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Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
Well my sbc 2 bolt main engine blew yesterday. Made a few good passes before hand with a best of 10.63@126mph. So I'm desperate to get another engine running and in this week.
A close friend had a merlin 509 550hp 575tq engine that I can toss in as soon as tonight if itll fit. I personally rebuilt this motor for him last year.
I'll post more as time come along but who has swapped a big block in? I know headers are tough to fit. But how about motor mounts? Sbc and bbc are the same? Do I need to knotch anything to make the engine fit. I'll continue to do some research ..
Our experience with a crate 502 was simple enough. Chassis was an 86 TA with a TKO 500.
Headers were Super Comps which pushes the collector out towards the rocker panels. I didn't much care for the result and would think that something else has come along in the nearly 20 years since the swap. A remote oil filter was used along with an oil cooler. That was mounted under the cover in front of the rad. There was also an issue with the valve cover and wiper motor. Its been so long though that I don't recall what the solution was. The particular car has been in storage since shortly after the swap and never did get sorted out.
Cant comment on what headers work but 1 7/8 will work for a 502 550hp just fine. If you put a more serious cam and head situation on, 650+ hp can be made and 2" would be better
It be alot easier to fit stuff if you motor plated it and remote mounted oil filter
I got 2 1/8 to fit pretty well so far although still tweaking passenger side but i have motor plates
Dang, sorry to hear that Mark! Goodluck with the big block swap, I'm sure you will get it done.
Thanks bud. I'm good at pushing the limits of stuff.. lol v6 to sbc to bbc now. I dont think I can go wrong with a merlin ii block, forged crank, pistons, and h beam rods next step 9 second car now with some help to the merlin engine.
Cant comment on what headers work but 1 7/8 will work for a 502 550hp just fine. If you put a more serious cam and head situation on, 650+ hp can be made and 2" would be better
It be alot easier to fit stuff if you motor plated it and remote mounted oil filter
I got 2 1/8 to fit pretty well so far although still tweaking passenger side but i have motor plates
I do have a remote mount oil filter with that motor so that should help. As for a motor plate... I dont know where to start for that
Sorry about the 383.
It looks like you are going to have to reconfigure EVERYTHING to get that big block to work.
I would try to stay SBC, just go bigger and stronger. You still have the heads and entire top end.
Ha dont worrie I dont them anyways. They have been removed for a few.years now.
also the deck on this motor is 9.8 which is stock height I believe. The exhaust is the only thing thats going to be a pain. Else then it's a tight fit. It should slip right in and bolt up to the trans and motor mounts.
No interference with the wiper motor assembly? At a minimum we had to use the low profile cast factory valve covers and still had to fiddle with the wipers.
This is with OEM engine mounts.
Damn that is a beast. What trans are you bolting up to it?
Bolting to a custom hughes th350 with a transbrake. Rated at 800hp. Worked well behind the wild 550hp sbc. I contacted ptc about my custom 8 inch converter. They said that it should stall at 5200rpm behind that big block. And shift at 6200-6500. The 509 peaks up at 5900rpm so hopefully we are ok. They say its good enough for 600-650tq... the merlin is 585 tq as it sits if I dont play with it so hopefully they are right. I'm guessing 11 flat or a touch over with this 540hp 585tq bov block. I ran 1.47 60 foots with the small block. I'm hoping for 1.50s with the heavy big block. Merlin 509 weights 650lbs they say
I know it worries me. Peak rpm on my last motor was about the same. Shift 500rpm over peak is 6400. So a gap of 1200 rpm.. which is ok for drag only but That's alot ot rev for a big block even if it is bulletproof. I wana put a roller solid in it badly. And new alum heads but that I'm sure will push it up to 700hp which requires me to upgrade some things....
Idk what specific internals are in it but 6500 isnt alot for most bbc lol
The guts are:
Mahle coated Manley 12cc dome forged pistons
Eagle 4340 forged crank
Eagle forged H besm rods 4340 with l-19 bolts
Merlin ii iron block. 4 bolt main with priority oiling, blind taps, and some other things. 4.5x4.0 bore and stroke
I would think this would be safe to take to 6500 all day long if not 7000 all day when I have a bigger cam. This one I have is basically the same as the xr288hr I had in the small block. Same durration exc. This one now just has some more lift
Carnage... looks like it was the rod ot the crank. Mabey spun a bearing and that's what made the rod take it exit? They were those 51xx forged eagle rods and eagle bolts.
Perhaps I'm too much old school but I still like the BBC.
I've been trying to finagle the 502 out of the Firebird for years now but the "owner" (despite what he owes me in terms of storage ) is too rich to give a crap about his nice Firebird and drive train slowly returning to the earth.
Looks good Eddi. Waiting for results. Then I can really rub the Bird's owner's face in it. He gave up as the car was unmanageable at the strip given his car "formula" (all street, no suspension).
I have no doubt whatsoever that you'll make it happen.
Header parts will be here today. 2 inch kit with slip on collectors 2x3.5, weld up tubing kit, bbc flanges, new header bolts. I'll reduce down to 3 inch stainless and hopefully run it out the fender. Pure race car now. A 509bbc with fender exits is going to be loud.
my 2 month old baby has spent more time in the garage then most teenagers...lol
Yesterday read a three year old thread with people arguing back and forth about forced induction options, OP still hasn't gotten anywhere.
And here's Eddie, with a Big block in his car within a week of blowing it up.
Not trying to bash anybody, just love the variety around here.
haha yea its wild at times on here. If you know me, you know that stuff happens and I've went from a 140hp v6 to a 300hp turbo v6 to a 400hp turbo v6 to a 500hp sbc and now a 550hp bbc. Ever changing but this puppy is built to take the power.
Finally got some good specs on the motor.
A very mild 509 merlin ii cnc cast iron 4 bolt block.
Crane 296-2 cam (236/246) under .600 lift. 9.5:1 compression. Je forged pistons, Manley forged h beam rods, eagle 4340 forged crank. Grumpy Jenkins heads (345cc intake runner 2.30 valve) Merlin single plain intake, holley 850 with proform intake. S60 4.10 gear, ptc custom 5k converter, th350 with a brake, race weight 3420lbs in the process of building headers at the moment.
Originally Posted by 3rdgenmaro
Motor swap looks good. Cute kid too.
Thanks! Tool me only 2 hrs to swap in motor and hook everything up. It's going to take me 20 hrs to build headers.... but itll be worth it. Everytime I go in the garage she is there with my. Teach them young!
That sounds like it should make alot more than 550 hp. 345 cc heads should flow decent. Thats a good sized head for a 509, on the big side. If they are like the darts, 650 hp is common with hyd rollers of that size but over .600” lift.
When I first saw the title of the thread I thought here we go another dead end. So happy to see it was fasteddi knowing it would actually be done and right.
Everytime I go in the garage she is there with my. Teach them young!
That's great. That never worked very good with my daughter. She never liked to be put down if she was awake. Then by the time my son was born, I had two and that didn't work! But now they are starting to help me more and more.
Carnage... looks like it was the rod ot the crank. Mabey spun a bearing and that's what made the rod take it exit? They were those 51xx forged eagle rods and eagle bolts.
Was there damage to the vehicle? underhood area, hood? Did the piston stay in the bore?
Was there damage to the vehicle? underhood area, hood? Did the piston stay in the bore?
Pistons stayed in the bored. So no damage else then the engine
Originally Posted by midias
When I first saw the title of the thread I thought here we go another dead end. So happy to see it was fasteddi knowing it would actually be done and right.
I'm always committed to a build lol I'll admit in addicted to building up race cars and racing... seriously.
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
That sounds like it should make alot more than 550 hp. 345 cc heads should flow decent. Thats a good sized head for a 509, on the big side. If they are like the darts, 650 hp is common with hyd rollers of that size but over .600” lift.
There’s definitely potential in that setup
these heads supposedly flow 366cfm at .600 lift. Almost 400cfm at .700 do else then they weight a million lbs they seem to be good. A big solid roller, I think would make this a 650hp engine quite easy.. and with a 950cfm+ carb.
The guys on chevelle forums do alot of bbc hyd roller stuff and 600+ is common with 468-496’s let alone the 509-540 stuff. Alot of them are closer to 10-11:1
The guys on chevelle forums do alot of bbc hyd roller stuff and 600+ is common with 468-496’s let alone the 509-540 stuff. Alot of them are closer to 10-11:1
If I go a notch smaller on my compression chambers and get my quench at .040 my comp will be up to 10.0:1 which will help. A nice roller is definitly in the mix soon.
Headers are going ok so far. Going to be exiting out where the batt was at before. 2 inch primary's 2 1/2 hrs in so far. Some heat wrap and these puppy's will work out great.
06-18-2018, 08:47 AM
