1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
07-04-2013, 11:34 AM
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
10 psi is within spec, however the spec says 10-12 lbs between the TBIs, not at the filter.
07-04-2013, 06:37 PM
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07-04-2013, 11:59 PM
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Hmmm, never thought of that. I should see if I have heat. Anyway, new t-stat is now on my list.
07-05-2013, 08:05 AM
#157
Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Charlie I know what you are saying about the fuel pressure. I didn't understand the necessity of reading pressure between the throttle bodies either. When my pressure was low I took the pressure at the filter. It was obviously low so I think the pressure should be the same in both places. There is some sort of compensator in the first throttle body but I am not sure how it affects pressure.
07-05-2013, 10:19 AM
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Charlie I know what you are saying about the fuel pressure. I didn't understand the necessity of reading pressure between the throttle bodies either. When my pressure was low I took the pressure at the filter. It was obviously low so I think the pressure should be the same in both places. There is some sort of compensator in the first throttle body but I am not sure how it affects pressure.
07-05-2013, 02:08 PM
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
I would think the reason you have to check between the throttle bodies is because you need to make sure that enough pressure is getting to the second throttle body after the fuel enters and then exits the first throttle body. I haven't had one apart, but I imagine there might be something that could restrict flow from the first to the second throttle body.
GM even had suppliers make a special fuel pressure gauge that goes in between the throttle bodies to check this. You remove the center fuel line between the TBIs at each TBI and this tool has two lines that thread back into each TBI . I was able to purchase this tool from a friend of mine that worked at a dealersip back in the early to mid 80's. This tool makes checking the pressure between each TBI quite simple.
Once again, I can't say what can happen to lower fuel pressure between each TBI, but I do know GM took it serious enough to have an expensive special tool to check it that way and I doubt that this requirement to test is arbitrary or not necessary.
I haven't compared the pressure at the fuel filter with the pressure between the TBIs to say if mine shows a difference.
I guess comparing both would be the best approach.
Either way, if the fuel pump is original, I would be surprised if it was pumping up to snuff. A new TPI pump will eliminate that part from the equation.
GM even had suppliers make a special fuel pressure gauge that goes in between the throttle bodies to check this. You remove the center fuel line between the TBIs at each TBI and this tool has two lines that thread back into each TBI . I was able to purchase this tool from a friend of mine that worked at a dealersip back in the early to mid 80's. This tool makes checking the pressure between each TBI quite simple.
Once again, I can't say what can happen to lower fuel pressure between each TBI, but I do know GM took it serious enough to have an expensive special tool to check it that way and I doubt that this requirement to test is arbitrary or not necessary.
I haven't compared the pressure at the fuel filter with the pressure between the TBIs to say if mine shows a difference.
I guess comparing both would be the best approach.
Either way, if the fuel pump is original, I would be surprised if it was pumping up to snuff. A new TPI pump will eliminate that part from the equation.
07-05-2013, 04:51 PM
#161
Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
I would think the reason you have to check between the throttle bodies is because you need to make sure that enough pressure is getting to the second throttle body after the fuel enters and then exits the first throttle body. I haven't had one apart, but I imagine there might be something that could restrict flow from the first to the second throttle body.
GM even had suppliers make a special fuel pressure gauge that goes in between the throttle bodies to check this. You remove the center fuel line between the TBIs at each TBI and this tool has two lines that thread back into each TBI . I was able to purchase this tool from a friend of mine that worked at a dealersip back in the early to mid 80's. This tool makes checking the pressure between each TBI quite simple.
Once again, I can't say what can happen to lower fuel pressure between each TBI, but I do know GM took it serious enough to have an expensive special tool to check it that way and I doubt that this requirement to test is arbitrary or not necessary.
I haven't compared the pressure at the fuel filter with the pressure between the TBIs to say if mine shows a difference.
I guess comparing both would be the best approach.
Either way, if the fuel pump is original, I would be surprised if it was pumping up to snuff. A new TPI pump will eliminate that part from the equation.
GM even had suppliers make a special fuel pressure gauge that goes in between the throttle bodies to check this. You remove the center fuel line between the TBIs at each TBI and this tool has two lines that thread back into each TBI . I was able to purchase this tool from a friend of mine that worked at a dealersip back in the early to mid 80's. This tool makes checking the pressure between each TBI quite simple.
Once again, I can't say what can happen to lower fuel pressure between each TBI, but I do know GM took it serious enough to have an expensive special tool to check it that way and I doubt that this requirement to test is arbitrary or not necessary.
I haven't compared the pressure at the fuel filter with the pressure between the TBIs to say if mine shows a difference.
I guess comparing both would be the best approach.
Either way, if the fuel pump is original, I would be surprised if it was pumping up to snuff. A new TPI pump will eliminate that part from the equation.
07-05-2013, 10:16 PM
#165
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Once I can, I will certainly take some pics and try to get part number and manufacturer.
My long term plan was to get a 3 gauge a - pillar and some how hook up a fuel pressure gauge with an isolator, a vacuum gauge and a trans temp gauge. Probably go with Autometer.
Since fuel pressure and vacuum are so important for the crossfire I thought having real time info would be the best. And after how much I spent on my 700R4 I want to know how that baby is doing always.
Plus I think I am getting spoiled with my 2012 Durango and the ability to check so many different gauges through the information center, I feel left behind when I drive the TA!
07-06-2013, 12:07 PM
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
For all of the curious minds. I've always assumed that the t-stat in this car was a 160* unit, based on my temp gauge readings, or even as suggested here, perhaps I didn't even have one. So I picked up a 180*t-stat from NAPA.
And this is what I pulled out of the car:
Yup, 195*
Which makes me wonder? Was this thermostat bad? Is my temp gauge bad?
Just buzzing around the block, and fully warmed up, my temp gauge reads even lower than the sub 160* readings it had with the 195* stat.
Not sure if it's my imagination, but the motor feels "crisper" now, revs more willingly, etc. I'll take it out for a longer drive later....
And this is what I pulled out of the car:
Yup, 195*
Which makes me wonder? Was this thermostat bad? Is my temp gauge bad?
Just buzzing around the block, and fully warmed up, my temp gauge reads even lower than the sub 160* readings it had with the 195* stat.
Not sure if it's my imagination, but the motor feels "crisper" now, revs more willingly, etc. I'll take it out for a longer drive later....
07-06-2013, 12:54 PM
#168
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Went for a longer drive. Definitely feels better. That "miss" that both Jeremy and myself felt seems to be gone. Revs much more cleanly.
Wonder what cascade of altered sensor readings the old t-stat might have caused?
Wonder what cascade of altered sensor readings the old t-stat might have caused?
07-06-2013, 05:50 PM
#171
Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
For all of the curious minds. I've always assumed that the t-stat in this car was a 160* unit, based on my temp gauge readings, or even as suggested here, perhaps I didn't even have one. So I picked up a 180*t-stat from NAPA.
And this is what I pulled out of the car:
Yup, 195*
Which makes me wonder? Was this thermostat bad? Is my temp gauge bad?
Just buzzing around the block, and fully warmed up, my temp gauge reads even lower than the sub 160* readings it had with the 195* stat.
Not sure if it's my imagination, but the motor feels "crisper" now, revs more willingly, etc. I'll take it out for a longer drive later....
And this is what I pulled out of the car:
Yup, 195*
Which makes me wonder? Was this thermostat bad? Is my temp gauge bad?
Just buzzing around the block, and fully warmed up, my temp gauge reads even lower than the sub 160* readings it had with the 195* stat.
Not sure if it's my imagination, but the motor feels "crisper" now, revs more willingly, etc. I'll take it out for a longer drive later....
07-07-2013, 05:32 AM
#173
Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
What temperature is it reading?
A 180 degree thermostat should hover between 200 & 210 when warmed up on the stock temp gauge . I highly recommend you upgrade the prom to get the most out of it. Or even better get a EBL flash computer .
A 180 degree thermostat should hover between 200 & 210 when warmed up on the stock temp gauge . I highly recommend you upgrade the prom to get the most out of it. Or even better get a EBL flash computer .
07-07-2013, 06:38 AM
#174
Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Charlie I am hoping to finish the car soon and start a thread with some pics. It has taken too long to get her done. I have to finish some cosmetic things and finish putting the interior back together.
Glad your car is running better. Is it still running rich or did that problem go away also?
Kitt that is the original 305 that I cleaned up. It has never been rebuilt. The valve covers are an old B&M set I bought from Summit back in the 90's. I had them powdercoated to match the air cleaner.
Glad your car is running better. Is it still running rich or did that problem go away also?
Kitt that is the original 305 that I cleaned up. It has never been rebuilt. The valve covers are an old B&M set I bought from Summit back in the 90's. I had them powdercoated to match the air cleaner.
07-07-2013, 07:25 AM
#175
Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Charlie, does the engine pull linearly through 1st gear now or does it have that slight surge it had?
07-07-2013, 07:53 AM
#176
Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Stock temp gages are nearly never right, and nearly never read the same from car to car. The stock gage is merely a suggestion as to what the coolant temp might be and is only accurate to +/- 40* in my experience.
Charlie, does the engine pull linearly through 1st gear now or does it have that slight surge it had?
Charlie, does the engine pull linearly through 1st gear now or does it have that slight surge it had?
07-07-2013, 10:20 AM
#177
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Approximately 150* with the old t-stat and approx 110* with the new. According to the gauge, that is.
07-07-2013, 10:23 AM
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Charlie I am hoping to finish the car soon and start a thread with some pics. It has taken too long to get her done. I have to finish some cosmetic things and finish putting the interior back together.
Glad your car is running better. Is it still running rich or did that problem go away also?
Glad your car is running better. Is it still running rich or did that problem go away also?
I gave it a good throttle blip yesterday in the garage and the floor seemed clean.
07-07-2013, 10:24 AM
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Stock temp gages are nearly never right, and nearly never read the same from car to car. The stock gage is merely a suggestion as to what the coolant temp might be and is only accurate to +/- 40* in my experience.
Charlie, does the engine pull linearly through 1st gear now or does it have that slight surge it had?
Charlie, does the engine pull linearly through 1st gear now or does it have that slight surge it had?
My theory? Forget what the gauge says. If I assume that the the current 110* reading is actually ~180*, then I can extrapolate that the previous less than 160* reading was actually over 220*. Enough for the ECM to start retarding timing?
Last edited by chazman; 07-07-2013 at 10:46 AM.
07-08-2013, 10:44 PM
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Here you go. This is with the new 180* thermostat.
Cold:
Warm:
With the 195* stat it would run right at the second line, or an indicated 160-ish degrees. I thought it was running cool according to the temp gauge, buy apparently it was running pretty hot. I'd bet the t-stat was stuck closed. Throttle response is now crisper and spewing soot on the garage floor is now diminished.
Cold:
Warm:
With the 195* stat it would run right at the second line, or an indicated 160-ish degrees. I thought it was running cool according to the temp gauge, buy apparently it was running pretty hot. I'd bet the t-stat was stuck closed. Throttle response is now crisper and spewing soot on the garage floor is now diminished.
Last edited by chazman; 07-08-2013 at 10:51 PM.
07-09-2013, 01:57 AM
#183
Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Here you go. This is with the new 180* thermostat.
Cold:
Warm:
With the 195* stat it would run right at the second line, or an indicated 160-ish degrees. I thought it was running cool according to the temp gauge, buy apparently it was running pretty hot. I'd bet the t-stat was stuck closed. Throttle response is now crisper and spewing soot on the garage floor is now diminished.
Cold:
Warm:
With the 195* stat it would run right at the second line, or an indicated 160-ish degrees. I thought it was running cool according to the temp gauge, buy apparently it was running pretty hot. I'd bet the t-stat was stuck closed. Throttle response is now crisper and spewing soot on the garage floor is now diminished.
04-02-2016, 02:38 PM
#190
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Congrats Charlie!
Good luck with your next purchase, too...sooner or later, hopefully I'll be back in the third gen game, too
Good luck with your next purchase, too...sooner or later, hopefully I'll be back in the third gen game, too
04-02-2016, 03:30 PM
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
Thanks guys.
Last night before I went to bed I checked and the bidding was really going up where it looked like it was going to sell regardless. Then this morning I got a PM from Germany. I worked out the details with his exporter by 10 AM as I was pulling into work.
He wanted to wire the money to me, but I wanted a bank/cashier's check instead. Not a done deal until the money is in the bank.
BTW, I'm working on my next purchase as we speak.
04-02-2016, 03:45 PM
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
That's the spirit!
That's one thing I love about third gens...get bored with the one you have, and there's always another one you can grab that's different enough to make it worthwhile. I thought I'd keep my grey IROC forever...5 years in, I was getting a little bored with it and needed the $$$ to buy a house anyway. Next time around, rather than a grey automatic IROC, its all about finding a red/blue 5 speed Trans Am
That's one thing I love about third gens...get bored with the one you have, and there's always another one you can grab that's different enough to make it worthwhile. I thought I'd keep my grey IROC forever...5 years in, I was getting a little bored with it and needed the $$$ to buy a house anyway. Next time around, rather than a grey automatic IROC, its all about finding a red/blue 5 speed Trans Am
04-02-2016, 03:52 PM
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
That's the spirit!
That's one thing I love about third gens...get bored with the one you have, and there's always another one you can grab that's different enough to make it worthwhile. I thought I'd keep my grey IROC forever...5 years in, I was getting a little bored with it and needed the $$$ to buy a house anyway. Next time around, rather than a grey automatic IROC, its all about finding a red/blue 5 speed Trans Am
That's one thing I love about third gens...get bored with the one you have, and there's always another one you can grab that's different enough to make it worthwhile. I thought I'd keep my grey IROC forever...5 years in, I was getting a little bored with it and needed the $$$ to buy a house anyway. Next time around, rather than a grey automatic IROC, its all about finding a red/blue 5 speed Trans Am
Well that's the spirit right back at you!
Get another 3rd gen already, Jason. We miss BS-ing with you around here!
04-03-2016, 10:16 AM
#197
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
I'm sure you know this this Charlie, but, I sold a car years ago to a guy oversees. He wanted to wire me the money with additional to cover the shipping costs. A transport truck was to show up at my place, pick up the car and I pay him the extra amount he sent me to cover the shipping costs. I worked with the guy for days until I found out it was a scam. The same thing just happened to a friend of mine who's selling a 2002 SS. Somebody from oversees said they will buy the car, sight unseen, and pay extra for shipping. I told him about my deal and he started playing back with the guy until he disappeared. Just be careful.
04-03-2016, 10:33 AM
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Re: 1983 Z28 Camaro. Crossfire/T5 combo. Fixing GM's "mistake"
I'm sure you know this this Charlie, but, I sold a car years ago to a guy oversees. He wanted to wire me the money with additional to cover the shipping costs. A transport truck was to show up at my place, pick up the car and I pay him the extra amount he sent me to cover the shipping costs. I worked with the guy for days until I found out it was a scam. The same thing just happened to a friend of mine who's selling a 2002 SS. Somebody from oversees said they will buy the car, sight unseen, and pay extra for shipping. I told him about my deal and he started playing back with the guy until he disappeared. Just be careful.
Yeah, I hear you. Nothing leaves my garage until I get the cashier's check and it clears.
After that, shipping is all on them.
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