When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
Better that you find out now. You installed your rear main seal BACKWARDS!
The "lips" face the block. It should go like this.
And offsetting it slightly as in the picture helps prevent all the parting lines from being in alignment, reducing your chances for a leak.
A small dab of Permatex on the ends helps also.
You don't have to remove the crank to change it. "ROLL" it out and do the same to re-install.
Started out the day fixing the oil seal that I had reversed. That's all back together and good now. gave me a chance to clean up the clear Permatex and use black anyways, so that was all well and good.
Decided to tear down the Quadrajet and get it soaking. Everything was going well, finally getting to use my set of CCC tools, until I got to the very end and the throttle body. The throttle had been sticking a bit, I used to have to nudge the throttle sometimes for it to settle back down into low idle and I could tell that there was a little play there. I also knew that there are bushing kits to fix them up, so when the book said "Don't take the throttle apart, it's serviced as a unit" I just kept tearing it down. Things started going wrong when I tried to take out the screws that hold the throttle plates to the shaft and they all started snapping off. I figured oh well, I can get them out after or replace the throttle shaft. Then when the throttle shaft wouldn't come out easily, I grabbed a punch and started tapping it out with a hammer. Then I missed the punch and hit the guide and it split right off the throttle body. #$%^.
It's going to kill me if I am not able to refurbish and put the original carb back on this. I'm soaking the Float Bowl and Air Horn sections and I need to find a throttle body section of an E4ME somewhere either from this model of Quadrajet, or hopefully that part does not change from model to model. I can always compare.
Is there anywhere that actually lists the specific model differences on these carbs? This is an E4ME 17083205. If someone has parts for one I would be interested/in your debt!!
Is there anywhere that actually lists the specific model differences on these carbs? This is an E4ME 17083205. If someone has parts for one I would be interested/in your debt!!
I believe that nearly all of these QJET carbs for 82-87 f-bodies are all the same. Maybe some very minor differences, and I am guessing that those differences would be in the main body or air horn, not the baseplate.
I still have my old E4ME from my 84 TransAm and it has been rebuilt and recalibrated. However, since the rebuild, one side of the idle circuit would always get "clogged". I am convinced that a chip got left in one of the passages that got drilled in the main body for the mods and would constantly end up moving into just the right place to screw up the idle. I would then take it apart and clean all the passages, and it worked again..... until the next time. I had that carb apart so many times that the threads were starting to strip out in the main body.
So the good news for you is that my baseplate is probably the only good part left of this carb. The idle screws are uncapped and drilled larger, the shafts have new bushings, the throttle plates open ALL the way (some are limited) and I believe it has been surfaced so it should be flat.
If you are interested, I will check it out tonight and dig the paperwork out. Hopefully the receipt lists the modifications and calibrations. Let me know.
Last edited by NoEmissions84TA; 07-07-2018 at 07:13 PM.
I am interested. I read up a bit and basically they are numbered like this...
170 = newer gen Quadrajet
83 = year
2 = 4 barrel
0 = Chevy (Make)
5 = Manual (odds are manual/evens are automatics)
It looks like on the manual carbs they basically cut off the kick down connector on the linkage.
Only other difference I see besides Make linkage changes is the vacuum? connector on the rear being screw in on some and hose fitting on others. Mine has a screw in fitting.
Let it me know what you feel is fair, I would be happy to make use of it.
OK, I will dig it out tonight to make sure it will suit your needs.
Any other parts you might need from this carb?
Since I am breaking it down, now is the time to ask.
OK, I will dig it out tonight to make sure it will suit your needs.
Any other parts you might need from this carb?
Since I am breaking it down, now is the time to ask.
I am planning on doing a pretty thorough rebuild, so if you just replaced the mixture control solenoid and tps I would be at least interested in those. Otherwise I need to see what I’m going to get in a rebuild kit, but the rest of my carb is pretty solid.
I am planning on doing a pretty thorough rebuild, so if you just replaced the mixture control solenoid and tps I would be at least interested in those. Otherwise I need to see what I’m going to get in a rebuild kit, but the rest of my carb is pretty solid.
Took the crank, pistons, cam down to the machine shop yesterday. Pistons are fine. Crank is at the bottom of spec, but wore evenly. He told me to put in .001 undersized bearings main and rod and it will be good to go. Cam would have been alright if I had kept the valve train meticulously, but I was planning on replacement so I chucked everything in a box. I had him order up an exact replacement and some Delphi lifters. Ordered up a set of Clevite P series Tri-metal main and rod bearings last night, along with rings. Will be time to start engine assembly when that gets here.
Good choice with the Delphi lifters. That is IF you actually get genuine Delphis. The market has been flooded with offshore knockoff Delphi lifters, even found in GM boxes (unscrupulous people buy the GMs and return them with the knockoff ones in the GM boxes). Ask me how I know? Here is a link to know if you got the genuine GMs or the knockoffs: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ml#post6225755
Take 1 lifter apart and measure the thickness of the pushrod seat/cup.
If it's a genuine GM Delphi, it will measure .241" thick.
If it measures .299", then it is the knockoff offshore junk and will not pump any oil to your rocker arms and wipe out your new cam during the break-in.
That is a beautiful car, I'll have to read those threads in more detail. I was just at a local car show last weekend. No third-gen F-Body cars. Plenty of 60's, some 70's. no 80's. It's a crime.
Thanks for the info on the rebuild kits. I was wondering if there were quality rebuild kits vs cheap stuff. I assumed there were and I was just going to have to sort it all out. It's amazing all of the research you end up doing on every part when you really get into something like this. I appreciate any insight, especially first hand experience.
I will check out the lifters like you are suggesting to learn something at least. I'm pretty sure my guy at the machine shop knows what he is getting but it sounds like they can pop up anywhere.
Are you planning to use a stock camshaft? I believe sofakingdom can guide you on a somewhat bigger camshaft selection and carb modifications, all appearing stock but adding a good HP increase. And still working with the CCC system.
If you are aware of the ZZ3/4 350 HO conversion for these cars, that would be a good guide to follow. I have a link if you need it.
So I took the E4ME apart and it is as I described above (#54). The baseplate has had the idle screws are uncapped and drilled larger, the shafts have new bushings (still tight), the throttle plates open ALL the way, and it has been surfaced and it is still flat. And all the threads are good. I will include the used gaskets (for reference), the TPS, MCS assembly, float, and the other small parts.
Since they are not stock (and might screw up your calibration), I will keep the primary MCS jets and needles, the accelerator pump, and needle & seat.
All you should need to reassemble your carb is 2 gaskets, new needle & seat, ethanol compatible accelerator pump, and some epoxy to seal the 6 wells in the main body.
Are you planning to use a stock camshaft? I believe sofakingdom can guide you on a somewhat bigger camshaft selection and carb modifications, all appearing stock but adding a good HP increase. And still working with the CCC system.
If you are aware of the ZZ3/4 350 HO conversion for these cars, that would be a good guide to follow. I have a link if you need it.
So I took the E4ME apart and it is as I described above (#54). The baseplate has had the idle screws are uncapped and drilled larger, the shafts have new bushings (still tight), the throttle plates open ALL the way, and it has been surfaced and it is still flat. And all the threads are good. I will include the used gaskets (for reference), the TPS, MCS assembly, float, and the other small parts.
Since they are not stock (and might screw up your calibration), I will keep the primary MCS jets and needles, the accelerator pump, and needle & seat.
All you should need to reassemble your carb is 2 gaskets, new needle & seat, ethanol compatible accelerator pump, and some epoxy to seal the 6 wells in the main body.
I already purchased a new original equipment cam and have it installed. I thought about going the 350 HO route (Or just installing everything on a 350 block) when I started and originality won out. I'm kind of a restoration nut. I'm going to go as close to stock as I can. Heck, I spent a half hour cleaning, polishing and painting a clip yesterday that goes on the oil pan.
I found out that my heads are beat to hell today. My machinist told me as much so reconditioning them is going to cost me quite a bit. I guess I knew that may be the case. My stepdad was the original owner of this car and I knew he drove it hard, so I have been surprised up to this point with the shape of everything. I chalked it up to the 80k miles and a car that could easily take it. I guess I found the wear point.
Sounds like the carb parts will work really well. One thing you said makes me curious though, what is the deal with the epoxy? I'm also wondering from what Sofakingdom said whether I am going to need to send it all in to be re-plated.
Anyways, let me know what you think is fair and we can work something out. I really appreciate having a community around that knows so much about these cars.
You're a restoration nut, you're considering having the carb re-plated, and you painted the engine orange?
Yeah I know. It wasn’t an easy decision. I guess I feel they did that not because Black was a great color for an engine, but because they didn’t want oil leaks to be as noticeable. It bothers me and I like it at the same time. I like it more than it bothers me though, so that won out.
The GM "corporate blue" would have been a more or less acceptable substitute. Only 1 year off.
Or, my personal favorite; the Mercruiser metallic charcoal color. That's what I usually used back in the day. Still looks kinda black and stockish, but has enough ... color ... to it, that the leeeeeks can't hide.
That old red-orange though, I never did like that. No matter what, it turns gross. Especially when it's all over the freeze plugs and everything else, like it was dipped or something. Only looks good, to me, when it's done before any assembly has occurred, and all the other small parts contrast with it.
Used to have a competitor who painted his motors purple. The most garish, godawful purple you can imagine. Something like a shade of toenail polish you'd find on the girls standing around on street corners late at night in the parts of town you don't ordinarily go to. (or, maybe the ones you do, w/e) Thing was, it was his trademark; he wouldn't honor the warranty if you painted over it. [puuuuuuuukkkkkkkke]
The GM "corporate blue" would have been a more or less acceptable substitute. Only 1 year off.
Or, my personal favorite; the Mercruiser metallic charcoal color. That's what I usually used back in the day. Still looks kinda black and stockish, but has enough ... color ... to it, that the leeeeeks can't hide.
That old red-orange though, I never did like that. No matter what, it turns gross. Especially when it's all over the freeze plugs and everything else, like it was dipped or something. Only looks good, to me, when it's done before any assembly has occurred, and all the other small parts contrast with it.
Used to have a competitor who painted his motors purple. The most garish, godawful purple you can imagine. Something like a shade of toenail polish you'd find on the girls standing around on street corners late at night in the parts of town you don't ordinarily go to. (or, maybe the ones you do, w/e) Thing was, it was his trademark; he wouldn't honor the warranty if you painted over it. [puuuuuuuukkkkkkkke]
I hope I don’t regret it. Blue would have looked nice too, and the black/charcoal color that I am painting the pan and covers with would have looked nice. I wanted everything to contrast with it like you are saying. I wanted two colors on the engine. I specifically told the shop to leave the freeze plugs out but they are so used to doing them they forgot and didn’t charge me for them.
The purple motor story story is great, I saw you mention that in some other post and I laughed my **** off.
I will post some pics of the carb parts tonight and PM a price to you.
Great picture, good info. That will make it easy.
I had quite the experience today. I have been taking a cupped wire brush to a lot of parts to clean them up. When I came in the house the other day I noticed to my surprise that a piece of wire was sticking out of my chest. I laughed that off. Fast forward to today and my wife notices that I have a cut on my side and it looks infected. Well, turns out that I had about an inch and a half wire in my side. Buried well, not sticking out or lined up with the hole that it went in. Not laughing that one off. Took a razor, 15 minutes and something to bite down on. No fun.
Unfortunately, and not too long ago, that happened to me also.
Here are those pics. I cleaned it for you, but it was hardly dirty to begin with.
Just oil the shafts before assembly. The same goes for any other movable parts in the main body and airhorn.
Last edited by NoEmissions84TA; 07-10-2018 at 04:08 AM.
Following.. What made you go with the HV oil pump over the trusty factory part?
From everything I’ve read, the factory pump was high volume, and I figured that of all things I might as well replace the oil pump with it opened up. Sounds like they are supposed to be pretty bulletproof?
the models without the fitting just tee'd into one of the other vacuum lines for the, whatever it was, that used that fitting as a source.
I think I know which fitting you’re talking about. On the front yes? Mine is a single fitting into a T. I have seen that on the back some have a screw in fitting, mine does, and others are a vacuum fitting.
Well, since this thread is a place for me to admit my mistakes as well as successes, it would help me to get this off my chest. I put my harmonic balancer on with a hammer. There, I said it. Call it temporary insanity. The funny thing is that my engine builder says that it’s fine, that’s how they went on back in the old days, and I can’t hurt the thrust bearing like that. Then my uncle who was a GM master technician says tear it apart and re-do the main bearings. Lesson learned. Personally I won’t feel good about this unless I do, I’ve already ordered new bearings, new damper, another set of gaskets and a complete puller/installer kit. (I just had the puller). Need the peace of mind. Anyone else ever go through this that is willing to admit it? I was more worried about destroying the crank threads at the time.
I put them on with a heavy hammer and a block of wood or a deadblow hammer. 0 issues. Don't Hulk smash it on and it'll be fine.
Now if you just used a hammer on the balancer, you can distort the center hole and the crank pulley won't fit well anymore.
As Tony mentioned, I can see destroying the crank snout if you hit it directly with a steel hammer, but the main bearings should be just fine. I have no idea how they would be damaged by applying sharp thrust load to the crank.
I’m just going to use the tool from now on. Either way, 416s are back from the machine shop! There were bad valves, couple bad studs,. New springs, seals, etc. They are looking good!
It must be shot. Normally to remove those you fill the cavity with grease and then find something round and solid that just fits inside of the pilot bearing. Give it a whack with a hammer and it hydraulically presses it out.
I ordered one up last night. I really hope the new one doesn’t slide right in, haha.
I’m seriously considering re-using my push rods and rocker arms pending a good inspection for wear. My engine builder told me that the original equipment is really quality stuff and the aftermarket stuff not, unless you spend near 200.00 for push rods for example. I think he’s right. I see reviews for say, the 50.00 Comp Cams push rods and people are breaking off the heads and complaining that they are not hardened.
I ordered one up last night. I really hope the new one doesn’t slide right in, haha..
Min not as familiar with sbc but when I did this for my 396/muncie I found there were some poor quality versions out there - some too loose some too tight. Hope you get a good one. Just don’t force the assembly when put it all together.
I ordered one up last night. I really hope the new one doesn’t slide right in, haha.
I’m seriously considering re-using my push rods and rocker arms pending a good inspection for wear. My engine builder told me that the original equipment is really quality stuff and the aftermarket stuff not, unless you spend near 200.00 for push rods for example. I think he’s right. I see reviews for say, the 50.00 Comp Cams push rods and people are breaking off the heads and complaining that they are not hardened.
That's true. Avoid pushrods with pressed-in ends. I will never use them again. Buy 1 piece pushrods. If your combo does not deviate far from stock, then YES, you can re-use the stock parts if in good condition.
I looked at the stock ones today. They all look bent to me, not going to use them. I will find some one piece replacements. The exciting thing is that I got a blast cabinet today. Can’t wait to see if I can make that aluminum intake look new.
Nice! You MUST have a good dust collector or BIG shop vac connected, or within 5 seconds you will not be able to see anything. Keep the pressure as low as you can to get the job done and blast at a 45 degree angle. If your air supply has any moisture, it will be a nightmare. Good luck.
You can check your pushrods for straightness by rolling them across a flat piece of glass. If they click as they roll, they are bent.
Blast cabinets are the greatest thing ever invented. Dust was not bad even with the sealed cabinet, I did order a cyclone kit to hook up to the exhaust and the shop vac. I bet I can mod the air line to work better also, seems to pulse, but I really can’t complain all that much, did a great job.
Nice! You MUST have a good dust collector or BIG shop vac connected, or within 5 seconds you will not be able to see anything. Keep the pressure as low as you can to get the job done and blast at a 45 degree angle. If your air supply has any moisture, it will be a nightmare. Good luck.
You can check your pushrods for straightness by rolling them across a flat piece of glass. If they click as they roll, they are bent.
Pushrods do click when on glass. I put a light behind them and watched them roll. Pretty sure they are damaged from the same valve floating that damaged the springs/valve keepers. Now just need to find a good replacement, lots of cheap ones abound but also don’t believe that I need to break the bank for this stuff.
EGR was blocked in the intake solid. Never knew. Had to use a punch to get through it.
If you still need to have the EGR valve in place for emissions, you can put a ball bearing in the vacuum line to disable it, yet everything is still there and looks functional. Otherwise use a blockoff plate.
TrickFlow makes a great pushrod and only about $100. for a set. 1 piece construction also.
The intake cleaned up nicely. But you should degrease your parts first, otherwise your blast media gets contaminated quickly.
If you still need to have the EGR valve in place for emissions, you can put a ball bearing in the vacuum line to disable it, yet everything is still there and looks functional. Otherwise use a blockoff plate.
TrickFlow makes a great pushrod and only about $100. for a set. 1 piece construction also.
The intake cleaned up nicely. But you should degrease your parts first, otherwise your blast media gets contaminated quickly.
Thanks, I’ll look into the pushrods. I have been planning to get all of this emissions crap working right again, but I may be persuaded not to if it looks original and doesn’t hurt anything.
I degreased the heck out of that intake before it hit the cabinet. But I really wanted the raw before and after. Most of that black is paint. Made a lot of progress today with all of the brackets and small parts that need cleaning.
Working on on the exhaust manifolds now. Have not been looking forward to them. Stripped them down. Murdered the air tubes on both. They were not coming off. Removed the heat riser, can weld it back on after the manifolds are blasted.
Let my my son go at one of them in the blast cabinet, haha, he had a good time.
Is there an exploded parts diagram of an L69 somewhere? Want to make sure that I don’t miss any small clips, plug wire holders, etc as I assemble. Service manual does have parts of it, but I swear I have seen an complete exploded diagram somewhere.
07-06-2018, 10:09 PM
