exhaust i just wanna get going this year, Atilla would you e against me disassembling the shortblock and replacing the bearing and rings?? its only another $160 for me(with an EZ hone) and if i add it to my CP order ill save on shipping, i figure i could take it apart clean it up and replace the rings and bearings while its still a shortblock, is there any reason i wouldnt be able to do that without getting the crank cut and the rods reconed?? i actually wanna reuse the rodbolts too even though i know its not a good idea rod bolts are $60 i cant find a set of stock rod bolts at all and no one sells them so your stuck buying ARP for $60 if anyone knows where to get cheap ones please let me know... if you think i should just run the crappy shortblock this year and redo it next year then ill do it i was just thinking since ive got it this far maybe i could freshen her up a little before she goes in my cousin was just over here and hes built a few nice racing motors and he said the engine looked ok "but it wouldnt hurt" just need some more opinions keep in mind this thing IS not a daily driver so im not really worried about being stranded somewhere, i dont WANT it to happen but if it does ill deal with it and just hope the top end of the motor is unharmed so i can reuse it next year with a 383

still looking for a 3.73 rear so i dont have to redo the one i have... would 3.42 be a decent compromise?? (between 3.73 and 3.23)

rustrider73

Its always nice to put new rings and bearings and hone the block and just clean everything up whenever you can,but if you never done it before you better trust whoever is doing it for you. Remember to clean everthing and all your tools before you start to reassemble everything and be carefull not to bang up the cranks bearing surfaces,and use a good assembly lube.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

ill be doing it myself and i may or may not be able to get an experienced supervisor to watch me, ive watched it done by family members and ive been watching "boxwrench.net videos" i think i can handle it, and ill get everything as clean as possible. what would be a good solvent to use i was thinking gas or kerosene is there something that your SUPPOSED to use? im thinking thats 1 vote to install new rings and bearings? also will i need a "cam bearing install tool"?

rustrider73

I use mineral spirits because I think its easier on the skin and you WILL need a cam bearing tool to remove and install cam bearings if you are going to change them.

naf

iTrader: (7)

The existing cam bearings are likely fine and don't need to be removed unless you tank it. For a budget, garage re-ring a visual inspection of the cam bearings is adequate, IMO.

'Course I wouldn't necessarily replace the bearings unless an inspection revealed problems, same with the rings. If you haven't done it before and everything looks clean it may be best to let it go.

Did you pull the caps off and have a look? How are the cylinders? Any ridge or is there still evidence of cross-hatch?

Atilla the Fun

Better not even try the cam bearings without a pro standing there. There's generally nothing wrong with reusing them.
I see no good reason to do the rings and bearings if you can just turn the crank by hand, and can still see good cross-hatch in the bores. If the crank spins easily, and the cross hatch is mostly vanished, then I'd do the re-ring.
If you do the re-ring, use Mineral Spirits. You can get a gallon can from Wal-Mart for under $10.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

i gotta put some pressure on it to turn it over not alot but its not just spinning easy... not sure if you can see the cross hatch i forget ill get some close up pics and you can tell me?? i really dont wanna dig into it any deeper if i dont have to, if itll run as is id like to leave it alone and just get it in and running so i can start saving for a 383, CP has a 1pc rear main oem roller cam 4bolt 383 shortblock for 1700$ that i think ill just start saving for after this gets done and next year ill have all the cash up front to get that and swap my topend over to it, of course it wont be a custom cam but if thats the only thing wrong itll be awesome! lol anyway ill get some pics of the bore up tomorrow and ill make my final CP order tomorrow i just got the jim pace order in for the LS lifters and the zz4 timing cover... what kind of push rod guide plates should i get raised or flat?? im getting new hardened pushrods to go with them so you know.

Atilla the Fun

since you're doing another engine within a year, just run it however it is. Keep the rpm to 5500, you should be safe.

Atilla the Fun

About that CP 383, I know it says 9.7:1 with 64 cc, but it's really more like 10.1:1, and Vortec heads are generally 61-62cc to start with. If you put your Vortecs on that, you'll be around 10.5:1, and that calls for a ridiculous cam. It'd be fine if you're shooting for 450 horses and 6000 rpm, on premium gas. But you're still gonna need a loose converter, something like a Holeshot 2400.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

5500 check!

ok i should have a 2600 stall this friday, do you know if theyd put different pistons in there for me ? i could always just go more radical on the cam, the springs are supposed to be good for 600 lift, and im on the fence about replacing the Qjet with a "speed demon" next year. if the funds are right next year ill be sending you my heads and having 2.02/1.6s put in when i get them back from ya and im thinking of a roots type bower... have to see what i can get saved up and what i can sell but for now i better just concentrate on this year, ill post some pics of the bores later on today and i still need to know what guide plates to get, i wanna place my CP order before the end of today i may just call them and see what they say but i hate doing that cause you never know if your getting a salesman or someone who knows his stuff... btw Atilla how much hp could i make with a 383 and a blower?? i was thinking itd be nice to have around 600 lol could a blown 383 get me there? anyway i really just wanna know what to do this year right now lol

Atilla the Fun

the CCC QJ won't work with the cam you'd need for 10.5:1.
I could do you a pair of stage 3 Vortecs, but I'd suggest you either just do 10.1:1 with RHS ProTorker Vortecs and the smallest COMP Thumpr HR cam, with an RPMAirGap Vortec, a custom Demon 850 Annular carb, and Hooker 1.75" long-tubes, Or go with a pair of EQ200 heads, a custom solid roller cam, a Super Victor, et cetera.
going with forged dished pistons and boost will be much better results, but the cost keeps climbing.
As to guideplates, I prefer to use rail rockers instead, but if you insist, then get flat plates.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

the guideplates are for the pushrods?! ill just get flat... rail rockers were alot of money i got mine for $100 shipped stainless steel roller tips with long slots and lock nuts, i was thinking of reusing the topend i have to save money, MAYBE getting a differnt cam(comp thumpr) and different carb, but im not gonna buy EVERYTHING different, if i dont reuse the stuff i have this year itll be a big waste of money only thing i really wanna replace next year is the shortblock and i was throwing the idea of a blower around in my head but if its gonna be that drastic ill just swap the shortblock out and leave it alone, 33 more cubes should get me a reasinable increase and the reliability of a new shortblock... but anyway im ordering the stuff from cp now gonna get the flat guideplates and all new bolts pushrods etc, basically ill have a all new top end on the old shortblock with a new cam and timing chain and a new HV oil pump, didnt get any pics of the bores today got into some other stuff, but im not gonna redo it anyway im just gonna run it a little this year, as long as she runs and drives ill be able to do more with it anyway, gotta get it going before the snow starts, it was 40 degrees last night...

Atilla the Fun

The guideplates are for the pushrods, but rail rockers accomplish the same end result. For 5500 rpm, either is fine. At much higher rpm, guideplates are safer.
The HV pump shouldn't be necessary, but shouldn't hurt anything, either.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

ok i checked it out, the crosshatch is barely visible, my camera is at my mother in laws but im just gonna run it, whats the worse that could happen it fails?? i got AAA lol oh yeah i got the guide plates in the mail... they dont fit anyway, so itll be ok to run without them right??? got the new pushrods though, they are the CP stock upgrade pushrods but they dont say "hardened"

Atilla the Fun

You don't need hardened pushrods if either (A) the heads have pushrod slots, which are NOT round holes, or (B) you use rail-type rockers.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

the push rods are competition products PN 1020 5/16th pushrods .060 wall 7.195 length heat treated for guide plates for use w/ 1987 and up roller cam motors

supposed to be a stock upgrade nothing crazy, the heads do have round holes for the pushrods, im actually gonna send the guide plates back and just run it like the stock setup, the stock setup was good to 5500 rpm wasnt it?

im gonna try to get the shortblock all buttoned up and the heads on today when i get back from taking my son to school ill try to go pick up the camera first and document the whole process and get some pics of the cross hatch, or lack there of lol

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

ran out of time i got the block all cleaned up the old oil pump off and the cam installed with the timing set back on lifters in with retainers installed, so im getting there... didnt get the camera so no pics yet, but theres def not alot of crosshatch showing, im guessing thats gonna cause alot more friction and compression loss huh?

heres the cam card, im using the 1.6 rockers on the exhaust so i edited the card to show what the lift is

Atilla the Fun

less friction, but more power loss. Main thing is watching for blue smoke out the tailpipes on deceleration.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

ok that would mean theres oil in the af mix ??

naf

iTrader: (7)

When the throttle closes under decel the pistons try their best to suck oil past the rings into the chamber.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

i see from the vacuum...

when i install these heads should i be using the rtv or does the head gasket get installed dry? my manual doesnt say wether or not to do so

ok i think i found the answer the gaskets get intalled dry, and im wondering wehter or not to use a lube or a thread sealer (loctite) on the bolts??? my plan is to get up at 7am tommorow AM and pick up the new 2600 stall tci converter and come home and install that and get the heads on and maybe more, hopefully i can get ahold of the camera and do some documentation

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

would 3.42 gears be ok until i can get 3.73s im finding alot of good deals for complete LS1 rears with 3.42 gear ratios and like very few with 3.73s if they do have 3.73s they are alot more expensive... so i know it wouldnt be optimal but i was thinking it may be a decent compromise for now until i can get the 3.73s i really just want a better looking rear (mine needs a sandblast bad) and i want the LS brakes, i figure ill get the rear brakes with the rear then i can get the front ones a little later and she should brake pretty good then... i just dont wanna spend 500 on another rear(unless i sell my old one first)

and for an update, its been raining bad here and i havent gotten to do anything to the engine i did get my workshop very clean and organized though, so tomorrow if its not raining im gonna start bustin my butt

naf

iTrader: (7)

I wouldn't go above 3.42 if you're using the 700R4. It (the 700) has a very low first gear ratio and a higher rear end will wind thru it too fast. 3.42s are a good compromise for a street driven car that sees a little highway use. You'll be happy with them and glad you didn't spend the extra $ on 3.73s. IMO anyway. I'm running 3.27 behind my vortec motor. Love them.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

my car is like a "street compromise" the compromise is i dont care if its uncomfortable it has no radio no AC and no carpet lol itll see a little street use and some highway stuff but its really just meant to be as fast as possible... 1 vote for 3.42s!

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

naf you got like the same thing im building huh? never realized it until you said so then i read your description... what cam do you have? the Qjet works fine i take it??? anything special done to it? what rods/ hangerss you using?? have you had it to the track??

naf

iTrader: (7)

When I put mine together about six years ago it was supposed to be my DD so I kept it mild. Used an XE262 cam with unmodified vortec heads, hedman hedders and a rebuilt 700 with a shift kit and a 2200 stall. Stock ccc-qjet with a 350 KS and module. Don't recall the rods/hanger but I could check later.

When I get my TA weatherstripped and painted I hope to put the camaro in the garage to go roller cam. Maybe next Spring.

Random pic:

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

whats a 350 ks... knock sensor? i love your quote btw

naf

iTrader: (7)

Yeah KS=Knock Sensor. You can run with the 305 disconnected as long as you're careful with your timing. I've had no problems with pinging with the Vortecs, even without EGR.

Thanks on the sig. A girl that worked with me a long time ago sent that to me.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

i was thinking when i get the engine installed maybe you could get some detailed pics of your engine bay ?and let me know what is what. i took pics of the wiring before i pulled the engine but it would be nice to have an extra set to ID everything

naf

iTrader: (7)

Sure no problem. I've been completely through two 87's and an 85. My driveway today:

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

dam... now thats my kind of party!

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

im still hunting down a new rear with 3.42s installed... im also contemplating a holley 4150 carb, would anyone be against me doing that?? im pretty sure there an article on this board somewhere about converting the HEI to work without the computer itd be pretty straight forward, and droping the comp and most of the wiring harness would a little reduce weight and clutter, but does anyone know if can i get my stock gauges to work if the comp isnt there??? anyone whos done this please chime in, i want everything to work like stock, i figure if im getting rid of EGR and probably the AIR too, might as well not even have the computer, i do love the cc Qjets though, im basically just bench racing here because its too rainy to work outside, we are in severe flood watch, its been raining HARD for days and if its not raining, im working

naf

iTrader: (7)

None of the guages rely on the computer to function.

The computer can be maintained to run the computer controlled distributor but you'll need to rig up a remote TPS to the new carb somehow. There's a few threads on it somewhere.

Probably best though to just go with a non-computer controlled HEI as they're fairly inexpensive and you can adjust the curve.

You'll also need to rig an alternate method of converter lock up.

Little gain for a lot of work though IMO.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

yeah sounds like it to me too

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

picture updates... finally!

long block(almost complete... im getting there )

new air cleaner (K&N extreme knockoff)with firebird badge mocked up, i will be making it permanent later

new hood, im pretty sure that with the performer RPM intake and the new airc leaner along with the Qjet to squarebore adapter plate it wouldnt fit under the stock hood..

question: what lb/ft should the heads be torqued to? i did it to 65lb/ft, and then i read in my chiltons manual that 85 and up small block heads were 85lb/ft, that sounded pretty tight to me but im far from an expert.... also anyone use one of these ZZ4 timing covers before?? im not sure if it needs gaskets or not because there is a rubber seal and it says "do not reinstall after removal"

gotta get the valve covers and oil pan cleaned and painted tomorrow then ill be finishing it up... ill post some more pics then too

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

so i got the ZZ4 timing cover on today, i spoke with a guy from jim pace and he confirmed that rtv/ gaskets were not needed so installed the cover, wanting to finish the rest of the engine so it would be ready to go in on monday... the timing cover is TOO big, fits prefect and looks great, but the crank snout only stiicks out 1/2" wtf?! has anyone else had this problem?? this thing is supposed to work with all 96 and newer blocks and mine is a 99... im calling Jim Pace in the morning... ill get some pics up to show what i mean

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

anyone know if a regular sbc timing cover will fit??

update: just spoke with a guy from Jim Pace he says the balancer should slip right in to the cover just enough to go dead stop on the crank shaft... woooo feel like i dodged a bullet on that one, im off to work now but monday when i get home from work ill get the balancer on and get some before and after pics up so everyone can see what i was talking about and if anyone is reading this uses a ZZ4 cover they will know what to expect

naf

iTrader: (7)

Good work so far.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

ok heres some pics of the cover, i think i should have painted the block before i put it on, but im sure i can tape it off and spray the WHOLE thing when its completely assembled, my camera sucks... ill get some pics of the balncer installed soon...

naf thanks for the support, it feels good to make the progress but its still going way too slow for my taste

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

ok i got the engine bay cleaned yesterday, got everything that needed to be painted sanded down, masked everything etc... started painting today, ill get some pics up later... pulled the old torque converter off with no problems but, there is a real light drizzle coming from the front seal. is this normal or does it mean my seal is bad and i need a new one?? ill take some pics of the leak and post them in a min the tranny is hanging down a little if that matters...


ok heres pics of the tranny seal, it stopped leaking shortly after i posted this so i went ahead and installed the new converter, after further inspection, wiping with a cloth and no new leaks i determined that the fluid must have been from the old converter?!... theres a pic of the engine bay after painting now its ready for the new engine the last pic is of a wiring harness plug that i forgot to label, can anyone identify this for me? its coming from somewhere on the tranny the car is just sitting too low for me to get under there and find out exactly where its from.

naf

iTrader: (7)

It's always a good idea to replace the front seal on the tranny when pulling a motor. The torque converter hanging down on it unsupported can cause a flat spot in the seal and a leak. Only costs a few $.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

yeah thats what i heard, i just have no idea how to change the seal myself(i heard you need a seal installation tool) thatd mean id have to rent the tool and buy the seal, and im guessing when i change the seal all the tranny fluid is gonna come out right?? thats the other reason i havent messed with the tranny...my plan is to get it running and if it needs to, then ill take it to Level 10(which is about an hour from here) and get the tranny completely done(or swap in a T56) but ill call and find out how much the seal is tomorrow and look at my manual to see if it tells me how to change the seal. if its not a big deal and no mess ill do it.

naf

iTrader: (7)

No big deal. Just pry the old one out and tap the new one in. There may be a little retaining clip that snaps over it.

No fluid will leak past. Just be careful not to nick the seat.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

ok ill give it a shot, since i had no problem at all with the torque converter, ill try to go get the seal today, my manual is totally useless when it comes to the tranny just tells me about the tv cable and how to remove the whole tranny doesnt even say anything about the torque converter... its a "haynes manual" is there one i can get that would be better? "chiltons" maybe?

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

the long awaited, long block...

now im waiting on a sand blaster for my headers then i should be getting her dropped into place

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

naf what sensor goes on the passenger side of the block near the dipstick? im gonna get all the sensors installed on the long block so shes ready to go in, is anyone against installing the carb before i drop it into the engine bay>?? it was removed when i pulled the 305 so i dont know how it would work out with the chain, i dont wanna damage the carb while transporting the engine into the car. but it would def be quicker and easier if i install it first.

rustrider73

the knock sensor,remember to use pipe dope or teflon tape and dont over tighten it

naf

iTrader: (7)

Put the carb on later. No sense taking a chance on dinging it up. Same with the dist if it's not already out. Will make it easier to get to the upper bellhousing bolts too.

You may want to install the ground strap to the rear head first though. Save trying to torque it on with just a little bit of room-it's easier to screw the other end to the firewall AFTER the motor's in.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

check on all of that NAF thanks so much... if i post a pic of the sensors i have can you ID the knock sensor for me ? thanks again... sure wish ppl didnt run atilla out of here, kind of feels like its just me and you naf

rustrider73

what am I wood
post your pic's I can I.D. em
why dont you pm or e mail atilla your buddy