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Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
all those poor priuses you've been picking on bet they are angry at getting bested by a brand new pony car with 400 plus horsepower and can barely do 13 second quarter stock.lucky you haven't run into a few 15-20 year old ls powered cars or you would be reminded why coyotes are slow and pretty and cost 5 k for a cam change.you could always pull up beside someone in a c5 and pretend you are racing them when they aren't looking.you could even "pretend" you won,yay!
Last edited by 1986BANDIT; 03-13-2019 at 07:28 PM.
congrats on the "SWEET RIDE OF THE MONTH" win,you've got a very sick third gen.
some day i hope to have mine look and run a tenth as good as yours.i just picked mine
up in late 2017/early 2018 give me some time.just picked up a vortec 350 last week.
im tempted by the banshee nose but i know i probably will never get one,
i do love the 91/92 gta/ta style as well.ive owned 5-6 third gen camaros
and this is my first bird,lovin it!!
this thread was about a coyote swap. I gave you my real world experiences being both a coyote owner and a 2 time LS1 owner, but for the most part I was met with plain ignorance. i'm sorry.
a)basically the ls stock will flatten the coyote(cartoon reference:like the road runner vs the coyote)
b)if you do mods the coyote is similar to a stock ls.(COYOTE DISGUISED AS A >>roadrunner vs roadrunner)
c)if you do the same mods to an ls it will decimate the coyote(like the road runner vs the coyote)
d)if you cam swap and put longtubes on a coyote and a tune it will be faster but cost $5000+(like an ultra expensive cyborg coyote in a road runner costume)
e)if you put $5000 into an ls it would embarrass the hell out of almost any coyote(like the "world dominating" road runner vs the "sad apologetic"coyote)
all jokes aside,the coyote is great,its down on displacement and overly complicated but no less a wicked platform for performance.
comparing the LS to a Coyote isn't fair,due to the lack of displacement and insane mod cost.this is why there are thousands of LS
powered foxes,they are cheap to make go fast and readily available everywhere.add an EBAY turbo to a junkyard 5.3 and get 750
horse easily for less than JUST the cams in a coyote.
Last edited by 1986BANDIT; 03-14-2019 at 04:06 PM.
stock coyote cams are pretty aggressive, and they can be thanks to the TIVCT. that's why a coyote lopes so hard when you lock out the VCT. Yes a cam swap is expensive but it is not necessary to make big power. Most coyote guys put blowers on before they even change the stock headers. So don't get too hung up over the cam swap cost.
seems odd putting a blower on a stock car,why not upscale to the next model instead of spending another $10,000 plus a tune just to be relevant with the camaro,charger,challenger,vette.
usually cars that are 22-35 years newer than a third gen "might" be more advanced and powerful.
obviously not in the mustangs case if you buy it and then get a supercharger on the way home,
then a cam change so you can keep up with the camaro/vette.ironically the mustang is known to look exactly like the current camry....
and you are out $15,000 extra........to reach the camaro's stock level...............
IF the only reason to own a car was performance i wouldn't own a Camry or a third gen.20 years is 2 decades of development and yet fords new coyote still struggles with a 20 year old ls
a camary is an generic mundane eyesore on wheels(unless its the new "mustang version") and creates instant narcolepsy in driver ,passenger or someone unfortunate enough to see one drive by.featureless eggs on wheels do nothing to inspire or excite the senses
IF the only reason to own a car was performance i wouldn't own a Camry or a third gen.20 years is 2 decades of development and yet fords new coyote still struggles with a 20 year old ls.
I somewhat agree.
You know what's funny.... you don't see too many guys throwing out how pathetic the 1969 Nissan Skyline was (it ran high 15's in racing form, as per Japan) to the new GTR guys when trying to make a point. I mean who cares what the old technology did, it was a foundation to build on. I cannot believe people are still insulting an 80's 305 engine, an engine no longer in production mind you, to make their newer cars feel more special. What year is this again? Oh that's right, 2019.
hey idk. why do some guys like to do cam swaps in 305 third gens just to still be slower than a stock 2008 Camry.
If you don't know the answer to that you shouldn't be on this forum. Worse yet, you do know the answer, but you choose to use this forum to poke fun at third gen's and the people who are enthused by them. You really should go find a japTOYlet forum. I will remember your name.
nice burn,the fact someone even mentioned a camry on here is almost sacrilegious.im not sure why this guy isn't
on the mustang forums,he seems like the desperate fanboy type.
nice burn,the fact someone even mentioned a camry on here is almost sacrilegious.im not sure why this guy isn't
on the mustang forums,he seems like the desperate fanboy type.
I am on the mustang forums. because I have a mustang. but this thread was about the coyote engine. I've offered my real world experience and knowledge regarding coyote and I've been nothing but trolled the whole way. but I can take it. so keep em coming.
You know what's funny.... you don't see too many guys throwing out how pathetic the 1969 Nissan Skyline was (it ran high 15's in racing form, as per Japan) to the new GTR guys when trying to make a point. I mean who cares what the old technology did, it was a foundation to build on. I cannot believe people are still insulting an 80's 305 engine, an engine no longer in production mind you, to make their newer cars feel more special. What year is this again? Oh that's right, 2019.
- Rob
Mr. Rob, I cannot believe people here are insulting the coyote engine, and making outrageous claims, like it takes 15 grand to make a coyote as fast as a 25 year old ls1. all I did was make an example as outrageous as he was giving. to troll the troll so to speak. I like 305s. I like ls1s. I've had both. and I love my coyote.
.... I've been nothing but trolled the whole way...
I tried at least twice to find a magazine that would print that they tested a stock 5.0 and it went faster than 12.7 seconds in the 1/4 mile. I believe that another member posted something similar when he looked and many members posted what they witnessed at dragstrips which fell in line with what magazines have reported. You have only offered unverifiable stories and internet Hearsay along with voiced displeasure when someone rebukes you.
Mr. Rob, I cannot believe people here are insulting the coyote engine, and making outrageous claims, like it takes 15 grand to make a coyote as fast as a 25 year old ls1. all I did was make an example as outrageous as he was giving. to troll the troll so to speak. I like 305s. I like ls1s. I've had both. and I love my coyote.
realistically i love coyote engines too.i love power,i love innovation i found itsjusta6 has a great youtube channel. im forced to love something that can be had for essentially "couch change" and make a ton of power.
its crazy when a junkyard stock 5.3 with ebay turbo kit is making 750+ for peanuts.i would love a coyote mustang,some of this is in fun and meant as humor as well.we are hot rodders at heart.i love mopars,fords,
chev,pontiac,buick,amc too!!my dream car is either a hemi road runner ,a 70 amx or an 70 aar cuda.there are hundreds of cars i would die to have.third gens are all about cheap horsepower and low cost per hp!!!!
i would love a 32 valve lt4 done,a northstar in a fiero,an aluminator cobra and love exotic,unusual non-run of the mill engines but my resources are limited by reality and financial limitations.
my friend has a fox and is contemplating dumping his kenne belle supercharged (and modded for intercooler)5.0 for a coyote right now,
its a gorgeous red 87 gt t-top done top to bottom full pro touring,no expense spared.he thinks coyotes don't sound as good (like a truck)
and this is actually making him second guess his decision.
I tried at least twice to find a magazine that would print that they tested a stock 5.0 and it went faster than 12.7 seconds in the 1/4 mile. I believe that another member posted something similar when he looked and many members posted what they witnessed at dragstrips which fell in line with what magazines have reported. You have only offered unverifiable stories and internet Hearsay along with voiced displeasure when someone rebukes you.
I'm fine with admitting 12.7 is an average time for a stock coyote. my point this whole time is if a coyote has a decent tire it can run much faster.
realistically i love coyote engines too.i love power,i love innovation i found itsjusta6 has a great youtube channel. im forced to love something that can be had for essentially "couch change" and make a ton of power.
its crazy when a junkyard stock 5.3 with ebay turbo kit is making 750+ for peanuts.i would love a coyote mustang,some of this is in fun and meant as humor as well.we are hot rodders at heart.i love mopars,fords,
chev,pontiac,buick,amc too!!my dream car is either a hemi road runner ,a 70 amx or an 70 aar cuda.there are hundreds of cars i would die to have.third gens are all about cheap horsepower and low cost per hp!!!!
i would love a 32 valve lt4 done,a northstar in a fiero,an aluminator cobra and love exotic,unusual non-run of the mill engines but my resources are limited by reality and financial limitations.
my friend has a fox and is contemplating dumping his kenne belle supercharged (and modded for intercooler)5.0 for a coyote right now,
its a gorgeous red 87 gt t-top done top to bottom full pro touring,no expense spared.he thinks coyotes don't sound as good (like a truck)
and this is actually making him second guess his decision.
I respect that. I'm not trying to be anyones enemy here. I'm here because I love thirdgens.
for what its worth, 2010-2012 gt500 exhaust sounds great on coyotes in my opinion .
I'm going to put the ported & large valve heads on tomorrow hopefully. gonna use & modify the pacesetter headers for the system. gonna tac the pipes up myself and then get my brother in law to tig weld em. then gonna have the whole system ceracoated. I just pray I can find all my bolts. gonna run a t3/t4 ebay turbo, air to air intercooler and 50lb injectors. probably keep the boost around 10 lbs because I still have stock ring gaps. (didn't know I was gonna turbo when the new short block was built). it does have hypereutectic pistons and moly rings.
you might want to try and get it running before ceramic coating everything.in case you have to change anything,just a thought....may not be necessary idk..
IDK IF YOU CAN USE HI-TEMP SILICON temporarily JUST TO PROVE IT OUT(THEY USE IT ON ENGINE DYNOS TO SAVE WASTING GASKETS)sorry bout the caps,dont want to re write it again,lol
btw I also have a z28 spoiler for my firebird. I haven't seen someone put one on a non gfx car. interested to see how it looks on mine. I will be painting the car nocturne blue
Mr. Rob, I cannot believe people here are insulting the coyote engine, and making outrageous claims, like it takes 15 grand to make a coyote as fast as a 25 year old ls1. all I did was make an example as outrageous as he was giving. to troll the troll so to speak. I like 305s. I like ls1s. I've had both. and I love my coyote.
Don't take things so personally, it's just discussion. I don't think anyone here has a problem with the Coyote engine, but then again remember where you are, as you're going to get the LSX nuts going crazy by implying that it may be better. Remember, when you even look at an LSX engine the wrong way, it gains another 100 horsepower and will soon start flexing its' muscle at you, which is clearly what is happening to you here lol. It's all good. Hey, when I was a kid running around the streets of New York City years back, my cousin installed a 425 Oldsmobile engine in his Iroc, which even at such a young age I considered it to be blasphemy. Think he was looking for a big block chevy at the time, but couldn't find one, but since he was a mechanic, he knew what he was doing. Was the fastest naturally aspirated car I was in back then, I mean tens in the 90's was very fast for the street. I soon let go of the brand loyalty mentality. So yeah, you'll have your engine brand loyalty with some if not most members. But int the end, it's all still air, fuel and spark.
btw I also have a z28 spoiler for my firebird. I haven't seen someone put one on a non gfx car. interested to see how it looks on mine. I will be painting the car nocturne blue
tbh the "camaro" spoiler is really a firebird spoiler originally and they stole it from the firebird-see 1969 trans am.my opinion ANYWAY.LOL...
i had a stock lg4 305 berlinneta for 10 years,i drove it daily winter and summer in canada and loved it(why did i trade it for an f#@$ing minivan?oh,yeah kids)great car and fun.
the non ground effects cars are awesome,the formula is one of my favorites too.i don't know if you can find the "photoshop" feature here anymore to see what it looks like.
there is something clean and honest about the way these cars look naked.
tbh the "camaro" spoiler is really a firebird spoiler originally and they stole it from the firebird-see 1969 trans am.my opinion ANYWAY.LOL...
i had a stock lg4 305 berlinneta for 10 years,i drove it daily winter and summer in canada and loved it(why did i trade it for an f#@$ing minivan?oh,yeah kids)great car and fun.
the non ground effects cars are awesome,the formula is one of my favorites too.i don't know if you can find the "photoshop" feature here anymore to see what it looks like.
there is something clean and honest about the way these cars look naked.
Yes Sir, I've seen it said that it was designed for the 82 Trans Am in honor of the 69, but was scrapped, and picked back up for the Camaro later. It might have been one of your posts that I read it on.
So that's what i'm quick to tell people when they start the "leave Camaro parts on Camaros" bit.
Man, you just can't make this stuff up.... the self-proclaimed "fastest N/A 2018 mustang 5.0 in the country" showing his best runs while getting his *** kicked by a Camaro and a Challenger.
to be fair i don't think the "n/a" mustang is playing with stock camaros and challengers here.the irony is funny but the other cars specs would be nice to be somewhat fair in comparison.i really don't know why ford will not just put a 351 in the mustangs and raise the bar a little.the 5.0 will always be the underdog,as we all know "there's no replacement for displacement" i would do infinite backfips for a shotgun hemi 65-70 mustang fastback or torino or thunderbolt or fairlane or.................
Ford is committed to the DOHC , and DOHC and big cubes don't seem to play too well for some reason.
And one more thing.... GM is going DOHC in the new vette, and soon, all their other vehicles...
This is silly. It may cost a decent amount to make a Coyote stand up against a bolt on LS but upgrades aside, look at 2 cars in stock form and compare pricing. You can be in a 2015 5.0 with low km for $25k (Canadian!) and not only will you have 435hp, but you'll have every option imaginable and a car that's pretty good at doing basically everything (power/handling/comfort/looks). To get in to an SS with the same kind of equipment, you're starting off in the mid to low 30's for a car that probably has higher km. Also, if you're going to compare a new Coyote against a 4th gen LS car, it's barely even a comparison. To get a clean well kept 4th Gen LS Camaro, you need to spend 20k and what do you really get other than the motor? LS is a better performance motor all day if you just want to go fast, but Ford never advertised the 5.0 as being something that will blow the doors off anything that challenges it. That's why there are big displacement Shelby's. Coyote motors are excellent at what they were made to do, which wasn't being ripped out and swapped in to Fbody's haha
FWIW, the new 5.0's destroyed the new 1LE SS in a series of half mile drags (many Comparison tests on youtube), although the SS bested it on the road course by far. The earlier coyotes weren't as impressive. My neighbor has a whipple'd 2018 GT and makes 720 at the wheels and run's 10's on street tires. I'm not a Ford guy by any means, but you have to appreciate an engine that is not under-valved making that kind of power through limited displacement. As mentioned, they have their place. I will give Ford credit to sticking with their guns and not just trying to copy LS1 architecture like other cam in block producers.
David Patterson (that dude in blue)'s 2014 (Gen I) coyote made 710 WHP in one of his latest videos with a VMP gen3 blower on 93 octane. Now, we also have to disclose STD or SAE and dyno types when rattling off numbers, and even then there's going to be some variation. His engine is stock bottom end, stock heads, stock cams.
the terminator or aluminators make stupid power with stock bottom ends and heads with forced induction too,ford has some serious innovation which breeds at least a little competitiveness among the big three.
it definitely isn't anything like the late 60's ,very early 70s with damned near a dozen serious muscle car manufacturers and multiple models vying for the horsepower/musclecar crown.look at just the gm A-bodies
alone cutlass / gto-lemans/skylark-regal,chevelle-beaumont were a hell of a diverse pack of brutal musclecars.mopar had a hell of a fleet of awesome cars,as did ford and even AMC had the rambler sc,rebel machine,
javelin,amx,gremlin(lol) now we have the mustang,the challenger and the camaro/vette
Ford is committed to the DOHC , and DOHC and big cubes don't seem to play too well for some reason.
The only reason why they don't play too well is because no one has ever tried it.
I was really disappointed when Ford developed the 6.2L V8 (AKA "Hurricane") for the Raptors and Superduties, and they didn't produce a four-cam version.
I remember when they were still developing the engine, they had a 7 liter version, and they were calling it the "777" engine, because it was 7 liters, it made 700 horsepower, and it revved to 7k rpm.
But what did they do with the Hurricane V8? It was ONLY available in a 1/2 ton truck if it was A) A Raptor, or B) a Platinum edition F150. So basically, unless you were prepared to spend about $50K on a truck, you couldn't get one.
All the rest were detuned versions put in Superduty pickups.
I seriously don't understand Ford's powertrain strategies some times.
Anyway, to stay somewhat on topic, I have a 2013 F150 with a Coyote 5.0, and it feels one helluva lot faster than all of the 5.3 Silverados that I drive at work. Once that thing downshifts and gets over about 3k rpm, it really takes off.
I still wouldn't swap one into a third-gen, though.
Wow some of you are living in a cave. Nelson built a small cubed Ford DOHC that made over 1500 streetable horsepower, but detuned it for the customer so he didn't kill himself. Never go by what the manufacturer can or can't do, and never go by what the backyard mechanic forum members can and can't do, as the big three always asked the true innovative street racers what they needed to do back in the day to get more performance from their products, and they do the same thing today, only those same innovative street racers are now professional engine builders and autocross racers. To think Nelson couldn't squeeze incredible power out of a naturally aspirated Ford DOHC, whether big cubed or small cubed, would be a ludicrous thought....
Ford is committed to the DOHC, and DOHC and big cubes don't seem to play too well for some reason.
Well, Ford combined DOHC and cubes when they made the Modular 5.4L (Ok, not really impressive), the 5.8L "Trinity" for the 2013 and 2014 GT500, and a 6L V12 for Aston Martin.
I read that the Trinity 5.8L was basically a bored & stroked Coyote.
It seems to me they could make a naturally aspirated version, if they wanted.
But they didn't.
Last edited by DanielC210; 12-27-2022 at 04:13 PM.
Reason: Well, they didn't, did they???
Ford is committed to the DOHC , and DOHC and big cubes don't seem to play too well for some reason.
The cylinders are spaced too close together. Can't create the bore size you need for big cubes.
It doesn't matter anyway because the Coyote cylinder head is made for the smaller engine that it is. The coyote head flows way less than LS3 and LS7 head.
The only reason why they don't play too well is because no one has ever tried it.
They kinda tried combining overhead cams and big displacement...
...Back when a "Mustang" was an airplane.
It had SOHC heads on a 27L block (1650 cid). Some versions made up to 2000hp at optimum altitude.
Last edited by DanielC210; 06-18-2020 at 10:52 AM.
03-13-2019, 07:19 PM
bet they are angry at getting bested by a brand new pony car with 400 plus horsepower and can barely do 13 second quarter stock.lucky you haven't run into a few 15-20 year old ls powered cars or you would be reminded why coyotes are slow and pretty and cost 5 k for a cam change.you could always pull up beside someone in a c5 and pretend you are racing them when they aren't looking.you could even "pretend" you won,yay! 
