I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
12-01-2011, 12:21 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
First, here is a brief story of the restoration of My car. My first car was a 1987 Firebird 305 TBI that I bought in 1995 when I was 20. The eventual criteria: a third gen Firebird that had functioning secondaries . I didnt even know what TPI was at the time. It taught me alot about cars, because it was a turd - so i fixed quite a few things on it. The biggest lesson I learned from it was what not to do. After probably more than $10,000 put into it the end result was a car that was fast...for a base model firebird, but not nearly as fast as a Formula or an IROC or a 4th gen. It had a junkyard posi rear end with 3.42's, purportedly out of an 85 IROC, and 4-wheel disc brakes that didnt work worth a damn because it had a rear drum to disc conversion (inherent with the rear end change) but no perportioning valve. Air shocks in the back , and a pretty much "shot" suspension. It had a carburated, over-cammed, L82 headed 355 that always stumbled off the line, and would often backfire. It had a very nice interior that i put together from junkyard cars back when good parts for these could still be had from the bone yards. and the new paint was Viper Blue (Chrysler). The original color was two tone: blue over grey on the bottom. This was the finished product. Yeah, I thought slots were cool because they looked good on a wrecked 3rd gen I saw in the junkyard.
In 1999, i pulled the trigger on a blue 1996 Z28 Camaro. I had sort of pined for a 4th Gen since I first saw them in '93. Then after having my '87 'hotrod' soundly beaten by a couple, that made them seem even more appealing. So, i found a used '96 with 40K on the clock for some 14K. This was my first time buying a car from a dealership. It was my third car. I bought a 1991 Cavalier Z24 with a 3.1, for my wife before she ever had a lisence. It had a salvage title. So did my 87 Firebird. anyway, I would never admit it to myself, but I think that Z24 might have been faster than my 87. I traded in the Cavalier as a down payment on the Camaro. Driving my Camaro, I felt as though I finally had a 'real deal' sports car. I did apply the lessons learned from the 87 Firebird project to the 4th gen Camaro, when it comes to excesses and neglections to avoid. I did in fact learn a lesson or two on the Camaro. I finished the Camaro (for the most part) a couple of years ago. But by then, I was already kind of sick of the car. The hyper-sensitivity of OBD II, and extreme difficulty in working on the LT1 were factors. Also, the fact that reports were in, and one could not help but feel a certain sense of inferiority with the presense of the Gen 3 Small Blocks, aka: LSX's. Another factor is that the looks of these plastic cars became passe too soon. Even when parked beside my 87 Bird which i would later trade in for $2500 for a 2000 Chevy Cavalier for my wife and be glad to be rid of it - even when parked next to that, the Camaro's looks seemed a little dowdy. After owning it for 12 years, in the end, my Camaro was a fast, full bolt on car that dynoed aprox. 300 RWHP and 326 RWTQ. And I am proud to say that looks wise, I acheived everything that was good about the looks of 4th gen back when they were the hottest things on the road. One lesson learned: lowering an already low car leads to some PITA accessibility and driveability issues.
The Camaro was sold a couple months ago, and was just loaded up onto the transport truck last night. For $6500, the buyer got one hell of a deal. There were no regretfull goodbyes watching the car being hauled away, as the logistics of the situation didnt allow for it. Funny how my first car, a 3rd gen was replaced by a 4th gen, which was in turn replaced by a 3rd Gen, the 89 Formula which I now own.
In the meantime, other cars have come and gone. A couple that still have, and have no plans to get rid of are my 67 Pontiac Firebird, bought in 1999, and my 89 Mustang LX 5.0, bought in 2009. Gone are my 72 Nova project that never got off the ground, my 68 Mustang project that also never got off the ground, and my first attempt at an 89 Firebird project, which also never saw the light of day.
Now to my current 1989 Formula.
"Its never gonna come easy, when youre talkin' about a third gen"
I had had my Black 89 project since 2003 and it was now 2010. I had it transported (along with my Nova project) from El Paso, TX to Presidio, TX back to El Paso, and then to Washington State. I pulled the non running (barely running) motor and tranny out for a paint job that didnt go thru in Presidio, TX. Sammy, you blew it. After buying hundreds of dollars in new parts (trim and weather stripping, ect) they hadnt done a thing to the Formula 350. And all my new parts were getting buried under piles of junk at this not very tidy shop. So i repoed the car. Then I moved to Washington.
I knew that while I would often dream of finally having the car finished that this car needed ALOT of work and ALOT of money. I also knew that 1989 was the year I liked best, and Formula 350 was the trim i liked best. so, i would often paruse eBay to see what was out there as far as Formula 350's - especially 89s and preferably in black. Then in February 2010, I came across something of interest. A Maui Blue (Medium Blue Metalic) Hardtop 89 Formula 350 with only < 30K on the odometer. And nobody seemed to be bidding on it. So I emailed this guy, all too eager to give this guy my money, and it turned out he only was asking for a very reasonable 7500 which I was able to talk him down to 7K - a very reasonable price for an 89 Formula 350 with such low mileage and by his own discription was in perfect running condition, having been pampered for its whole life. I figured with my good credit, I could get a 7000 dollar loan, no problem. As it turned out though, the banks were real ***** about lending out the money that we tax payers bailed them out with so that they could continue to lend money. I had to put up the title of my truck as collateral. Then, once i gave this guy the money, he became very impossible to communicate with. He never answered his phone and would only communicate via email. I also had a fairly bad experience with the transport company which took more than a month to get the car to me. And then the real fun began. I had already had to pay an addition 200 bucks to the transporters because they couldnt get the car to start - which was a suprise to me that i was certainly hoping was just a really, really dead battery. WRONG. Turns out, this car hadnt been started or driven since......... i wanna say 1992, probably. The engine was ruined, the gas was varnished, the brakes needed replaced, the transmission needed resealed. Turns out I had fallen victim to Michael P. Sleeth of Oreana, IL. He and his wife are well known eBay scammers. They've ripped off a lot of people. So anyway, after having my new car towed to the shop and trying to make it run, once it was discovered that the lifters (and likely anything else that was spring loaded) had collapsed, i told the mechanic (a friend of mine) to stop, and asked if I could just keep the car there until I could address everything in force. So, there it sat for a full year.
sludge from the oil pan. the oil pan had holes in it from rust - rust from the inside. the impeller from the oil pump had rusted to the oil pick-up.
where my new $7000 paper weight sat for a year through wind, rain, sun, and snow. car covers are absolutely useless outside.
Meanwhile, I did sue the guy, and win, for what its worth [nothing]. actually, I do have a lien on the guy's property for what thats worth [probably nothing].
So, a year later, as promised, I was ready to get down to business. As I would later discover, it was a time of turmoil at my trusted shop. My buddy was no longer the foreman, and the owner who I also know as a friend was mostly MIA, leaving my project at the mercy of somebody who thought it should go on the back burner becuase of the slightly under standard hourly rate that I had negotiated with the owner. So, basically, thousands of dollars in new parts showed up at there door in an instant, and it took from February until the middle of August for my car to be ready to take home. SIX MONTHS! And, it left their shop with a major vacuum leak - at the intake runners (lower part) of all places. The car left their shop with excellent power and throttle response, but very insuficient vaccum, almost no brakes, and an engine that wanted to power through the brakes and idle at 40 miles per hour. And the idle quality was poor - something I specifically tried to avoid by choosing the ZZ4/FB 385 cam. They kept telling me "its that big-*** cam" to which I would say, "its a ZZ4 cam, its like 208/221, its not very big" to which they would say, "ehhhhh, it's kinda big."
Luckily, one day, me and my buddy Guy were running a scan tool on the car and he took a can of carb cleaner and started spraying it around the engine "uh, you've got a vacuum leak."
I could only hope that it was at the runners and not at the lower intake. Which, FINALLY, a stroke of good luck, it was the runners, not the lower intake. I had to call Jim at AS&M for new gaskets, which were on back order. And when they came there were only four of the six required gaskets..."oops." But once I fixed that issue, now I have something that is really resembling the Ultra 1989 Formula 350 that I have dreamed of for so long. It seems that all of those driveability issues were attributed to that vacuum leak.
AS&M Runners, Edelbrock Vortec Intake, Fast Burn Vortec Heads, ZZ4 Cam, Forged Conn Rods, Fluidampr, Dyno Don Headers, ORYP, Hooker Cat Back with Monza Tips (the Hooker Exhaust Tips were TRASH), other cool stuff.
Now that I've got this thing on the road, I've been getting re-aquainted with some of those things that are great and things that undeniably suck about a Third Gen. this has been a long post, and I need to get to work, so the Love/Hate list will have to come later.
Thanks for reading.
In 1999, i pulled the trigger on a blue 1996 Z28 Camaro. I had sort of pined for a 4th Gen since I first saw them in '93. Then after having my '87 'hotrod' soundly beaten by a couple, that made them seem even more appealing. So, i found a used '96 with 40K on the clock for some 14K. This was my first time buying a car from a dealership. It was my third car. I bought a 1991 Cavalier Z24 with a 3.1, for my wife before she ever had a lisence. It had a salvage title. So did my 87 Firebird. anyway, I would never admit it to myself, but I think that Z24 might have been faster than my 87. I traded in the Cavalier as a down payment on the Camaro. Driving my Camaro, I felt as though I finally had a 'real deal' sports car. I did apply the lessons learned from the 87 Firebird project to the 4th gen Camaro, when it comes to excesses and neglections to avoid. I did in fact learn a lesson or two on the Camaro. I finished the Camaro (for the most part) a couple of years ago. But by then, I was already kind of sick of the car. The hyper-sensitivity of OBD II, and extreme difficulty in working on the LT1 were factors. Also, the fact that reports were in, and one could not help but feel a certain sense of inferiority with the presense of the Gen 3 Small Blocks, aka: LSX's. Another factor is that the looks of these plastic cars became passe too soon. Even when parked beside my 87 Bird which i would later trade in for $2500 for a 2000 Chevy Cavalier for my wife and be glad to be rid of it - even when parked next to that, the Camaro's looks seemed a little dowdy. After owning it for 12 years, in the end, my Camaro was a fast, full bolt on car that dynoed aprox. 300 RWHP and 326 RWTQ. And I am proud to say that looks wise, I acheived everything that was good about the looks of 4th gen back when they were the hottest things on the road. One lesson learned: lowering an already low car leads to some PITA accessibility and driveability issues.
The Camaro was sold a couple months ago, and was just loaded up onto the transport truck last night. For $6500, the buyer got one hell of a deal. There were no regretfull goodbyes watching the car being hauled away, as the logistics of the situation didnt allow for it. Funny how my first car, a 3rd gen was replaced by a 4th gen, which was in turn replaced by a 3rd Gen, the 89 Formula which I now own.
In the meantime, other cars have come and gone. A couple that still have, and have no plans to get rid of are my 67 Pontiac Firebird, bought in 1999, and my 89 Mustang LX 5.0, bought in 2009. Gone are my 72 Nova project that never got off the ground, my 68 Mustang project that also never got off the ground, and my first attempt at an 89 Firebird project, which also never saw the light of day.
Now to my current 1989 Formula.
"Its never gonna come easy, when youre talkin' about a third gen"
I had had my Black 89 project since 2003 and it was now 2010. I had it transported (along with my Nova project) from El Paso, TX to Presidio, TX back to El Paso, and then to Washington State. I pulled the non running (barely running) motor and tranny out for a paint job that didnt go thru in Presidio, TX. Sammy, you blew it. After buying hundreds of dollars in new parts (trim and weather stripping, ect) they hadnt done a thing to the Formula 350. And all my new parts were getting buried under piles of junk at this not very tidy shop. So i repoed the car. Then I moved to Washington.
I knew that while I would often dream of finally having the car finished that this car needed ALOT of work and ALOT of money. I also knew that 1989 was the year I liked best, and Formula 350 was the trim i liked best. so, i would often paruse eBay to see what was out there as far as Formula 350's - especially 89s and preferably in black. Then in February 2010, I came across something of interest. A Maui Blue (Medium Blue Metalic) Hardtop 89 Formula 350 with only < 30K on the odometer. And nobody seemed to be bidding on it. So I emailed this guy, all too eager to give this guy my money, and it turned out he only was asking for a very reasonable 7500 which I was able to talk him down to 7K - a very reasonable price for an 89 Formula 350 with such low mileage and by his own discription was in perfect running condition, having been pampered for its whole life. I figured with my good credit, I could get a 7000 dollar loan, no problem. As it turned out though, the banks were real ***** about lending out the money that we tax payers bailed them out with so that they could continue to lend money. I had to put up the title of my truck as collateral. Then, once i gave this guy the money, he became very impossible to communicate with. He never answered his phone and would only communicate via email. I also had a fairly bad experience with the transport company which took more than a month to get the car to me. And then the real fun began. I had already had to pay an addition 200 bucks to the transporters because they couldnt get the car to start - which was a suprise to me that i was certainly hoping was just a really, really dead battery. WRONG. Turns out, this car hadnt been started or driven since......... i wanna say 1992, probably. The engine was ruined, the gas was varnished, the brakes needed replaced, the transmission needed resealed. Turns out I had fallen victim to Michael P. Sleeth of Oreana, IL. He and his wife are well known eBay scammers. They've ripped off a lot of people. So anyway, after having my new car towed to the shop and trying to make it run, once it was discovered that the lifters (and likely anything else that was spring loaded) had collapsed, i told the mechanic (a friend of mine) to stop, and asked if I could just keep the car there until I could address everything in force. So, there it sat for a full year.
sludge from the oil pan. the oil pan had holes in it from rust - rust from the inside. the impeller from the oil pump had rusted to the oil pick-up.
where my new $7000 paper weight sat for a year through wind, rain, sun, and snow. car covers are absolutely useless outside.
Meanwhile, I did sue the guy, and win, for what its worth [nothing]. actually, I do have a lien on the guy's property for what thats worth [probably nothing].
So, a year later, as promised, I was ready to get down to business. As I would later discover, it was a time of turmoil at my trusted shop. My buddy was no longer the foreman, and the owner who I also know as a friend was mostly MIA, leaving my project at the mercy of somebody who thought it should go on the back burner becuase of the slightly under standard hourly rate that I had negotiated with the owner. So, basically, thousands of dollars in new parts showed up at there door in an instant, and it took from February until the middle of August for my car to be ready to take home. SIX MONTHS! And, it left their shop with a major vacuum leak - at the intake runners (lower part) of all places. The car left their shop with excellent power and throttle response, but very insuficient vaccum, almost no brakes, and an engine that wanted to power through the brakes and idle at 40 miles per hour. And the idle quality was poor - something I specifically tried to avoid by choosing the ZZ4/FB 385 cam. They kept telling me "its that big-*** cam" to which I would say, "its a ZZ4 cam, its like 208/221, its not very big" to which they would say, "ehhhhh, it's kinda big."
Luckily, one day, me and my buddy Guy were running a scan tool on the car and he took a can of carb cleaner and started spraying it around the engine "uh, you've got a vacuum leak."
I could only hope that it was at the runners and not at the lower intake. Which, FINALLY, a stroke of good luck, it was the runners, not the lower intake. I had to call Jim at AS&M for new gaskets, which were on back order. And when they came there were only four of the six required gaskets..."oops." But once I fixed that issue, now I have something that is really resembling the Ultra 1989 Formula 350 that I have dreamed of for so long. It seems that all of those driveability issues were attributed to that vacuum leak.
AS&M Runners, Edelbrock Vortec Intake, Fast Burn Vortec Heads, ZZ4 Cam, Forged Conn Rods, Fluidampr, Dyno Don Headers, ORYP, Hooker Cat Back with Monza Tips (the Hooker Exhaust Tips were TRASH), other cool stuff.
Now that I've got this thing on the road, I've been getting re-aquainted with some of those things that are great and things that undeniably suck about a Third Gen. this has been a long post, and I need to get to work, so the Love/Hate list will have to come later.
Thanks for reading.
12-01-2011, 03:59 AM
#2
COTM Editor (Retired)
Thread Starter
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
I Love the Power Buldge Hood. Totally sleek looking on a totally sleek looking car. I dont think that the look of this hood ever looked bad or ever got old. Conversly, the double-decker WS6 hoods on the 98 and up TAs, seem pretty over-the-top to me at this point, although they seemed pretty bad-*** a decade ago.
I HAAAAAATE the electric motor assist on the hatchback. If I try to open it too soon, the motor pulls it back down. If I wait a split second too long, the motor pulls it back down. that is B.S. I just hope i never get my fingers caught in there when its going down.
I love the Formula Deep Dish Hi-Tech (or whatever they're called) wheels because they look perfect on a Formula. But I hate them because they dont allow for any easy brake upgrades, and leave you stuck with 16" tire sizes, unlike IROC wheels for example, where you can buy (crappy-looking) knock-offs in 17" and larger sizes.
I hate the center console door. prone to breakage and hard to fix without breaking something else. I opened mine once, and shall not open it again.
The Aero-Wing looks great, but its made out of foam rubber. c'mon, GM! really!? I bought myself a fiberglass one for $400, plus another $200 in shipping costs, but will wait until the spring to have it painted and put on the car - another $300 or so, I suppose.
Pop-up lights. They're only pop-up lights at night. In the daytime, they're hideaway lights, baby.
I HAAAAAATE the electric motor assist on the hatchback. If I try to open it too soon, the motor pulls it back down. If I wait a split second too long, the motor pulls it back down. that is B.S. I just hope i never get my fingers caught in there when its going down.
I love the Formula Deep Dish Hi-Tech (or whatever they're called) wheels because they look perfect on a Formula. But I hate them because they dont allow for any easy brake upgrades, and leave you stuck with 16" tire sizes, unlike IROC wheels for example, where you can buy (crappy-looking) knock-offs in 17" and larger sizes.
I hate the center console door. prone to breakage and hard to fix without breaking something else. I opened mine once, and shall not open it again.
The Aero-Wing looks great, but its made out of foam rubber. c'mon, GM! really!? I bought myself a fiberglass one for $400, plus another $200 in shipping costs, but will wait until the spring to have it painted and put on the car - another $300 or so, I suppose.
Pop-up lights. They're only pop-up lights at night. In the daytime, they're hideaway lights, baby.
12-01-2011, 04:00 AM
#3
COTM Editor (Retired)
Thread Starter
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
I hate the fact that there's no good/easy CAI option. screw you too, aftermarket.
12-01-2011, 05:45 AM
#4
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Car: 1988 GTA
Engine: LB9
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
What a pain in the nuts, but at least your story has a happy ending. In hindsight, I'm sure the lesson learned is that you can buy a car long distance, but it takes a some extra diligence.
You have a nice pair sitting in your garage. A Formula 350 and an LX Mustang - the pinnicles of the performance resurgence in the 80's. I trust you park them backed in, side-by-side, so they ready to pounce at a moment's notice.
You have a nice pair sitting in your garage. A Formula 350 and an LX Mustang - the pinnicles of the performance resurgence in the 80's. I trust you park them backed in, side-by-side, so they ready to pounce at a moment's notice.
12-01-2011, 10:54 AM
#6
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Car: 99 WS6 / 00 SS / 11 CTS-V / 13 300
Engine: LS1 / LS1 / LSA / 5.7 Hemi
Transmission: 4L60E / T-56 / 6L80E / W5A80
Axle/Gears: 3.23 / 3.42 Auburn / 3.23 / 2.62
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
Sorry to hear about your issues. I sold my '91 RS sight unseen to a guy in FL, and I couldn't ask for a better transaction. Granted, he got me a Bank of America bank check and I told him EXACTLY what he was getting 
I guess that helped. Even transport went smoothly.
Glad to see some Formula love going on around here...I still might buy one, yet. I too had a Maui Blue '89, albeit mine was a 100k mile LB9 I sold back in 2002. I'd love to find another one, this time a 350 or LB9 stick. T-tops or not doesn't matter...I've really enjoyed my hardtop 86 TA more than I thought I would...its my first hardtop third gen.
I guess that helped. Even transport went smoothly.Glad to see some Formula love going on around here...I still might buy one, yet. I too had a Maui Blue '89, albeit mine was a 100k mile LB9 I sold back in 2002. I'd love to find another one, this time a 350 or LB9 stick. T-tops or not doesn't matter...I've really enjoyed my hardtop 86 TA more than I thought I would...its my first hardtop third gen.
12-01-2011, 11:32 AM
#7
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Car: 88 Formula 350
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Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
Awesome story... I too Love/Hate my Formula...
So what are some of the details of your stang?
So what are some of the details of your stang?
Trending Topics
12-01-2011, 11:40 AM
#8
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Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
I Love the Power Buldge Hood. Totally sleek looking on a totally sleek looking car. I dont think that the look of this hood ever looked bad or ever got old. Conversly, the double-decker WS6 hoods on the 98 and up TAs, seem pretty over-the-top to me at this point, although they seemed pretty bad-*** a decade ago.
I HAAAAAATE the electric motor assist on the hatchback. If I try to open it too soon, the motor pulls it back down. If I wait a split second too long, the motor pulls it back down. that is B.S. I just hope i never get my fingers caught in there when its going down.
I love the Formula Deep Dish Hi-Tech (or whatever they're called) wheels because they look perfect on a Formula. But I hate them because they dont allow for any easy brake upgrades, and leave you stuck with 16" tire sizes, unlike IROC wheels for example, where you can buy (crappy-looking) knock-offs in 17" and larger sizes.
I hate the center console door. prone to breakage and hard to fix without breaking something else. I opened mine once, and shall not open it again.
The Aero-Wing looks great, but its made out of foam rubber. c'mon, GM! really!? I bought myself a fiberglass one for $400, plus another $200 in shipping costs, but will wait until the spring to have it painted and put on the car - another $300 or so, I suppose.
Pop-up lights. They're only pop-up lights at night. In the daytime, they're hideaway lights, baby.
I HAAAAAATE the electric motor assist on the hatchback. If I try to open it too soon, the motor pulls it back down. If I wait a split second too long, the motor pulls it back down. that is B.S. I just hope i never get my fingers caught in there when its going down.
I love the Formula Deep Dish Hi-Tech (or whatever they're called) wheels because they look perfect on a Formula. But I hate them because they dont allow for any easy brake upgrades, and leave you stuck with 16" tire sizes, unlike IROC wheels for example, where you can buy (crappy-looking) knock-offs in 17" and larger sizes.
I hate the center console door. prone to breakage and hard to fix without breaking something else. I opened mine once, and shall not open it again.
The Aero-Wing looks great, but its made out of foam rubber. c'mon, GM! really!? I bought myself a fiberglass one for $400, plus another $200 in shipping costs, but will wait until the spring to have it painted and put on the car - another $300 or so, I suppose.
Pop-up lights. They're only pop-up lights at night. In the daytime, they're hideaway lights, baby.
2 yes, the hatch stuf sux but put new hatch struts on and you'll b fine. Not GMs!
3 my fav wheel also but I did switch to 96 17x9.5s with 13" BAER brakes on my black 350 TTop formula all around.
4 the door is a pain! i remove the spring, I use adhesive backed magnet and piece of steel with dub sided tape.
5 you did the right thing with the wing
6 popup lights are super cool until the rebuild..
7 wait for a SLP CAI setup. nicest around. IMO
I like your blue car. I also have a 89 Formula350 asc vert in that color..
12-01-2011, 10:12 PM
#9
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Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
Near-Future plans include an engine build along similar lines as that of the Formula that will be based on GT40X Aluminum Heads, and a mild Comp 212/218 cam and Cobra U/L Intake. Roller Rockers, ect...
Clear Headlight Lenses really cleaned up the front end of the Stang, giving it a cleaner more modern look. It aint gonna look as good as a Formula, but it is a big improvement, especially if the stock ones are kinda milky and yellow.
So far the Mustang has been pretty easy and straight forward to work on. It's a solid little car.
12-01-2011, 10:20 PM
#10
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Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
I would love to see a picture or two of your convertible Formula 350. Thats an ultra rare car. 42 built? And probably just a couple or a very few in that particular color.
12-01-2011, 10:45 PM
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Car: 1989 Camaro RS--
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Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
Very sweet looking bird! Mustang next to it just makes the stang look bad. LOL
But it is nice you have two cars that are sought after. Your story was awesome
But it is nice you have two cars that are sought after. Your story was awesome
09-18-2015, 07:09 PM
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Car: 1990 & 1991 Firebird Formula 350's
Engine: 350 ci
Transmission: T 5 & 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3:23 & 3:27
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
I Love the Power Buldge Hood. Totally sleek looking on a totally sleek looking car. I dont think that the look of this hood ever looked bad or ever got old. Conversly, the double-decker WS6 hoods on the 98 and up TAs, seem pretty over-the-top to me at this point, although they seemed pretty bad-*** a decade ago.
I HAAAAAATE the electric motor assist on the hatchback. If I try to open it too soon, the motor pulls it back down. If I wait a split second too long, the motor pulls it back down. that is B.S. I just hope i never get my fingers caught in there when its going down.
I love the Formula Deep Dish Hi-Tech (or whatever they're called) wheels because they look perfect on a Formula. But I hate them because they dont allow for any easy brake upgrades, and leave you stuck with 16" tire sizes, unlike IROC wheels for example, where you can buy (crappy-looking) knock-offs in 17" and larger sizes.
I hate the center console door. prone to breakage and hard to fix without breaking something else. I opened mine once, and shall not open it again.
The Aero-Wing looks great, but its made out of foam rubber. c'mon, GM! really!? I bought myself a fiberglass one for $400, plus another $200 in shipping costs, but will wait until the spring to have it painted and put on the car - another $300 or so, I suppose.
Pop-up lights. They're only pop-up lights at night. In the daytime, they're hideaway lights, baby.
I HAAAAAATE the electric motor assist on the hatchback. If I try to open it too soon, the motor pulls it back down. If I wait a split second too long, the motor pulls it back down. that is B.S. I just hope i never get my fingers caught in there when its going down.
I love the Formula Deep Dish Hi-Tech (or whatever they're called) wheels because they look perfect on a Formula. But I hate them because they dont allow for any easy brake upgrades, and leave you stuck with 16" tire sizes, unlike IROC wheels for example, where you can buy (crappy-looking) knock-offs in 17" and larger sizes.
I hate the center console door. prone to breakage and hard to fix without breaking something else. I opened mine once, and shall not open it again.
The Aero-Wing looks great, but its made out of foam rubber. c'mon, GM! really!? I bought myself a fiberglass one for $400, plus another $200 in shipping costs, but will wait until the spring to have it painted and put on the car - another $300 or so, I suppose.
Pop-up lights. They're only pop-up lights at night. In the daytime, they're hideaway lights, baby.
09-23-2015, 09:18 AM
#14
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
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Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
Interestingly I do not believe that any new cars actually have pop-up headlights. It seems to be gone. The Corvette C6 & C7 both have fixed lights, Lamborghini's Porsche, Ferrari all have exposed headlights. It almost seems that the pop-up headlights became extinct at exactly the same time 2004 was the last year for many cars with them.
Almost wonder if they made them illegal on new cars because of the laser, if that is indeed a problem, which would make sense.
Almost wonder if they made them illegal on new cars because of the laser, if that is indeed a problem, which would make sense.
09-23-2015, 12:08 PM
#15
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
Interestingly I do not believe that any new cars actually have pop-up headlights. It seems to be gone. The Corvette C6 & C7 both have fixed lights, Lamborghini's Porsche, Ferrari all have exposed headlights. It almost seems that the pop-up headlights became extinct at exactly the same time 2004 was the last year for many cars with them.
Almost wonder if they made them illegal on new cars because of the laser, if that is indeed a problem, which would make sense.
Almost wonder if they made them illegal on new cars because of the laser, if that is indeed a problem, which would make sense.
09-23-2015, 01:00 PM
#16
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Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
Is running into people really a big problem?
09-23-2015, 01:21 PM
#19
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Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
I'm not the worlds best driver by anymeans but....
09-23-2015, 03:36 PM
#20
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Car: 1984 RPO "Y84" Recaro T/A
Engine: HO 305ci L69
Transmission: T-5
Axle/Gears: WS6, J65, GT4: 3:73, G80: posi
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
The idea that Pop-Up headlights impede Radar and LiDAR is a myth...
Police Radar works exactly like any other kind of radar system... just like those used by boats, the NWS, and by the FAA... the send out a radio wave which hits the target and bounces back towards the Radar Gun. Its detected, and based on a preset table of reflection time calculations, it determines the speed of the target.
LiDAR is a whole different animal and is far superior to the old radar... LiDAR is basically a laser gun that has a number of fail safes built into it that prevents 99.9999% of false speed readings. Unlike Radar, LiDAR takes miliseconds to nail you and at far greater distances... Many States require front plates for 1 main reason... LiDAR... that sparkly paint they use reflects the laser and Police are trained to zero in on your front plate or rear plate, but they dont need to use your plate... most surfaces work just fine... The only caveat about the 3rd Gen Bird is its shape... a low profile makes it hard to target at longer distances, but you will surely get nailed just the same because it tells the officer if it is getting a good reading or not, so the cop just has to be patient for a minute or so, until it aquires your car... Then Bang, you are done for....
Back in the old days, we all had Radar Detectors... they worked because Radar Guns blast out waves of radiation that scatter all over the place and the detectors are designed to detect those scattered traces long before you ever see the cop waiting for you up ahead.... If it was foggy, snowing, or raining Radar wasnt very accurate... LiDAR is almost always an instantanious "Got You!", unless its absolutely pouring or snowing heavy, in which case you wouldnt be speeding unless you had a death wish. ... and when a LiDAR Detector warns you, it means you are already caught.
Police Radar works exactly like any other kind of radar system... just like those used by boats, the NWS, and by the FAA... the send out a radio wave which hits the target and bounces back towards the Radar Gun. Its detected, and based on a preset table of reflection time calculations, it determines the speed of the target.
LiDAR is a whole different animal and is far superior to the old radar... LiDAR is basically a laser gun that has a number of fail safes built into it that prevents 99.9999% of false speed readings. Unlike Radar, LiDAR takes miliseconds to nail you and at far greater distances... Many States require front plates for 1 main reason... LiDAR... that sparkly paint they use reflects the laser and Police are trained to zero in on your front plate or rear plate, but they dont need to use your plate... most surfaces work just fine... The only caveat about the 3rd Gen Bird is its shape... a low profile makes it hard to target at longer distances, but you will surely get nailed just the same because it tells the officer if it is getting a good reading or not, so the cop just has to be patient for a minute or so, until it aquires your car... Then Bang, you are done for....
Back in the old days, we all had Radar Detectors... they worked because Radar Guns blast out waves of radiation that scatter all over the place and the detectors are designed to detect those scattered traces long before you ever see the cop waiting for you up ahead.... If it was foggy, snowing, or raining Radar wasnt very accurate... LiDAR is almost always an instantanious "Got You!", unless its absolutely pouring or snowing heavy, in which case you wouldnt be speeding unless you had a death wish. ... and when a LiDAR Detector warns you, it means you are already caught.
09-23-2015, 03:53 PM
#21
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
Here is a quick result of some searching on pop-up headlights and the regs:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2...sappeared.html
"However, in part thanks to new design regulations regarding pedestrian safety, hidden headlamps have largely become a thing of the past. Headlamp concealment devices are still legal, and regulations for manufacturing them can be found under the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s Standard No. 108. (Here’s one sensible restriction: “Whenever any malfunction occurs in a component that controls or conducts power for the actuation of the concealment device, each closed headlamp concealment device shall be capable of being fully opened by a means not requiring the use of any tools. Thereafter, the headlamp concealment device must remain fully opened until intentionally closed.”)
What’s changed in the last decade have been European design laws requiring the front end of cars to be more readily deformable—a move intended to protect pedestrians in case of a crash. (Section 7.2.3.3 of this 2004 report [PDF] presented to the European Commission has more on the changes required.) It is difficult to create hidden headlights that comply with these laws, and the high costs of doing so aren’t worth it to most manufacturers. Although the EU rulings don’t govern cars in the United States, auto manufacturers operate globally, so the diminished global desire for hidden headlamps has affected our bumpers too."
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2...sappeared.html
"However, in part thanks to new design regulations regarding pedestrian safety, hidden headlamps have largely become a thing of the past. Headlamp concealment devices are still legal, and regulations for manufacturing them can be found under the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s Standard No. 108. (Here’s one sensible restriction: “Whenever any malfunction occurs in a component that controls or conducts power for the actuation of the concealment device, each closed headlamp concealment device shall be capable of being fully opened by a means not requiring the use of any tools. Thereafter, the headlamp concealment device must remain fully opened until intentionally closed.”)
What’s changed in the last decade have been European design laws requiring the front end of cars to be more readily deformable—a move intended to protect pedestrians in case of a crash. (Section 7.2.3.3 of this 2004 report [PDF] presented to the European Commission has more on the changes required.) It is difficult to create hidden headlights that comply with these laws, and the high costs of doing so aren’t worth it to most manufacturers. Although the EU rulings don’t govern cars in the United States, auto manufacturers operate globally, so the diminished global desire for hidden headlamps has affected our bumpers too."
09-24-2015, 08:34 AM
#22
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Posts: 14,235
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118 Posts
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
Nothing like Europe telling the US what it can and cannot do... I thought we cut that cord with King George in 1776. I understand the fact that they have laws governing morons that either A) drive on the sidewalk, or morons that B) walk in the middle of the road. I am waiting for airbags to be on the outside of cars to deploy to save that person that is about to be hit.
I really like new cars, but I hate working on them. My 87 was complicated enough but I have a 2006 Buick Rendezvous that would just stop running, and then it would fire back up in a few min. IT turned out that there was a bad connection in the fuse box going to the fuel pump... I discovered this AFTER I replaced the fuel pump without a fix. I got it back together NOW my fuel gauge is at Empty, and I have an EVAP code... It is like chasing greased miniature pigs on speed.
I really like new cars, but I hate working on them. My 87 was complicated enough but I have a 2006 Buick Rendezvous that would just stop running, and then it would fire back up in a few min. IT turned out that there was a bad connection in the fuse box going to the fuel pump... I discovered this AFTER I replaced the fuel pump without a fix. I got it back together NOW my fuel gauge is at Empty, and I have an EVAP code... It is like chasing greased miniature pigs on speed.
Last edited by okfoz; 09-24-2015 at 08:38 AM.
09-24-2015, 08:18 PM
#23
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Car: 1984 RPO "Y84" Recaro T/A
Engine: HO 305ci L69
Transmission: T-5
Axle/Gears: WS6, J65, GT4: 3:73, G80: posi
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
Straying more off topic... but I hear ya Okfoz, we traded in our '07 Trailblazer (4.2L) with about 100K last year. I had just started dating my Wife right after she bought it new...did 2 oil changes on it and said F this... oil in armpit is not "fun" (oil filter is a PITA). Working on it was pure misery, but I sure loved that thing... handled better than any SUV GM has ever made. In '12, it had developed an intermittent problem that would trigger the traction control light, maybe 20-30 feet after startup... it would never record any fault code, nor readily replicate itself for the GM Techs or my mechanic... once you shut it off, it cleared itself... With all the electrical & safety stuff crammed into todays vehicles, I convinced my Wife on leasing any future vehicles "we" (meaning she) get... the result was a well optioned 2015 GMC Acadia. All those electronics have a "shelf life" & the longer you own it, the less it is worth and the more stuff will fail. Leasing is almost a no brainer these days... you completely avoid all the issues of buying a vehicle and losing a lot of what you paid at trade-in time, you get lower payments, no headaches/always covered w/ warranty, take care of it for 3 years and trade it in with less than 36K mileage for equity toward the next lease.
That said, my own vehicle is a '92 Ext Cab/Stepside/350 K1500 Z71... Its a love/hate affair, but really... I can put $10K into it and still be ahead vs buying the new version of it for $55K and getting waaaay less out of it over time.... most of the '99-up vehicles wont be around in 15 years necause the technology will have changed drastically, while the better examples of old OBDI "Atari-run" vehicles will be viable still. Ive been looking for another DD thats more "Car Seat friendly" & better on gas than my truck (keeping the truck & my Recaro T/A). Wife says get a newer FWD, I say its tough to beat a 305/307 G Body or B Body from the OBDI years... parts are still damn cheap, they dont require a PHD in Electronics, and they knock out gas mileage similar to todays similar-sized V6 front drivers... and RWD with a full perimeter frame just feels right to me... new cars are impressive, but owning a car/truck that you can work on with the same tools you've used for the last 20+ years makes life a lot more enjoyable.
That said, my own vehicle is a '92 Ext Cab/Stepside/350 K1500 Z71... Its a love/hate affair, but really... I can put $10K into it and still be ahead vs buying the new version of it for $55K and getting waaaay less out of it over time.... most of the '99-up vehicles wont be around in 15 years necause the technology will have changed drastically, while the better examples of old OBDI "Atari-run" vehicles will be viable still. Ive been looking for another DD thats more "Car Seat friendly" & better on gas than my truck (keeping the truck & my Recaro T/A). Wife says get a newer FWD, I say its tough to beat a 305/307 G Body or B Body from the OBDI years... parts are still damn cheap, they dont require a PHD in Electronics, and they knock out gas mileage similar to todays similar-sized V6 front drivers... and RWD with a full perimeter frame just feels right to me... new cars are impressive, but owning a car/truck that you can work on with the same tools you've used for the last 20+ years makes life a lot more enjoyable.
Last edited by Brother Al; 09-24-2015 at 08:24 PM.
09-25-2015, 09:47 AM
#24
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Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: I Love/Hate My 89 Formula (A History of My 89 Firebird)
What do you mean "wait for an SLP CAI?" They stopped making those. Do you have information that they are going to make those again?
I would love to see a picture or two of your convertible Formula 350. Thats an ultra rare car. 42 built? And probably just a couple or a very few in that particular color.
I would love to see a picture or two of your convertible Formula 350. Thats an ultra rare car. 42 built? And probably just a couple or a very few in that particular color.
I doubt they would make them again but what I ment was, wait for 1 to pop up forsale.
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