loopy

iTrader: (1)

Got a little bit more done today.

I still have to put the front wiring loom in but it' so damned ugly I just can't bring myself to do it.

skinny z

Wiring loom notwithstanding, if you decide to go EFI at a later date, I might be interested in that carburetor!
Looking good loopy.
But speaking of the wiring, which loom are you referring to? I'll admit what leaves the bulkhead connector at the firewall is a little difficult to manage. I'm using the OEM style split loom but at some point I'll change to the braided style. Still split but better looking I think.
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/aww-510152

loopy

iTrader: (1)

Im' talking about the loom from the C100 connector forward. It's really ugly and had it's fair share of hacking over the years.

I just can't bear to use it.

That link you provided is really tidy. I'm thinking to simplify the wiring and as much as possible hide it.


What I would really like is a simplified front loom for carbed vehicles that comes from the C100 and leaves it to the owner to finish. That would allow me to route the wires and hide that awful set of relays out of sight

skinny z

There are C100 pinout diagrams available for almost all of the 3rd gens. There's a link here at 3rdgen.org someplace. You should be able to accomplish exactly what you're describing. In my case, there was very little left over. Maybe a couple of circuits. I re-purposed a few of them for items I added. Then for the balance, I built a new harness and fished it through an existing hole in the firewall. It ended up in the main harness. The somewhat unsightly split corrugated loom notwithstanding, it all blended together nicely and is kind of tucked down beside the brake booster and below the small relay centre along the top/driver's side of the firewall.

Check http://austinthirdgen.org/ for pinout diagrams. You may find what you're looking for.

loopy

iTrader: (1)

That Austin link doesn't seem to work for me Kevin

It turns out my k&n carb hat doesn' fit the centre float carby so that's my CAI out the window for now at least.

I brought a MH air filter in the meantime





I've got some silicon radiator hoses (red) on their way and some -an fittings and fuel line too.

I'm looking onto using a Walbro in tank 225lph fuel pump . Thatll make it easier to go FI later on.

skinny z

An in-tank pump is on my wish list. I've become partial to the Aeromotive Phantom pumps after being involved in a couple of installations. Pricey though.

https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/phantom-fuel-system/

The noise from my Holley Blue pump is a little annoying. I've been given another external pump of a rotary style which promises to be quieter. That may be my stop gap measure until I go for a complete in-tank system. Then I'll cut an access panel in the cargo area. Going through the hassle of dropping the exhaust and all of the rest is too much to have to do more than once.
I've had a cowl hood going on 4 years now and STILL haven't built a CAI for it. Plenty of designs. No results. Seems it's always something that is a higher priority. Like cylinder heads, torque converter, transmission, crossmember, exhaust......now it's the shortblock.

I'll see if I can't source a pinout for you through Austin's although I just went to the site and it does come up but somewhat unusually, it is identified as unsecured. Makes me suspicious. Especially since at the moment I'm away at a remote work camp and the internet connection here is public.

skinny z

Paste this into your browser search field and see what you get. You might find something useful but it takes some looking through (if you haven't come across this already).

https://www.google.ca/search?q=1983+...ih=486#imgrc=_

loopy

iTrader: (1)

Nice. Thanks mate

loopy

iTrader: (1)

Well still getting there very slowly.

Here's a new bit you may be interested in....






I've also decided to relocate the battery to the back so hopefully tomorrow I'll be making a start with running the wires

skinny z

EFI eh. What prompted that? (And what happened to that beautiful QFT carb?)
What's your plan for rear mounted battery? Location? External disconnect? Wire size?

loopy

iTrader: (1)

I guess in the end it came down to not wanting to mess around tuning. I still had to plumb a fuel pump and regulators etc as well as the the fact that the carb didn't work with my carb hat and cold air intake. After a fair bit of reading i decided to get the Holley system as it's the most complete and has the best after sales aupport. Not to mention best reviews.

I like the look of the engine bay without battery so decided to move the thing to the back. I'm toying with the idea of putting it where the spare tire lives of else it will be in the rear compartment. The juries still out on that one. I have brought 6mtr of 50mm2 battery cable for the main positive and will run dedicated wiring to the TBI system as well.

skinny z

I'm also considering the change to EFI if only because I may eventually go a supercharged route. Certainly, tuning is easier. (But I'm still a die-hard carb guy)
Regarding your rear mounted battery, I've seen a few examples of the battery in the spare tire well. Seems discreet enough. You may want to consider also running a main negative cable along with the positive and connect it directly to the block. I've read more than a few accounts of trying to troubleshoot an electrical gremlin after the relocation and it's often come down to the "frame" and sheet metal not be sufficient.

loopy

iTrader: (1)

I have had that thought but the wire was stupidly expensive ($28/m) so I was trying to cheap out. No doubt you are entirely correct.

My main concern at the moment is running fuel line and return. I may reuse the standard steel lines for now. They are within Holley 's specifications.

I'm also finally starting the exhaust system. I' using mandrel bent twin 2.5" pipe and have made it as far as under the passenger footwell at the moment.

Is there an optimum placement distance for the X pipe??

skinny z

I've used the factory EFI lines with mixed results. The 3/8ths supply seemed to be adequate however at one point I determined that I needed a return to help alleviate the vapour lock I was experiencing. I had previously removed the 5/16ths return line so I tried the 1/4" vapour canister to the tank line. It wasn't sufficient and I couldn't get the fuel pressure to stay stable. Ultimately I added a 3/8ths AN braided hose as a return and with my Holley blue pump, all is good. I'll be adding a better inline pump at some point however for now what I have seems to be doing what's required.
The exhaust on these cars is a royal PITA. I'm in the same boat as you are at the moment. The new transmission required a new crossmember (long story). The new crossmember forced me into building a new header to single exhaust y-pipe. At this point it isn't done. While my existing y-pipe is built from 2 1/2" stainless U-J bends (cut and welded) I'm leaning towards bending up my own replacement (I bend pipe for a living as an industrial electrician) and fitting it as one piece. The jury is still out on that one.
Concerning the best placement for the X/H merge pipe, it seems to me at one point we had discussed the results from my experimenting with the PipeMax program. In it, is listed the best distance from the collector to place the merge. I haven't been able to find it (here) and the program is in another computer that I keep around because it has this program installed. If it's not buried in this thread somewhere (I took a quick look and didn't see it), I can find it on my old hardware. Let me know.
Good to see you haven't disappeared entirely. It seems that being what this thread is, nobody else has interest in reading 8 pages of text (!) to come up to speed.

loopy

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I never intended this to become so long and convoluted but between me changing my mind and life getting in the way it' certainly become that way. At the end of the day it's just me getting advice and if it helps someone else at some later date that's all good too. Rest assured though Kevin it will have an end, hopefully within the next 4 weeks!


I'll have a scroll through for those pipemax specs.

Last weekend I ran the main wiring harness back around the engine bay and this weekend will be more exhaust, install fuel pump and plumb into the steel lines. I still have the 5/16 return and Holley says that's sufficient. I'l also make a start on the remote battery hookup ........

loopy

iTrader: (1)

A bit more accomplished today. Fuel pump and filters are in and exhaust has now reached the passenger floor pan area. Thats enough to give the fuel injection oxygen sensor about 24" of pipe before open air. Still messing with pulleys and heaps of wiring to do.




The power steering pulley was 3mm out so had to get the back machined to remove enough to line up the belts!




Exhaust is 2.5” . I gave up on trying to run 3” due to space constraints. Im using donuts and mandrel bends and I’m pretty happy with how it’s turning out. I’m waiting for some V band clamps so the pipe can be removed and rejoined easily. It needs to be that way as the starter won’t drop past the pipes. At this point none of the exhaust hangs lower than the front K member and chassis sub frames so it’s well protected





I joined into the steel 3/8” fuel lines where it came out over the side of the tank, inserted filter and pump and put a slight double flare into the steel line to rejoin with rubber EFI hose. I then cut the line again beside transmission and used rubber line up the side of the auto and into the fuel inlet on the left rear of the throttle body. This allowed me to stay well away from any hot exhaust.





It’s hard to see the old girl still on the hoist after nearly 2 years!!!

skinny z

I had thought that we had discussed PipeMax regarding exhaust pulse tuning and the like but a search turned up nothing. I'm somewhat suspicious of my search skills.
That said, with your short headers and unequal length "secondaries" I would think that the precise distance is not that important. An X/H pipe will help with the sound level though, at least as reported by the internet and elsewhere (Vizard comments on it in his SBC books). Your pipe work does look good. I've an opening for you here should you ever find yourself vacationing in this part of Canada. I'm in need of Y-pipe to go with the new crossmember.
You can't be too far off from being ready to start. At least closer to the end than you are from the start.
(You really ought to start a build thread).

loopy

iTrader: (1)

I found the pioemax measurements on page 7 mate. The x pipe distance is probably not doable and like you said, uneven secondaries anyway so I'm thinking to site it directly under the passenger where there's that factory heat shield tacked to the floor.

I'm hoping to get it wired next weekend then it'll be really close to start up!


As for a build thread , not sure I'm a regular enough poster!

skinny z

I think you have enough info and pictures for an excellent build thread.

loopy

iTrader: (1)

We got the main and Holley sniper power feeds done. Fuel and return lines finished. Radiator fixed in position and trans cooler lines in. Next weekend hopefully we will finish wiring and have a runner!!!





This powersteering pump has been a major headache!. To start with the old ps pump wouldn't fit my new brackets. I ordered a new pump which was compatible. When installed, the pulley was 3mm out of alignment with the crank pulley! We had to have 3mm machined out of the back of the pulley. So now the pulley was hitting on the heads of the tensioner and mounting bolts so we got a 45 deg cut put in outer web of the ps pulley and fitted mushroom head allen bolts. This gave the pulley enough clearance to run. Upon going to fit up the ps pressure hose we found the fitting no longer matched the pump

This required a visit to Pirtek hoses and a new fitting easi-flowed to the hose. Finally it all works!



The fan setup is to be a twin spal 12" setup. The water pump is controlled by a Davies Craig electronic water pump controller. The fans will be wired in series/parallel usong a 3 relay set-up with the water pump controller triggering them to run in series and then if it gets hot the Holley Sniper will trigger the relays to switch them in parallel giving full power. The advantage to this is that in normal conditions the fans will run half speed both using less power and creating less noise.

skinny z

Looking good Geoff.
Question: Does the water pump controller provide for variable speed? To me that's the critical part of getting an electric pump to work in a street application.

loopy

iTrader: (1)

Hi Kevin. . Yeah it does. It uses a mix of pulsing and speed control as well as after run to mitigate heat soak

skinny z

That will be something I'll look in to.
The electric pump intrigues in the sense that it will take zero HP to run once the alternator is disabled (via a switch) and an imminent 1/4 mile pass is planned. Further to that, as you mentioned, an after run feature, combined with the same function with the cooling fans, would really be a benefit when sitting in the blazing sun while waiting in the staging lanes at the local track. You could pull down engine temps quickly with the engine off. Those kinds of features I can really appreciate.
Now get the thing running and report back on the "Can you check my vortec swap list and cam advice please" aspect!

loopy

iTrader: (1)

Wish me luck Kevin!! Startup day is tomorrow

skinny z

Let's see. Your tomorrow is my today so that means a report should be due in soon.
Good luck Geoff.

loopy

iTrader: (1)

Alright. It took 2 days but was worth it in the end.
The Holley sniper starts amazingly as you'll see in the first video.

We got our first run in, needed to retime the distributor, took it out, replaced and it had died! A brand new MSD streetfire HEI Dizzy!

Luckily my friend has a corvette with a L31 engine so I borrowed his HEI .

Anyways........


This next was taken after a half hour drive home. You'll have to excuse the video, my friend had been drinking .......

Anyways Kevin, I have a huge thankyou for you for all the time you've put into educating and advising me. Like wise anybody else who has contributed to this thread.

THANKYOU SO VERY MUCH!

I just can't stop smiling at the moment lol.

Kevin,

One thing that may interest you is the awesome throttle response of the Holley. I'll upload a short clip soon.

skinny z

That much is obvious. I kind of grinning myself at the moment. Sounds and looks great.

A couple of questions:
What kind of timing are you running? Base. Centrifugal. Vacuum.
If I recall correctly, you're running about 10:1 SCR with that 276 cam aren't you? That engine will like a lot of initial timing. I wouldn't hesitate to start at 20°. Keep in mind that the Vortecs are an efficient cylinder head so total timing typically isn't more than 34°. That means the HEI might have to be modified to limit the total centrifugal to 14°. It, in stock form I think might have as much as 20°. You don't want to detonate your new engine into little fragments.
That said, I know your fuel octane is calculated a little differently in your part of the world. What is your premium fuel like? With the iron heads and their heat retention means that at 10:1 you'll want the best gasoline available.

I'd like to see some compression test results. My guess is you're north of 180 PSI. My 10:1 Vortec/276 350 was 190. Maybe you'll get around to a couple of cylinders and post some results. You have to check the plugs at some point.

Did I hear some lifter clatter? The XR276HR isn't that aggressive a cam however the ramps are reasonably quick and with the 1.6 ratio rockers, you'll want to keep close tabs on the adjustment. Here's hoping your valve train geometry is good. One thing about the Vortecs is that the stock cast iron guides are extremely durable and some miscalculation with the push rod length isn't nearly as punishing as it is with an aftermarket bronze guide.

Yes, I like that EFI. If I wasn't such a cheap dinosaur, I'd make the move myself.
As it is, I've picked a very clean and (what appears to be) rust free 82 Coupe. Now the decision has to be made on which chassis I dedicate to a track only car and which is going to be the street car. One or the other will probably get EFI. That's a ways off though.

Well done Geoff.
Are you ready for a build thread yet....?

loopy

iTrader: (1)

SCR was 9.4:1

What sounds like lifter noise was in fact caused by those rubber oil filler caps on the rocker covers leaking air. It goes away with a woosh of vacuum as soon as you lift one out. I ended up replacing one of them with a vented cap , solving the issue. You may notice the cap in later vids once I post them.


I don't even have a comp tester lol. I'll get onto that!

Timing was conservative at around 10. I never had time to modify the distributer advance curve. I left the vac adv disconnected for the initial drive too.

Plenty of time to sort this stuff as i save for the next round!


Really not sure about build thread !

skinny z

With that SCR I'm confident you could add another ten degrees of initial timing. While your throttle response is impressive now, it'll wake it up that much more. Again, you'll have to get into the distributor timing curve and examine what you have presently. Is your balancer fully degreed or do you have dial back timing light? And hook up the vacuum advance even if it's to ported vacuum at the moment. Full manifold vacuum advance can represent a whole host of tuning issues and it takes a bit of patience and perseverance to make it work properly but any vacuum advance is better than none if fuel economy means anything to you.

Does that mean you're not running a conventional PCV valve system? If not, I suggest you do. Breather on one valve cover. PCV valve on the other. I've incorporated an oil separator into my system. It's amazing the amount of crap that gets collected in the separator.

Looks like you have a couple of car guys in your crowd. Somebody must have one. And they're inexpensive enough.

I've been saving for a while now. Let me know when it ends...


Maybe something in the members Camaro section then. I think you would generate considerable interest.

loopy

iTrader: (1)

I'll gave to figure what died on my hei distributor. Has to be trigger module or coil. Once that's done I can play around a bit.

I have to get the exhaust finished and the car inspected to make it legal then I'll be able to drive and test the various limits.

As for another thread OMG! lol I'll think about it. The stuff I do probably flies in the face of all the purists around here!

Before I do any thing I have to move house again so you'll probably not hear a squeak from me for another couple weeks👍

loopy

iTrader: (1)

I started back into it today, finishing the exhaust finally. Its mainly 2-1/2" mandrel bent pipe, the bends formed from donuts and u pipes. Muffler is the dynomax 3" in/out with built in x over. I used 3" for the exhaust tips and v band clamps so the centre section can be dropped out if I go racing.

My son Derek. He does the welding.

Horrible car to fit twin exhaust in.
Walker dynomax.

loopy

iTrader: (1)

Kevin. Here's that sound bite you asked for months ago!

skinny z

Now that's handy.



I have to say I'm kinda liking the look of the short dual tips.
On as different note, what size are those tires? And rims. The reason is ask is because the aspect ratio on my computer screen is messed up and those look to be wider than stock..but maybe not?

Sounds excellent!

loopy

iTrader: (1)

Tires are rear 275/40/17 on 9.5x17" ridler 675 rims and on the front 245/55/17 on 8x17"


I have just purchased a Holley hyperspark ignition system. This is controlled by the efi computer and allows me to load up timing tables and opens up s world of tuning options into the future.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/hyperspark_ignition/parts/565-300

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/hyperspark_ignition/parts/556-151

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/hyperspark_ignition/parts/556-152

I'm madly trying to get the car legal atm so this stuff can wait till after that.

I'll get that compression test done once my other jobs are dealt to

loopy

iTrader: (1)

Ok. It's been a long time but I finally got some compression readings.

All cylinders 140-145 psi

Is that roughly what you expected Kevin?

skinny z

Hey Geoff. Nice to know you're still out there.
Seems a little low to me then again I haven't made the time to review your engine specs and all the related bits.
My second Vortec build (and spec) had this result:

353: 4.020” x 3.48”
5 cc piston
.030” deck
Vortec heads. Decked .006”. 63 cc (?)
Comp XR276HR. 276/282, 224/230, 110 LSA, 106 ICL, 64 ABDC IVC
Victor Reinz 5746 head gasket .026” x 4.120”
10.05 SCR / 8.08 DCR
Cranking pressure 185-190

That's at about 600' above sea level which plays a factor as altitude makes a real difference. Seeing as Blenheim NZ is just about sea level, that's not going to contribute to a lower test result.
There are a lot of other variables to consider too. Engine cranking speed. The number of strokes you allow the tester to inhale. I typically take several measurements while testing. The one pump result as well as the maximum achieved with however many strokes are required. That number (max pumps) can also reveal the condition of the ring seal to some degree.
That all of the cylinders were within a few percent of each other is a positive sign. The low numbers (to me) could be attributable to a number of factors as mentioned.
Is there anything about your build that I'm not considering?

loopy

iTrader: (1)

I dont think so mate. Although pistons are 12cc dished.

Yeah and 64cc head, 0.014" deck, 0.026" gasket

skinny z

Crunching your numbers again and I get 9.47:1 SCR, 7.6 DCR and a theoretical cranking pressure of around 180 PSI.
Like I said though, the testing procedure will change the results as much as any of the other factors. Sop will the tester used.
With that 7.6:1 DCR, around here that engine would run well on regular grade fuel with our octane rating of 87.
And despite what the calculators say, that DCR, I would think, would result in lower cranking pressures anyway. My similar build cranked 185 or so but then the DCR there was 8:1. And I( allowed the gauge to max out. Probably in excess of 6 pumps and a fully charged battery.

loopy

iTrader: (1)

Thats interesting. I'm wondering if the cheap *** compression tester I brought may be out of whack too.
With such close readings the procedure must have been consistent. The mechanic allowed 7 revs per test.

I might redo the test one weekend soon just for my own peace of mind.

I'll be installing the hyperspark ignition shortly. That'll give a lot more control of timing using my laptop. I'm looking forward to that lol

skinny z

There's every likelihood the tester could be giving a false reading. An engine up to full operating temps makes a difference too. Although getting the spark plugs can melt your gloves.
I'd like to see your results regarding the laptop controlled timing. At one point I had so many procedures for building a timing curve, for both mechanical and vacuum, that I'd kind of left well enough alone (or very possibly, not well enough alone). Having something electronic based has kinda been a direction I'd like to take but first things first. I'm still shopping for another shortblock. (It never ends...)
Good to see you making progress.