RPOL98

what is it you're trying to do? your earlier post didn't indicate the overall objective. are you swapping your ring & pinion?

you mention the carrier, so I presume you weren't trying to just replace the bearings or seal.

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

I am shimming it so my posi works again. Sorry for not mentioning it earlier.

RPOL98

sorry, I can't help you there. I've never disassembled my 9-bolt posi. I'm sure others can jump in and kibbitz.

rorym

Hi guys...I am running a Holden Torana hillclimb/sprint car with a 355ci in it. (medium sized 4 door, 2260 lbs)I am also running the same diff out of a Nissan Skyline R31 as it was the correct width for the car and has rear discs.
FYI we have a local manufacturer that makes a Detroit Locker style diff for these that I am running in the race car. With the exchange rate its pretty cheap too I would suspect. $599 locally.
Rory
http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/gfx/specials_2.pdf

tricky1

iTrader: (1)

You do if you want to get the splines in the cones and the end gears to align. You need to do this before bolting the carrier back to gether. Once the carrier is bolted back together it'll be damn near impossible to get them aligned.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info Rory!
What kind of oil (and additive?) are you running in your posi?

rorym

Its a Castrol Teflon based racing stuff...90/140 I think..will check.
R

rorym

http://forum.streetcommodores.com.au....php?t=8514961

R

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

OK, thanks, I use Castrol as well, Castrol SAF-XJ 90W140 ( SAF=Synthetic Axle Fluid), it's German made, but there's no teflon in it, I still use the GM additive together with the Castrol oil...

subroc

iTrader: (2)

Im going to bump this thread up from the past and add to the knowledge already presented here. For axle bearings, timken set9 is the correct part. For the wheel seal, the right hand (passenger seal) listed from timken is correct. The left rear (drivers side) is incorrect however. Im not sure when this happened but timken is supplying the incorrect seal and your axle will not bolt in with this seal. It is simply too thick to bolt the retaining plate on. I ended up getting another seal from napa for the drivers side. Also i do not recommend using the passenger side seal on the drivers side since the grooves are in the wrong direction for the rotation. That is all. Hope this saves someone from the grief that i had to go through with my bearing and seal install. So for quick reference for someone:

Bearings: Timken Set9
Passenger side seal: Timken #710......(whatever it said in the beginning)
Drivers side seal: Get from napa

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

The following ratios are from Glenn at http://www.9bolt.com/.

Hi James I'll give you what i've compiled so far, some of them I have guessed as I haven't had them on hand to count but I'm quite (very) confident they are correct. I've indicated which ones are confirmed.

Ratio P C

4.11 9 37
4.10 10 41
3.91 11 43
3.89 9 35
3.73 11 41 guess
3.70 10 37
3.50 10 35 guess
3.45 11 38
3.27 11 36 guess
3.23 13 42
3.08 12 37 guess
2.92 12 35 guess
2.77 13 36 guess

JamesC

xx_ED_xx

I am actually buying a car with one of these.

driver101

iTrader: (4)

my question is this how do i get one of the lokka kits for my camaro?? what would i order(interchange) cause thats looks like a doable solution to the posi cone problem

subroc

iTrader: (2)

Posi cones can be shimmed tight again. It wasnt too big of an ordeal for me to do for the first time and only cost me 40 bucks (30 for the machine work on the cones, and 10 for the shims).

87IrocZKid

How many hours of labor is it to swap out rears? Lets say im getting rid of my 10 bolt and getting a Borg Warner 9... without having to rebuilt anything what would it take to pull down my rear and replace it? Just trying to get an idea on the cost to have this done. Thanks!

tricky1

iTrader: (1)

It would take half a day at most if you have 2 people. The thing that may hold you up is the brake lines. Brake lines on 82 and 83's have a different flare than any year thereafter. It's not a bad problem but be advised so you don't end up changing brake lines once the rears in the car.

Edit: If you pull the rear end out it would most likely be in you best interest to go ahead and replace the fuel tank or at least drop it out replace the the fuel pump and the hose attaching it to the sending unit. But that's just my opinion. Good Luck!!!!!

87IrocZKid

I have a 1987 Iroc Z..... I found a guy selling a Borg Warner (ill include the link below) and know that the 10 bolt I have now is nowhere near as strong as the Borg Warner is. I dont really wanna have mine rebuilt so I have been searching for the 9 bolt.

Here is the link:

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAd?Ad...3iF7JPa2hyOsw*


Hopefully I can get this shipped and im HOPING its in good shape... any ideas on what a rebuilt would run for both the 10 and 9 bolt? Just to give me an idea. I know its more expensive to have the 9 but I would rather have the better rear.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Looking at the pictures in the link, I noticed the red color inside the axle.
When I changed the oil in my 9-bolt, last summer, I saw the same red color.
What is it, and is it normal??

( Btw, I wish somebody in my country was offering a 9-bolt for $ 275.....!!)

antman89iroc

Price and availability update.

Going through my 9 bolt now and have been doing a lot of reasearch. Here's what I've found.

Posi units.
I lucked up and got another 3 series off ebay. Tans Am Creations (ebay store) www.tacreationsusa.com (305) 769-0985 in FL Jeff has a lot of used components and is very helpfull. Right now he has a good 3 series posi for $300+ shipping.
Also www.9bolt.com (aka www.diffsolutions.com) has used and new components. New 3 series posi is $550+ shipping and a used unit is $300+. Shipping was around $100 for either.

Ring and pinion.
Lot's of sources carry the 3.70 gear. Summit 800-230-3030 Just Differentials 866-349-6801 to name a few. I went with National Drivetrain 866-427-0080 Jose had the Motive R&P and a complete install kit for $280+ shipping. Located in Chicago so UPS standard shipping time is pretty good. (to me anyway) West coasters may want to use Just Differentials since they're in WA and carry everything.

TA cover and stud kit.
Lots of sources. Of course, TA Performance 480-922-6807, Just Differentials, Summit. I went with Hawks 3rd gen 864-855-2694 because they had a little better price ($169.90+ shipping for girdle and stud kit) and the shipping was convenient for me.

So far my cost is $250 for the posi, $302 for R&P+kit and $184.90 for the girdle and stud kit. Allow for an additional $25 for oil and misc and it looks like I'll be into this for around $762. Not cheap, but should be as stout as a 9 bolt will get and about a third of the cost of a 12 bolt.

tricky1

iTrader: (1)

If anyone in the Mississippi Gulf Coast area's interested in one of these with the disc brakes, alum support cover and parking brake cables installed, ready to bolt in, let me know. I'll part with it for $500.

antman89iroc

Oh sure just after I ordered my parts! lol Actually, that's a good deal. What gear ratio and what was done to the posi?

antman89iroc

One more thing tricky1, why did you pull it and how did it hold up for ya?

tricky1

iTrader: (1)

I put in a Moser 12 bolt with a 4.11 gear. Our best ET's with the 9 bolt with a 3.27 gear was 12.46. Could've probably did better with a little more stall convertor. Couldn't stall it over 2000 rpms without pulling through the light. Still having that problem too. Last February we replaced the cones in the carrier. Got them from 9bolt.com. We raced it for a year without any problems. Kind of wish I would've kept it in spent the money on a stroker instead of the rearend. Oh well, live and learn.

antman89iroc

Ahh hindsight! 383 yes! That'll be my next investment when the l98 needs freshening up.

87IrocZKid

If I got a Borg Warner rear that has 1LE breaks and my car currently doesnt have them what exactly would that entail to swap out the rear I have now?

I am also curious as to what an estimated price would be to ship a rear lets say from texas to jersey?

loopingz

iTrader: (2)

Still available? Any unwanted noise on normal driving?

antman89iroc

FYI- I went through my 9 bolt this winter replacing the gears with a Motive brand 3.70, very low mileage posi, carrier stud kit, TA rear cover and new bearings etc. Holding up very well behind a built L98, TKO 600 and BFG drag radials. Aprox 450 RWHP with nitrous. 7.60's 1/8 mi and 1.75 60' times. Gonna get more agressive with the launch next time out. Hoping to get 60' times down closer to 1.50-1.60's.

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

Does anyone have a picture of the 9 bolt cone space window? I am trying to buy a rear, and I need the guy to take a picture of the gap, but I can't find him a picture to show as an example.

subroc

iTrader: (2)

Here is a picture of my 9 bolt carrier after i reshimmed it. You can see one of the windows on the side of the carrier towards the top right and just barely make out the cone and the gap between it and the carrier. There are two windows on each side of the carrier (one more on the other side of where u see and two below the ring gear). Now a good thing to note is even if the cones are touching the case does not necessarily mean the posi is useless, it just means that it may be bad and if its not bad it DEF needs a reshim.

mike_c

iTrader: (13)

Here's a picture of the cone space window:
http://www.9bolt.com/technical.html

tpi88camaro

iTrader: (7)

OK Robert,Look, you have no problems getting all the parts new here. And used. Prices reasonable.A used std open diff here is about $100-$200 - complete.You can bearing kits, cones, shafts, washers etc etc etc. Eevrything.There are various ratio changes also, but there are some limitations due to off set required from ring to pinion gears.
The cone thing is crap. Always a problem over time. And the std diff usually wears the little 'star' gear onto the pinion shaft.
I assume yours are 28 Spline type. not the older 25 spline units.
The Lokka is extremely durable. AUD$526 plus some freight, but can add into a box of parts easy enough. Check with the guys and let me know what you need /want and i will get some prices for you. Its no trouble.

regards,
Tom

tpi88camaro

iTrader: (7)

The above is the response i got from Tom Hewitson Tom@4wdsystems.com.au.

92orangestripes

hello, sorry to bug you but i have a question about the 9 bolt rear, i pulled the rear cover off and machined a bung with a 3/4 pipe plug welded in it, because the rubber was shot and i did not want to use another one, for the fear of leaking, because i rebiult it and the cover was repainted, i didnt want to ruin the paint, so the rear is in my shop, and i want to put the lube and cover in/on before i mount it back it, how much is the capacity ? since the cover hole is not the same, i dont want to ''overfill'' i guess, any help is greatly appreciated, though it seems a dumb question, thankyou SCOTT.........

luke4907

iTrader: (5)

Capacity is 1.8 qt. Recommended differential lubricant is GM P/N 1052271 PLUS 4oz of GM P/N 1052358 limited slip additive.

92orangestripes

ahhh, much thanx , i could not find this anywhere, i called our o riellys, autozone out here, but for some reason they hire poeple that dont know much or how to use the mauals in the store, they kept telling me 4qrts, and i know thats waay too much, thanx again luke.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

I always jack up the rear as much as possible, by doing so you can put about 1/2 liter( about 3/4 quart) more oil in the 9-bolt.
Since there is no oilpump/ oilpressure, some extra oil won't hurt at all.

92orangestripes

thanks again

FOX-GTA_89

is there any spool disponible or a detroit locker (equivalent) disponible in u.s.a?


will the GTO posi will direcly bolt on our diff if same series?

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

I read this a few months ago but I had to come back to look at something's again. Great thread!

Tom 400 CFI

This IS a great thread. I wish it was around back when I was "building" my 9 bolt back in the early '90's.

Another place that you can get 9 bolt parts is Six States. There are several around the west, but the Six States located in Salt Lake City, UT was/is able to get parts economically for the 9 bolt.

Side note: I got BW T5 parts through them VERY cheaply too.

FOX-GTA_89

What have you buy from them for a 9 bolt???

and i dont remember but there is a aftermarket axles shaft upgrade for 9 bolt, What brand again?

Tom 400 CFI

I bought shims, spcaers, bearings, and new cones, for mine.

IDK about axle shafts.

soundvide

Where the heck can i find axle shafts for the 9 bolt?

FOX-GTA_89

mooser they built some custom orders!!! but you should not be the first one to order some...

dave999

Moser will make axles for $345, they are aware of this rear end.
i need some in custom length for my Australian Mopar

the spline of the axle is as far as i can acertain the same as 28 spline shafts for Ford axles. in fact i have heard that dubious traders have tried to pass GM 9 bolt half shafts off as ford 9 inch half shafts to ill informed parties who discover all its not well when they spot the PCD mismatch......

yes you can get spools and Eaton True track

at a guess the Truetrac is an eaton product made for some other axle possibly late Pontiac GTO (or holden/Vauxhall Monaro for the rest of the world)

engineered by Harrop in Australia to fit a Borg warner M78 style beam axle or its IRS cousins running a 7.75 inch ring gear

or custom made for Harrop in australia in low numbers

http://www.harrop.com.au/drive_detai...99-TTRC9837-00

or
http://www.harrop.com.au/drive_detai...99-TTRC9492-00

ask them which is best. I think it is the latter but being resident of the UK get lost with the car model names and numbers as its 10 years since i last visited Australia

they are mighty expensive....

you may also like to try KAAZ for a clutch based LSD

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/kaaz-lsd-...item20b9385d91

or
http://www.efihardware.com/products/...-differentials


parts for standard posi

http://stores.ebay.com.au/Street-and-Strip-Gears?_rdc=1

note if you go to this ebay shop from any ebay other than Ebay.com.au you will see nothing listed

i.e Use the link above to see what they sell

but they will ship abroad if you phone them up
and of course remeber to state that you don't pay sales tax (GST) if its an export sale.

they also sell the True track
and new standard posi
spools
mini spools
new cones
and cross shafts for the spider gears

all of them will be series 3 carriers as the series 2 are really just fit for spares in Oz as most came with a 2.77:1 gear set

all refered to as Borg Warner

if you have an Open 9 bolt with 28 spline axles

and fancy a locker centre

http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/index.php?id=29

ask for one for a BW M78 with 28 spline axles.....
these are locked all the time and unlock when a wheel goes faster than the drive dictates it should.

i.e in the wet you will have fun as the inner wheel looses traction at the point just before the thing unlocks.....
they click and clonk but you can tweak the spring pressure to make them manageable.

hope this helps

Dave

FOX-GTA_89

any spool except from www.9bolt.com???

dave999

My guess is all mini spools for these are made in the same place.

the spline count and size for the axles is the same as ford 28 spliners

then its just a case of drilling the mini spool for the cross shaft. if they make them for Fords they can make them simply for 28 spline 9 bolt centres.


anyway

bit of history to set the record right due to the odd innacuracy in the first post of this thread

http://www.spiceraxle.com.au/experience.htm

the products
M78 is half way down

http://www.spiceraxle.com.au/products.htm

a picture of the 3 types of limited slip centres they make

sperated cone version is what 9 bolts have



Hydratarak looks good but uses different sized axle and spline diameter on either side....seemingly stops harmonic vibration caused by axle twist...not good for swaps

Spicer Axle in australia won't talk to you really, unless you are looking for a supply of many 1000s of axles i.e your name is followed by a senior position at an automobile manufactures. they send you to the guys listed next


http://www.motospecs.com.au/

are the licenced distributors of Dana Corp and Spicer axle branded products from the US and Australian factories. They bulk sell to resellers. So i guess all those OEM cones and shims and gears you see for sale for the 9 Bolt axle probably come from them.
They also employ people who used to work for BorgWarner Australia, who know a lot about these axles and who have access to blue prints for the many versions of the 9 bolt axle used in fords nissans Mopar and GM cars, however they would rather deal with a reseller than the public like us

http://www.motospecs.com.au/

they will forward you on to a vendor who specialises in your car or their agents in your country who will probably carry these parts as a minor side line to some other profitable buisness......



M78 axle came in a number of types some of which you will only encouter on Ebay when looking for nice gears

early 1966-197?
25 spline, 2 pinion gear, no cone shims, small Left hand thread ring gear bolts, for 2.92:1 3.23:1 and 3.5:1 ratio gears


25 spline 2 Pinion gear, no cone shims unless at end of tolerance, small Left hand thread ring gear bolts for 2.77:1 ratio only. ring gear offset left by 4-5mm to fit in big pinion. centre will not work with any other gears with small bolts (possibly 6 cylinder Ford only)

25 Spline 4 pinion gear no cone shims unless out of tolerance, small left hand thread Ring gear bolts for 2.77:1 ratio only. Ring gear offset. centre no use with any other gear sets used in Aussie Mopar 360 engined Luxury intermediate sized cars 1970-> to end of production

25 spline cone centres tended to have 1-2 mm clerance of cone in case when you looked in the windows by the bearings

the above seemed to be supplied to ford and chrylser in Australia thru the '60s and '70s

Later (1982->>) OEM supply contracts with Ford GM Nissan.
25 and 28 spline centres
2 and 4 pinon gears moving to all 28 spline and all 4 pinion gear centres as the 80s moved on
always odd number of teeth on the pinion dictating that 3.23:1 gearset became 3.27:1 3.5:1 became 3.45:1 etc.
these ring gears use a bigger bolt...
To fit to an early centre, the centre needs to be drilled out to the diameter of the bolt shank.
vice-versa you need to sleave the bolts for a 70s ring gear for a later centre.

the offset (series 2??) centre appears to have been used with 2.77:1 ratio (and 3.08:1 ratio gears for GM only)

you can make a ring gear spacer and dowel it onto the centre and sucessfully use longer ring gear bolts if you have a new old stock one of these and don't want to consign it to spare parts

but the 2.92:1 ratio fits the other (series 3) centre..... 2.92:1 is i think a Australian Mopar and Ford ratio

vast majority will have been the normal (series 3) centre
all will have shims between cone and side gear
clearance of cone to case end is 4mm+ when new

How to spot on ebay

offset centre for 2.77:1 and 3.08:1 gears (series 2??)
Normal centre for all other gears (Series 3??)

basically look at the ring of bolts that hold the centre together
series 2 the bolt heads bolt down to a flat tower that is 1 mm above the ringear flange
series 3 the bolt heads i.e the towers they bolt into are a good 5 mm tall above the flange..

i.e the bolt heads sit in excatly the same plane in relation to the bearing on that side but the ring gear flange is 4-5 mm to the right when looking into the rear. thus more of the tower that the bolt goes into is visible.

basically if the bolt looks like its flat againts the flange for the ring gear its a series 2

not sure where the series 2 and series 3 names came from because its only used in the US as far as i can tell.

Dave

FOX-GTA_89

really intersting...but my 9 bolts is a series 3 with a 3:45ratio with stock posi i dont see any full spool or way to install a minispool in my posi carrier?

dave999

OK no problem

Full spool Series 3 style for Borg warner M78 with 28 spline axles
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Borgwarne...item35ac592689

ring gear and pinion shaft in then shim for gear pattern....easy to say not easy to do

mini spool
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ford-Hold...item35acad0855

but you will have to ask them how to fit the mini spool onto a cross
a 2 pinion gear centre is easy..1 shaft for the small gears
how you fit a mini spool into a 4 gear centre cross i don't know....

but ask them, this is the buiness that owns the ebay shop above
http://gjdiffs.com.au/default.asp.

they provided the information for the article in Australian Street Machine magasine mentioned in the 1st or second post of this thread.....i'll see if i can find it.

Mine, well the ones i have dismantled, are all 2 pinion gear 25 spline axle centers

my 9 bolt 28 spline 4 pinion one is too good to be pulled apart yet and is in an axle.

Hope this helps
I belive
www.romac.com.au

make the spools.....they don't sell direct to us though...they supply other vendors

Dave

dave999

Oooooh

Romac have US distributors
which means you can probably avoid some import duty and have someone to send it back to if it doesn't fit

http://www.romac.com.au/US_distributors.html

PS thier timing chains are iswis from germany and their hardend 2 row gears with torrington bearings are excellent
romac SFI approved balancers are also very good

Dave