Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Engine Master Header Challenge:


The logs shown cost roughly $369. The Mid tubes roughly $600 and Long Tubes are $1000.



they gain only 9 HP and 12 tq over the mid tubes and 40 HP and 20 tq over the iron manifold.

So based on the results, are the long tubes worth their $1k price tag?

I would have a hard time justifying it.

Engine Masters Header Challenge

redneckjoe

i think it would have been interesting to see mid-length headers with the same size collector and pipe size. i hate when they're trying to compare apples to oranges.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

The point being Long Tubes don't gain as much over mid tubes as everyone seems to think.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Look at the 3000-4500 rpm range. LT's picked up substantial power. You will notice that if you want a tight converter or are a manual trans car

Short primary lengths cater to high rpm. Thats where the tuned wave reflection effect starts to work. Long primary lengths are tuned for lower rpms, typically. Thats why you see the big jump in botom end but because of the diameter and collector size, the long tubes still can pass the flow and dont lose power up top to the short/mids length stuff.

Long tubes typically are for overall curve shape. Superior bottom end. If you drag race and had a high stall converter then that low end may not mean much.

They each have their place.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

I looked at it again and I just can't wrap my head around it being with the additional $400-500 for long tubes for that relatively small gain.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

40+ lb ft change on a 500 hp motor is huge!!!!!

redneckjoe

i think the difference would have been smaller if the mid-length headers had 3" collector and pipe diameter. or if the long tubes had the same small 2 1/2" diameter.
the torque down low is great for a daily driver. worth that much more money? it'd be hard to say without a true comparison.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Looks like those cast manifolds flow would flow a lot better then many of the stock manifolds.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Yeah it's possible. They only have 2.25 exhaust ports though.

92BLKL98

Kind of makes those BRP Hotrods mid-length headers look good with my LQ9 build, also I believe they do have a 3" collector. I bought some of the Racing Innovations headers and what a poor fit.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

As Orr89rocZ says, if you take away the peak, , the usable rpm range is hugely different between the mid and long tube headers. 40HP/tq or so from 2500-4500. That's where you have to judge the long tubes at. Not so much the high end peak number.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

I'm also building an LQ9. What's wrong with the Racing Innovation Headers? Can't beat the price on them for long tubes. I've been eyeing them as a possibility along with the BRP mid tubes.

92BLKL98

Terrible fitment at the sub frames, the collector touches on the right side and only about 3/8" clearance on the left side. Several pics I've seen on this site shows the same fitment issues I had so I know it is not a production variance in the car like the guy at RI says. They do look nice and from the top of the engine compartment but when you go underneath they don't work. I've seen some guys wrap them with cloth wrap but that is a cheezy way to approach the problem. I'm now weighing on the Hawks SW headers or maybe the BRP mid lengths. I'm not building a car to compete with a full on race car just fun on the street, so it may be the mid length headers.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

​​​​​Wow, OK. Thanks for that great review! Cross them off my list of headers. That leaves me with the BRP mid length or the Hooker Black Heart long tubes. Good thing I don't have to make a decision just yet.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Tell you what, my buddies heads cam ls1 4th gen ta ran mid 11's at 120 mph with mac mid lengths. Ran harder then most other guys setups around here with long tubes

Mids can work, especially with highstall converters. Wont see low end rpm much

92BLKL98

So you're saying they aren't that good on the street, I plan on a 3000RPM Vigilante converter.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

As am I.

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Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Mids will work fine on the street. Higher hp motor you build the more longtubes seem to help down low because the cams are generally bigger on higher hp builds, which generally hurts low end power. But everything is a system so it all has to work together.

Mids with good collector size will support good power just not quite as much torque in the lower rpm to mid range areas. As seen in the vid. You gotta determine how much torque you want/need. Heavier car may like longtubes better. But if you have a stout build with good heads and good compression, its gonna make torque regardless. And there is such thing as too much torque on the street. Even bolt on ls1's making 320 wtq can be trouble without a good tire

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Hopefully you meant a 2.25" collector, as a 2.25" port/primary is huge...

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

haha yes I meant collectors.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Ozz, you need to consider the overall build. Nobody should install LTH and expect magical numbers, it comes down to stall speed, cam specs and gearing. This is how you choose the right system. LTH have way more potential overall than the other two choices, but you need to compensate for them in the right areas to reach their full potential. Stock-ish cam, average intake, and low stall speed, then yes, mid tubes all the way.Then again, there is no denying the LTH exhaust note, regardless...

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

agreed. When my build went sideways after learning my JY found headers were garbage, I wound up with a set of ported and polished 243's for my LS swap. Of course then I couldn't leave the Cam alone.

so now I'm trying to justify saving the extra $400 on the Mid tubes vs long tubes but seeing the gains in the true usable rpm range and not just peak, I. Starting to consider the extra money is worth it.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

My chance to learn something guys...So Mid length...not seen many of those. Looks like a shorty with a more traditional style collector on it? Just going by the picture in the video.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

kind of. Longer primaries as well. Stops short of long tube length as they were designed for swaps with ground clearance issues IIRC. Gives you nearly long tube power as you can see in the video.