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Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
You are definitly right. Here is my close friends 2013 coyote. Runs mid 12s but has a tune, 3500 converter, tons of money in exhaust and a cai. Always fun beating a mustang with a turbo v6 street car. He also runs drag radials. Iirc ran mid 13s stock
Poking around on the internet shows the magazines reporting 12.7 to mid 13. They said if it has an IRS it is slower due to weight. If someone is doing better than high 12s in a solid axle something is up.
The IRS chassis not only weighs more, it might have less traction on launch because the alignment changes as the car squats.
As I recall, one of the strengths of the live rear axle is that the driven wheels stay flat on the ground. If all you have to do is go straight, on mostly smooth pavement, the live axle is the suspension to have.
I was under the impression Ford gave the 2015 Mustang an independent rear suspension because they're turning it into more of a Grand Tourer, and must have known they were sacrificing some of its drag-racing performance.
The look on the older gentleman at the end was priceless. It was the look of so that's what 191 cubic inches looks like slapping a mustang around.
haha yea I use to get alot of funny looks or people following me back to my pits to see the motor especially when it started to run mid 11s conisistnatly 191 cubic inches of old GM power
So we've all seen any given car at any given track run fast....and run slow. And of course let's not forget what our uncle's cousin has seen. After all this IS the internet.
.....so I went back through all the SS cars and Coyote GT cars, (2011 to present) and checked 1/4 mile times from Road & Track, Motor Trend and Motor Week. There were often multiple tests too, compiled for different stories throughout the given year. Given that times were compiled with different drivers at different tracks, with different weather, and different transmissions, most of the test averages were within half a second of the same car at a different time. Through 2017, the rough average shows the SS going from mid 13's in 2011 to low 12's in that time. The Mustang, from 2011, was actually faster....although it just didn't up the ante as much over the following few years. By 2017, the SS averaged about a half second faster. ....and in 2018, the new Gen 3 Coyote, with the 10 speed auto is again faster, running a fastest of 11.83, with many runs a tick under 12. The SS is 12.0 and 12.1s.
So. ....for an engine with 70 less cubic inches, in a drag race format where NO ONE actually races an engine in stock form anyway...... ....built by a manufacturer that has said that since 2015 the goal was to build a car that performs well for ALL customers, not just track enthusiasts, (a true GT) and yet was faster when it debuted, and is again faster as of the current model....
I struggle to see how it's slow.
While I don't race personally, many of my friends do, and I'm around the track pretty often. Every one of them can easily gap any SS or GT of any year, so frankly, they're ALL slow, not just the Coyotes. ....but my experience has been that of ALL the new muscle from Ford, GM or Dodge in stock or basic bolt on form......the driver typically decides the race.
magazines are definitely guilty of putting all sorts of stupid,unrepeatable and impossible ideas into the minds of motorheads and enthusiasts.hotrod tv used to make me laugh my *** off.
roadkill used to be cool because it showed the reality of most bolt ons,builds and high expectations with not so great results,until it turned into a big commercial......
i guess at the end of the day big name magazines and their offshoots/videos/tv shows need to sell advertisement,money needs to be made and the little guys need to be fleeced.
Last edited by 1986BANDIT; 08-30-2018 at 04:35 PM.
I do have huge respect for WhiskeySierra6 posting up detailed info (mods, times, dyno charts) instead of talking about what other people have accomplished. That gets a big thumbs up in my book!
I give a big thumbs up to a win by a guy I have money on. Don't care about magazine times or numbers, or who posts it up. Wins a win. ...and down here, while these cars aren't running quite as fast as the posted magazine times ( I agree), the driver often makes the difference more than the motor. If you disagree, that's fine, we can go on forever. You said it's slow. I say maybe slow-er, slow isn't a word I'd use to describe it. Maybe it's just semantics.
there is something undeniably cool about a new coyote powered mustang though.
i know ill never own one but damn they look sharp,nicer than the new camaro in my old eyes
(yeah,not as fast but definitely a good looking car).
Last edited by 1986BANDIT; 03-01-2019 at 03:02 PM.
Ya, the new Mustang is a great looking car (much better than the Camaro) and the sounds that come out of it are freakin' sweet. But the LS is a better engine for our cars (the core subject of this thread).
...In fact, while the LS engines are apparently wide at the top, they seem to be much narrower at the bottom...
...The Coyote is pretty wide from top to bottom, partly due to accessory placement.
Come to think of it, the LS Corvette motor in the top diagram adds up to a 30" width because of that alternator placement,
And the Coyote is 29.05" across the top. That's a surprise.
The Vortech truck engine in the top/left picture is apparently 24.5" across at the wide spot.
If you try different alternator mounts, would the LS motor narrow down to 24.5"? If not, and people are putting LS motors in old cars all the time, the width of the Coyote looks like less of a barrier.
(For another surprise, the 4.6L SOHC V8 is only 1" narrower than the Coyote, and that's only if you leave off the oil cooler. So, using an SOHC engine isn't an easier swap.)
PLEASE,FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LEARN HOW TO COMMUNICATE > > > > > > > P R O P E R L Y < < < < < < <
tbh
your sentence structure makes it appear that you are trying to convey your thoughts while high on meth,bath salts with a sprinkling of crack and fentanyl combined.
Last edited by 1986BANDIT; 02-28-2019 at 05:37 PM.
^ that's funny because "there is something undeniably cool about a new coyote powered mustang though,i know ill never own one but damn they look sharp,nicer than the new camaro in my old eyes(yeah,not as fast but definitely a good looking car). " is a hell of a run-on sentence.
I do not have any proof other than the sworn testimony of my wife who was in the car, and my father in law and mother in law who were in the car behind me, but I beat a C5 corvette with unknown mods by a fender from both a roll and a dig one night several weeks ago. And my car has severe false knock issues that limits it to about stock horsepower (see graph above). The timing is retarded so far that I run 87 octane in it and the Vette got embarrassed twice. The funny thing is, he about killed himself trying to catch up to me to race me. He gave me a wave as they drove off (or it might have been a bird finger, couldn't tell, but i'll give him the benefit of a doubt). I've owned 2 LS1 cars (see sig) and stock for stock and tuned for tuned the coyote blows the LS1 away. All it needs is tires to run a decent time at the track. They have too much power for street tires.
^ that's funny because "there is something undeniably cool about a new coyote powered mustang though,i know ill never own one but damn they look sharp,nicer than the new camaro in my old eyes(yeah,not as fast but definitely a good looking car). " is a hell of a run-on sentence.
if you take what i wrote in context it absolutely isn't a run on sentence.also, pay attention to the fact the thought is broken up and commas are actually used.
you can read what i wrote and NOT WANT TO JAM A SCREWDRIVER INTO SOMEONES EYE REPEATEDLY BECAUSE OF ABSOLUTE DIP-****-ISM.
the quote you copied was meant to have a period after "though".
typos are fine but an 18 sentence paragraph of spontaneous rambling based completely on incoherent thought is unbearably
annoying i hope you understand what i mean i saw a bus today it was a cool color what kind of spoiler do you have a fox body
is an awesome we need a coyote build in a camaro im a cool dude whats your name i forgot to check if the stove is off.
learn to understand and grasp someones point without being an utter asshat
I do not have any proof other than the sworn testimony of my wife who was in the car, and my father in law and mother in law who were in the car behind me, but I beat a C5 corvette with unknown mods by a fender from both a roll and a dig one night several weeks ago. And my car has severe false knock issues that limits it to about stock horsepower (see graph above). The timing is retarded so far that I run 87 octane in it and the Vette got embarrassed twice. The funny thing is, he about killed himself trying to catch up to me to race me. He gave me a wave as they drove off (or it might have been a bird finger, couldn't tell, but i'll give him the benefit of a doubt). I've owned 2 LS1 cars (see sig) and stock for stock and tuned for tuned the coyote blows the LS1 away. All it needs is tires to run a decent time at the track. They have too much power for street tires.
no,just no.what you wrote in your laughable response is your recollection of "thinking you are racing someone" and they do not even realize you are alive.you didn't beat a c5 vette with unknown mods,you tried to overtake a c5 vette that was casually cruising.
I do not have any proof other than the sworn testimony of my wife who was in the car, and my father in law and mother in law who were in the car behind me, but I beat a C5 corvette with unknown mods by a fender from both a roll and a dig one night several weeks ago. And my car has severe false knock issues that limits it to about stock horsepower (see graph above). The timing is retarded so far that I run 87 octane in it and the Vette got embarrassed twice. The funny thing is, he about killed himself trying to catch up to me to race me. He gave me a wave as they drove off (or it might have been a bird finger, couldn't tell, but i'll give him the benefit of a doubt). I've owned 2 LS1 cars (see sig) and stock for stock and tuned for tuned the coyote blows the LS1 away. All it needs is tires to run a decent time at the track. They have too much power for street tires.
Oh my I know everyone is entitled to a opinion but to say the coyote is superior to the lsx based GM is nuts.
I think you tried to race a car with cruise control on who pushed the + a few times......
At the most they are even in performance, potential, etc. But if comparing them as a whole... lsx and for many more reasons then one story.
A stock say 2014 gt for example runs mid to low at best 13s stock, tell me how that is so much better then a 1999 camaro z28 thay runs mid 13s stock as well 15 years before hand, else then gm was stupid to put a tiny 10 bolt rear in it.
Trust me a na 4xxhp coyote motor doesnt have too much power for stock tires. I've driven them arround alot and a few friends race them at the track specifically when they were stock, tire spin was never a issue, they only pulled like 1.80-1 90 60 foots.. but hey just my opinion and trust me I'm no lsx follower. There is a reason I've never had one. Big block power ftw!
RE: It fits in a Miata. Don't know why you guys are such wusses about it. (jk)
With four steel cams rotating way above the cg, the next picture is of that thing on it's side..... I agree that a japTOYlet might be a good place for a coyote.....
they also need A POWER ADDER to not suck which essentially makes them useless.
unless you like having all that extra expense and issues that arise from using power adders an ls is just better.
oh,an a cam change on an ls $500,a cam change in a coyote $5000.not for this cat!!!
if you take what i wrote in context it absolutely isn't a run on sentence.also, pay attention to the fact the thought is broken up and commas are actually used.
you can read what i wrote and NOT WANT TO JAM A SCREWDRIVER INTO SOMEONES EYE REPEATEDLY BECAUSE OF ABSOLUTE DIP-****-ISM.
the quote you copied was meant to have a period after "though".
typos are fine but an 18 sentence paragraph of spontaneous rambling based completely on incoherent thought is unbearably
annoying i hope you understand what i mean i saw a bus today it was a cool color what kind of spoiler do you have a fox body
is an awesome we need a coyote build in a camaro im a cool dude whats your name i forgot to check if the stove is off.
learn to understand and grasp someones point without being an utter asshat
I wasn't being an utter *** hat, I was pointing out the obvious irony. BTW, the use of commas does not eliminate the possibility of a run-on sentence.
"A common example of a run-on sentence is the comma splice. A comma splice occurs when a writer links — or splices — independent clauses together using only a comma. This is not what commas are meant to do!"
I admit that superior was the wrong word to use. I liked my ls1 cars very much. and my ws6 spun at the track on street tires too. they don't prep the track well on street night. the ls3 makes 430 flywheel hp stock, and thats 10 more than my stock 2013 coyote. but a manual coyote with a tune makes about 400 whp and 370 rwtq. with a 15% parasitic loss that's 460 hp and 420 foot pounds. far more than a tuned bolt on ls1.
Why swap in a 5.0 Coyote if it's about the cool factor or being different?
I've been driving 400whp-500 whp cars regularly almost daily since 2002. I'd only want a 5.0 Coyote in a swap car with the new ten speed automatic transmission. The 5.0's I've driven felt soft on the bottom end in normally driving without the ten speed automatic.
I think the 5.0 Mustang is an excellent pony car. For the DOHC experience, I'd buy a 2019 5.0 Mustang before considering the suggested swap. I think getting the CAN sorted out to run a 5.0 and A10 in a 3rd Gen would be a major effort with a lot of issues to over come.
The 5.2 flat plane crank Aluminator would be the cool factor engine to use. Definitely with a six-speed manual transmission. I think getting a GT350 or GT350R would be a better choice over swapping the 5.2 into a 3rd Gen.
GM is bringing a new DOHC engine to market, that's likely to be easier to adapt to a 3rd Gen than the Coyote 5.0.
However, if I really want to spin 8,000+ rpm it's not that hard to do with an LS if you plan the valve train correctly. There's a lot of used LS2 799 Nascar spec heads with titanium valves that can be a suitable starting point.
I think a hybrid 3rd Gen would be more fun or an all electric 3rd Gen, self driving too
I don't know how this thread evolved into arguing about grammar and mod for mod dick-measuring but what I do know is it would not be a one of a kind swap. There's already a guy in Fbody Nation tearing into a coyote swap on a trans am. Engine's already in and everything. Unless that's YOUR trans am, in which case.....keep us updated.
I think getting the CAN sorted out to run a 5.0 and A10 in a 3rd Gen would be a major effort with a lot of issues to over come.
This.
I would also consider an LT5 or Northstar swap before even considering a Coyote in a third gen if someone wanted to play with multiple cams, and 32 valves. Overrated though, because its been done, and guys went right back to pushrod immediacy (torque)...
Anybody know how much a single fully assembled Coyote head with it's two cams weighs? I'm curious to know it's weight vs say an iron SBC head.
Lets do some CPR on this thread..... Iron SBC 50lbs, Aluminum 25lbs, LS 24lbs, Coyote 22 lbs and the cams weigh 6lbs each, 2 per head that would be 34 lbs each....
Anybody know how much a single fully assembled Coyote head with it's two cams weighs? I'm curious to know it's weight vs say an iron SBC head.
Originally Posted by 427seven
Lets do some CPR on this thread..... Iron SBC 50lbs, Aluminum 25lbs, LS 24lbs, Coyote 22 lbs and the cams weigh 6lbs each, 2 per head that would be 34 lbs each....
^ Well done! Thanks!
I've read on another forum that Coyote and LS3 long-blocks had the same shipping weight, about 525 lbs.
The Coyote heads are heavier, but the LS-series block apparently makes up the difference in overall weight, and thus front/rear weight distribution.
I would have thought an SOHC V8 would work out well, with narrow-ish heads and the lowest possible valvetrain friction.
But Ford put SOHC engines in Mustangs for years and their power always lagged behind the Chevy LS.
Last edited by DanielC210; 03-08-2019 at 12:33 PM.
The dry weight of an LS is about 30 lbs less than a 4 cam Coyote, overall weight is only one aspect here. WHERE the weight is matters for everything except going fast in a straight line when you don't mind revving the **** out of the engine. If you need to handle, you need the weight low, and you need to minimize rotating weight. The worst kind for handling is rotating weight up high....
Don't get me wrong, any engine can be made to produce power, the configuration will determine where the power gets made. Useful relatively inexpensive power has always been the Chevrolet forte. Power is a product of torque and rpm, by manipulating those things you make it happen where you need it, you use the parts to do the manipulating...
posted in the "All motor coyotes" page on facebook, but coyotes are still mid 13 second cars..
They are. They're low 13 to high 12 second cars. I've looked multiple times for a car magazine that made a stock 5.0 Mustang go faster than 12.7 and I couldn't. They all post times of 12.7-high 13s. Car magazines are in the business to make (and exaggerate) new cars look fast and if they continually undersold how fast the Mustang was Ford wouldn't be giving them a car to test! Or is it that those magazine drivers just can't drive them as well as some random facebook/YouTube poster? Highly suspicious when all these guys on YouTube and Facebook post about their stock Mustangs going high 11s.
If you need to handle, you need the weight low, and you need to minimize rotating weight. The worst kind for handling is rotating weight up high....
I see where that sounds logical. It also seems to me that these days every car designed for handling has an OHC engine, except the Camaro and Corvette. If there's another pushrod sports car in production, that's made for handling, I can't think of it right now. GM is the odd one out for using pushrods in sporty cars.
Not that I'm trying to say the Coyote is the engine to have, if I have a Trans Am or IROC one day...
Originally Posted by Tibo
Highly suspicious when all these guys on YouTube and Facebook post about their stock Mustangs going high 11s.
Those guys say they have headers, ported intakes, and weight reduction. That's not my idea of stock.
And - maybe this is what you were really saying - it makes me wonder what mods they're not listing.
A few posts into this thread I was already convinced: If I get one of the cars I came to this forum for, I'm keeping a pushrod motor in it. A Coyote has it's virtues, but this swap isn't worthwhile.
Last edited by DanielC210; 06-18-2020 at 10:43 AM.
They are. They're low 13 to high 12 second cars. I've looked multiple times for a car magazine that made a stock 5.0 Mustang go faster than 12.7 and I couldn't. They all post times of 12.7-high 13s. Car magazines are in the business to make (and exaggerate) new cars look fast and if they continually undersold how fast the Mustang was Ford wouldn't be giving them a car to test! Or is it that those magazine drivers just can't drive them as well as some random facebook/YouTube poster? Highly suspicious when all these guys on YouTube and Facebook post about their stock Mustangs going high 11s.
the stock cars were limited by the tires. they come with either 235 or 255 p zeros stock, which are terrible. Way too small & hard for 420 horsepower stock, or 460 horsepower with a tune and mild bolt ons. I posted 3 examples of commonly modded coyotes running low 12s with a decent tire. My car is a daily driver, so i'm not putting drag radials on it, but I have yet to be bested on the street. I'd list my kills, but y'all wouldn't believe me anyway.
08-28-2018, 07:55 PM
(jk)
