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New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

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New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Old 08-06-2011, 11:08 AM
  #101  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by FlippindaBird View Post
NICE! waiting for the finished project... and if i understand correctly you are not adding any weight?
i have not weighed the finished parts, since they are not finished yet, but at this point, i believe i will be adding a little weight, i think.

where did you get all the building materials from?
local metal/hardware supply for just about everything. hinge shafts and bushings are from Mcmastercarr, projector kit is from The Retrofit Source.
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:23 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by //<86TA>\\ View Post
thanks for the info guys, but im not looking to have the fogs on with the high beams. Im trying to do this all without cutting the factory wiring (except the bulb pigtails), so i can swap back and forth to the stock setup if needed. The plan is to splice 3 pin weather pack connectors onto the factory bulb pigtails so i can just plug the factory or projector setup into the body harness when i swap back and forth. It would also allow me to lengthen the factory wiring to the stock flip ups since they are a tad on the short side and a bit difficult to unplug.
You can also get male pigtails to plug into the 3 prong headlight sockets. Thats how my plug and play HID bulb kit came, and its what I used when I built a harnes for my jeep headlights when I went with brighter bulbs.

Before that, i just used male spade connectors, which fit perfectly into the sockets as well...but for a more finished and professional install, you can get the pigtails.

Or wire weatherpacks like you were saying....but with the male plugs everything factory stays untouched. Just a thought!

J.
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:31 PM
  #103  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post
but with the male plugs everything factory stays untouched. Just a thought!

J.
the 91-92 cars have a different plug configuration than the earlier ones, like this " / _ | " in stead of " | _ |. I could plug my harness into the 86, but not the 92. I supposed i could have found and changed the pigtail, but the original plan was the weatherpacks, so i stuck with it.
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Old 08-06-2011, 01:19 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Oooooh... Gotcha. I didnt realize those had a slanted terminal.

Carry on! Looking forward to seeing them finished up!

J.
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Old 08-06-2011, 06:45 PM
  #105  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

That is absolutely amazing. I sorta want to also attempt this.
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Old 08-06-2011, 09:33 PM
  #106  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by silentkillzr View Post
That is absolutely amazing. I sorta want to also attempt this.
i'd just as soon wait for him to put together a kit (with installation instructions) and then buy it lol
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Old 08-06-2011, 09:38 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by kmcn47 View Post
i'd just as soon wait for him to put together a kit (with installation instructions) and then buy it lol
Never happen, he has to help me get the C4 IRS under my car before he starts selling stuff to other people Plus I know he has other plans and he is always working on something
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:00 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Never happen, he has to help me get the C4 IRS under my car before he starts selling stuff to other people Plus I know he has other plans and he is always working on something
damn, if i had the money that is something i would buy too
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:00 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by scooter View Post
I got it, the fog light relay is grounded through the HI beam filament.
and thats whats been killing me.

So, have any of your firebird guys here with projectors actually get the fogs to work properly and still have hi/low beam function? I think not right?

i looks like i will have to add a N/C relay to the highbeam relays negative coil wire, activated by the low beam chassis wiring to get the highbeam relay to drop out when i switch back to low beams. It seems that there is enough voltage/current getting through the fog light relay to keep the high beam relay closed when switching back to low beams. Only way i can see to stop this, without loosing the fog light, or having them on all the time, is to add a 3rd relay, and it has to be one the ground side.

thoughts form the peanut gallery?

a crude wire diagram for what i think i need to do
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Last edited by //<86TA>\\; 08-06-2011 at 10:24 PM. Reason: added diagram
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:02 PM
  #110  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by kmcn47 View Post
damn, if i had the money that is something i would buy too
how much ya got? Honestly, with all the materials, lights, fab time and bs associated with this mod, you would be looking at a couple grand EASY.

and like i said before, there will never be a kit.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:05 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by //<86TA>\\ View Post
and thats whats been killing me.

So, have any of your firebird guys here with projectors actually get the fogs to work properly and still have hi/low beam function? I think not right?

i looks like i will have to add a N/C relay to the highbeam relays negative coil wire, activated by the low beam chassis wiring to get the highbeam relay to drop out when i switch back to low beams. It seems that there is enough voltage/current getting through the fog light relay to keep the high beam relay closed when switching back to low beams. Only way i can see to stop this, without loosing the fog light, or having them on all the time, is to add a 3rd relay, and it has to be one the ground side.

thoughts form the peanut gallery?
and the doohickey plugs into the whatchacallit and then all that relays to the thingamabobber

Originally Posted by //<86TA>\\ View Post
how much ya got? Honestly, with all the materials, lights, fab time and bs associated with this mod, you would be looking at a couple grand EASY.

and like i said before, there will never be a kit.
i dont got that much, i found a dollar today ....but on my way home from the store i lost a ws6 centercap so theres no way i can afford that
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:13 AM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Wouldnt it be easier to put in a NC relay for the fog light? And have the +12 wired to the solenoid for the high beam be easier/less complicated? So instead of applying +12 to both sides of the fog relay, instead you would have the high beam also activate the relay and OPEN the NC relay you put on the fog? More like factory that way?
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Old 08-07-2011, 11:45 AM
  #113  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

might not be following you there james, but that seems like it would still have the same issue as stock. In stock form, when the high beam is on, the fog relay has + on both sides, so it doesnt work and it open. Adding the NC relay in the fog circuit would leave the circuit the same as it was from the factory. When the low beams are on, the relay is closed, power is still flowing through it, to where the hi beam filiment used to be, and would still make the hi beam relay stick. Right? i could be wrong, my brain is not awake yet today.

the problem i have, now that i removed the "ghetto rig" temp setup and installed it more permanently, is that once i turn the high beams on, and the fog light switch on the dash is on, i can no longer turn the hi beams off, whether the headlight switch is in hi or low. It seems i have just enough voltage/current leaking through the fog relay, combined with the load across the load side contacts, to keep it closed, or "stuck". Until i turn the fog light switch off, then the relay opens again.

wiring a new relay in my original idea would be simple, i would just have to cut the ground to the hi beam relay and splice the new relay in its place. This also allows me to avoid cutting in to the body harness, which i trying to avoid. PIg tails can be replaced easily, but i dont like splicing in and out of the factory wiring.

Last edited by //<86TA>\\; 08-07-2011 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 08-07-2011, 11:52 AM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by //<86TA>\\ View Post
might not be following you there james, but that seems like it would still have the same issue as stock. In stock form, when the high beam is on, the fog relay has + on both sides, so it doesnt work and it open. Adding the NC relay in the fog circuit would leave the circuit the same as it was from the factory. When the low beams are on, the relay is closed, power is still flowing through it, to where the hi beam filiment used to be, and would still make the hi beam relay stick. Right? i could be wrong, my brain is not awake yet today.
I guess I forgot to add moving the ground from the High beam filament to the the chassis for the fog relay and use the +12 from the high beam to open the NC relay shutting off the fog light when the high beam comes on. I had it right in my head, but I forgot some pertinant info
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Old 08-13-2011, 03:32 PM
  #115  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

sorry im a week late for an update, but as usual, things have taken longer than i hoped for.

Made progress on the bezels. They are still in a rough state, but all i need to do to finish them is to fill the low spots and a couple voids and finish sand them smooth, they are fitted and ready to go otherwise.

The only wrap around the front and side, not the back. The back will be a separate piece to i can change the bulbs.

both
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the lense will simply be a piece of 3/16 polycarbonate mounted across the face,sealed and probably be painted somewhat. that all arrives tuesday.
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Old 08-13-2011, 03:35 PM
  #116  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

now on the car,

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the are secured by the 2 screws on the side, and another will be on the opposite side, down in the wedge, using the other door mounting points and a small bracket i have to make once i get these off the car.
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Old 08-13-2011, 03:37 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

driverside, and i painted it black real quick to see what it looked like. The rest are just primed to i can see the high/low spots better.

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im mostly happy with them so far, i may try something different latter, but for now, these will get me moving. Fiberglass is a mess, and the garage shows it. everything is white, as well as most of the driveway....
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Old 08-13-2011, 05:22 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

friggen awesome. your car looks like it wants to eat people....
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Old 08-13-2011, 07:16 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

hahaha wow... i need to come on this forum more often again! i guess you liked the projectors i used? they are pretty awsome! i Just got mine of the road after the BBF swap and they are working beautifully.

This is a pretty cool idea! i like wat youve done. I had a problem with the mini projector since its a real HID projector the sides are completely open and they throw alot of light out the sides. Plus u cant seal the sides off bc the bulbs will overheat and burnout not to mention bake the chrome off the housings.

I would make the black on the sides a flat or low gloss black (hot rod black), not a fan of the gloss. Still tho its this very different and ill be watching to see how it turns out.
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Old 08-13-2011, 07:50 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by customblackbird View Post

I would make the black on the sides a flat or low gloss black (hot rod black), not a fan of the gloss. Still tho its this very different and ill be watching to see how it turns out.
i only had gloss laying around, im probably using a satin, since that will match the stock bezels

my concern is moisture. I can seal the front lens and such, but like you said, i cant seal the sides of the projector. I dont know how resilient to moisture the bulbs are. I can make splask gaurds, which is the plan, but i dont know if it will be enough? good thing i have spare bulbs, but i would rather not have to replace the constantly.
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Old 08-13-2011, 10:23 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

the bulbs should be fine. as long as they dont get splashed with water when hot. My lenses fog and get a decent amount of condensation when the weathers temp change drastically. Yet the bulbs are still working and my HID kit is a 55w.

You need to protect the housing/lense/bulb from debris and water but have to allow a cross flow of air to cool the bulb and housing while being used... if you want the bulbs/housings to last longer. This was what i was told from theretrofitsource.

Also the bixenon projectors require special one way resistors that are used. I forget what your problem was with the low beams shutting off but i hope your using a seperate relay for the headlights that uses the stock H4 bulb Hot wire from the cars stock harness to trigger the relay. Thats how mine is setup with the resistors and it works flawlessly.
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:20 AM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by customblackbird View Post

Also the bixenon projectors require special one way resistors that are used. I forget what your problem was with the low beams shutting off but i hope your using a separate relay for the headlights that uses the stock H4 bulb Hot wire from the cars stock harness to trigger the relay. Thats how mine is setup with the resistors and it works flawlessly.
but your formy does not have factory fogs does it? thats my problem. the factory fog light relay is grounded through the highbeam filament, so with the proper harness from TRS, the high beam relay sticks because of current coming back through the fog relay when the fogs are active. With the switch on the dash for the fogs off, all is well, with it on, the relay sticks once i switch the hi-beam circuit on. I have to add another relay to fix this, which should not be too hard.

I can seal the glass projector to my bezels with foil tape, that should reduce the condensation, but i would like the keep the projectors open for cooling. Im hoping simple splash gaurds will keep the water off them when i hit a puddle.
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Old 08-14-2011, 11:00 AM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

it did not, but it had the harness for the stock foglight switch, after i think a couple of mods to the stock connector the fog light switch from a transam popped right in. A simple hot + wire was run to the front of the car for the individual fog lights. Grounded the bulbs to the car. and walla! stock fog light switch that activates the foglights independed of the HIDs which turn on through the stock headlights switch.

My problem with the HIDs was when the high beams were activated the low beam/hid bulb shut off. The special resistors allowed the feelback of current from the high beam selenoid to stop the low beam shutoff.

I havent driven the car in the rain yet. but the splash guards under the front bumper should work fine. Im more worried about the wheels flinging water to the front of the car in inside the bumper/HID shroud. water mist could be a problem. But that is why i liked the halogen projectors bc they were completely sealed. With you 35w kit you really dont have to worry about heat that much, they worked in a sealed halogen projector without burning out. However the 55w's put out alot of heat, while on for maybe 2 min the housing can give me a nice burn.
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Old 08-14-2011, 11:06 AM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by //<86TA>\\ View Post
but your formy does not have factory fogs does it? thats my problem. the factory fog light relay is grounded through the highbeam filament, so with the proper harness from TRS, the high beam relay sticks because of current coming back through the fog relay when the fogs are active. With the switch on the dash for the fogs off, all is well, with it on, the relay sticks once i switch the hi-beam circuit on. I have to add another relay to fix this, which should not be too hard.
I didnt really dig into your electrical situation much. But when I was looking to add projectors to my car, I came up with some ideas and all of them used a diode to keep things from back feeding. Have you considered putting in a diode to keep that current from back tracking? Probably have...just wanted to mention it.


The bezels look great! They will look 100x better when painted satin black vs. gloss. You did a really good job with them...should look fantastic when youre done. I dont know if you show the car...but you'll get some attention for this if you pop em up during a show!

J.
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Old 08-14-2011, 11:58 AM
  #125  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post
I didnt really dig into your electrical situation much. But when I was looking to add projectors to my car, I came up with some ideas and all of them used a diode to keep things from back feeding. Have you considered putting in a diode to keep that current from back tracking? Probably have...just wanted to mention it.


The bezels look great! They will look 100x better when painted satin black vs. gloss. You did a really good job with them...should look fantastic when youre done. I dont know if you show the car...but you'll get some attention for this if you pop em up during a show!

J.
Thanks!
no shows, this one is more of a DD, with some modifications.

a diode may work, im unsure though. I already have a plan and ordered the extra relay, so im going that route for now.

Im more worried about the wheels flinging water to the front of the car in inside the bumper/HID shroud. water mist could be a problem
thats what im worried about, once i take the light assemblies out, i'll see what i can do to add some more shielding to the car, or possibly, enclose the entire headlight door from the underside if i can.
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:03 PM
  #126  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Got the wiring finished up, the NC relay worked fine, but i had to add another diode the the wiring harness. Only quirk i have is the high beam indication light is always on, its really dim on low beams, and bright on high, so its still bleeding through something. If I turn the fog light switch off, the indicator light goes off like it should on low beam. Not really worried about it.

The lights are 95 percent finished, and the maiden voyage will be tomorrow after i finish installing and setting up the driverside light. I'll have pics of that tomorrow.

The interesting tidbit from the evening, i weighted the complete headlight including light and ballast. Came to 10.25lbs, vs the stock 9.7 lbs, so they are a half pound heavier, much better than i though, so i basically added only the weight of the ballasts and some wiring.

Had the car outside yesterday is a downpour while trying to aim the headlights, so they got a test in the rain and survived, which was good news. I got soaked, and the car got a much needed bath.
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:42 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

I knew there was something I forgot to do!

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Old 08-23-2011, 02:20 AM
  #128  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Nice
(insert inappropriate phrase here)
Nice
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:01 PM
  #129  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

love it
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:41 PM
  #130  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

thanks!

i have been stupid busy lately and have not had time to finish these or update this thread. They are installed in the car, and i have been driving with them for about a month. So far so good, but they do still vibrate a little, so i have a little work to do to stiffen up the doors a tad. Other than that, they are awesome...
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Old 10-20-2011, 06:34 PM
  #131  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Ok guys, here are some pics from this summer before i installed these. This is the near complete housing ready to install. Only part not built is the rear cover, i starter, but have no time to finish it, so hopefully this winter/spring.

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shows the light mount
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Old 10-20-2011, 06:36 PM
  #132  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

im guessing the alum tape is there as a light barrier, not actually holding the projector in the housing?
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Old 10-20-2011, 06:36 PM
  #133  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

in the car

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Had a couple issues arise since the last update. My fogs shorted out, and i dont know why. I dont need them, but i need to figure that out.

then earlier this week the passengerside motor ate the gear, so it needs a rebuild this winter.

Other than slight vibration issue that i need to resolve, these things turned out pretty sweet.
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Old 10-20-2011, 06:38 PM
  #134  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by travis401 View Post
im guessing the alum tape is there as a light barrier, not actually holding the projector in the housing?
The tape is more of a dirt/water shield, it seals the housing to the light frame, with small vent openings. I used some to tie the wires on too in the back

the projectors are held in with a nut on the backside you can see it in the last pic above
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Old 10-20-2011, 06:46 PM
  #135  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

now all you need is that classic shark mouth paint on the front bumper cover to make it look really angry.
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Old 10-21-2011, 02:10 PM
  #136  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

looks awesome
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Old 10-21-2011, 02:26 PM
  #137  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Looks good!

I think you need to change your SN to \\<86TA>//
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:55 AM
  #138  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

The vibration is going to be difficult to completely get rid of with the pop up. My projectors vibrate something terrible in my pop ups and I read of a couple C5 Corvette guys that have difficulty with it as well.
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:06 AM
  #139  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

I really, really, really want.
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:31 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Oh I almost forgot... output shots!!!
One more thing, be glad you went with the Mini H1 and not the D2S version like I have.
Also if you want more usable light output use a bulb with 4300K color temp.
www.theretrofitsource.com
Mods, please remove the link if it's not allowed ^^
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:52 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by sjgrimsley View Post
Oh I almost forgot... output shots!!!
One more thing, be glad you went with the Mini H1 and not the D2S version like I have.
You got pics of yours? I have the D2S, but on the car yet. Hope they aren't THAT bad.
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:59 PM
  #142  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

i think the d2s work great...not sure why you dont.

this pic is the first i hadnt aimed them yet...they have a 6k bulb in them, white with just a hint of blue.

on topic...if your car was sliver it would be spot on johnny 5, i dont care for it but good job on it, looks like good work.
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:28 PM
  #143  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by sjgrimsley View Post
Oh I almost forgot... output shots!!!
One more thing, be glad you went with the Mini H1 and not the D2S version like I have.
Also if you want more usable light output use a bulb with 4300K color temp.
www.theretrofitsource.com
Mods, please remove the link if it's not allowed ^^
curious as well as to why you dont like the D2S? its almost the same housing, same lense, just a slightly different bulb style, unless thats the issue
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:43 PM
  #144  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Well my only qualm about the D2S version is that it really lacks a hotspot and intensity along the cutoff. The H1 version has more of both. There are comparison shot of the output of both projectors and there is a significant difference. That lack of a decent hotspot really holds the D2S back in distance lighting.
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:51 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

You got some mad skilz, i think it looks bad ***....
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:52 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

^^^WTF....did I just get sensored on a lil 3 letter word.....
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:54 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

yeah....you did..
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:05 PM
  #148  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by sjgrimsley View Post
The vibration is going to be difficult to completely get rid of with the pop up. My projectors vibrate something terrible in my pop ups and I read of a couple C5 Corvette guys that have difficulty with it as well.
That is no surprise....Hanging the big projector housing off that "small" mounting on the very back that they say to use. If I ever finish my custom mounting, I can pretty much guarantee you it ain't gonna move any.
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:15 PM
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by sjgrimsley View Post
Well my only qualm about the D2S version is that it really lacks a hotspot and intensity along the cutoff. The H1 version has more of both. There are comparison shot of the output of both projectors and there is a significant difference. That lack of a decent hotspot really holds the D2S back in distance lighting.
I forgot to add that the H1 version also has a foreground limiter where the D2S does not. All that foreground lit up in your face also limits how far down the road you can see. A guy on HIDPlanet added a foreground limiter to his Mini D2S and it seemed to help the output as well.

I'll dig up the comparison shots of the H1 vs D2S minis and post them.
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:25 PM
  #150  
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Re: New bird flip-up light mod. A new direction, literally.

Originally Posted by BlackenedBird View Post
That is no surprise....Hanging the big projector housing off that "small" mounting on the very back that they say to use. If I ever finish my custom mounting, I can pretty much guarantee you it ain't gonna move any.
actually, thats not what vibrating. That connection is solid. I just have a little play left in the hinge i have to correct with some different bushings. That and i believe the filaments themselves vibrate, which i can do nothing about.
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