Tongi

Yesterday, i met this guy who was racing with Trans-am's and Camaro's in the 80's. He told me that the race was organized by GM and they toured all over north america. He also told me that he has brembo brakes in the box from those cars. He told me that regular GM brakes were too weak to race. So brembo made those ones for racing. He also has a camaro racing engine. He's willing to sell me those parts. And i'm thinking about getting them. Do you have any info on those races, brakes and camaro engines used in those cars. I plan to use the engine while i'm rebuilding my original engine. And how much i should pay for those parts?

avro206

I think he must be refering to the Players Challenge series.

As fas as I know, they raced in Canada only. Engines were balanced and blue-printed but other then that they were stock.

Brembo brakes might have been used in 87, since there were no 1LE brakes yet but I don't know about 88 and up.

I had a Players challenge IROC (87) and I was told it had brembo calipers.

A friend of mine is much more versed in this, so I will pass it onto him for a further reply. (he has an 88 Players Trans Am)

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

If you don't buy the Brembo's, PLEASE contact me. I want to buy them ASAP.

Thanks,

Alex

Mark_ZZ3

The Brembo's were indeed a GM part offered to the race teams only. The short story is that the Brembo brakes were a development program with-in GM for better brakes on the F-body. It involved the 12" caprice rotor, modified spindles and Brembo twin piston calipers. It was around the 1986 season when GM blew the dust of the brake program and installed them on the cars. The reason they could accomplish this so quickly was that it was already in the works.

In 1986, GM acutally used the stock brake pads from an F-body with the larger rotors and brembos. Obviously they did not last the rigors of racing and were replaced with race only pads.

If you find someone with a set, it should include a fully modified spindle, caliper mounting bracket, caliper carrier and the caliper. Basically all the same stuff as the 1LE brakes ... but Brembo calipers.

The really interesting part of this store is that the Brembo package was the predessor to the 1LE heavy duty front brakes. I assume it was cheaper to mass produce the PBR calipers as compared to the Brembo's.

I do know of a fellow that has all the part numbers from brembo for these calipers. Odd thing is that the caliper cross references to a Fierrai part number. I don't know how true that is ... but can you imagine buying brake pads for it?!?

If the Brembo's still carry the GM part number on them, then they are neat peice of history. Otherwise they are just a neat set of brakes. IDeally if you had an original race car that was suppose to have those brakes, it would be a great find.

In Canada, the Players Challenge series used the Brembo brakes in 1986 and 1987. The majority of the brakes were returned to GM at the end of the season. In the US, I don't think they had the same restriction.

A fellow by the name of 1LEPrototype can tell you more about the US side of the racing programs.

Mark.

Tongi

Thanks for the info. After knowing that the race was players challenge i managed to find some more info. Thanks everyone for sharing their knowledge on those. I'll be checking the parts out tomorrow. I'll take some pictures and post them here. I asked the guy about the US division of the race before and he told me that Canadian drivers were also racing in US. I also found some info on the engine and i think i'm going to get the engine too. If i'll change my mind i'll let you guys know.

Mark_ZZ3

I did not see you were in Canada. If by chance you don't use the Brembos or don't buy them, please let me know. I could use those as part of a race car restoration.

If you want to know more about the Player's challenge series and cars, drop me a note. I've gather quite a pile of information ... production numbers, tech details, etc.

Mark.

Tongi

I think i'm going to buy the brakes, since i need to change the brake system anyway. He might even have more brakes in store. I think he was racing in players challenge for a long time. Also, if something happens and i won't buy them i'll let you guys know. I'm going to get the camaro engine that was build for the players challenge and i might need some information about that. If you have some questions that you would like to to ask to an old players challenge driver, let me know. I'll gladly get the info you need from the guy. He's a great man and can talk about cars for hours. Thanks.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

Dang it, I made first all on the brakes if he didn't get them!

Please let me know if he has another set!

Thanks!

Alex

Mark_ZZ3

You should know the brake pads for the Brembo's are not something you can pick up at the local parts store. There wasn't and factory part numbers for them, rather GM had 30 or so sets when they built the prototypes. They then went to various brake companies to MAKE the pads ... in which case they cut out the backing plates and glues on the different materials for the racing program.

The Pistons in the calipers are also unique to the Player's (and firehawk) program ... so getting rebuild parts is another challenge.

In my opinion, they are a terrible choice for a regular driver as maintenance will be an issue.

1LE's are a far better (and cheaper choice).

... and no I am not trying to persuade you against the brakes ... just sharing the facts.

Mark.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

Yeah persuade him against them I want them j/k

Actually I can get pads for my Firehawk easily although when I tell people I need front pads for a Ferrari F-40 they look behind into the parking to see if I'm joking...

Mark_ZZ3

Actually your not far off ... the only info I have on the Brembo calipers suggests the only "off the shelf" brake pad is for a Ferrari.

I'd imagine there are other pads that are close which could be made to work.

Some of this low production stuff is really neat ... but for a street driver it tough to repair.

The neat part of the Brembo package was that GM actually designed it as part of the F-body program to put on the cars. I don't know the whole story yet, but it was shelfed ... and then quickly brought back for the player's racing program. The reason the PBR caliper's came to be was that they were already in mass production for the corvette and easily adapted to the brake package they had designed. Hence the 1LE package was born. 1988 was the first year the big brakes were installed on the f-body on the assembly line, but 1989 was the first year they were part of the production line. In 1988, the brakes were built and assembled in Canada, shipped to Van Nuys, and installed on the cars. In 1989 they came out of the parts bin. That's a little know trivia question about which cars were first to have the big brakes.

The early Brembo package actually had caprice rotors with two sets of lug holes as they re-drilled new caprice rotors. Later on, they got blanks and they came with one set of lug holes.

Mark.

Tongi

I don't mind buying Ferrari pads for my car. I didn't see the guy today. I guess i'll be able to check them out and get into details tomorrow. I found those stuff about 1LE on the internet.

Tongi

Mark_ZZ3

Those articles are from my web page ... ;-)



You can think of the Brembo package as the prototype to the 1LE package. Same idea, just different calipers.

If you do buy them, would you mind taking pictures of them? It would be a great addition to the thirdgen archives.

Mark.

Tongi

I will take the pictures for sure. What about the engine. Is there anything i should know about. Also, how much do you think i should pay for those?

Mark_ZZ3

If the engine is a players challenge engine, it will have a decal on top of the plenum that says "Gm Motorsports - CPC Flint Engine". And many bolts on the engine will have paint on them (a method of sealing the engine to prevent racers from tampering).

The engine is a regular production engine, however it has been dyno'd to be within the same power range as all the players engines. All the components are cast from the same moldings, cam profiles checked and injectors flow rate matched. They wanted to ensure the cars were dead even.

As for prices ... that all depends. Someone who "wants" a players engine will pay top dollar. If you just want a TPI, then look at what the local wreckers are charging. Bottom line ... the players challenge engine doesn't make any more horsepower (as in bigger cam), but it is certainly on the top end of the batches GM made.

The brakes are another odd thing. If you just want bigger brakes, price out what you would pay for 1LE. Then go from there. Again ... if you want "those" brakes you will pay more money. If you just want better brakes, then set your price accordingly.

MArk.

okfoz

Call Brembo, they have some sets laying around, but they want a small fortune for what they have, there not complete. I guess they use the some of the same pieces as the 1LE's (Spindles I believe).

I considered doing that, but if I remember right the price was $2500 for an incomplete set, I could get the Baer brakes for a ton cheeper, and get the rears too...

John

Tongi

I don't think guy needs money, those are some parts that he has from the players challenge and he's not doing anything with them. I think i'll be able to get those pretty cheap. Cheaper then the regular camaro engine or brake system. That's for sure.