xx138xx

+1

Thank god I live in Texas, but if people from cali keep moving here its gonna get ruined just like the place they left.

Socomclinger

I have a ? I'm changing headgaskets on a 1991 5.0 tbi and the hose's to smog pump are missing and other stuff like the cat has already been removed can I remove the smog stuff without makeing ck engine light come on like brazing shut the tubes on the manifolds

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Regular npt plugs fit in those holes, I think it's 1/4". Keep the smog tubes just in case. You never know if your area will require emissions testing in the future.

Sinfulrelations

another thing to consider is

if you can make your car run within standards with just a cat or two i dont see the big deal, i know federal requires visual but honestly the way they requre everything, its a bit insane, but i also know that there are some fairly mean cars in cali that pass emissions and have all the stock components on them just my .02

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

More and more states (other than the communist peoples republic of California), are exempting older vehicles because their simply isn't many of these vehicles left. Their contribution to so called pollution is minimal, if even measurable.

My opinion - if you have a stock car and everything works why tinker with it. But if you're doing an overhaul, or if these components have failed scrap 'em.

-- Joe

pontiacdog

I live in Finland and here the inspector doesn't care if the AIR system is there or not.
The regulations for emissions (old cars only though) are SO loose that I could have a factory inside my car and it would still pass.
Heck, I've never had cats in my trans am and to some people that's probably weird.
Yup, I got EGR blocked, cats removed and now the AIR is going off.

So I'm guessing I will remove that thing. I won't throw it away but it's always nice to clear some room in the engine compartment..

stroken85z

this thread is pretty damn entertaining

tom3

STill have the system on my car but I did unhook the line to the middle of the cat. converter. After having the rear bed come loose in three aftermarket converters I finally figured out that maybe the air was overheating the "glue" that holds the bed in. No problems since anyway.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

This may have been true when this poster posted this back in 2012 , but , here in 2014 , a state most certainly has done just that ....

I refer , of course , to Colorado state law permitting the recreational use of pot while the feds still consider it a jailable offence . There are folks right now being driven around in Limos on reefer tours , and I see no cadre of federal storm troopers putting the state on lockdown for this now legal hempfest . remember , we ain't talking medicinal here , but full on legal toking just for the sheer fun of it . Has this not , in dramatic effect , nullified the fed law ?

I thank God that not only is my car 100% intact and so could pass an inspection anywhere , but also our inspectors aren't **** jerks about old cars . I may have to fend off several offers to buy my car whenever it's sticker time , but I never worry about whether or not I'll be getting my sticker . Oh , and , one more talking point here , is that not every third gen came with an air pump , to wit my 89 V6 most certainly came from it's factory without one

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Hopefully we won't get him started again on his fall in line rants, but yes, states are starting to tell the federal government to go stick it as they should. The purpose of federal law is to guarantee rights among ALL citizens, not to impose restrictions. We let it get too big, now it's time to fix it.

-- Joe
-- Joe

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

+1 to that idea.

I've never understood why, if your car passes an emissions sniffer test, why you need to pass the visual. Makes no sense to me what so ever.

swittke1217

Hey if u took the air pump off did u have problems with it cranking cause I took my off was running perfect now it won't start for some reason after I took the air control stuff off any ideas??

rusty vango

how about ,this is exactly the kind of thinking that the emissions ***** feed off of. we do not need to goad them any more than necessary. besides that. its getting harder for us "as it was built" crowd to find the emissions equipment,AC parts ect. that some yahoo took off because it "looks better". its your car ,but don't come here looking for much agreement

rusty vango

he means we have enough new members touting all manner of "fixes".unless you are building a track only car,you really should not rip out what ever you don't like the looks of. and as a parent I want my kid to have cleanish air to breathe,and so removing emissions equipment is frowned upon by me and others on here.bottom line ,think before you post.

ChargerBill

rusty vango
Why do you think race cars deserve an emissions pass?
Race cars are not "green".
Also, what is "cleanish"? Are you comfortable with your kids breathing race car emissions?

If you are serious about reducing emissions, recycle all of your cars and gas powered equipment and start riding a horse to work, etc. Put your money where your mouth is.

There are plenty of third gen owners that have removed the AIR pump, etc. and your views are the minority.
Frankly, I don't care if you or anyone else "frowns upon it".

Furthermore, emissions impact was not part of the the scope of this thread.

You should think before you post to a 19 month old thread.

Good job, wise guy!

Fletch Formula

I know this is an old thread. But it answered most of my questions. Along with some other ones I read before this one. Does anyone have a picture of the AIR pump removed? I'd like to see how you did it an what size belt you used.

I just realized this thread has 4 pages and is current up to April. LOL

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Nothing like bumping an old thread!

It's not legal to remove emissions equipment. Won't pass emissions if you live in a place that tests for it.

I'd recommend getting the delete pully and running a normal size belt.

Fletch Formula

I'm going to use a newer Magnaflow High Flow CAT. That should get me passed any smog test. Where I live now in South Texas. They don't even do emissions test. But I'm about to move to Hawaii. I'm not sure what they do there. But the headers I'm installing don't have the tube coming out of them.

markjc2002

absolute drivle and garbage! let's take these one at a time. how can injecting cold air into the exhaust system allow the engine to heat up? do you think we are kindergarteners? number 2 since there is a fan belt directly connecting the smog pump to the engine's crankcase how can it be cycled off? The answer is it never is again do you think we just fell off the turnip truck yesterday? unfortunately you're probably used to just dealing with sheep, imbeciles and idiots that just fall over your every word but we think, we actually think therefore we know that you lie!

tealman92

Ill simplify it for you. Adding Oxygen to the exhaust once it leaves the heads continues the burning process of the unburned fuel thats leaving the combustion chamber as it flows down the exhaust system just like blowing on a fire creates a higher more intense flame. It does the same thing to the cat it creates more heat to burn up the unburned fuel that leaves the engine thus resulting in a cleaner emissions.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Hahaha. I love the new members.

1) Injecting extra air into the catalytic converter aids in burning left over fuel mixture in the exhaust, and heats up the cat. What is hotter, a lean burn or a rich burn?

2) The smog pump outlet is connected to a set of valves, which are electronically controlled via solenoids. (those are magical devices that open and close when they are energized). These solenoids, when open, direct the flow of air to either the exhaust manifolds, the catalytic converter, or atmosphere.

-- Joe

tom3

New member about to get off on the wrong foot here I suspect. Did anyone say anything about heating up the engine? What is the purpose of the diverter valve in the AIR system? But the biggest reason I can think of to remove/disconnect the pump is that there are no decent replacements for those old pumps. I'm on my fourth rebuild, all are noisy and fail pretty quick. Just a pain in the *** to keep beating this dead horse. And injecting that air into the middle of the converter seems to overheat that rear cat. bed and loosen it up, rattles like a cement mixer full of scrap iron when cold. My system is still intact but I'd like to ditch it for sure.

Saar

alternatively, could think of it as adding enough free oxygen into the exhaust stream to bring the average somewhere near(or at least closer to) stoich, which is close to where the exhaust temps will be highest. the AIR pump is really only going to be active when the AFR is noticeably richer than stoich.

there are plenty of electric ones starting in the early 90s(at least from GM) to choose from that could probably be adapted without too much headache.

Johngypsy

Old subject, but to shead some light on this matter to new readers:

Do we need our EGR, and A.I.R sys, depends on the owner on how he feels about original look to the car, I say it's not a race car as we all know this, they are fast to the point already and we can do a ton of mods to get them without the taking out the air sys,

Yes it has it's ups and downs to this,

First off fact: the car will loose about 15-20% resale value it's old guys and we just want that 80's look and older feeling, so leave it on, the trouble with this on is that the passangers side valve cover is a mess and knuckle breaker to take off and even change out the plugs and wires on the same side,
We have to live with it,
It's a classic guys, no need to go there, leave it alone:

Other hand of you don't care and want the room and about 4-17hp gain? Then yes it's worth only the owners way how he wants it because he bought it, he fixed it and he wants it the way he does:
BUT BEWARE A.I.R Removel guys this:

Things needed to do,

1) 1 days work of labor so u just don't leave it sitting there and waiting to fix it right,
2) must spend quite a few hundred to remove it, not just the air but the entire sys: sure u can cap them all off but to delete the sys u must do this job the proper way and do it right,
3) new belt or pully delete
4) EGR plate cap off
5) jack up the car to remove the cat plastic to disconnect it right and or buy a new or used cat, which u will have trouble finding a used one so must go new,
6) the exhaust sys for the headers also have the air set up there to, so must get a new or used set of headers or exhaust manifolds to put back on with new gaskets and bolts
7) and finally the big one---- u must burn a new chip to fix now your codes flash flash flas (pause) flash flash flash flash 34, code and must program a new chip to now tell the computer that u no longer have a air sys or EGR valve in the car,

If u don't get a chip your car will over heat and after u spend countless of dollars replacing, water pumps, water inlet termastates, hoses, cooking fans and can't figure out what is going on???

Remember your air sys is made to heat up the cat and also make it breath to the point of temperature and this will cause heat that can't be stoped into the engine, so just like u have a match fire in the motor, no water or air fans will help it cool, it will continue to get even hotter to the point of head gaskets or damages to the intake gaskets causing the water and oil to mix up, and then part it out or just junk it then or leave it sit until some one comes and makes u a crazy offer that u will have to let it go for dirt cheap!!

I 100% agrees with the rest of this team here who say it's not worth the risk of
Removing the air sys, as a parts 3rd generation guy here in Houston tx, I have had tons of costumers Coke to me and ask me if I have a smog pump to put back on the car to bring it back factory and also to run right again without all the listed things needed above, I sell them pretty hi because tons of guys just don't know the consequences to what will be the outcome to this all in totally removing it,

This is not to scare you guys but to encourage u to just leave it alone and move on to making it great for a daily car or even a street car performer.

If u go up by 1 inch on tbe exhaust sys u just done the work of the performance if not more by removing the air sys and EGR delete, not a big deal, just leave it alone,

The company's who sell new parts at any local auto parts stores around the world had also seen this ans also know this beause how we need the air and EGR to go back on these cars to. So they now sell these parts at a 75% mark up, remember back in the day u can buy a EGR and air pumps for 15 dollars to up to 29.99? Not any more litterally 99% of stores now sell them for 80 dollars and up for just a after market EGR, BECAUSE THEY ALL KNOW WE NEED THEM TO WORK RIGHT, as they also know it's to much to convert to delete set ups....

Well, I just hope that this article u read u can sleep on it and hope that u come up with the right decision to do this car right, again not a difference to the feel, speed or even movement of Performance,

God bless all Tpi and tbi Camaro guys

John
Iroc z parts and supplies
Houston tx

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Please stick to selling parts and leave the tech info to the professionals.

Thank you.

-- Joe

???

iTrader: (5)

this might be the most amazing post I've read on the interweb.

Johngypsy

Thanks ao much
Just wanna hear back one day how nice your 3rd gen is, I love these cars so much that it's not funny, and just want to see u guys happy and especially have no regrets in decision making and I know that u will go with the right choice,

From Iroc z parts and supplies in Houston tx,
God bless
John

???

iTrader: (5)

ugh


sadly, it's to late for me, I removed my smog pump and my head gaskets are melting from the heat

/sarcasm

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I replaced my "Air pump" with this one, do you think I'll be ok?

-- Joe

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Sure , once the swelling goes down , , you'll be fine ......

cosmick

This '86 I just bought in Idaho is missing most of it's emissions controls because there's no inspection there YET, so now I'm having to try to hunt down each and every piece to cobble it back together.
This is the argument in favor of the LSx swap, but there are still a few LG4 Caprices / Monte Carlos to raid from. But if anyone wants to offer me a great price on whatever you're removing, feel free to send a PM.
Right now I'm trying to sell the non-computer carb / diz / IM to fund the legal goods.

cosmick

Oh, and BTW, if you have any clue what you're doing, EGR WILL help MPG.

cosmick

This would be valid IF you could pass the full Federal Test procedure every year, without all the things you want to run without, but it can't be done, or GM would have done it. Wait, it can be done, they designed the LSx to not need things like air injection. But the traditional SBC wasn't.
The point of combining the visual with the sniffer is that if it can't pass both, then there's no way it could pass the full FTP. Automatic fail, long before teens changed the meaning / usage of the word fail, but it's a fail that way also.

sootie007

Emissions ...

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Yet? Most states are abandoning their inspection programs for pre OBD-II vehicles. A number of other states have enacted laws getting rid of visual inspections.


-- Joe

TylerSteez

iTrader: (3)

this thread always comes back to life lol

Hawkeye1980

iTrader: (3)

heck I had my dual cats gutted years ago. Never a problem. Now I want to gut the A.I.R crap too. I live in NY. Mechanics here say they only check the safety stuff on the visual, horn, lights, etc. Will consider the removal some day. need to get some stupid codes addressed first!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

If it's a stock car and everything is working I'd just leave the stuff alone. Even a minor increase in HP over stock is laughable, and a 25+ year old engine isn't going to make as much power as it did on day one anyhow.

However, if you are doing a complete build, I just toss that stuff in the scrap metal pile. I'm not going to put a smog pump on a 600hp car.

-- Joe

JimmyRuckus

I guess I don't understand why people get so uptight about removing this garbage. Either way is fine. (leaving it on or off) I live in KY. Many people remove cats, EGR on diesels, and even DEF systems now. So a little smog pump seems pretty damn stupid to get worked up about if you ask me. (Mine was already off when I bought my '84 Z. Not going back on.)

tom3

What the heck, VW - one of the biggest car companies in the world - has been selling new vehicles without proper smog gear for years and nobody complained. But the biggest beef I have with mine is the mid cat air injection sure seems to ruin the cat, rear bed comes loose and rattles like hell. On my fourth replacement converter in 6 or 7 years. Aftermarket junk maybe?

JimmyRuckus

Probably so. I would take the thing off if you think it's costing you money. Sure looks a lot better at the least. But I'm just an ignorant farmer so don't listen to me lol.

Biggd4355

Where do I get the plugs for the air rail delete

Biggd4355

Where do I get the plugs for the air rail delete? The threads seem to be peculiar.

Hawkeye1980

iTrader: (3)

x2, would like to know as well please!

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Mcmaster carr. You would have to do some searching on here, but its somewhere. I found it once. Pretty sure it is actually an inverted flare fitting, but a pipe plug will work. It will just stick out some. I hate to be one that always says search, but I know its out there.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Ebay has some nice shorty stainless steel headers now. If you were going to remove the smog stuff and plug the factory manifolds, I would swap the manifolds for those.

-- Joe

Biggd4355

if a person is really committed, they can go to a wrecking yard and get some truck exhaust manifolds

mmadden55

If it is more than 25 years old it doesn't matter.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Those typically crash into the frame rails.

-- Joe

Biggd4355

then some pre smog 350 , 327,305,283 car manifolds.