Andre#4

Please no tire kickers. I know this car is way out of the price range of 99% of the people on this site, so please, have mercy on me. If you are interested in buying this car and have questions, AND you have enough CASH to buy this car, you are welcome to call me or email me. This is going to take CASH money here guys...No trades, and don't think about financing. I don't mind if you want to talk or make friends, just don't pretend you are going to buy the car if you aren't. and if you don't want to buy, keep the communications to email or pm's before you start with the phone calls. The damn thing rings off the hook and I am caring for two elderly people here. From now on, the fine print is not as important. Read it if you want, but it is not necessary.

I know that there are a couple guys on here who have money, so that is why I am putting it here. This car is for a collection or museum.

I don't have pictures. I will post them when I get them. car is mint. you don't need pictures. All mint cars look the same in pictures. This car is a 1 footer and pictures are taken at 20 feet so they are pointless

1991 Pontiac Firebird Formula 1LE (Only 64 were ever built and most were either used in races or for Firehawk builds)

time capsule/mint/as-new
20 years of climate controlled indoor storage without sunlight
Driven only 1500 miles during the last 18 years.

bright red/light grey
5 speed manual trans
All original including tires and battery. Tires have 90% tread, car still looks new with them.

Asking Price $17,500
Dealers usually ask $24,000 for camaro 1LE's which are not as rare or good looking. This car looks like a 1991 Firehawk.

This is a REAL 1LE, with a letter of authenticity from Pontiac Motor Division. (NOT PHS, the private services firm that SELLS people info about Pontiacs) The letter states that this car with this VIN is a 1LE and that only 64 Firebird Formula's with the 1LE Showroom Stock Racing Package were made. (I have since seen the number 46 printed all over the web, (for the number of 1LE formulas built in 1991), but I suspect the numbers got transposed somewhere. Either Pontiac was wrong on the letter they sent me, or someone else transposed it wrong and everyone else cited his information. This is pretty common actually. One guy puts a wrong figure, then everyone copies him, then it becomes the accepted figure. At any rate, the 46 number, if true, is a lower number than my number, so it could only be good news if it was Pontiac that got the numbers transposed wrong. But I doubt this, because I asked them on the telephone before I asked them for the letter, and they told me on the phone that the number was 64. It was then that I asked them for a letter confirming this, and my car's authenticity, and they obliged. They did not ask me to pay for it either. This was done through the telephone number, 1-800-PM-CARES.)They were made strictly for racing in races such as: SCCA, IMSA, Canadian Players Challenge, Autocross, and Pro Solo races. They were not generally supposed to be sold to regular customers. Air conditioning was forbidden to dissuade regular customers. This car WAS sold to a regular customer, and it was NEVER RACED! Since most of these cars were raced, beat up, and disposed of, the number of remaining cars is very small. The number of as-new/time capsule mint condition cars is smaller still. Then figure how many of those are painted in resale red like this one??? I only sell because my stupid mother became a gambling addict and now I have to save her house. She is so stupid. She fell for the casino promotion where they give you ten dollars of "Free money" to gamble with. She had never been in a casino before. Now she loses her whole paycheck within 1 day every time she gets paid. She can't drive anywhere without stopping there to "win some free stuff". What a dumb situation. It kills me. This was the car I was never going to sell.

It is destined to be a very valuable car. It is in the same class as the Shelby Mustangs, Copo, Yenko, and Nickey Camaros, Swiss Cheese Pontiacs, and others. In other words, this is not just a time capsule firebird, like there are some of on the web. It is a time capsule rare collectors item. They only made 64 of these. And I don't mean they made 64 red ones. Or 64 red ones with grey interiors. If you are going to count option combinations as rarity, they only made one of these. But that is not important. What IS important is that this car has the desirable racing package, and there were only 64 Firebird Formula's with the racing package made. (Since some of those were Firehawks, the number of non Firehawk 1LE's is even less.)

I bought this car in 1993 from the original owner in San Diego. It had about 11,000 miles when I bought it. It sat in my house from 1993 to 1998, when I could not help but get it registered and drive it for a couple weeks. I could not stand to keep looking at it without driving it. Within a couple weeks, I realized I could not drive it regularly, so I put it back in the house. It has been stored in my house this whole time. Except for 1998, when I registered it for the road, it has been unregistered, and only used for occasional runs on the farm roads around my house. It has 13k miles now. It is in original condition with all original items. Original Goodyear Eagle ZR50 Tires, with original wheel weights, since the tires were never rebalanced. They even have the original air in them. They have never leaked I have the original floor mats, window sticker, California Vanity License plates, with "FORM 1LE" for the plate #, and more. I have a file that is an inch thick that I got from the original owner in 1993 when I bought it. I even saved the original battery when it died years ago. It is all original with nothing ever changed. Never raced. Never even broke rear tires loose. Interior is as new. No flaws or signs of use. This is the one you want. None of the bolts under the hood have ever had a wrench touch them. The tires have 90% tread, and no wear is visible. They look new. (I have a new 245/50/16 ZR50 Gatorback tire as a spare, so I know what a new one looks like. The tread is very deep) They look like 100% tread. No paint work. It is a time capsule car. the 13k miles the car has are not visible. Most cars with 13k miles have wear visible on the front tires on the edges of the tread. This car does not show wear there. Most 13k mile cars (especially Formulas) have stone chips behind the rear wheels from rock spray. This car does not. (at least I think it does not). Most 13k mile cars have the rear tires worn from burnouts. Not this one. Most have carpet soiling on drivers side...especially with the light grey carpet...you get a brown spot. Not on this car. The grey carpet still shines and sparkles in the light.

It is bright red with light grey interior. (this is the most desirable color combo...there was even an article in one of the major car magazines in 1991 where the author stated right in the article that he would order his 1LE car as a Formula Firebird with a 5 speed in Bright red with grey interior)

It has the desirable 5 speed Manual Transmission, and 3.45 posi rear end. Performance enhancement group, G80 Limited Slip, G92 Performance Axle Ratio, C60 air conditioning DELETE, all the right stuff. i can't remember it all right now.

I do remember about most of the 1LE equipment.

It has

LB9 230 HP 5 Liter V8 (this engine sounds very raspy and angry and scary. Hard to describe. Not the usual mellow sound you get from an lb9. A 340hp L98 has a mellow sound, like a truck engine, compared to this. I have not had 305's with this horsepower rating, so maybe this is just what they are supposed to sound like. I have had lots of L98's and LC2's, and not many LB9's. usually my LB9's have an automatic trans and they sound like L03's, and can't get out of their own way. This is a different animal altogether. And an lb9 with 205 hp and an automatic is 2 seconds slower in the 1/4 mile than this car, and I don't know how 25hp translates to 2 seconds. usually it takes more than that. SO it must have more than 230hp. The 1993 car with 275hp lt1 has the same performance, so that says something doesn't it? This car does it with less cubic inches. So, I think the engine is working harder to make that power and that is the raspy sound you get.)
5 Speed Trans
No air conditioning (c60 delete)
1LE big brakes...12" front with PBR twin piston aluminum calipers and quick change brake pads you can change without tools in 30 seconds
1LE Aluminum Drive shaft (saves weight and reduces rotational inertia)
1LE Steeper 5th gear ratio in the transmission (more torque and more speed)
1LE 18 gallon gas tank with anti slosh baffles and modified fuel pickup, required because the brakes were so good they could starve the fuel pump.
1LE Special shocks and struts
1LE Special bushings in the suspension
1LE Aluminum spare wheel

140mph speedometer
8000rpm tach

G80 Posi rear end
G92 Engine oil cooler
Level 3 Suspension components
4 wheel disk brakes

All equipment of the performance enhancement group
dual catalytic converter exhaust
245/50ZR16 Goodyear Eagle ZR50 Tires
Deep Dish High Tech Turbo Wheels 16x8"


This car does have 3 unusual options for a 1LE. The original owner chose these options carefully. He told me he did not want to add anything that would weigh down the car too much or ruin the value of the 1LE package.

A radio with tape player (most had no radio or a basic radio. He wanted to drive the car and wanted entertainment)
A rear window defogger (the original owner decided when he chose the options that the weight of the little wires in the window would not effect the performance, and could be useful)
A rear cargo security screen (the original owner thought that this would be ok to have, as it is a removable item, and can be removed from the car for weight reasons, and it is useful for hiding items in the trunk)

In regular 1LE fashion, this car has

Crank Windows
Manual mirrors
Manual seats
Manual locks
Manual heater controls
Manual trunk release
No cruise control
No t tops (thank god...T-tops ruin all these cars...Ruin the looks and ruin the structure and suspension)
No power antenna
No cup holders
No split rear seat
No fog lights or ground effects (formulas didn't have these anyway)
I can't remember anything more

It does have an air bag, tilt wheel and delay wipers, but these were standard items that could not be deleted. These cars had to be Showroom Stock, so they had to have all the items that the regular cars had. At least all the standard items.

Note: (this car feels like no other firebird I have owned. I've owned 12 of them, all from model years 1989 to 1992 including 4 turbo trans ams, most of which were bought new. It feels more like a BMW M3 in the stiffness and response of the brakes and suspension and steering Very tight...no nose dive in braking and no front end lift on acceleration like all the other F cars I have owned. Even cars with so called 1LE suspensions like the Turbo Trans Am's supposedly have. I say supposedly, because there is no way the turbo trans am has the same suspension as my Formula 1LE. The Turbo Trans Am is like a yacht compared to the Formula. There must be important differences, but that is another story altogether and the turbo trans am guys get all riled up when I say that but they have not driven both cars, so they can't compare. Besides, the tta must have had different springs and struts on account of the different engine, and I know the bushings were different because of the color of them and those three things could make the difference)

I will not be available to show the car until I get back to florida, which will be in the next few weeks.

If you have questions, please use email to contact me if possible. IF it is too difficult for you to use email, you may call me 24 hours a day. BUT DON'T call me JUST to ask for pictures, because I can't get them till I go to Florida. You don't need pictures, because the car has no flaws. Just look at the factory brochure pictures or google it. I will get pictures as soon as I can and post them here and send them to people. Thank you.

My email

reagan.doug@yahoo.com

Phone

484 538 8601 call 24 hours a day

amoede

iTrader: (2)

Sent you an email.

87 player bird

Sounds like a nice car, too rich for my blood tho, good luck with the sale. Just a note, formys were not used in the players racing series as they were much lighter than the camaro's, and t/a's. Wish I had the $$ Rare one for sure.

t_towner

Great car! Good luck w/ the sale.

Can we see some pics?

1991Formula350

If you ask me, Id say you are asking way too little for this car my friend! Please, take it off the market and hold on to it, but again, that is a steal for the money. Take care!

Andy

Andre#4

interesting about them not being in players. Was there some problem with the lower weight? I would think that is an advantage and always wondered why anyone would buy a 1le ta to race since they are heavier. Did that race have a minimum weight requirement?

87 player bird

Yes they did have a weight restriction. The formy's were significantly lighter than the camaros. The camaros /ta's were real close in weight ( I think 20 or 40 lbs difference).

90 GTA Black

Why would they be lighter?

Duane's 91 Z/28

iTrader: (1)

Formys didnt have ground effects.

slinky24car

well since im in the 99% category,good luck on sale egomaniac!lol

Andre#4

About the pictures of the 1991 formula 1le


The car is in Florida, in our house down there.

I am in Pennsylvania right now. I will notify the board when I am going to Florida. I will send the pics as soon as I get there.

Some business is going on here that I can 't get away from and it wont be concluded until the 3rd week of july. I may be able to go down to FL before then but I am not sure. I will have meetings here in the next 2 weeks, and the dates are not set yet, so I can't leave. After the meetings of the next couple weeks, I will try to go down there. If that is not possible, it will be after the 3rd week in July, at which point I can leave here for good (Hurray)

Sorry for the inconvenience. My work here was scheduled to be finished by now.

As far as the egomaniac comment, that is funny. I can't help the fact that this car is priced way above 99% of the cars on here. Just because I happen to have a car worth $17k I don't see how that makes me an egomaniac. That is not enough to buy a Volkswagen Jetta. It is chump change. 4 days wages for an attorney. Plus, once this car is sold, all the money is going straight to the government. It will pay a whopping 6 months worth of real estate tax. I get nothing. Just buying some time to keep them from taking our house. And the car will be gone. So don't get it into your head that I am somehow better than you. The less you own, the luckier you are. Owning stuff just makes you a slave to the stuff and a victim to the government who taxes that stuff. I would rather have never owned this car than to have to sell it now and give the money to the government, after saving it for 18 years. I should have beat it to death and had some fun. I am ending up with nothing here. I wanted to keep it until it was a classic car, and benefit from the recognition that it will receive after it becomes classic. All the magazines talked about these factory race cars when they came out, and how they would eventually be in the same class as classic shelby R cars, copo camaros, etc.

Besides, have you checked the prices on new parts for these cars? this car has at least $50,000 worth of essentially NOS parts on it.


People seem to have no problem spending $80,000 for a Cadillac Escalade (a chevy suburban with ugly ghetto tacky plastic phony cadillac grille on front, and some 20" ghetto chrome wheels), but when it comes time to spend $17,000 on a rare muscle car of which only 64 were made, a factory race car no less, that is too much money. Strange. But I have always seen things differently. When everyone else wanted mustang 5.0's, I had GTA's and Formulas. When everyone was switching to 4th gens to go faster, I switched to turbo trans am. I actually started crying in 1993 when 3rd gens were shitcanned for the plastic 4th gen with the motor under the dashboard and the short hood and long windshield. I only put this ad here hoping there will be some people on here who may want something like this, which is not often offered for sale anywhere.

I am selling this now, before it goes up in value, because I NEED THE MONEY. It is that simple.

1991Formula350

I agree 100% with you! I have had mine for sale forever and nothing, just penny pinchers. It is a shame as I get so many compliments and stares at it but when it comes to it is for sale, people back off. Some people pay 25k for new compact trash or like you said a high price for an Escalade and a collector like this cant get a penny. I do love these cars, but wont buy one ever again honestly. Andrew

87 player bird

Wish I had the dough. I've been trying to sell a clean 80 z-28 4 gear for 3 years, not over priced, rust free with new from the clutch back (muncie for petes sake) and had would ya take 1200$ for it? I feel your pain budd's.

formulajoe_2

What would it take to buy the #6 Firehawk?

Andre#4

Firehawks cost $50k minimum unless you get lucky and buy from a used Isuzu dealer who just took one in trade for a v-6 grand vitara. Besides that example which happened a couple years ago, I can't think of one for less than 50k in recent memory. Actually, there was one in Hawaii with high mileage ( over 10,000 miles) that was less than $50k. I think $35k or so. It was a green car. Took a long time to sell. People were afraid of it for some reason. I don't know why. I would have bought it.

And that one from the Isuzu dealer was sold immediately to a 4th gen oriented dealer who resold the thing within a month for a $30k profit. That is an example of an Isuzu dealer who thought, "here I have a 1991 Firebird Firehawk with a few thousand miles. If I can get $15k for it, I will be doing great because regular firebirds are worth $2,000." Or maybe he thought, "well, 92 firehawk is not listed in the used car price guide, but 93 firehawk is, so I will just take the 93 value and subtract a year of depreciation"

How wrong he was...
I'm sure he was happy to get his price within one day, but when 50 more phone calls came in clamoring for that car, he realized that Grand Vitaras and classic muscle cars are different animals. Those 91 and 92 firehawks were available Brand new for $20k in the Dupont Registry during the years 1993-1995. They cost $40-$50 in 1992 depending on options. I was waiting for them to depreciate below $20k but it never happened. Before I knew it they were up to $50 and i missed my chance. These special racing type cars are special and the market eventually recognizes them and values go way up when the recognition comes. Challenge Corvettes used to be cheap but eventually they were recognized. Same will happen with 1LE cars especially rare ones like Firebirds and Trans ams. (most 1le cars were camaros. There were hundreds and hundreds of them)

And whoever traded the firehawk into that Isuzu dealer is even dumber. that person must have only gotten $3-$4k for the trade in. Probably an heir of the original owner. Some dumb consumer who thought a cool sporty Grand Vitara v6 would be cooler than a 1991 Formula Firehawk. I hope they are happy. Probably watching MTV. and texting.

formulajoe_2

That is crazy about that trade in deal. Im pretty sure if I ever see one for sale im going to snag it up (the wife is half-way cool with it too). One of the coolest GM cars ever IMO.

Krik

iTrader: (4)

Insulting half of the members. What a great way to sell a car.

HawkFanatic

iTrader: (1)

Beautiful car!!
Have you thought about posting it on Firehawk.org? People are always looking for 91-92 Firehawks on there, sometimes bumping year old posts to see if the car is still for sale.
Your car is the next best thing for half the price, might be worth a shot…

fluff

I had the pleasure of driving this awesome fire chicken back in 1995, got sideways sidestepping into 3rd gear. Boy those were the says! Did you replace the plug wires the rats were chewing through? I hope to hear back from you dre! If be interested in the 1le fo sho if it's still avail. Just totaled my car on Mon so getting insurance soon.. Hopefully soon.. Give me a call. Same # as 16 years ago 7274926841

Podium

iTrader: (2)

I'm sure this is a nice car and all but it is no way in the class of a copo, yenko, or a Shelby.

fluff

Not arguing what cars are in what class but if you insist, where can i get a copo, yenko, or Shelby (which I would NEVER buy) for so little $? Did any of those cars go ovr 290 mph like the banks ta of this Stock body style? I would prefer to buy another 89 turbo ta but good luck finding one with such low miles @ this price and they aren't nearly as rare as this car. Not nearly as fast either but neither is a 57 tbird but that's a highly sought after car these days isn't it!

You're right different class.

Podium

iTrader: (2)

Wow. LOL

fluff

I know.. Please excuse my rant Haha Where can I find one?

TVP122

iTrader: (5)

I love the car and love the ad .... and your right ... most people won't spend 17k on such an awesome car .... they would rather drive a honda with payments ....

John Cunningham

This comment is the best out of all of them : "this engine sounds very raspy and angry and scary"

Maybe if your a p_ _ _ _!

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Was hoping for pics when I opened this

another 99%er