dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

My 91 Z28 has been sitting for a couple of years now, (getting married and trying to buy a house). But it has an F1 powered intercooled 383, with a moser 12 bolt and a T-56. I currently run 315s, mostly spohn suspension and stock springs.

I want to run 335s and air ride eventually once I get the house and have a place to work on the car again. I figure I might as well start planning the car out now. I have had my current camaro since highschool and lets just call the last build a LEANRING CAR. I have cut it up and "customized" it beyond repair, so my plan is to pick up another one, like a crappy high milage V6 or something and rip everything out and start fresh.

Same motor, tranny, rear, F1, intercooler, etc... But different wheels, tires and suspention.

What is the best way to run the 335s and air ride that I want? I figure most people will say mini-tub and offset control arms, but I can't even seem to find the "crappy" air ride kit on their airridetech's website.

I can weld, cut and whatever else, so I figured I could maybe just attack the problem like a street rod guy would and make my own mounts and use the bag-over-shock or shockwave style setups for the rear. For the front, stick to standard bag and shock, since I already have a tubular K-member and a-arms.

Thoughts....

and thanks.

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

I run 335's and a mini tub. I used the small diameter QA1 springs for the rear to get the extra clearance for the tire. Obviously the stock location for an air spring will not work for you, but I'm not sure there is enough real estate in there to run a bag-over-shock set-up either. Do you have the dimensions for the bag-over-shock unit?

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

I wish I did. I am still just trying to learn about them. Different kinds and so on. Once I get that info I could post it up here.

Can you explain the mini-tub in a nut shell? From what I understand, from seeing other threads about it, it is a new wheel well that you weld in. Do you just cut the old out and keep checking the fit over and over, while trimming more and more till you get it right, then weld in?

Doesn't sound bad, if that is the case. What about axle size? I have a moser 12 bolt that is the stock width. Currently have 11" wide ZR1s. So I know those are not wide enough, I will have to get some new rims. Maybe somehting in the 18" variety.

Anyways, thanks for posting up. Not too many people on here running such wide tires.

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

Most of the mini tubs I have seen around here use the wolfe kit. I don't like their kit because it's way overkill for a street tire. I fabbed my own wheel tubs up. This allowed me to keep the rear seats/belts and still use the factory plastics. My goal was to maintain a factory look.

Basically I cut as little metal out as possible. This took alot of mounting and un-mounting the wheels but it was worth it.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

What size wheels are you running? I am thinking 12" will be good enough to hold 335s. Think I might look into something in an 18" diameter all around so I could run larger than C5 brakes someday.

marolf101x

Mods. . .if I overstep the bounds of advertising on this forum, please feel free to remove this post and send me a message. I am simply trying to help a fellow "third-genner" and Air Ride Technologies was called out directly by the OP. As I am the Director of Engineering for Air Ride Technologies (Ridetech), I felt it only appropriate that I answer this post as directly as possible.

You can find our "crappy" kits here:
http://www.ridetech.com/store/muscle...ures_hash=V266

We are working on a completely new set-up using Shockwaves on all 4 corners (coil overs are also an option).
The new system uses Fox/Ridetech monotube struts on the front and Fox/Ridetech monotube coil overs on the rear (single adjustable or triple adjustable).
I mention Fox as most know the name, and we recently announced our 1,000,001 mile warranty on shocks/struts. That's right. . .we will warranty any shock or strut for over one million miles.

We are probably 60-90 days from completing the new system.
I'm not sure just yet what clearance is available for 335's, as we have not fit that large of a tire, but we are looking at it.

Here's the link to our 2010+ Camaro strut to give you an idea of where we are headed:
http://www.ridetech.com/store/muscle...ures_hash=V359

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Marol - I am a mechanical engineer, I work for a medical device company developing products. In about a year or less I will be looking into doing this modification. If in anyway I can help, let me know. I would really like to run Shockwave style bags if possible. Looks like there might not be enough room to do so, st least not using the stock mounting locations of the shocks in the rear.

Thanks for chiming in and reminding us that companies are still interested in developing products for our third Gens.

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

I'm running a 18x12 in the back.

If you need a test subject with 335's, let me know.

BADNBLK

iTrader: (11)

I'm happy to see this is gonna happen. Please make sure to keep us in the loop on these. I really want to get out of my rear Konis into something that can be adjusted on the car easily.

Its great to hear, and when big boys in the pro-touring world start making components and seeing the improvements that can be found in "our" cars, I think others will follow.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Any update marol?

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Any update on the air ride kits?

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

I am curious as well. When thirdgenners start supporting the aftermarket, the aftermarket will support us. It takes effort from both ends.

marolf101x

I have prototype parts in for the rear, so it's just a matter of bolting all that together and checking fit and function.
Fox is performing durability tests on the struts. When that's complete and we all feel that we have the best product we can offer we'll be releasing units to the public. As I stated previously the 5th Gen Camaro and 05+ Mustang are first to go out the door as I already have all the parts for them. The third gen is going to take a little while as I have to design a new upper strut mount. I don't like the fabricated ones currently available, so I'm looking into a cool looking aluminum mount.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

please let us know when you have any more substantial updates. still hunting for an idea that would mount 335s and a shockwaves like setup. I don't mind doing the Wolfe mini tub kit. I just need to figure out how to mount air ride along side the 335s. maybe cut the floor boards and weld the upper mounts closer together? that may tilt the shock away from the rims enough. hard to say without it not all in front of me

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

I'm going to be mini-tubbing my '85 T/A and was planning on possibly making a cross-bar to mount between the frame rails and moving the shock mounts inboard, mounted to this bar. Then it's just a simple matter of making new shock mounts and mounting then on the axle, further inboard.

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

Any updates on this yet? Really interested in putting air on my car if I can fit it in the back with the 335's.

marolf101x

We are done with the new kit in engineering. It should be in the new catalog which will come out just after the new year.
The rear kit uses a 7000 Series Shockwave (with a 4.0" diameter air spring) in the OE shock location.

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

4"...that sounds promising. Thanks for the update.

jaybdaboat

So has anyone tried those rear shocks?

marolf101x

Since we are debuting them at SEMA no one has a rear system yet.

krazeefewl

iTrader: (1)

I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys came up with

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Same here. REALLY want to do air and a massive rear tire. Actually, my car is off the road right now, getting a new wiring harness and I refuse to finish the build and get her on the road without air, and keeping my 315s.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Any update on this?

marolf101x

The parts were displayed at SEMA and everything is done except getting them on the website (the marketing guys are in Florida, but they'll get it up there as soon as they get back in the office).
The rear Shockwave mounts just like all the other coil over kits out there. There's a plate that bolts into the rear spring area, using the stock shock mount as a bolt point. We also added a locating pin and an extra hole so you can completely bolt this in (or weld it if you prefer).

If you can fit 335's with a coil over kit you'll be able to fit a 335 with the Shockwave.

The Shockwaves are available as RQ (fixed valve), HQ (rebound adjust), and TQ (rebound adjust, dual compression adjust, remote resi)

here's a pic from our CAD:

marolf101x

We've also been working on the front.
The idea is to use one of our new Shockwave struts and eliminate the OE coil spring.
In order to do so we'll need a new upper shock mount. Instead of a fabricated part like everyone else we've come up with this. It's a cast aluminum mount that looks a lot cooler than anything else out there.
What do you all think?

UNCLE TOM

iTrader: (1)

do you have a time estimate for installation ? i'm talking about the average DIY'er . special tools required ? i'm very interested also . thanks for info. & product .

marolf101x

bolting in of the Shockwaves and mounts doesn't take long at all.
the time depends on what compressor package you choose. If you use an AirPod it's only a few hours to run the air lines, hook up power, and go.
If you choose the "loose" system so you can hide all the components it will take considerably longer.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

When can all this be bought? I am tearing my car appart right now. Just trying to see how I need to budget cost, and other projects.

What CAD is that? Solidworks? Looks sort of like it. I use SW at work and use a similar color for my backdrop.

marolf101x

It's Solid Edge.

The rear can be purchased very soon (as soon as the guys get it on the website).
The front will take a bit of time as I've not started making anything yet.
The upper mount is just in the design stage, not yet to production.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

What is "very soon"? Like a couple of months?

Just want to know since I am knee deep in my teardown and want to get an idea if I will be able to implement this on this build up.

ETA on design being complete on front? within the year?

marolf101x

Very soon? How about now?
http://www.ridetech.com/store/muscle...ures_hash=V267

I spoke to the web guys this afternoon. They are going to split the front and rear coil overs. As the rear is the same between the 3rd and 4th gens this will allow you to purchase the rear now, and the front when we get it done.

The front will be finished before the end of 2014.
There's a lot of tooling to get it done the way we want, so it will take longer than normal, but not all that long.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

what would you recommend for someone that wants to do all for corners, but also wasn't to wait? should I just gut the front, do the rest of the car and not worry about the lines and stuff? I was going to run all that stuff now while I re wire the car. just want to" install all under dash stuff now

thanks

marolf101x

If you want it now you can get the CoolRide set up:
http://www.ridetech.com/store/muscle...ures_hash=V266

If you want Shockwaves, you can purchase the rear now, then purchase the front struts when we have them done.

You can run airline anytime you want.

You can purchase any control system you want and install it now, even if you don't have bags yet.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

is the air pod worth it? or is it pretty easy to install the separate components?

marolf101x

I personally think the AirPod is worth every dime.
I'm not a sales person, I design parts and install everything. . .and I can tell you it saves a ton of time.
Look at it this way. . .if you pay a shop to install this stuff they get $65/hr on the low side. The AirPod saves 10-12 hours, or $650-$780. The AirPod costs $300 more than the loose kit ($400 if you add the cover).

The only negative to the AirPod is if you want to hide components. Then the only way to go is with the loose kit. This allows you to hide everything where you want.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

sounds worth it for some people, not for me. I install all my own stuff, nice option though.

marolf101x

Installing all your own stuff is cool, that's the way I prefer to do it.
Our harnesses are long as the need to fit a caddy, so if you need connectors and terminals to shorten the harnesses let me know and I'll tell you where to buy them. Please note: DO NOT alter the pressure sensor harness. It's very touchy, and I don't screw with it.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Got it. Thanks for the heads up. Feels like I (we) have someone on the inside,

Think I will buy all the wiring first since that is where I am at with my build. I am wiring the whole car from scratch. That way I can integrate all the wiring at once. Then when the new front system comes out, I will buy that along with the rear and do the hardware swap.

Really looking forward to only having one item as the shock/spring. Simplification is always a good thing.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

any idea what I should order exactly to just get the wiring harness?

I want to get this part ordered so I can get it wired up for when the hardware comes out

thanks for any insight

sidwyz

I'm also very interested in this. I am currently in the market for new front shock mounts, sounds like the solid bearing is gonna be a waste if I want to go this route. I also would like to purchase these parts a little at a time. I'm trying to do better planning this time around as I'm replacing suspension components with less than 500 miles on them lol

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

still lookin for advice on writing offering...

I will try giving airride a call tomorrow, our Monday.

marolf101x

Wiring is part of the control system. So you purchase a control system then install the wiring.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

got it, thanks. anything I should watch out for our make sure I order? any idea what the cost is..., about?

just trying to save a call to airride.

marolf101x

Cost depends on what you want. . .you can do the manual control system, or you can spring for the fully digital system with height and pressure sensors. Anywhere from a couple grand to over 5K.

We treat our systems as Front, Rear, and Compressor system. So when you buy each "kit" (or everything at once), it comes with all the parts you need. you don't have to buy a "bag kit" then add fittings, airline, etc. . .it's all there.

If you buy individual parts you'll have to get everything you need.

If you have any questions please feel free to call the shop. We can walk you through whatever you are looking for.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

got a preferred number I should call? maybe an extension?

marolf101x

Anyone of the sales staff should be able to help you out.
If you have any issues just let me know and I'll make sure someone helps you out!

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Any update on the front setup?

marolf101x

No updates. The front kit will require both a new extrusion for the lower strut mount as well as a new upper strut mount (I'd really like to do the cast or forged aluminum part shown above, but tooling is pretty high for an "inexpensive" platform like this.)

Even if I had everything in motion it would still be 3-6 months to get parts into production.

Keep asking as interest will move it to the front of the list, but right now there are more pressing projects (C2/C3 Vette is our big one at the moment).

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Updates? .... You said to keep asking!

I don't care about the the long lead time. I need that much time to save up anyways!

marolf101x

No movement yet. . .been finalizing a C2/C3 coil over suspension that's taken a while.
Prototype is scheduled to start in about a month, so it's at least in line!