dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Just wanted to post up a project that I am working on. Just about done with this fabrication work.

It all started with wanting a shaved fuel door and needing a new way to fill the tank. Stock tank was leaking, so I moved to a cell. I don't want it inside the car (ran it like that for some time), so I decided to change the shape of the floor in the trunk area. Then build some straps and perches to hold the straps and tank. I had to pass thru the panhard bar brace as you can see.

Anyways, thought some guys out there might find this interesting.

Still need to add the gasketed fuel access door on top, not to mention a ton of finish work like grinding, seam sealing and coating/painting.

83RDRACR

The title had me scared that this was going to be just another plastic cell strapped into the cargo area creating a massive fire hazard to the occupants. Kudos for closing it in and nice fab work there. Just make sure you vent the tank to the outside and not let fumes build up inside the can.

Also just noticed that the tank is basically held in place by the 2 bottom straps and the four tabs on the fuel cell. The tabs on the cell are not very strong and any flex or movement of the cell can cause them to crack the thin metal of the cell and cause a fuel leak. RCI eliminated the tabs all together from their fuel cells just for this reason. With gas weighing about 6.2lb/gal you've got over 90lbs of gas sloshing back and forth and flexing the bottom of the tank. I would really like to see a solid removable floor under this thing and straps over the top but that is just my opinion.

Here is RCI mounting instructions. Line #2 is what I am referring to.



Good luck and stay safe.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Hey 83, thanks for posting the info. More info never hurts. My take on it was that the straps will take all the weight. The tabs just deal with lateral or vertical loads.

I guess a could build an entire floor under the tank... seems a bit over kill. Maybe just a couple more straps that wrap up the sides and over the top and bottom, that attach to the first set of straps. That would be easier than building an entire floor, cutting off the tabs and then making more straps to secure the tank to the new floor.

Thoughts?

83RDRACR

Dennis, here are pics of the 15 gallon RCI fuel cell I installed behind the rear axle. It did not require cutting or modifying the rear cargo area at all. I retained the factory fuel fill door on the side but I suppose a non-vented fuel fill cap could be mounted in the cargo area (not keen on filling the tank from inside the car).








The frame is 1 1/2 x 1/8 angle. Bottom ring of frame is 1 x 1 1/2 tubing. The cell slides in from the bottom and then the bottom is closed off with a piece of 1/4" thick aluminum. All edges of fuel cell will be covered with 1/4" foam tape to prevent contact with frame work and keeps cell tight in frame.





Hangs just slightly below the storage well.




I really don't think a few metal straps slung under the bottom of the cell are adequate.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Not a cheaper way but a bolt in.
http://www.nastyperformance.com/shop...ing-fuel-tank/

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the pics 83. Very very built up install. I saw that tank but decided against it. Really wanted to have a sump.

As for the straps not being adequate, what do you think of the stock tank? That is only held in with a couple of straps.

As for filling, I have filled for years in the trunk, back when the cell was in the driver's compartment. Never had an issue. I can see why it would seem strange. It is more of a pass thru now. There will be an air tight fuel accesses door, then below that will be the cell, and it's cap. Using the stock fill Casio has been it if the question fit me for about 14 years, ever since I had a body shop shave it off, so alternate filling has always been a need for the look I wanted.

Thanks, I will consider upgrading the straps, but fit a weekend cruiser, I don't see there being much of an issue. Racing of any sort and I fully agree with you.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

http://www.nastyperformance.com/shop...d-race-tank-2/

This is the unit I'm going with... $712 to my door.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

I saw that a couple years ago. While trying to buy a procharger and a house, I went with a square cell for $130 to my door. If I had the funds, and didn't care to shave my fuel door a few years ago, I would have gone the same route.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

no mods needed.. its a bolt in.. it uses a 99 Camaro filler neck and hose.(off ebay $15 for the one picked up)
same factory straps. and sending unit. your using a diff fuel pump.
and the same fuel door on the side of the car.

ya just need a diff fuel delivery set up...12AN anyone?

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

I think you may be misunderstanding me.

I don't have a fuel door on my car of any kind. I wanted this. Your setup will be great for a bolt in install. My car is anything but. Just not the type of build I am going for.

83RDRACR

Dennis, the factory straps hold the tank tight to the body. That does not appear to be the case in your install. Top of tank is away from box you built so all weight is on tabs and bottom strap supports very little weight.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Hey 83, after a lot of thought I think I will go the route that you did and make a cage around the tank. I will have to cut off the tabs to have the tank slide in the cage all the way and I will also have to have a chunk cut out of the floor piece to accommodate the sump.

I will be picking up the raw materials today after work from Lowe's. I will post pics as I go. Thanks for the great idea. It does seem a lot safer.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

I have one of these tanks, hate it. Fits poorly, not baffled well, the sender is garbage and gets in the way of exhaust...

83RDRACR

Dennis this is the best post I could ever see. When I first looked into putting a fuel cell in my car I searched through the fabrication and fuel forums for ideas and was totally shocked by all the unsafe installs that I saw. I am no expert but common sense tells me the fuel tank belongs OUTSIDE the passenger compartment.

There are countless post here where the car owner cuts a hole in the cargo floor drops in a 16 or 20 gallon plastic fuel cell, takes great pains to seal it off from below but leaves the cell totally exposed to passenger compartment. Some have made an aluminum "firewall" that closes off the cell to the rest of the cargo area. The top of the firewall is supposed to seal against the rear hatch glass.

Guys think this is safe and OK because it is allowed by NHRA/IHRA in stock and super stock classes. But these are drag race rules written for drag race cars. They were never intentioned to be deemed safe for street driven vehicles where the likelihood of a rear end collision is much, much greater. Positioning the fuel cell in the cargo area totally eliminates any "crush" zone the manufacturer built into the car. If the rear hatch pops open in a rear end collision or just shifts out of position the supposed seal to the firewall is broken allowing the possibility of gasoline spilling into the cargo/passenger area of the car. Think early 70's Pintos and the passengers that burned alive in those cars because the tank was at the very back of the car and floor seams opened up upon impact.

Two weeks ago I was at a NHRA division 2 race at ZMAX raceway with some friends that race Super Stock cars. One car was a 69 Camaro with an 8 gallon plastic cell strapped to the trunk floor and had a full sheet metal firewall separating the trunk area from the passenger compartment. The other car was a 1994 Camaro with a 4 gallon plastic cell mounted in the very rear of the cargo area and had the aforementioned firewall that seals to the underside of the rear hatch. I saw no problem with either setup but again these cars were dedicated race cars that NEVER see the highway and the tanks were quite small in size.

One other thing and I will get down off my soap box. I don't understand what kind of performance advantage people are looking to get by storing 16 or more gallons of fuel in a black plastic container under the huge rear window of the 3rd gen. Inside temperatures can easily reach 115* or more on a sunny day even if it is cool outside. I have had gasoline in a 2 gallon plastic gas can push out of a loose vent cap when left out in the sun for a couple hours.

OK I'm done now. Let me know how the project turns out.

Dave

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

good to know...any pics of the fit..

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Small update.

Still not done. Been working on getting my motorcycle license.

A couple pics of the build and a shot of pretty much how it sits now.

I will be sanding it all smooth in the next couple days and then priming the whole thing followed by a few coats of black paint. The feet have been completely removed from the cell.

In the last pic you can see the beginning of the construction of the floor that will be bolted to the "cage".

83RDRACR

Looks great!!!!

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Another quick update.

I threw a few hours at this over the last weekend.

First image shows how I was planning the tabs to weld up. Makes sense when you see image 2, 3 and 4.

In 4 you can see the brackets bolted to the cell cage. The upper flat sections will be welded to the trunk floor.

5 shows the cage sanded sanded with a flapper disk.

6 shows the floor painted. The offset area is for the tank's sump.

7 shows the cage painted.

Next: Fit the tank in one last time and figure out a way to support the cell. The bottom has a healthy bow in the sheet aluminum so I built in some offset between the cell and the floor when it is bolted on. I need to figure out how to fill this gap. My first idea is sway bar end link pucks. Maybe 6 of them. I can grind these down to be just the right shape and thickness so they preload the cell. Not sure how to keep them in place yet. Calking? no idea.

I will post pics and maybe I can get some suggestions on this next step. I will post up tomorrow.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

That looks great. Ive thought about a cell also. Id like to shave the gas door also but go with a behind the licen plate filler tube.

I have a vert so can easily do a firewall to seal the area off, etc..

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Not a bad idea. Is there a hatch motor to deal with?

Behind the license plate was my first idea too, but I wanted to keep my working original hatch motor.

Then I thought secret cutout door by the tail light, but then decided I wanted the entire system outside the passenger compartment.

So then I decided on a sealed trap door in the modded trunk. Open to access the cell living under the car. Open the cell, fill up, close all the doors.

This has been a lot of work and a long time coming. I think it will be super safe and never need to be replaced (the cell) but I am happy that with the removal of about a dozen screws I can drop the cell out from the bottom to any maintenance or troubleshooting.

Shaved gas door is cool too!

83RDRACR

Instead of trying to fill the gap how about reinforcing the the pan with some 1x1 angle so it doesent sag. Could even use aluminum if weight is a concern.

Something like this.


You may also want to put some kind of cushion between bottom of cell and the pan so no metal to metal contact to wear through the aluminum cell.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

my fuel tank sold by Nasty..made by Behind Bars Race Cars.fits 100%.. its a nice part...total cost from Nasty was $716 shipped save $100+ and order strait from BBRC...$599 with sending unit..
nasty is just the Middle man..that ya can cut out and save...plus they ship right to you...
http://www.behindbarsracecars.com/Se...aro+fuel+tanks

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Thanks articwhite.

Your suggestion seems like a great solution for someone who wanted to keep their fuel door.

I needed mine gone as I shaved my blinkers, antenna and door locks too. I wanted a custom shaved look to the car.

I needed another filling solution. My cell cost me $113 shipped with GM sending unit. Sort of like comparing apples to oranges.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

you don't have to use your factory gas cap door.. you're only limited by your imagination

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Imagination... and wallet.

In my eyes, for my build I could never justify that sort of cost for a tank.

Rear end, sure.
Driveshaft, OK.
Tranny rebuild, of course.

gas tank, not really.

If I was building this up in a nice shop and making everything top dollar, then of course yes.

Looks like a nice piece. I just would never buy one.

I actually thought about how to fill my tank for a long time when I decided I wanted to get rid of the fuel door. I didn't want to delete my pull down motor, and I didn't want to have a tube running thru the trunk well to the tank.

I even considered a gas cap in the wheel well, but then I figured filling at a gas station would suck.

After considering all these factors, there was no other choice but a fuel cell.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

I understand about cost.. I've had a few different fuel cells over the years just for the nitrous fuel supply.. This time I wanted a fuel system that will deliver a fuel supply to all my needs.. I have a 1 gallon fuel cell new in the box that goes in the battery used to go.. It'll be up for sale when the car is all bolted together.. Along with a lot of other new in the box parts.. When you change your mind in the middle of something it's spendee.. But it's fun shopping..